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On August 30 2014 13:27 SirFloppu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2014 13:06 Kishin2 wrote:On August 30 2014 12:59 Acritter wrote:On August 30 2014 12:13 Kishin2 wrote:
He has 52% winrate according to dotabuff. Calling any hero "free MMR" is an excuse. And Earth Spirit had a sub-50 winrate when he was the absolute most broken shit around. So your point is that bad players have a tendency of dragging an imbalanced hero's winrate down? Well, I can't really judge if you're a "bad" player or not. The fact of the matter is that Void isn't Terrorizing games across the board and complaining that a hero is broken isn't productive. People just don't like Void. Hence why he got the model rework in place of heroes that probably needed it more
I think the reason he's getting a model rework is because people do like him. He's 3rd most played according to dotabuff.
On August 30 2014 13:28 Acritter wrote:
The only thing that's productive right now is Valve nerfing that shit, because it simply isn't fun to play with. Wisp and Batrider's broken days were a-okay in pubs. Hell, even Magnus was bearable. It's just an awful goddamn hero all around.
But tell me, really, what were you thinking when you said "counter pick?" Because that's just boggling my mind trying to figure that out. You might want to share your thoughts with competitive players, so that they can learn how to "counter pick" Void.
He has a 48% winrate in competitive 6.81 play according to datdota. Dotabuff has a list of heroes that have a winrate advantage against Faceless Void.
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If the major bugs (which are now pretty much confirmed to be intended) were fixed then it would be as large a change as a balance patch. And probably a hell of a lot healthier than just changing the meta randomly because pubs are getting predictable.
Incorrectly calculated stats on heroes as they gain levels(likely due to truncation), no gain of hp/mana on level up, randomizer not being correct, negative armor formula being wrong, no paused state (OD imprison/Void ult). I think tower BAT is still incorrect after 10 minutes into the game as well.
The negative armor formula is almost certainly intended based on how much they've buffed negative armor heroes to compensate for it (look at the changes to dazzle, slardar ults), the others it seems less certain.
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Also, why do people keep drafting Skywrath + Void ? Outside of the very obvious ult combo it seems like it's a terrible combination.
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On August 30 2014 14:29 Nevuk wrote:
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Also, why do people keep drafting Skywrath + Void ? Outside of the very obvious ult combo it seems like it's a terrible combination.
Void is a so-so laner. Sky is a great laner, decent ganker and has good team fight damage. All things that compliment Void well throughout the game.
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On August 30 2014 14:42 Yurie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2014 14:29 Nevuk wrote:
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Also, why do people keep drafting Skywrath + Void ? Outside of the very obvious ult combo it seems like it's a terrible combination. Void is a so-so laner. Sky is a great laner, decent ganker and has good team fight damage. All things that compliment Void well throughout the game.
Yeah... but they have an atrocious winrate together competitively I'm pretty sure. They don't synergize, their power peaks are at wildly different points throughout the game. Skywrath is an aggressive support who wants to gank/snowball early... while void can only offer a mediocre slow and random bashes before 6, and by the time Void hits 6 skywrath has peaked. Not saying he's useless, just that Sky offers less and less after that point. Both of them are fragile enough to get exploded for most of the game as well (Backtrack and Time walk do go a long way towards keeping Void alive in offlane etc., but the amount of damage required to bring him down is generally fairly consistent, and even at his luckiest a void is going to probably be obliterated long before a kraken shell maxing tidehunter or offlane centaur).
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
Oh boy, that's some intense high-level balance discussion going on right now! You got the winrates down I see. Sadly, I can't really take it seriously until you add probability and graphs. =/
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How does he offer less and less. He offers the same, he's like one of the few supports that scale very well into the late game.
Yea sure there's a midgame where people have bkbs, but you still remain capable of soloing cores as a support.
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Oh boi the techies tears, yes yes
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Honestly i dont see techies as a plague like back in dota1 days because we now have a complete different game thanks to valve organizing the player pool accordingly. Better players all around with decent mmr/more people watch pro games so nowadays players can make some heroes work much better than back in dota1, like picking sniper nowadays you wont get flamed very hard anymore/you often see solo mid sniper etc.
