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On March 20 2015 09:01 trinxified wrote:
What's the big deal about knowing every player's MMR even before game starts?
So what?
It makes it so that if you legitimately are 400-500 points above everyone else (which does occasionally happen if you are a 5k+ player queing at odd times or if there just aren't enough players on) you'll at least get a core position and not be forced to support.
Major complaint was that the highest rated player would end up on a support in upper level games and then your 4.5k player is facing off against a 5.5k=>6k player mid, and just straight feed. This change hardly affects lower level games, it just makes higher level games much more bearable for those who are above a certain threshold on the MMR scale.
And before flame wars start, just so you know, I'm not saying the support position isn't important, I'm just saying that it is much easier to control the tempo and pace of the game as either the 2 position or an aggressive 1 position hero, and there's alot more leeway for error in those positions also unlike the 3/4/5 positions where you basically have to play textbook perfect offlane/support if you want to carry your team from those positions.
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On March 20 2015 09:03 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2015 09:01 trinxified wrote:
What's the big deal about knowing every player's MMR even before game starts?
So what? It makes it so that if you legitimately are 400-500 points above everyone else (which does occasionally happen if you are a 5k+ player queing at odd times or if there just aren't enough players on) you'll at least get a core position and not be forced to support. Major complaint was that the highest rated player would end up on a support in upper level games and then your 4.5k player is facing off against a 5.5k=>6k player mid, and just straight feed. This change hardly affects lower level games, it just makes higher level games much more bearable for those who are above a certain threshold on the MMR scale.
Highest MMR playing support seems better actually since supports tend to win games.
I feel that playing a good support is harder than playing a good core. That's just me though, my 4.5k MMR talking.
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Honestly, what I think Valve is aiming for here is that to just show everyone BEFORE the game starts that their MMR system isn't as bad as people think, and that it actually works.
Often you have people raging and flaming at each other at the beginning/during a game where they feel like they are better than everyone else. This should solve that?
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On March 20 2015 09:05 trinxified wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2015 09:03 superstartran wrote:On March 20 2015 09:01 trinxified wrote:
What's the big deal about knowing every player's MMR even before game starts?
So what? It makes it so that if you legitimately are 400-500 points above everyone else (which does occasionally happen if you are a 5k+ player queing at odd times or if there just aren't enough players on) you'll at least get a core position and not be forced to support. Major complaint was that the highest rated player would end up on a support in upper level games and then your 4.5k player is facing off against a 5.5k=>6k player mid, and just straight feed. This change hardly affects lower level games, it just makes higher level games much more bearable for those who are above a certain threshold on the MMR scale. Highest MMR playing support seems better actually since supports tend to win games. I feel that playing a good support is harder than playing a good core. That's just me though, my 4.5k MMR talking.
1) No. In uncoordinated environments it's very important that your 2 position and 1 position players are good players. Why? Because mistakes will be made on both sides, people will not take advantage of certain things, and the game almost always gets dragged out into mid to late game phases even in upper level pub games. Can ask any professional player. You want your best players on core positions. That's not necessarily true in high level games (such as professional/competitive play/etc.) because everyone is at a level where they can capitalize on mistakes and know how to play their roles at an efficient level. It's similar to American Football or Soccer where skill position players absolutely dominate at the lower levels, but the other positions on the field become much more important as you go higher up.
2) Winning as a support is incredibly difficult because you can play textbook perfect support, but if your cores are unable to capitalize it doesn't matter, where as playing as a 2 position hero, you don't necessarily need your supports to do much more than ward and occasionally CC when necessary, as you will have the gold and exp in order to create openings and control the tempo of the game. You can shut down and zone the enemy offlane all you want, deny runes, and CC them to death in fights, etc. but those are simply smaller things in the grand scheme of DotA. Over time you will win games, but it's so mind numbingly frustrating to grind games like that, because you need such a large sample of games to climb, while the 1 and 2 positions immediately demonstrate skill gaps because of how much gold, exp, and flexibility is funneled into those heroes (aka you have more resources to work with to take advantage of).
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Good change. Does it show the highest based on solo only or party if grouped (or the max of the two)?
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just show the highest mmr of what you're queuing
aka if ur 6k solo but 4k party and u join a game as party it will show 4k if you are the highest mmr player
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Are there any negatives to this? I really don't think players barely over the average will flame much. People are assholes, yeah, but not that stupid.
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On March 20 2015 09:05 trinxified wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2015 09:03 superstartran wrote:On March 20 2015 09:01 trinxified wrote:
What's the big deal about knowing every player's MMR even before game starts?
So what? It makes it so that if you legitimately are 400-500 points above everyone else (which does occasionally happen if you are a 5k+ player queing at odd times or if there just aren't enough players on) you'll at least get a core position and not be forced to support. Major complaint was that the highest rated player would end up on a support in upper level games and then your 4.5k player is facing off against a 5.5k=>6k player mid, and just straight feed. This change hardly affects lower level games, it just makes higher level games much more bearable for those who are above a certain threshold on the MMR scale. Highest MMR playing support seems better actually since supports tend to win games. I feel that playing a good support is harder than playing a good core. That's just me though, my 4.5k MMR talking.
Supports win games, but if you get mechanically dumpsters in lane because your 4.5K and you're up against someone who is 1000 MMR higher than you, its hard for that support to do their thing. At the really high levels, the spread can be that big.
It makes no difference to me, because its like 50 points at my MMR. They might want to turn if off under 4K.
