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General Discussion - Page 751

Forum Index > Dota 2 General
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IRC chatter should remain in IRC - http://webchat.quakenet.org/?channels=tl.dota2

Posts that relate to topics with their own thread, such as in News, Tournaments or Strategy should go in those threads.
PassiveAce
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States18076 Posts
July 24 2012 14:36 GMT
#15001
On July 24 2012 23:34 red_b wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 24 2012 21:28 cecek wrote:
So, seems like V1lat got his US visa declined. =//

"Vitalii Volochai ‏@v1lat

Just got mine US VISA application denied. Will try to proove that Cybersport exists next time"


primary reason not to hold TI2 in the states, honestly.

sadly I have to agree.
If the US is this hard to get into then it should probably be held in europe.
Call me Marge Simpson cuz I love you homie
Bash
Profile Joined August 2007
Finland1533 Posts
July 24 2012 15:08 GMT
#15002
Third part of this thing is up http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-07-24-the-dota-2-experience-part-three
I can't sing and I can't dance, but still I know how to clap my hands.
Kipsate
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands45349 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-24 15:16:14
July 24 2012 15:10 GMT
#15003
WTF v1lat not going to US, that makes me really really sad for the CIS community/Dota community in general.
WriterXiao8~~
PassiveAce
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States18076 Posts
July 24 2012 15:33 GMT
#15004
On July 25 2012 00:08 Bash wrote:
Third part of this thing is up http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-07-24-the-dota-2-experience-part-three

exploding disco thespian

This is the best description of ss iv ever heard.
Call me Marge Simpson cuz I love you homie
Slomo
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany7198 Posts
July 24 2012 16:40 GMT
#15005
But will he be able to cast the games back from home?
RIP DOUBLE TI OG | #18 never forget
superstartran
Profile Joined March 2010
United States4013 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-24 18:16:23
July 24 2012 18:03 GMT
#15006
On July 24 2012 21:17 eqez wrote:
I dont remember Lanaya being this stronk in original DotA



Lanaya was harder to play in DotA 1 due to a plethora of reasons. The recent switch into DotA 2 has made her like 100x easier to play than she was in DotA 1, thus making her a faceroll smasher.


You have to commit to many resources to shut down Lanaya right now, she'll probably get nerfed into uselessness again.
Attakijing
Profile Joined June 2011
United States693 Posts
July 24 2012 18:16 GMT
#15007
On July 25 2012 03:03 superstartran wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 24 2012 21:17 eqez wrote:
I dont remember Lanaya being this stronk in original DotA



Lanaya was harder to play in DotA 1 due to a plethora of reasons. The recent switch into DotA 2 has made her like 100x easier to play than she was in DotA 1, thus making her a faceroll smasher.

care to elaborate?
superstartran
Profile Joined March 2010
United States4013 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-24 18:33:38
July 24 2012 18:21 GMT
#15008
On July 25 2012 03:16 Attakijing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 25 2012 03:03 superstartran wrote:
On July 24 2012 21:17 eqez wrote:
I dont remember Lanaya being this stronk in original DotA



Lanaya was harder to play in DotA 1 due to a plethora of reasons. The recent switch into DotA 2 has made her like 100x easier to play than she was in DotA 1, thus making her a faceroll smasher.

care to elaborate?



The clunkier interface + extra delay that was existent in DotA 1 made all mechanically demanding heroes much harder to play. Playing SF in DotA 2 for instance is hellah easier than SF in DotA 1. This along with the funky WC3 engine that did all sorts of funny things in weird situations made TA much harder to play (Refract didn't always interact well with certain things). The new engine has reduced delay overall (built in delay is almost non-existent), and Refract works the way Icefrog always intended it to work. One being that autoattacking through refract doesn't disable blink (at least last time I played her; not sure if changed recently). Coldsnap also doesn't trigger, even though it did in DotA 1. Meld is also funky as hell. There's alot of inconsistencies in DotA 2 that make Lanaya MUCH stronger.


Also from what I'm reading she is also doing more damage than she did in DotA 1 because of the way Meld works, so yeah. Obviously alot of weird inconsistencies that make her much better.