But despite all that techies is still the hero that is very hard to play good with, is just that i won't immediately despise the hero. It is unlikely that we will get the stable amount of good players like phoenix/earth spirit after X amount of time after the new hero release for techies though haha. More so the odd times that i was playing in SEA server and i saw that nobody picked the newly released hero (iirc it was Medu) because people dont want to 'lose'. Maybe people will avoid picking him here in eu.....
+ Show Spoiler +not a fucking chance i knew some retards will always pick him.....
techies love hate all in one
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On August 30 2014 14:42 Yurie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2014 14:29 Nevuk wrote:
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Also, why do people keep drafting Skywrath + Void ? Outside of the very obvious ult combo it seems like it's a terrible combination. Void is a so-so laner. Sky is a great laner, decent ganker and has good team fight damage. All things that compliment Void well throughout the game.
Sky is not a great laner, no right click damage, a mediocre slow, mana intensive spells, no real nuke (in the sense of no big INSTANT damage), paper made. Sure you should be able to burn the regen items of ONE opponent if your carry controls the lane decently but he won't offer much in a 2v2 to protect a void.
On August 30 2014 17:22 Andre wrote:
How does he offer less and less. He offers the same, he's like one of the few supports that scale very well into the late game.
Yea sure there's a midgame where people have bkbs, but you still remain capable of soloing cores as a support.
Scales into lategame without hard CC and no way of farming? mmh k
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On August 30 2014 17:22 Andre wrote:
How does he offer less and less. He offers the same, he's like one of the few supports that scale very well into the late game.
Yea sure there's a midgame where people have bkbs, but you still remain capable of soloing cores as a support.
yes it is insane to see a good techies late game, he is like an Eza who skills (exponentially) well into the late game, the guy can singlehandedly defend the base with up to 2 lanes of big creeps, 3lanes/megacreep is rather hard though.
Techies' team with early game advantage can snowball very big in a short amount of time. I'd say techies' role is supportive snowballer, i remember those nightmarish moments getting owned by some really good techies (at the odd times) back then, you absolutely cant do shit but to see the advantage of the oppo getting bigger and bigger caused' you cant even leave your base. smoke gank their carry hope for some comeback? boom ultrakill
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Guys, when should you pick ember? And should you gank before phase boots? I feel like if I don't get a good rune most ganks aren't worth it even at level 6 if I dont have my phase. I think I may just be on a bad streak but I know the heroes mechanics. I don't feed in lane and do OK in cs, unless its like viper but I have a horrible win rate. I don't know why. So I am just asking when he is a good pick ( w/r is like 45%). Also what build? I've heard moon say that bfury is shit item and he like skadi manta but idk if thats the right way
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On August 30 2014 17:41 nojok wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2014 14:42 Yurie wrote:On August 30 2014 14:29 Nevuk wrote:
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Also, why do people keep drafting Skywrath + Void ? Outside of the very obvious ult combo it seems like it's a terrible combination. Void is a so-so laner. Sky is a great laner, decent ganker and has good team fight damage. All things that compliment Void well throughout the game. Sky is not a great laner, no right click damage, a mediocre slow, mana intensive spells, no real nuke (in the sense of no big INSTANT damage), paper made. Sure you should be able to burn the regen items of ONE opponent if your carry controls the lane decently but he won't offer much in a 2v2 to protect a void. Show nested quote +On August 30 2014 17:22 Andre wrote:
How does he offer less and less. He offers the same, he's like one of the few supports that scale very well into the late game.
Yea sure there's a midgame where people have bkbs, but you still remain capable of soloing cores as a support. Scales into lategame without hard CC and no way of farming? mmh k
His 'CC' (i use '' for obvious reason lol that stasis trap is not the usual CC spell) is the longest disable/aoe stun in the game so it is hard enough alright, and his way of farming should be 98.89% coming from killing heroes. Not saying that he is amazing/uber good late game but a good (skill+farm wise)techies late game is disgusting, especially in defending/pushing aspect.
