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On June 28 2012 01:42 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2012 01:40 chocopaw wrote:
Just to point it out: I play a LOT of support! And as soon as I'm absolutely positive that the enemy will die, I stop hitting him. Especially in close game situations I think carries should get every single coin possible. We discussed this pages ago. You're highly underestimating the value of support gold. Support kills are fine, and you shouldn't actively avoid taking them. Practically speaking, it doesn't even matter. If a carry gets more kills, his supports are going to need to take lane/jungle farm to finish Force Staff/Ghost Scepter/Blink Dagger/etc. If the support gets the kills, then they don't need to farm as much to get those items, and the carry makes back the lost kill gold from the extra farm the supports aren't taking.
Not to mention 50cs taken by a carry are taken like 10x as quick as 50cs taken by a support. Time is a valuable resource.
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Anybody notice a ridiculous amount of leavers/noobs in games recently? Probably 50% of my games someone leaves prematurely.
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United States47024 Posts
On June 28 2012 02:07 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2012 01:42 TheYango wrote:On June 28 2012 01:40 chocopaw wrote:
Just to point it out: I play a LOT of support! And as soon as I'm absolutely positive that the enemy will die, I stop hitting him. Especially in close game situations I think carries should get every single coin possible. We discussed this pages ago. You're highly underestimating the value of support gold. Support kills are fine, and you shouldn't actively avoid taking them. Practically speaking, it doesn't even matter. If a carry gets more kills, his supports are going to need to take lane/jungle farm to finish Force Staff/Ghost Scepter/Blink Dagger/etc. If the support gets the kills, then they don't need to farm as much to get those items, and the carry makes back the lost kill gold from the extra farm the supports aren't taking. Not to mention 50cs taken by a carry are taken like 10x as quick as 50cs taken by a support. Time is a valuable resource.
Depends on the support. Some supports have no problem farming waves quickly (e.g. ES, CM, Lina, SD), but some are so slow at it that it's really awkward when they can't get kills because it takes a long time for to get to their items otherwise (e.g. VS, Lion).
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/hhEdc.png)
lol :D
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United States47024 Posts
Posts from the official forums of any game are trash. How is that worth a post?
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On June 28 2012 02:50 TheYango wrote:
Posts from the official forums of any game are trash. How is that worth a post?
i dunno maybe because he's riding on dota 2 for being exactly what it set out to be? lol.
But re Ksing: I've had some ksing i'd rather not happen. i play sacrifice support so i don't give a shit about it anyway, BUT. had a team with a riki who literally sat invis the whole teamfight and only attacked when he could blink for the kill immediately, he then ran away until he stealthed again to get another kill. He then couldn't understand why we were losing fights in the later half the game. -.- their whole team even told him to help his team fight. And he replied by saying I'm 14-0 (with no assists btw) they just suck.
I just shook my head and supported my heart out with urn and mek.
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Let's keep the LoL vs HoN vs DotA argument out of this forum... Each game is different in it's own way it all comes to down to personal preference.
On supports farming, it really depends on the game and how the players like to play their own heroes. Sometimes I end up farming a lot with supports and other times I get jackall. Heroes like NS, BH and others can go and gank a lot mid-game so you get the space to farm a lane as you might be less mobile than them.
As an example, my Earthshaker had 2nd highest cs in the game (and it was being played primarily as a support early) with blink in 18 minutes and in other games my Earthshaker wouldn't have a blink until 25 minutes (in games which are going my teams way). When I'm losing I probably don't even get a blink until 35 minutes.
Oh and I don't believe in saving kills for the carry it's way too risky. Support items such as janggo, bracers and sometimes mek are just as important for a team to have.
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On June 28 2012 03:03 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2012 02:50 TheYango wrote:
Posts from the official forums of any game are trash. How is that worth a post? i dunno maybe because he's riding on dota 2 for being exactly what it set out to be? lol. But re Ksing: I've had some ksing i'd rather not happen. i play sacrifice support so i don't give a shit about it anyway, BUT. had a team with a riki who literally sat invis the whole teamfight and only attacked when he could blink for the kill immediately, he then ran away until he stealthed again to get another kill. He then couldn't understand why we were losing fights in the later half the game. -.- their whole team even told him to help his team fight. And he replied by saying I'm 14-0 (with no assists btw) they just suck. I just shook my head and supported my heart out with urn and mek.
That sounds a troll to me nobody can be that stupid -.- unless he is a beginner but even then.....
On that note that, many carry players are good at ksing anyway but as I said above it's not that big of a deal IMO.