1) Easier from a mechanical standpoint to play

2) Refract is avoiding alot of things it shouldn't like Cold Snap; Any damage trigger spells like Life Drain also do not work on Refract

3) Meld is doing significantly more damage than it was in DotA 1. Negative armor is placed before all damage calculations; in DotA 1 it is placed inbetween normal and bonus damage I believe.
rabidch
Profile Joined January 2010
United States20289 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-24 18:51:44
July 24 2012 18:48 GMT
#15009
On July 25 2012 03:21 superstartran wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 25 2012 03:16 Attakijing wrote:
On July 25 2012 03:03 superstartran wrote:
On July 24 2012 21:17 eqez wrote:
I dont remember Lanaya being this stronk in original DotA



Lanaya was harder to play in DotA 1 due to a plethora of reasons. The recent switch into DotA 2 has made her like 100x easier to play than she was in DotA 1, thus making her a faceroll smasher.

care to elaborate?



The clunkier interface + extra delay that was existent in DotA 1 made all mechanically demanding heroes much harder to play. Playing SF in DotA 2 for instance is hellah easier than SF in DotA 1. This along with the funky WC3 engine that did all sorts of funny things in weird situations made TA much harder to play (Refract didn't always interact well with certain things). The new engine has reduced delay overall (built in delay is almost non-existent), and Refract works the way Icefrog always intended it to work. One being that autoattacking through refract doesn't disable blink (at least last time I played her; not sure if changed recently). Coldsnap also doesn't trigger, even though it did in DotA 1. Meld is also funky as hell. There's alot of inconsistencies in DotA 2 that make Lanaya MUCH stronger.


Also from what I'm reading she is also doing more damage than she did in DotA 1 because of the way Meld works, so yeah. Obviously alot of weird inconsistencies that make her much better.


1) Easier from a mechanical standpoint to play

2) Refract is avoiding alot of things it shouldn't like Cold Snap; Any damage trigger spells like Life Drain also do not work on Refract

3) Meld is doing significantly more damage than it was in DotA 1. Negative armor is placed before all damage calculations; in DotA 1 it is placed inbetween normal and bonus damage I believe.

yep, all this. just want to elaborate that attack startup animations are much easier to work with in dota2, and that makes meld easier to work with as well. critical works with meld in an odd way but basically you didnt see casual 1.5k+ crits flying around in dota1. lastly is the improved psi blades mechanic working the way it should.

she was already a pretty good hero in dota1, but now its pretty ridiculous. refraction + dagger mechanics was changed from the last time you played it though


there were also small buffs between start of non-nda dota2 and dota1 in case people forget
LiquidDota StaffOnly a true king can play the King.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
July 24 2012 18:56 GMT
#15010
On July 25 2012 03:21 superstartran wrote:
One being that autoattacking through refract doesn't disable blink (at least last time I played her; not sure if changed recently).

Fixed in Naga patch:
- Fixed Templar Assassin's Refraction and Pipe causing Blink Dagger to not get disabled.
Moderator
superstartran
Profile Joined March 2010
United States4013 Posts
July 24 2012 18:56 GMT
#15011
On July 25 2012 03:48 rabidch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 25 2012 03:21 superstartran wrote:
On July 25 2012 03:16 Attakijing wrote:
On July 25 2012 03:03 superstartran wrote:
On July 24 2012 21:17 eqez wrote:
I dont remember Lanaya being this stronk in original DotA



Lanaya was harder to play in DotA 1 due to a plethora of reasons. The recent switch into DotA 2 has made her like 100x easier to play than she was in DotA 1, thus making her a faceroll smasher.

care to elaborate?



The clunkier interface + extra delay that was existent in DotA 1 made all mechanically demanding heroes much harder to play. Playing SF in DotA 2 for instance is hellah easier than SF in DotA 1. This along with the funky WC3 engine that did all sorts of funny things in weird situations made TA much harder to play (Refract didn't always interact well with certain things). The new engine has reduced delay overall (built in delay is almost non-existent), and Refract works the way Icefrog always intended it to work. One being that autoattacking through refract doesn't disable blink (at least last time I played her; not sure if changed recently). Coldsnap also doesn't trigger, even though it did in DotA 1. Meld is also funky as hell. There's alot of inconsistencies in DotA 2 that make Lanaya MUCH stronger.