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lol
good techie player who actually maxes mines and stasis is one of the absolute gayest pushers with the damage that it does to towers and good luck engaging into a well placed stasis trap
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On August 30 2014 17:56 .mercy wrote:
Guys, when should you pick ember? And should you gank before phase boots? I feel like if I don't get a good rune most ganks aren't worth it even at level 6 if I dont have my phase. I think I may just be on a bad streak but I know the heroes mechanics. I don't feed in lane and do OK in cs, unless its like viper but I have a horrible win rate. I don't know why. So I am just asking when he is a good pick ( w/r is like 45%). Also what build? I've heard moon say that bfury is shit item and he like skadi manta but idk if thats the right way
If you max flame guard and searing chains you can gank pretty well from 6 with the right runes.
Personally I like battlefury on ember, some don't, but I feel like there isn't much point to him unless you are going to try for insane sleight of fist/late game damage
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On August 30 2014 17:57 BurningSera wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2014 17:41 nojok wrote:On August 30 2014 14:42 Yurie wrote:On August 30 2014 14:29 Nevuk wrote:
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Also, why do people keep drafting Skywrath + Void ? Outside of the very obvious ult combo it seems like it's a terrible combination. Void is a so-so laner. Sky is a great laner, decent ganker and has good team fight damage. All things that compliment Void well throughout the game. Sky is not a great laner, no right click damage, a mediocre slow, mana intensive spells, no real nuke (in the sense of no big INSTANT damage), paper made. Sure you should be able to burn the regen items of ONE opponent if your carry controls the lane decently but he won't offer much in a 2v2 to protect a void. On August 30 2014 17:22 Andre wrote:
How does he offer less and less. He offers the same, he's like one of the few supports that scale very well into the late game.
Yea sure there's a midgame where people have bkbs, but you still remain capable of soloing cores as a support. Scales into lategame without hard CC and no way of farming? mmh k His 'CC' (i use '' for obvious reason lol that stasis trap is not the usual CC spell) is the longest disable/aoe stun in the game so it is hard enough alright, and his way of farming should be 98.89% coming from killing heroes. Not saying that he is amazing/uber good late game but a good (skill+farm wise)techies late game is disgusting, especially in defending/pushing aspect.
He's talking about Skywrath, but it still makes no sense considering Arcane Bolt has really good damage per mana (unless you're comparing it to Shadowraze or some shit but support SF is dumb as hell). Like, I just think about his post more and more and it makes less and less sense how you can come to the conclusion that SWM is a bad laner
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that embarrassing moment when you only reply by reading the last page xD
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Also I have no idea what you're talking about nojok. SW burns through most offlaner's regen in first 3 levels so easily. His slow is mediocre? You can initiate with it before smoke gets dispelled, how is that mediocre. Not many supports offer that, sure it's pretty slow and can be countered by certain heroes but in general it's one of the best early game ganking initations you can have.
Also main thing is the silence anyway.
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
On August 30 2014 17:41 nojok wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2014 14:42 Yurie wrote:On August 30 2014 14:29 Nevuk wrote:
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Also, why do people keep drafting Skywrath + Void ? Outside of the very obvious ult combo it seems like it's a terrible combination. Void is a so-so laner. Sky is a great laner, decent ganker and has good team fight damage. All things that compliment Void well throughout the game. Sky is not a great laner, no right click damage, a mediocre slow, mana intensive spells, no real nuke (in the sense of no big INSTANT damage), paper made. Sure you should be able to burn the regen items of ONE opponent if your carry controls the lane decently but he won't offer much in a 2v2 to protect a void. Show nested quote +On August 30 2014 17:22 Andre wrote:
How does he offer less and less. He offers the same, he's like one of the few supports that scale very well into the late game.
Yea sure there's a midgame where people have bkbs, but you still remain capable of soloing cores as a support. Scales into lategame without hard CC and no way of farming? mmh k
wat
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Guys what do i do with my flair thing or whatever
I'm in despair, my sweet, sweet bulba-chan
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EPT
