EPTOn September 02 2012 17:55 borlee wrote:
ever heard of teamspeak? i mean u can hear stuff ingame
ever heard of teamspeak? i mean u can hear stuff ingame
why would they need that when they're literally right next to each other
General Discussion - Page 939
| Forum Index > Dota 2 General |
IRC chatter should remain in IRC - http://webchat.quakenet.org/?channels=tl.dota2 Posts that relate to topics with their own thread, such as in News, Tournaments or Strategy should go in those threads. | ||
|
whatusername
Canada1181 Posts
why would they need that when they're literally right next to each other | ||
|
Forte
Australia101 Posts
On September 02 2012 16:57 yotcarter wrote: Song of the Siren + Ravage doesn't work the same way in Dota2. If you don't remove the SoS before you Ravage ; it's just a wasted Ravage. Same for Venomancer's gale & nova - you used to be able to apply them through the SoS - Dota2 has certain different mechs. But the iG vs Na`Vi games were just clear miscommunication from iG squad. Was able to read up on it. Definitely does not work the same way in DotA2 which is a huge difference (not saying it is a good thing or a bad thing). Now it isn't a BKB counter anymore. I remember seeing it in ACE matches and just being confused at how teams used it in TI2 and I now know why xD iG needs to calm down. Ego showing from Ferrari and company. Zhou, as always, is a momentum-based farmer. Didn't finish his BKB for ages in game 3 against Na`Vi, and game was lost when he did finish it. What you said about them needing to calm down is totally true. Hoping that they can get it together because iG is my favourite team They didn't do that because they fucked up, basically if they had played it properly and had naga stand to the side and just net engima, the fight would easily have been 5-0 iG, but either he forgot, was overconfident, or he failed to check the enigma's items (since going bkb first is rather rare). I asked xiao8 (the captain of LGD) about this and he thinks that Zhou just got overconfident Seems like LGD is more than prepared and won't be shaken by anything, looking forward to the match. Also awesome that you got to speak with xiao8! | ||
|
Unleashing
Denmark14978 Posts
Q: "Do you think the second game mindfucked them into the third? Because it looked like they were lost in the picking phase and you outclassed them." A: "I think so." | ||
|
Stancel
Singapore15360 Posts
On September 02 2012 17:37 flamewheel wrote: Puppey's picks. Talked to him today after the game briefly. Basically he said that Naga's Song + Tide Ravage is weak, but Naga Song + Black Hole is game-changing. Therefore, after they gave Naga away he took Enigma. When Naga pops song, Naga's team will clump. If you clump your own heroes together, enemy team has to clump more. With BKB Enigma to pop black hole, nothing can stop you. The song works in your favor. I'm tired so I don't remember if this is against DK or iG. Point is, Puppey had some damn amazing picks. Juggernaut to push while Song is still level 1 and thus has a ridiculous cooldown? Worked pretty excellently. iG needs to calm down. Ego showing from Ferrari and company. Zhou, as always, is a momentum-based farmer. Didn't finish his BKB for ages in game 3 against Na`Vi, and game was lost when he did finish it. when will the TL interviews be up? :< | ||
|
Qbek
Poland12923 Posts
| ||
|
ControlMonkey
Australia3109 Posts
| ||
|
cecek
Czech Republic18921 Posts
| ||
|
Glowbox
Netherlands330 Posts
On September 02 2012 17:55 borlee wrote: ever heard of teamspeak? i mean u can hear stuff ingame Only ingame voice is allowed, which is apparently slightly delayed. So no skype/teamspeak/mumble. | ||
|
Bash
Finland1533 Posts
| ||
|
Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On September 02 2012 21:10 Glowbox wrote: Only ingame voice is allowed, which is apparently slightly delayed. So no skype/teamspeak/mumble. .5 second delay on ingame voip. Dendi has an interview where he talks about being the only person wearing headphones and why Na'vi were laughing during picks game 2. http://www.youtube.com/embed/jKhSnWsBTio (basically headphones are an aid but they make it harder to communicate) | ||
|
r.Evo
Germany14081 Posts
On September 02 2012 17:37 flamewheel wrote: Puppey's picks. Talked to him today after the game briefly. Basically he said that Naga's Song + Tide Ravage is weak, but Naga Song + Black Hole is game-changing. Therefore, after they gave Naga away he took Enigma. When Naga pops song, Naga's team will clump. If you clump your own heroes together, enemy team has to clump more. With BKB Enigma to pop black hole, nothing can stop you. The song works in your favor. I'm tired so I don't remember if this is against DK or iG. Point is, Puppey had some damn amazing picks. Juggernaut to push while Song is still level 1 and thus has a ridiculous cooldown? Worked pretty excellently. iG needs to calm down. Ego showing from Ferrari and company. Zhou, as always, is a momentum-based farmer. Didn't finish