Also from what I'm reading she is also doing more damage than she did in DotA 1 because of the way Meld works, so yeah. Obviously alot of weird inconsistencies that make her much better.


1) Easier from a mechanical standpoint to play

2) Refract is avoiding alot of things it shouldn't like Cold Snap; Any damage trigger spells like Life Drain also do not work on Refract

3) Meld is doing significantly more damage than it was in DotA 1. Negative armor is placed before all damage calculations; in DotA 1 it is placed inbetween normal and bonus damage I believe.

yep, all this. just want to elaborate that attack startup animations are much easier to work with in dota2, and that makes meld easier to work with as well. critical works with meld in an odd way but basically you didnt see casual 1.5k+ crits flying around in dota1. lastly is the improved psi blades mechanic working the way it should.

she was already a pretty good hero in dota1, but now its pretty ridiculous. refraction + dagger mechanics was changed from the last time you played it though


there were also small buffs between start of non-nda dota2 and dota1 in case people forget



Yeah her overall burst early game is huge compared to DotA 1 and she has crazy amounts of survivability in the lane. It's nuts. To be honest, she is crazy OP. She demands too much attention that it is stupid.
SKC
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil18828 Posts
July 24 2012 19:10 GMT
#15012
Well, she isn't really banned/picked all that often in pro games and she is far from the top when looking at win rates even in pubs. I don't really think it is the time to start begging for nerfs, there are stronger heroes in the game at the moment.
superstartran
Profile Joined March 2010
United States4013 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-24 19:26:29
July 24 2012 19:25 GMT
#15013
On July 25 2012 04:10 SKC wrote:
Well, she isn't really banned/picked all that often in pro games and she is far from the top when looking at win rates even in pubs. I don't really think it is the time to start begging for nerfs, there are stronger heroes in the game at the moment.



She is clearly OP. Virtually every pro game she is in, she flat out dominates if a direct lane counter is not present in her lane. I have yet to see a game where TA loses without a direct lane counter like Veno, Leshrac, etc.


Her burst is insanely higher early game than it is in DotA 1, and her scaling is through the roof. Alot of the bad mechanics of the WC3 engine kept the hero in check, and it's obvious that there's alot wrong with the current incarnation of TA in DotA 2.
HypernovA
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada556 Posts
July 24 2012 19:32 GMT
#15014
On July 25 2012 04:25 superstartran wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 25 2012 04:10 SKC wrote:
Well, she isn't really banned/picked all that often in pro games and she is far from the top when looking at win rates even in pubs. I don't really think it is the time to start begging for nerfs, there are stronger heroes in the game at the moment.



She is clearly OP. Virtually every pro game she is in, she flat out dominates if a direct lane counter is not present in her lane. I have yet to see a game where TA loses without a direct lane counter like Veno, Leshrac, etc.


Her burst is insanely higher early game than it is in DotA 1, and her scaling is through the roof. Alot of the bad mechanics of the WC3 engine kept the hero in check, and it's obvious that there's alot wrong with the current incarnation of TA in DotA 2.


So she's the same as in Wc3 without the bullshit limitations. Why are people not crying about kunkka's tide bringer critting when it did not in dota 1?

And you have to commit a ton of resources for a lot of heroes. Lycan, morph, anti Mage, furion.
People rarely played TA in WC3 so it's natural she is strong right now. And of course she will dominate without a counter pick. Any hero will dominate their lane if there is no counter to them. She is fine. Just wards, shut her early game down and play as a team.
Shai
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada806 Posts
July 24 2012 19:32 GMT
#15015
On July 25 2012 04:25 superstartran wrote:
Her burst is insanely higher early game than it is in DotA 1


Explain?
Eagerly awaiting Techies.
red_b
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1267 Posts
July 24 2012 19:34 GMT
#15016
there is always room for balance improvement.

nerfing meld a bit might be a good start. I mean, I like the hero and have played her a bit but I'd be lying if I said she isn't ridiculously powerful. fixing the refraction blink interaction was a good start, and the hero does require a bit of skill to use, but I do think taking meld down a little bit wouldn't stop her from being a top pick.
Those small maps were like a boxing match in a phone booth.
HypernovA
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada556 Posts
July 24 2012 19:35 GMT
#15017
On July 25 2012 04:32 Shai wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 25 2012 04:25 superstartran wrote:
Her burst is insanely higher early game than it is in DotA 1


Explain?