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On June 28 2012 03:07 The Great Taste wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2012 03:03 PrinceXizor wrote:On June 28 2012 02:50 TheYango wrote:
Posts from the official forums of any game are trash. How is that worth a post? i dunno maybe because he's riding on dota 2 for being exactly what it set out to be? lol. But re Ksing: I've had some ksing i'd rather not happen. i play sacrifice support so i don't give a shit about it anyway, BUT. had a team with a riki who literally sat invis the whole teamfight and only attacked when he could blink for the kill immediately, he then ran away until he stealthed again to get another kill. He then couldn't understand why we were losing fights in the later half the game. -.- their whole team even told him to help his team fight. And he replied by saying I'm 14-0 (with no assists btw) they just suck. I just shook my head and supported my heart out with urn and mek. That sounds a troll to me nobody can be that stupid -.- unless he is a beginner but even then..... On that note that, many carry players are good at ksing anyway but as I said above it's not that big of a deal IMO.
Honestly if he did nothing but throw out smoke and blink strike to kill in team fights i wouldn't have been upset at ALL. but we didn't even get his smoke screen. a riki only contributing 5 blink strikes to every team fight is kind of annoying to team with.  but yeah if he did anything more to help the team i'd have been like, yeah he's just new and scared, that's fine. but he wasn't even trying to help.
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Bad KSing doesn't mean lina ultiing a 300 hp guy that may die otherwise, it means lina ultiing a 10 hp guy, and the team missing the kill on another hero because of it... That is what makes me pissed. And I would guess most people. Or when Zeus uses his ulti at the end of the teamfight to make sure he gets the kills, while 3 teammates are killed by 200 hp enemies.... I yelled at a friend of mine for doing that with zeus once  . So basically bad KS means using your spells suboptimally just to ensure that you get as much kills as possible (even if overall K/D of your team ends up worse).
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On June 28 2012 03:04 The Great Taste wrote:
Let's keep the LoL vs HoN vs DotA argument out of this forum... Each game is different in it's own way it all comes to down to personal preference.
On supports farming, it really depends on the game and how the players like to play their own heroes. Sometimes I end up farming a lot with supports and other times I get jackall. Heroes like NS, BH and others can go and gank a lot mid-game so you get the space to farm a lane as you might be less mobile than them.
As an example, my Earthshaker had 2nd highest cs in the game (and it was being played primarily as a support early) with blink in 18 minutes and in other games my Earthshaker wouldn't have a blink until 25 minutes (in games which are going my teams way). When I'm losing I probably don't even get a blink until 35 minutes.
Oh and I don't believe in saving kills for the carry it's way too risky. Support items such as janggo, bracers and sometimes mek are just as important for a team to have.
use the soul ring recipe tactic bro
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What is the soul ring thing? I saw someone doing it when I watched a game awhile back but missed the explanation.
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Recipes sell for 80% of the gold they originally cost so you can buy recipes if it looks like you will be dying a lot but still need to save money.
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On June 28 2012 05:25 Tahona wrote:
What is the soul ring thing? I saw someone doing it when I watched a game awhile back but missed the explanation.
You buy soul ring recipes as a mean of saving money. Recipes sell for 80% and soul ring is the cheapest recipe in the game. If you die a lot i helps you not lose much money (20% ofc) You get like 20 recipes over time, sell them all and buy a dagger
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Netherlands45349 Posts
soul ring recipe costs 125 gold and you get 80% gold back from recipes, thus if you are in high danger of dying every so on you can stack soul ring recipes and sell them to get your blink dagger.
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That strategy really rubs me the wrong way, I hope that doesn't become a norm or a legitimate strategy. I hope something is done so players can't abuse methods like that. ~_~
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On June 28 2012 05:30 crms wrote:
That strategy really rubs me the wrong way, I hope that doesn't become a norm or a legitimate strategy. I hope something is done so players can't abuse methods like that. ~_~
Well it's worth it really only when you die A LOT, like once every 3 minutes lot
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United States47024 Posts
Realistically its not THAT amazing. You have to be dying so much that you can't afford to get other consumables and are just stacking the recipes to get to your items.
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On June 28 2012 05:30 crms wrote:
That strategy really rubs me the wrong way, I hope that doesn't become a norm or a legitimate strategy. I hope something is done so players can't abuse methods like that. ~_~
too annoying and tryhard to do for me in a real game. too lazy for that
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Maybe you can get the recipe if playing venomancer where it is to be expected that you die Honestly, Ks'ing is not an issue to me, it is just how one goes about doing so. If they are blatant in their Ks'ing, than I have issues. I was laning with Slar and my support kept last hitting. It was a bit annoying but what ever. Well, he was getting attacked and tried to run, so I ran in, stunned, pretty much completely killed him (was 1 hit away and about to finish it) and my support uses a skill (not even right clicks) to finish him.
This rubs me the wrong way because it was not necessary, a waste of mana, and let me become further behind. At one point, they even complained why I did not even have certain items (which was dumb, try to take all the lh's, ks, and than complain about me not having certain items yet, sooo dumb).
But yeah, like I said. Ks'ing is not an issue to me, it is just how they go about doing so. If blatant, intentional, and potentially wasteful, than I am against it. If just trying to kill them as fast as possible and not trying to be greedy, than I am fine with it.
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EPT
