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General Discussion - Page 5966

Forum Index > Dota 2 General
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IRC chatter should remain in IRC - http://webchat.quakenet.org/?channels=tl.dota2

Posts that relate to topics with their own thread, such as in News, Tournaments or Strategy should go in those threads.
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
July 23 2014 16:23 GMT
#119301
On July 23 2014 23:54 Comeh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2014 23:52 Torte de Lini wrote:
Comeh where's mah present

uhhhhh.

I mean will you make me famous if i give you something


As soon as I am famous in a good way rofl
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
July 23 2014 16:28 GMT
#119302
4-protect 1 sucks ass though. That just loses to true greed which is what smoke punishes (EG/C9 4/5-core drafts with like enigma + SK jungle shenanigans etc). Smoke doesn't punish 4-prot-1 very well really.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
teddyoojo
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Germany22369 Posts
July 23 2014 17:04 GMT
#119303
4 protect 1 isnt supposed to keep the 1 alive its supposed to win the early midgame
Esports historian since 2000. Creator of 'The Universe' and 'The best scrambled Eggs 2013'. Host of 'Star Wars Marathon 2015'. Thinker of 'teddyoojo's Thoughts'. Earths and Moons leading CS:GO expert. Lord of the Rings.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
July 23 2014 17:22 GMT
#119304
The nature of 4-protects-1 though means that the 4 will generally play much closer together, creating less openings for a smoke to be successful than 2- or 3-core lineups. Multiple farming heroes means its much more likely to find scenarios where the team cannot respond to a threat against one of them because some of the others may not immediately be in position to fight or push. Conversely if all 4 of your non-carry heroes are together, it's very easy to immediately punish a smoke gank, regardless of whether it's successful, with a countergank, taking a tower, etc.
Moderator
makmeatt
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
2024 Posts
July 23 2014 17:34 GMT
#119305
On July 24 2014 01:28 Sn0_Man wrote:
4-protect 1 sucks ass though. That just loses to true greed which is what smoke punishes (EG/C9 4/5-core drafts with like enigma + SK jungle shenanigans etc). Smoke doesn't punish 4-prot-1 very well really.

That's when you draft a mobile ganking lineup and punish greed. It's all down to draft - it's not like 4p1 is bad in general, just that the current popular drafts are superior.
"Silver Edge can't break my hope" - Kryptt 2016 || "Chrono is not a debuff, you just get rekt" - Guru 2016
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-23 17:40:33
July 23 2014 17:40 GMT
#119306
I mean if 4p1 was good it's like tailor made to counter aggressive roam into push strats (aka what came 1 and 2 in TI) if played well, but it's just not a winning way to play right now.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
yookstah
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia655 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-23 17:51:58
July 23 2014 17:48 GMT
#119307
On July 23 2014 02:53 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2014 02:47 PassiveAce wrote:
iv had lots of friends switch from lol to dota but never the other way around

it seems lame to me that people in LCS can do things that I cant though.

You mean get paid for playing LoL? That might be your problem more than the game's. Just saying.

I could list for days all the reasons I don't play specific games, but in the end they are my reasons. The whole argument of "Yo, the game is objectively worse than dota because look at this rune system" is just silly. Better or worse is totally subjective, unless we are talking about train wreck games like "Big Rigs" or Atari's ET.


Don't you go dissin' my Big Rigs.

To get slightly on topic: It is rather amusing to see everyone being sad at the "State of the game", specifically the finals, where VG got manhandled after taking the first game by "the same damn boring strategy". In the series, I didn't necessarily feel it was a 'strategy loss/win', just Newbee's execution was so much better. I guess their drafts were better in pretty much every case, too, so that's a point for strategy I suppose (if you bundle those).
"I'm saying that you are all the time aggressive. I say to you choose situations to be aggressive and not aggressive. I'm talking it" - Cooller
Kazzoo
Profile Joined October 2010
France368 Posts
July 23 2014 17:50 GMT
#119308
Trying to settle a bet.
Were TP scrolls ever cancellable by silence ? (like waaaaaaaaay back).
yookstah
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia655 Posts
July 23 2014 17:54 GMT
#119309
I only remember TP Scroll triggering Last Word (don't really know about the interaction in Dota 2), but that doesn't count.
"I'm saying that you are all the time aggressive. I say to you choose situations to be aggressive and not aggressive. I'm talking it" - Cooller
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-23 17:58:33
July 23 2014 17:55 GMT
#119310
On July 24 2014 02:48 yookstah wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2014 02:53 Plansix wrote:
On July 23 2014 02:47 PassiveAce wrote:
iv had lots of friends switch from lol to dota but never the other way around

it seems lame to me that people in LCS can do things that I cant though.

You mean get paid for playing LoL? That might be your problem more than the game's. Just saying.

I could list for days all the reasons I don't play specific games, but in the end they are my reasons. The whole argument of "Yo, the game is objectively worse than dota because look at this rune system" is just silly. Better or worse is totally subjective, unless we are talking about train wreck games like "Big Rigs" or Atari's ET.


Don't you go dissin' my Big Rigs.

To get slightly on topic: It is rather amusing to see everyone being sad at the "State of the game", specifically the finals, where VG got manhandled after taking the first game by "the same damn boring strategy". In the series, I didn't necessarily feel it was a 'strategy loss/win', just Newbee's execution was so much better. I guess their drafts were better in pretty much every case, too, so that's a point for strategy I suppose (if you bundle those).

Big rigs is considered one of the worst games of human creation by Alex Navarro, a man so steeped in terrible things that he watch 30 one star movies on Netflix for a written series called "30 days of Pain"(Just think about the netflix rating system and how bad a movie would need to be to get 1 star)

Big Rigs is a warcrime, plain and simple.

