• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:28
CEST 16:28
KST 23:28
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202537RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16
Community News
BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams4Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension4
StarCraft 2
General
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread RSL Season 1 - Final Week The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
ASL20 Preliminary Maps BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET The Casual Games of the Week Thread
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Games Industry And ATVI Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 778 users

Warlock, a fatal support?

Forum Index > Dota 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
1 2 Next All
Kaffebullen
Profile Joined April 2012
Sweden11 Posts
July 20 2013 18:16 GMT
#1
Hello, my nickname is Bulle. I have been playing DotA on and off for ~6 years. I used to have all the time in the world to spend on dota, these days though my time is limited, except for vacations (Did not get any work this summer). So with nothing else to do I will continue to banter about underrated heroes.

Warlock

[image loading]

Introduction
This evening will be about Warlock. Written with my opinions and team vs team in focus. Warlocks playstyle does not differ much compared to pubgames though. If you wanna read up on Warlock I recommend going to dota2.gamepedia.com, they have close to all of the gushy details about all heroes. Warlocks role is hard support, he does not need any general items to be effective through the whole game. If he do get any gold they should go into Mekanism, Pipe or some other support item. So what's his pros and cons as a hard support?


Pros
  • Great initiation.
  • Great counter initiation.
  • Great follow up.
  • High strength gain for a support.
  • No real need for items.
  • Long range and fast attack animation.
  • Fatal bounds damage scales into lategame.
  • Makes taking a tower after a won teamfight easy.
  • Got a heal.

Cons
  • Low armor.
  • Lack of stun for laning phase.
  • Long cooldown on ultimate.
  • Easily ganked midgame. (as any hard support)


How does he fit the meta?
Warlock both fits in some ways. He can basically fill the same position as a Magnus, he can delay a enemy team from pushing in while you have one/two heroes splitpushing. If the enemy team is forcing a push, his ultimate plus fatal bonds is close to the perfect beginning of a teamfight. On the other hand if the enemy is split pushing Warlock will have a hard time being effective during multiple sequential "plays".

Where should he be played?
He's a good babysitter vs a harass based offlaner. with his range and early DoT he should easily with the help from another support suppress the one single enemy. When Warlock gets his ultimate up the team can force teamfights by pushing, if won also includes a free tower. Warlock is also a great way to stop the enemy team from doing the same.

Why is it that he isn't played then?
Warlock played as a hard support need level 6 as soon as possible, he lack that important early stun and his ultimate cooldown is long. If you Compare it to the current most played supports you will see that they have short cd stuns, good scaling to lategame and often a way to "disrupt" the enemy carry. His role in teamfights are heavy reliant on wombo-combos which are hard to consistently execute in a higher level of game and warlock is hence usually a big gamble.

What conclusions can we draw?
He's a strong midgame-lategame support, if you succeed to not rumble a lot during the whole game and it's not more than a few teamfights that decides it you win more times than not with Warlock. He is awesome in most setups late game, he either opens or counters most teamfights, hard. He can easily place himself away from the engagement with his huge cast range and with that in mind is a "safe engager".

Can he be drafted?
When both teams are going for slow, farm based game with as few teamfights as possible (Chinese vs Chinese teams) he should be seriously considered, since the earlygame hard supports such as lina and rylai does not scale well into lategame. He is one of the few heroes that are really strong as a lategame hard support.

What can make him viable?
If the metagame makes for a slower pace warlock should be a hero most team should consider. A decrease in his cd and a re-balance on his other spells as a subsequent cause could also make him fit more into the meta.

Some more shameless advertising
Please watch and subscribe to my stream. I will play as much warlock in the upcoming couple of days I can handle.

TL;DR
Warlock is a strong teamfight hero that fits the role as a hard support. He mainly fit games were both teams enjoy farming as much as possible and taking the fights as late as possible. His cast range makes him the perfect counterinitiator.

PS
Please pm any recent pro games you have seen warlock work efficiently
It's edible
Hagen0
Profile Joined June 2013
Germany765 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-20 21:12:11
July 20 2013 21:08 GMT
#2
When Warlock is picked he is pretty much always played as a solo. He is a dominant laner and benefits enormously from levels and items.

Warlock support used to be a thing back in the day. I feel that if he lacks impact in a support role compared to todays common picks. What makes him borderline viable is his ultimate which is extremely powerful but really come into its own with an Aghanims (and optimally a Refresher).
TheSubtleArt
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada2527 Posts
July 20 2013 21:40 GMT
#3
He's never played now, but when he was (EG and Dignitas in particular experimented with him quite a bit) it was almost always as a solo mid. You may not need items, but Warlock desperately needs experience and is pretty underwhelming as a support, especially weak before he gets 6.

