EPTOn July 24 2014 00:44 cecek wrote:
Mason "may be done with" competitive DotA.
Mason "may be done with" competitive DotA.
Well that was fast. Why tho? I thought he planned on taking a break from college to become a pro?
General Discussion - Page 5965
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EnumaAvalon
Philippines3613 Posts
Well that was fast. Why tho? I thought he planned on taking a break from college to become a pro? | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Animzor
Sweden2154 Posts
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On July 24 2014 00:18 Comeh wrote: Also a pretty good list of heroes I expect to be nerfed in important of nerfs. I'd be pretty disappointed if we get a major patch any time in the next 2 months. 6.81b is hardly figured out. We saw a dominant strategy emerge at TI4 but we also saw in the finals that it's not unbeatable--the patch was just too close to the event for teams to have the chance to properly see it and figure it out. Two months into a major version is way too early to call anything nerf-worthy. I'd say a patch cycle needs to be ~3-4 months at the shortest, and 4-6 ideally. In general, communities tend to react overly strongly to apparently strong strategies when many of these strategies die down and get figured out if given time--it's premature for Valve to be nerfing things when the patch is so young. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
Although one of the best features of 6.81b seems to be the ability of teams to ban completely different things against different teams (barring lycan which is just permabanned). Maybe that just means the patch isn't "figured out" as you like to put it but realistically I think it's great that VG can ban Meepo/Visage first phase and still win against C9 who admittedly kinda fucked up but are a good team. Then they can ban like tide/enigma vs EG and Razor/DP vs Newbee. Just the fact that it isn't the same 3-4 bans every game is amazing imo. | ||
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Laserist
Turkey4269 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
I don't think teams have really dug into the patch and the high prize pool made them really double down on what they felt would win them the event, even if it meant they got some really deep tunnel vision. | ||
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Meser87
United States476 Posts
On July 24 2014 00:54 Sn0_Man wrote: Okay but 6.81c removing lycan from the game wouldn't be amiss Then what else am I going to do in AP? Pick FV?  | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On July 24 2014 00:53 TheYango wrote: I'd be pretty disappointed if we get a major patch any time in the next 2 months. 6.81b is hardly figured out. We saw a dominant strategy emerge at TI4 but we also saw in the finals that it's not unbeatable--the patch was just too close to the event for teams to have the chance to properly see it and figure it out. Two months into a major version is way too early to call anything nerf-worthy. I'd say a patch cycle needs to be ~3-4 months at the shortest, and 4-6 ideally. In general, communities tend to react overly strongly to apparently strong strategies when many of these strategies die down and get figured out if given time--it's premature for Valve to be nerfing things when the patch is so young. Well judging from previous TI's, we'll have until ~october before our next patch (which is when teams will be settled anyways / in time for the next big LAN). I agree more or less about the patch, but there are some glaring obvious problems with some heroes. On July 24 2014 01:02 TheYango wrote: Honestly if we had another month or two before the event, with major LAN events like the MLG that had to get canceled, we might have had a very different tournament. Well TI typically follows trends that weren't necessarily true of previous LANs, which can make a hero seem OP or nerf worthy, but teams are more or less just not prepared to play against the new hero / flavor of the LAN. LANs just have this mindset of finding these trends and holding on to them. But lycan is an issue right now. Panda debatable, but seems very very very strong right now. Oh shadow shaman. Yeah he'll be nerfed. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
On July 24 2014 00:57 Plansix wrote: The number of heroes that were not used at TI that were super strong a month ago was sort of mind blowing. The fact that we saw zero KotL against those heavy, super early push strats really surprised me. KotL blast is super strong against low level, low items characters and is surprised me we didn't see him once. I don't think teams have really dug into the patch and the high prize pool made them really double down on what they felt would win them the event, even if it meant they got some really deep tunnel vision. The true strategy of the chinese early push lineups was to get an early advantage by roaming ur supports and dictating the pace of the game constantly from there generally via pushing and skirmishes with strong engagement heroes. If kotl interacted better against early roaming etc then he'd be picked but it wasn't uncommon to see early 3v3 engagements mid lane for example and kotl doesn't offer the disable or really reliable enough damage most of the time in those situations due to smoke positioning etc. Plus his ability to farm the jungle is entirely superseded by sand king who also roams better with a hard stun etc (requires the same setup). Kotl's late-game ability to provide mobility entirely lacks relevance vs such aggressive play and his ability to spam out creep waves is good but not "enough" as it doesn't prevent you losing all your tier ones, and once that happens the other team usually has the gold to brute force T2s with push spells and mek/pipe/necrobook type items. Basically too much hinged upon early game roaming to gain an advantage for teams to pick kotl. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On July 24 2014 01:02 TheYango wrote: Honestly if we had another month or two before the event, with major LAN events like the MLG that had to get canceled, we might have had a very different tournament. This TI did lack the long, silent period that we had before TI3. It was a pretty break neck pace for most of the teams leading up to the event and that might have contributed to the sort of myopic drafts. | ||
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Laserist
Turkey4269 Posts
On July 24 2014 00:57 Plansix wrote: The number of heroes that were not used at TI that were super strong a month ago was sort of mind blowing. The fact that we saw zero KotL against those heavy, super early push strats really surprised me. KotL blast is super strong against low level, low items characters and is surprised me we didn't see him once. I don't think teams have really dug into the patch and the high prize pool made them really double down on what they felt would win them the event, even if it meant they got some really deep tunnel vision. Pushing teams in some games used things that cannot be killed like serpent wards , DP ulti etc.. And previously stated, Kotl doesn't fit well with rotating supports, pressuring lanes etc.. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
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Ru ba
Serbia1812 Posts
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On July 24 2014 01:18 Sn0_Man wrote: I wouldn't mind Icefrog nerfing initial smoke stocks in trade for maybe very slightly faster cooldown on them. All 3 of the first smokes are actually just way too important right now at the pro level. It might help Vici win a game or two if they did that. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On July 24 2014 01:18 Sn0_Man wrote: I wouldn't mind Icefrog nerfing initial smoke stocks in trade for maybe very slightly faster cooldown on them. All 3 of the first smokes are actually just way too important right now at the pro level. Its not like the stock is really an issue in the first 20 minutes of the game. I would be hard pressed to see any team burn through the initial 3-4 smokes before the stock runs out. It would be nice if they worked more like wards and you got 1 every 4-6 minutes. At least then if you dodged smoke gank, you would know that there are only so many more coming. | ||
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Laserist
Turkey4269 Posts
On July 24 2014 01:18 Sn0_Man wrote: I wouldn't mind Icefrog nerfing initial smoke stocks in trade for maybe very slightly faster cooldown on them. All 3 of the first smokes are actually just way too important right now at the pro level. I am pretty sure the response of pro players to that situation would be 4 protect 1. They don't like common grounds. | ||
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