And the meta will be new in a month or so, like always. We had great games two months ago and not a lot changed.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
July 23 2014 17:57 GMT
#119311
I mean we had great games this TI too, just not as many of them and none in the Grand Finals. TI3 had it's fair share of atrocious/unwatchable games, those won't ever go away.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
Zvenn3n
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Sweden1196 Posts
July 23 2014 17:59 GMT
#119312
Are you talking about Na'Vi vs TongFu? If so, I think you mean AWESOME (fountain hooks OP, except when done by Root, ofc).
crms
Profile Joined February 2010
United States11933 Posts
July 23 2014 18:04 GMT
#119313
On July 23 2014 23:39 Sn0_Man wrote:
People I was asking
[x] Beesa
[] Plansix

rofl, Well Met!
http://i.imgur.com/fAUOr2c.png | Fighting games are great
andyrau
Profile Joined December 2010
13015 Posts
July 23 2014 18:09 GMT
#119314
people are just salty the finals weren't east vs west or something

On July 24 2014 02:50 Kazzoo wrote:
Trying to settle a bet.
Were TP scrolls ever cancellable by silence ? (like waaaaaaaaay back).

dont think so
tps are an item, not a spell
only silence that cancels tps is doom, but I think that's a mute rather than a silence.

at least, this is what I remember back when I played dota1 in 08ish
"Zai is legitimately not as good as bulba." | kaipi ti3 champions
Ru ba
Profile Joined February 2014
Serbia1812 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-23 18:10:54
July 23 2014 18:10 GMT
#119315
root trying to execute fountain hooks was the pubbiest pro game ever
u gotta farm
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-23 18:12:06
July 23 2014 18:10 GMT
#119316
I'm curious what some of the heroes not in the pool, but in DotA2 are going to do to the game. Phoenix especially seems well poised to work against facerushing with her long range AoE damage that doesn't come at the expensive of being easily ganked or lacking teamfight presence (like say KotL in terms of the former category). Same with LC (OO) and ES (push/pull) to an extent as well. Even broodmother seems like she'd have potential in the sense that a lot of the face rush drafts don't necessarily seem well equipped to control a Broodmother and unlike say using NP to splitpush around face rush BM seems like she has more threat to a tower early on. Especially given how BH worked well for C9 vs VG in creating space, it seems like BM could do the same (some balance concerns on BM notwithstanding).
Logo
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-23 18:15:54
July 23 2014 18:15 GMT
#119317
BM's incredibly immobile and if you park a hero that can deal with her in her lane she does nothing.
I though Earth Spirit got added to CM?
LC is really strong and will almost certainly see play IMO unless she recieves some nerfs in the process of fixing duel in Dota 2.
Phoenix is hard to really say what will happen but that hero is imo kinda just bad. Especially in competitive matches where the coordination to exploit her weaknesses is there and where the inability to function in a certain meta is very important.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
yookstah
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia655 Posts
July 23 2014 18:22 GMT
#119318
To somewhat segway: could you see Balanar becoming popular again? I know his laning isn't THE BEST, but he's strong in early fights (obviously due to night-time, especially with 4 min first night) and doesn't really need many items as a result.

Is his laning against some more popular mid heroes (I suppose Panda could poop on him decently) one of the main reasons he isn't being picked? Or just because it's like "hurr Balanar is missing it's night time watch out guys", though that's just cue to force fights, right?
"I'm saying that you are all the time aggressive. I say to you choose situations to be aggressive and not aggressive. I'm talking it" - Cooller
teddyoojo
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Germany22369 Posts
July 23 2014 18:26 GMT
#119319
hes viable in certain lineups but its hard find the right lineup not sure how to really say that

dont think hell ever be really popular, hes the kind of hero that would need to be op to be popular
Esports historian since 2000. Creator of 'The Universe' and 'The best scrambled Eggs 2013'. Host of 'Star Wars Marathon 2015'. Thinker of 'teddyoojo's Thoughts'. Earths and Moons leading CS:GO expert. Lord of the Rings.
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-23 18:32:53
July 23 2014 18:26 GMT
#119320
On July 24 2014 03:15 Sn0_Man wrote:
BM's incredibly immobile and if you park a hero that can deal with her in her lane she does nothing.
I though Earth Spirit got added to CM?
LC is really strong and will almost certainly see play IMO unless she recieves some nerfs in the process of fixing duel in Dota 2.
Phoenix is hard to really say what will happen but that hero is imo kinda just bad. Especially in competitive matches where the coordination to exploit her weaknesses is there and where the inability to function in a certain meta is very important.


Yeah BM certainly has those weaknesses, but she still seems like a potential last/late pick against the more push-oriented face rush lineups maybe. I have to admit to a big lack of understanding in general, but more specifically for BM since I've never watched DotA when she's popular. Still if I look at those line-ups (especially VG's pushing lineups) there's wave clearing in the mix, but not necessarily something to lockdown/kill a BM (especially 1v1) so it makes me wonder how you'd simultaneously keep out a BM and face rush lanes. In that sense it seems like the BM could space create pretty well. But again I don't have much experience with BM being used in comp DotA so what do I know?

I'm curious what you think is weak/bad about Phoenix? It would seem like with FV being strong/popular she'd have a pretty good place in the meta at the very least considering she offers quite strong support to Chronosphere (both Beam and Ulty). Likewise with tanky cores in general (razor) given that Beam is a pretty strong sustain (I think once a target has >1250 hp only healing ward is more healing/sec).
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