his BKB for ages in game 3 against Na`Vi, and game was lost when he did finish it. I think the gamebreaking moment was when iG picked Puck in game #2. In game #1 it didn't seem like a "Puppey draft" (no strong CC vs morphling? Shaky lanes? C'mon) Puppey is one of the most respected drafters in China from what I understand and looking at the scenario from iGs perspective must have shaken them up: The bans are Furion, Morphling, Invoker and Pudge, Lycanthrope, Leshrac. Na'Vi picks Rubick and at this point Puppey KNOWS that iG will instapick Naga and Dark Seer. In return, iG knows that a captain like Puppey doesn't do this without a plan to deal with it. The next two picks for Na'Vi are Enigma and Juggernaut. Enigma is an obvious choice (denies wombo-combo, Na'Vi loves him) the Juggernaut pick however at this point ONLY makes sense to throw your opponent off. They could have lastpicked him, a ban was incredibly unlikely. iG takes lots of reserve time at this point and goes for their Tidehunter (since BKB / Bladefury can be spammed during the sleep while the Ravage can't be he is much weaker than Enigma in combination with Naga - once again, puppey was aware of this). Na'Vi 4th picks Rhasta (they lacked CC at this point and wanted even more pushing power) and now comes the 4th pick from iG: PUCK. Out of all things they grab a hero which denies Dendi one of his heroes (after Rubick 1st pick!) and has a comparatively redundant role in his team. Interrupt blackhole? They have Tide. Initiate? Darkseer / Naga / Tide do that. Pucks ulti? Enigma can walk around in it and Black Hole if people come close. Maybe someone else can explain it to me, but I think this pick was absolutely redundant and showed that iG was completely confused at this point. That's not a "classic iG draft" anymore, it's a draft done with a shaken mindset. Lina lastpick makes sense again but the only hero she really synergizes early game with is Naga. To some extent Tide. Wherever Naga is, Lina will be. As it happened in the game Na'Vi can "simply" ignore that lane completely and walk all over the map in the other places. GAME #3. Think you're iG. You destroyed your opponent in game #1. In game #2 you got baited into picking a combination of two of the most OP heroes in the game and lost because of that bait. It's your second loss in the tournament and your impenetrable "Chinese Defense" was just crushed by a cheesy strat which was perfectly executed. Even for iG this is scary, I think that state of mind once again reflected in their picks: Na'Vi picks the same stuff while iG bans Rubick this time. Dark Seer firstpick for iG, Enigma/Lesh(AA's Lesh was amazing in all games in the international!) for Na'Vi. For their 2nd and 3rd pick while Naga is still open iG ignores her and grabs Enchantress and Tinker (?). Na'Vi bans out Rhasta (iG lacks hard CC at the moment) and LD (they still miss their carry and can now choose between Naga and Luna). iG picks Veno (??). If we look at the lineup now coincidentally this looks similar to Game #1, just with the sides inversed: iG has NO hard CC at all (which translates to AM being ungankable) while the CC Na'Vi has (Enigma/Lesh) is still enough to gank Luna. Na'Vi has stronger teamfights (Enigma/QoP/Lesh/Chen compared to Luna/Veno/DS), Na'Vi has stronger ganks (more CC & burst) and for pushing abilities it's Lesh/Enigma/Chen vs Tinker/DS/Ench/Veno. That's the only aspect where Na'Vi is a maybe a bit behind, but not majorly. Na'Vis plan is obvious: Let AM get fat (oh fun, he needs no help because no one on the iG team can gank him), shut down Luna (oh fun, she can't escape from Na'Vi ganks) and steamroll the game from there. The only other wildcard on the iG team (Tinker) was almost completely shut down early by denying the ancient stacking. Luna is completely irrelevant as long as AM stays ahead of her in items. tl;dr: Puppey #1, ggnore. | ||
|
myrmidon2537
Philippines2188 Posts
On September 02 2012 22:05 r.Evo wrote: I think the gamebreaking moment was when iG picked Puck in game #2. In game #1 it didn't seem like a "Puppey draft" (no strong CC vs morphling? Shaky lanes? C'mon) Puppey is one of the most respected drafters in China from what I understand and looking at the scenario from iGs perspective must have shaken them up: The bans are Furion, Morphling, Invoker and Pudge, Lycanthrope, Leshrac. Na'Vi picks Rubick and at this point Puppey KNOWS that iG will instapick Naga and Dark Seer. In return, iG knows that a captain like Puppey doesn't do this without a plan to deal with it. The next two picks for Na'Vi are Enigma and Juggernaut. Enigma is an obvious choice (denies wombo-combo, Na'Vi loves him) the Juggernaut pick however at this point ONLY makes sense to throw your opponent off. They could have lastpicked him, a ban was incredibly unlikely. iG takes lots of reserve time at this point and goes for their Tidehunter (since BKB / Bladefury can be spammed during the sleep while the Ravage can't be he is much weaker than Enigma