The armor reduction is done first before the meld damage is done while in wc3 the coding made it the opposite. Once you get deso, it's the same as in dota 2
superstartran
Profile Joined March 2010
United States4013 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-24 19:44:09
July 24 2012 19:41 GMT
#15018
On July 25 2012 04:32 HypernovA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 25 2012 04:25 superstartran wrote:
On July 25 2012 04:10 SKC wrote:
Well, she isn't really banned/picked all that often in pro games and she is far from the top when looking at win rates even in pubs. I don't really think it is the time to start begging for nerfs, there are stronger heroes in the game at the moment.



She is clearly OP. Virtually every pro game she is in, she flat out dominates if a direct lane counter is not present in her lane. I have yet to see a game where TA loses without a direct lane counter like Veno, Leshrac, etc.


Her burst is insanely higher early game than it is in DotA 1, and her scaling is through the roof. Alot of the bad mechanics of the WC3 engine kept the hero in check, and it's obvious that there's alot wrong with the current incarnation of TA in DotA 2.


So she's the same as in Wc3 without the bullshit limitations. Why are people not crying about kunkka's tide bringer critting when it did not in dota 1?

And you have to commit a ton of resources for a lot of heroes. Lycan, morph, anti Mage, furion.
People rarely played TA in WC3 so it's natural she is strong right now. And of course she will dominate without a counter pick. Any hero will dominate their lane if there is no counter to them. She is fine. Just wards, shut her early game down and play as a team.



You mean the same bullshit limitations that prevented her from doing blink dagger shennangians (which was fixed), her avoiding on damage trigger spells like cold snap / life drain (which is obvious unintended), and do close to a 100 extra damage off her meld early game?


LOL. Bitch is OP, and is severely broken when you compare her from DotA 1. Her damage is significantly lower in DotA 1 in various ways. The amount of stealth buffs is hilarious that were given to her. She is significantly more powerful early game than the original TA, which translates into much stronger mid to mid late game.


And pretending that Lycan isn't hellah stupid is funny too. A hero that completely ignores team fights and just pushes towers and wipes them out within under 5 seconds.
SKC
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil18828 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-24 19:45:06
July 24 2012 19:41 GMT
#15019
On July 25 2012 04:25 superstartran wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 25 2012 04:10 SKC wrote:
Well, she isn't really banned/picked all that often in pro games and she is far from the top when looking at win rates even in pubs. I don't really think it is the time to start begging for nerfs, there are stronger heroes in the game at the moment.



She is clearly OP. Virtually every pro game she is in, she flat out dominates if a direct lane counter is not present in her lane. I have yet to see a game where TA loses without a direct lane counter like Veno, Leshrac, etc.


Her burst is insanely higher early game than it is in DotA 1, and her scaling is through the roof. Alot of the bad mechanics of the WC3 engine kept the hero in check, and it's obvious that there's alot wrong with the current incarnation of TA in DotA 2.


She was picked 15 times and has 8 wins acording to Dota Academy. I wouldn't really say that indicates she is clearly OP in pro games. If she was, why aren't people banning or picking her at all quite often?

She was only banned 7 times. Naga was released later and already has 9 bans, which probally don't include today's games, where she was banned or picked and TA wasn't even considered.
[17]Purple
Profile Joined October 2011
United Kingdom3489 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-24 19:48:26
July 24 2012 19:44 GMT
#15020
Meld minus armour damage calculation includes the standard auto-attack as well as the Meld Bonus damage in DotA 2 while in DotA 1 it only amplified the Meld Bonus damage. That is really the only reason why she deals more damage than people expected in DotA 2.

Refraction interactions has changed significantly due to it actually IGNORING damage instead of auto healing with a trigger in a manner not to different from Void's Backtrack.

http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=47703
"Turn Disadvantages into Disadvantages" and "Collect Telephones". The secrets of Chinese success.
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