Dodge arrows
Archeon
Profile Joined May 2011
3253 Posts
July 20 2013 22:02 GMT
#4
i agree to my foreposters, as a support he lacks impact on the lane. He works against very defensive lineups and isnt bad against e.g. darkseer, but he really needs levels. Fatal bonds are really nice in a one vs one mid-scenario, unless your opponent has a really aggressive pick like qop or puck. The problem is that warlock lacks their ganking capabilities and late-game-impact aside from his long cd ultimate (which is super strong, dont get me wrong).
low gravity, yes-yes!
Jetaap
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France4814 Posts
July 20 2013 22:09 GMT
#5
The main weaknesses of warlock are split push and buy back, otherwise he is an unstoppable beast for teamfights
synapse
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
China13814 Posts
July 20 2013 23:11 GMT
#6
but but but what about the 420noscopequadruplegolems?

also i remember a few teams running warlock as a support for spectre...
:)
LSB
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5171 Posts
July 20 2013 23:12 GMT
#7
I would like to see more last pick warlocks. So many times teams draft a really wombo combo lineup, and it would be cool to out wombo combo them
Once is an accident. Twice is coincidence. Three times is an enemy action. Bus Driver can never target themselves I'm sorry
Cyx.
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada806 Posts
July 20 2013 23:27 GMT
#8
On July 21 2013 08:11 synapse wrote:
but but but what about the 420noscopequadruplegolems?

also i remember a few teams running warlock as a support for spectre...

I remember dignitas picking warlock and spectre together, but they still ran him mid
FinestHour
Profile Joined August 2010
United States18466 Posts
July 20 2013 23:35 GMT
#9
fatal bonds and dispersion is one of the funniest things in dota more people should pick those two heroes together
thug life.                                                       MVP/ex-
Meerel
Profile Joined March 2012
Germany713 Posts
July 20 2013 23:39 GMT
#10
warlock is op and his ulti should be nerfed....seriously clicking on r and owning the complete team with it is just stupid
SDMF
TheSubtleArt
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada2527 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-21 00:19:14
July 21 2013 00:17 GMT
#11
On July 21 2013 08:11 synapse wrote:
but but but what about the 420noscopequadruplegolems?

also i remember a few teams running warlock as a support for spectre...

Dignitas was doing it, but Warlock was still a solo mid. Their winrate with the strat was really bad from what I remember, and Warlock's winrate overall was something like 39% in the few months he saw his popularity rise.

On July 21 2013 08:12 LSB wrote:
I would like to see more last pick warlocks. So many times teams draft a really wombo combo lineup, and it would be cool to out wombo combo them


Teamfight teams are easier countered by split pushing.
Dodge arrows
Rodberd
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Germany531 Posts
July 21 2013 07:16 GMT
#12
i played warlock quite often.
during this time i found another weakness:
shadow demon ult / diffusal blades kill his golem instantly, so against some lineups he is basicly useless. his ulti will be crippled to a AOE-stun. the cooldown is horrible than.
he also lacks aoe-spells that deal dmg fast. if yuo have to stop 2x or 3x waves bonds wont do the magic. wasting the ulti might be overkill. same when there is a brood on the map.

still i like him (if the matchup is right), and on my lvl noone ever purged my golem.
Ooooh, look at it go
Ramiz1989
Profile Joined July 2012
12124 Posts
July 21 2013 08:05 GMT
#13
On July 21 2013 09:17 TheSubtleArt wrote:
Teamfight teams are easier countered by split pushing.

Except if they push you and you have to fight or will lose...
"I've been to hell and back, and back to hell…and back. This time, I've brought Hell back with me."
LAN-f34r
Profile Joined December 2010
New Zealand2099 Posts
July 21 2013 08:44 GMT
#14
That's why you get turtle heroes like kotl to make pushing really really hard. If your split pushing is good enough, they aren't going to be able to base race you, and if they send someone back to defend the split push you can likely win a 5v4 (the splitpusher(s) can tp back).

Of course, this is an ultra-simplified theorycraft session. Real situations are more complex.
The only barrier to truth is the presumption that you already have it. It's through our pane (pain) we window (win though).
meadbert
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States681 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-21 16:58:18
July 21 2013 15:02 GMT
#15
The highest ranked warlock players on dotabuff play him as a carry. They rely on a support providing regen including a Ring of Basilius. Warlock starts with branches and maybe one Circlet. Skill. Order is Ult - Fatal Bonds - Shadow Word.
Item build is Midas - brown boots - Aghs - Refresher - Travel.

Best lane mate is Treant, but Omniknight works too.

Here is dotabuff's highest ranked player playing Warlock:
http://dotabuff.com/players/91852132/matches?hero=warlock&game_mode=&match_type=real

Looks like Boots of Travel is actually pretty rare, but Midas+Brown->Aghs->Refresher is common and he almost always lanes with his buddy playing as Treant.
Gotuso
Profile Joined May 2011
Netherlands733 Posts
July 21 2013 21:23 GMT
#16
I've seen Warlock played as a support, but personally I can never resist going Aghanim's + Refresher. Especially if your not on very high mmr the Chaos Offering can just win fights by itself with a Fatal Bonds.