in combination with Naga - once again, puppey was aware of this). Na'Vi 4th picks Rhasta (they lacked CC at this point and wanted even more pushing power) and now comes the 4th pick from iG: PUCK. Out of all things they grab a hero which denies Dendi one of his heroes (after Rubick 1st pick!) and has a comparatively redundant role in his team. Interrupt blackhole? They have Tide. Initiate? Darkseer / Naga / Tide do that. Pucks ulti? Enigma can walk around in it and Black Hole if people come close. Maybe someone else can explain it to me, but I think this pick was absolutely redundant and showed that iG was completely confused at this point. That's not a "classic iG draft" anymore, it's a draft done with a shaken mindset. Lina lastpick makes sense again but the only hero she really synergizes early game with is Naga. To some extent Tide. Wherever Naga is, Lina will be. As it happened in the game Na'Vi can "simply" ignore that lane completely and walk all over the map in the other places. GAME #3. Think you're iG. You destroyed your opponent in game #1. In game #2 you got baited into picking a combination of two of the most OP heroes in the game and lost because of that bait. It's your second loss in the tournament and your impenetrable "Chinese Defense" was just crushed by a cheesy strat which was perfectly executed. Even for iG this is scary, I think that state of mind once again reflected in their picks: Na'Vi picks the same stuff while iG bans Rubick this time. Dark Seer firstpick for iG, Enigma/Lesh(AA's Lesh was amazing in all games in the international!) for Na'Vi. For their 2nd and 3rd pick while Naga is still open iG ignores her and grabs Enchantress and Tinker (?). Na'Vi bans out Rhasta (iG lacks hard CC at the moment) and LD (they still miss their carry and can now choose between Naga and Luna). iG picks Veno (??). If we look at the lineup now coincidentally this looks similar to Game #1, just with the sides inversed: iG has NO hard CC at all (which translates to AM being ungankable) while the CC Na'Vi has (Enigma/Lesh) is still enough to gank Luna. Na'Vi has stronger teamfights (Enigma/QoP/Lesh/Chen compared to Luna/Veno/DS), Na'Vi has stronger ganks (more CC & burst) and for pushing abilities it's Lesh/Enigma/Chen vs Tinker/DS/Ench/Veno. That's the only aspect where Na'Vi is a maybe a bit behind, but not majorly. Na'Vis plan is obvious: Let AM get fat (oh fun, he needs no help because no one on the iG team can gank him), shut down Luna (oh fun, she can't escape from Na'Vi ganks) and steamroll the game from there. The only other wildcard on the iG team (Tinker) was almost completely shut down early by denying the ancient stacking. Luna is completely irrelevant as long as AM stays ahead of her in items. tl;dr: Puppey #1, ggnore. This analysis makes sense to me. I like it  | ||
|
BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
I was saying puppey is gonna make navi a comeback after groupstage because i knew the man would study the shit out of these chinese teams. I said that because if you watched sing stream you'd remember his face of defeated when he talked about how puppey completely predicted their bans/picks in one of the lan tourney (i forgot the name but his whole team flew to russian iirc and mtw didn't go albeit synderen casted the game with tobi). And puppey delivered. And navi delivered!!! You can see they get back to their form too on day1. Games were very very nice. Puppey clearly did his homework <3 | ||
|
r.Evo
Germany14081 Posts
Someone has to make a video out of what he mentioned in the interview. Game #2 Na'Vi vs iG, Minute 34. Watch at slowest speed, Dendis player perspective. OPA DENDI. =DDDD (Credits to Aixler for finding the gem, he's just too lazy to post) | ||
|
Aixler
Netherlands946 Posts
Enjoy and if you can make a short video of it :D | ||
Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
the only real way to watch the Na'vi vs iG game wipe. | ||
|
Fwizzz
Philippines4420 Posts
| ||
|
Narcind
Sweden2489 Posts
Starts at 34:55ish | ||
|
Kupon3ss
時の回廊10066 Posts
On September 02 2012 22:05 r.Evo wrote: I think the gamebreaking moment was when iG picked Puck in game #2. In game #1 it didn't seem like a "Puppey draft" (no strong CC vs morphling? Shaky lanes? C'mon) Puppey is one of the most respected drafters in China from what I understand and looking at the scenario from iGs perspective must have shaken them up: The bans are Furion, Morphling, Invoker and Pudge, Lycanthrope, Leshrac. Na'Vi picks Rubick and at this point Puppey KNOWS that iG will instapick Naga and Dark Seer. In return, iG knows that a captain like Puppey doesn't do this without a plan to deal with it. The next two picks for Na'Vi are Enigma and Juggernaut. Enigma is an obvious choice (denies wombo-combo, Na'Vi loves him) the Juggernaut pick however at this point ONLY makes sense to throw your opponent off. They could have lastpicked him, a ban was incredibly unlikely. iG takes lots of reserve time at this point and goes