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On March 20 2015 09:05 trinxified wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2015 09:03 superstartran wrote:On March 20 2015 09:01 trinxified wrote:
What's the big deal about knowing every player's MMR even before game starts?
So what? It makes it so that if you legitimately are 400-500 points above everyone else (which does occasionally happen if you are a 5k+ player queing at odd times or if there just aren't enough players on) you'll at least get a core position and not be forced to support. Major complaint was that the highest rated player would end up on a support in upper level games and then your 4.5k player is facing off against a 5.5k=>6k player mid, and just straight feed. This change hardly affects lower level games, it just makes higher level games much more bearable for those who are above a certain threshold on the MMR scale. Highest MMR playing support seems better actually since supports tend to win games. I feel that playing a good support is harder than playing a good core. That's just me though, my 4.5k MMR talking.
saying supports win games in a pub setting is delusional.
support relies on coordination, and coordination is impossibly hard with a stranger.
the conclusion is thus support sucks in pub. it is still important, but compared to a mid position it pales.
pub is all about if your tempo controller can independently create space and smash the opposite team
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France7248 Posts
It's weird cause if you play in a party of 2, it will not show your solo mmr
so let's say, you got 7k solo, and 4k party, and play in a party of 2, it will not say that you have 7k mmr and will show someone with 6.3k as the highest
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United States12270 Posts
On March 20 2015 09:48 Yhamm wrote:
It's weird cause if you play in a party of 2, it will not show your solo mmr
so let's say, you got 7k solo, and 4k party, and play in a party of 2, it will not say that you have 7k mmr and will show someone with 6.3k as the highest
Why is that weird? That's exactly how it should work because the 4k is what it's using to match you with other players/stacks.
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I like the feature. Can see Valve making it visible to teammates only in the future.
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France7248 Posts
On March 20 2015 10:00 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2015 09:48 Yhamm wrote:
It's weird cause if you play in a party of 2, it will not show your solo mmr
so let's say, you got 7k solo, and 4k party, and play in a party of 2, it will not say that you have 7k mmr and will show someone with 6.3k as the highest Why is that weird? That's exactly how it should work because the 4k is what it's using to match you with other players/stacks.
it's weird in the sense that showing the highest mmr has absolutely no value
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On March 20 2015 10:01 Economist wrote:
I like the feature. Can see Valve making it visible to teammates only in the future.
I am sure they will adjust it. Though it wouldn't be terrible to know "Fuck we need to shut that guy down".
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On March 20 2015 10:04 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2015 10:01 Economist wrote:
I like the feature. Can see Valve making it visible to teammates only in the future. I am sure they will adjust it. Though it wouldn't be terrible to know "Fuck we need to shut that guy down".
It'd be nice if people stopped flipping tables over this, especially when there's less than 400 MMR difference between average and the best.
Alas, fuck logic. I suppose the smarter players will just start counter-camping or just babysitting at some point.
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On March 20 2015 10:13 makmeatt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2015 10:04 Plansix wrote:On March 20 2015 10:01 Economist wrote:
I like the feature. Can see Valve making it visible to teammates only in the future. I am sure they will adjust it. Though it wouldn't be terrible to know "Fuck we need to shut that guy down". It'd be nice if people stopped flipping tables over this, especially when there's less than 400 MMR difference between average and the best. Alas, fuck logic. I suppose the smarter players will just start counter-camping or just babysitting at some point.
It depends on your MMR. If you get up if the 5K area and higher and the amount gets bigger.
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some of the reactions for now
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United States12270 Posts
On March 20 2015 10:04 Yhamm wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2015 10:00 Excalibur_Z wrote:On March 20 2015 09:48 Yhamm wrote:
It's weird cause if you play in a party of 2, it will not show your solo mmr
so let's say, you got 7k solo, and 4k party, and play in a party of 2, it will not say that you have 7k mmr and will show someone with 6.3k as the highest Why is that weird? That's exactly how it should work because the 4k is what it's using to match you with other players/stacks. it's weird in the sense that showing the highest mmr has absolutely no value
It does have value. Some people have a large variance across their party and solo MMRs, as you have mentioned. If matchmaking sees "5 4ks vs 5 4ks" but you have 7k solo MMR, that's not considered since you're playing as part of a stack. If that skill difference causes you to dominate and win the game, then your party MMR will gradually increase as you win more games. The thing about party MMR is it's going to match you pretty well overall as long as you're playing with the same friends, and just as you can win games for them by being a 7k solo mid, they can lose games for you by being a 1k feeder support, but in the end you're around 4k together.
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On March 20 2015 10:04 Yhamm wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2015 10:00 Excalibur_Z wrote:On March 20 2015 09:48 Yhamm wrote:
It's weird cause if you play in a party of 2, it will not show your solo mmr
so let's say, you got 7k solo, and 4k party, and play in a party of 2, it will not say that you have 7k mmr and will show someone with 6.3k as the highest Why is that weird? That's exactly how it should work because the 4k is what it's using to match you with other players/stacks. it's weird in the sense that showing the highest mmr has absolutely no value
and why is that? if you're 4k party it really means when you are playing party, you are a 4k player and will play worse than the some 6k player.
I tend to troll hardcore in my party mmr, it is 800 points lower than my solo and it should be treated as such
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France7248 Posts
because I feel like the party mmr when the party is 2-3 people doesn't mean much
but whatever, it's not important 
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EPT