What I'm wondering is if you guys skill Upheavel; do you put 1 point in, all 4 or just straight stats? I usually put in 1 point, but after that I go stats to survive a stun -> burst situation so I can drop my ulti before I die.
RuskiPanda
Profile Joined December 2011
United States2906 Posts
July 22 2013 00:47 GMT
#17
On July 22 2013 06:23 Gotuso wrote:
I've seen Warlock played as a support, but personally I can never resist going Aghanim's + Refresher. Especially if your not on very high mmr the Chaos Offering can just win fights by itself with a Fatal Bonds.

What I'm wondering is if you guys skill Upheavel; do you put 1 point in, all 4 or just straight stats? I usually put in 1 point, but after that I go stats to survive a stun -> burst situation so I can drop my ulti before I die.


I've never had a situation where I wanted to cast it honestly because it just makes you a sitting duck if you're losing the teamfight and if you're winning it will likely catch 1-2 heroes at most (and not for long espc with just 1 point).
KurtistheTurtle
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States1966 Posts
July 22 2013 03:15 GMT
#18
@upheaval: Warlock is pretty much the perfect character to take/defend rosh with (every single one of his spells is good around there)
“Reject your sense of injury and the injury itself disappears."
Belisarius
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia6230 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-22 07:48:55
July 22 2013 07:35 GMT
#19
On July 22 2013 09:47 RuskiPanda wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2013 06:23 Gotuso wrote:
I've seen Warlock played as a support, but personally I can never resist going Aghanim's + Refresher. Especially if your not on very high mmr the Chaos Offering can just win fights by itself with a Fatal Bonds.

What I'm wondering is if you guys skill Upheavel; do you put 1 point in, all 4 or just straight stats? I usually put in 1 point, but after that I go stats to survive a stun -> burst situation so I can drop my ulti before I die.


I've never had a situation where I wanted to cast it honestly because it just makes you a sitting duck if you're losing the teamfight and if you're winning it will likely catch 1-2 heroes at most (and not for long espc with just 1 point).


Upheaval is terrifying...

It creates situations where your enemies are forced to do things they really don't want to do. Unfortunately, yes, that thing is "beat the crap out of the warlock", but... honestly... so what?

At the time when you cast it, your enemies don't even want to attack you, because you've already dropped your combo. If you force them to throw a spell or a carry at the burned-out support, then that's dps and stuns that didn't hit your teammates. If they don't, their ability to move into and out of the initiation zone is vastly reduced, and if they have kitable carries they're in serious trouble.

Also, at the point you cast it, the teamfight is nowhere near over. I don't know where that idea comes from. Even if you're counterinitating, bonds>rock>upheaval can be done before anyone on either team has even died.

In my opinion, it's way too powerful a skill to skip. You don't take it first, of course, but - provided I can live long enough to get my combo off in the first place - I'd take it over stats as often as possible.
nojok
Profile Joined May 2011
France15845 Posts
July 22 2013 08:01 GMT
#20
Golems! You have to include this in the guide.

Personally, his biggest weakness to me is that he's damn boring except for his shiny ulti. Also if i remember correctly when I saw him in pro games the ennemy team tends to have 2 diffusal and insta wipe the golem.

"Back then teams that won were credited, now it's called throw. I think it's sad." - Kuroky - Flap Flap Wings!
1 2 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Esports World Cup
10:00
2025 - Day 2
Reynor vs MaruLIVE!
herO vs Cure
Serral vs Classic
EWC_Arena10783
ComeBackTV 2461
TaKeTV 584
Hui .551
3DClanTV 366
EnkiAlexander 238
Rex235
mcanning164
CranKy Ducklings153
Reynor138
UpATreeSC124
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
EWC_Arena10783
Hui .551
Rex 235
mcanning 164
Reynor 138
UpATreeSC 124
StarCraft: Brood War
Bisu 4021
Barracks 1987
Flash 1822
BeSt 1529
Jaedong 1472
EffOrt 1051
Mini 562
Stork 504
ggaemo 401
Snow 333
[ Show more ]
Soma 269
ZerO 263
Soulkey 254
GuemChi 250
ToSsGirL 193
Rush 121
Hyun 113
Dewaltoss 64
soO 54
TY 52
Sea.KH 46
Sacsri 37
scan(afreeca) 25
Terrorterran 12
Movie 12
Bale 10
Yoon 10
ivOry 8
Britney 0
Dota 2
syndereN332
420jenkins299
XcaliburYe270
Counter-Strike
sgares545
edward58
flusha30
Super Smash Bros
Westballz32
Other Games
singsing2053
hiko1318
B2W.Neo1082
crisheroes476
Fuzer 162
ArmadaUGS75
KnowMe53
QueenE44
ZerO(Twitch)15
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 3
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH269
• Adnapsc2 1
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 1019
• WagamamaTV507
League of Legends
• Nemesis3883
• TFBlade707
Upcoming Events
Esports World Cup
19h 32m
TBD vs Zoun
TBD vs SHIN
TBD vs ShoWTimE
TBD vs Rogue
Esports World Cup
1d 20h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
CSO Cup
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
[ Show More ]
Online Event
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.