for their Tidehunter (since BKB / Bladefury can be spammed during the sleep while the Ravage can't be he is much weaker than Enigma in combination with Naga - once again, puppey was aware of this). Na'Vi 4th picks Rhasta (they lacked CC at this point and wanted even more pushing power) and now comes the 4th pick from iG: PUCK. Out of all things they grab a hero which denies Dendi one of his heroes (after Rubick 1st pick!) and has a comparatively redundant role in his team. Interrupt blackhole? They have Tide. Initiate? Darkseer / Naga / Tide do that. Pucks ulti? Enigma can walk around in it and Black Hole if people come close. Maybe someone else can explain it to me, but I think this pick was absolutely redundant and showed that iG was completely confused at this point. That's not a "classic iG draft" anymore, it's a draft done with a shaken mindset. Lina lastpick makes sense again but the only hero she really synergizes early game with is Naga. To some extent Tide. Wherever Naga is, Lina will be. As it happened in the game Na'Vi can "simply" ignore that lane completely and walk all over the map in the other places. GAME #3. Think you're iG. You destroyed your opponent in game #1. In game #2 you got baited into picking a combination of two of the most OP heroes in the game and lost because of that bait. It's your second loss in the tournament and your impenetrable "Chinese Defense" was just crushed by a cheesy strat which was perfectly executed. Even for iG this is scary, I think that state of mind once again reflected in their picks: Na'Vi picks the same stuff while iG bans Rubick this time. Dark Seer firstpick for iG, Enigma/Lesh(AA's Lesh was amazing in all games in the international!) for Na'Vi. For their 2nd and 3rd pick while Naga is still open iG ignores her and grabs Enchantress and Tinker (?). Na'Vi bans out Rhasta (iG lacks hard CC at the moment) and LD (they still miss their carry and can now choose between Naga and Luna). iG picks Veno (??). If we look at the lineup now coincidentally this looks similar to Game #1, just with the sides inversed: iG has NO hard CC at all (which translates to AM being ungankable) while the CC Na'Vi has (Enigma/Lesh) is still enough to gank Luna. Na'Vi has stronger teamfights (Enigma/QoP/Lesh/Chen compared to Luna/Veno/DS), Na'Vi has stronger ganks (more CC & burst) and for pushing abilities it's Lesh/Enigma/Chen vs Tinker/DS/Ench/Veno. That's the only aspect where Na'Vi is a maybe a bit behind, but not majorly. Na'Vis plan is obvious: Let AM get fat (oh fun, he needs no help because no one on the iG team can gank him), shut down Luna (oh fun, she can't escape from Na'Vi ganks) and steamroll the game from there. The only other wildcard on the iG team (Tinker) was almost completely shut down early by denying the ancient stacking. Luna is completely irrelevant as long as AM stays ahead of her in items. tl;dr: Puppey #1, ggnore. The gamebreaking moment was the moment that iG fucked up their execution and got wiped in team two, puppey's draft in game 2 was a very standard All-in that the Chinese should've know how to deal with. Puck is picked because be goes very well with ult combo lineups, as well as the fact that 430 is quite arrogant and wants to beat Dendi with his own hero and Lina was picked because her AOE on a stacked group of heroes. Game 3 was a literally a non-issue since iG was a broken team at that point (I basically left after the draft and watching them lane for a few minutes), Na'Vi could have probably picked Spirit Breaker and BloodSeeker and still won at that point after how shaken and broken psychologically iG became over their own awful play. iG has one of the weakest inter-team organizations and is rather medicore when playing from behind and the misshap (as well as LOL DOTA 2 ENGINE GG) really destroyed them | ||
|
NB
Netherlands12045 Posts
On September 02 2012 19:28 Unleashing wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnJY7F1DUeg Q: "Do you think the second game mindfucked them into the third? Because it looked like they were lost in the picking phase and you outclassed them." A: "I think so." I were chatting with corinthos after navi win. The main reason they get such good picks in game 3 is mainly bc iG got threw off the table by the Yunero pick in game 2. With the same pick order they could just still lock down Dendi heroes to QoP and counter it with NS just like game 1. Navi theoretically could rotate position to put dendi on SandKing but they dont have much practice of that since pre dreamhack so it wouldnt work either. If you study the ban pick phase well, all 3 games were done by Navi like text book except iG didnt read the yunero page (cmon, artstyle picked it for darer and he was navi captain)... But yeah, i think today navi wont be able to pull that off again. They still could do a bait on AM with morph ban and pick riki however. Something like LoH CK and Xboct riki definitely could work out if navi play their cards correctly vs LGD. | ||
| ||
