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General Discussion - Page 4258
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CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2892 Posts
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dtz
5834 Posts
On November 03 2013 09:41 Klonere wrote: "sorry guys, things are a bit fluid around here, we are working on what should be a triple hero patch/event mode/other big feature and it should be out by xyz date. in the meantime you should check out x tournament going on right now!". Because with how Valve works, they can't really confirm if it will be out by xyz date. Valve has a history of delaying things until they are really ready. Sometime for years,months and cancelling things all together. They don't want to raise any expectations and like to release things on their terms. This is just how Icefrog/Valve operates for a very long time. Let's say if Valve has a PR guy. For the past few months, this guy will have to just apologize every week about how there is no hero because some people always want to be communicated with. This PR guy will just be target of abuse from community. See the abuse directed to Cyborgmatt because some people think he is Valve's mouthpiece and is a little bit in the know. And really a big part of this Diretide uproar is just some members of the community asking to be "acknowledged". Diretide had a pretty bad reception last year and pretty sure Valve has the statistics on how popular the mode was. It's embarrassing because this reeks of kids throwing tantrum just to attract attention. Sure there are some who genuinely want a Halloween mode but their amount is dwarfed by those who wants Valve to constantly talk PR to them as if it's gonna solve anything. Perhaps it will make them happy for a few months but in the long run, ultimately it doesn't make any difference and I am sure people knows this. They just want some pandering. | ||
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Nilrem
United States3684 Posts
On November 03 2013 10:01 TheYango wrote: I'm curious what Valve making a blog post saying "guys we're not doing Diretide this year" would have accomplished other than causing people to have a hissy fit a few weeks earlier. Because from my perspective, that's all that would have happened. Had Valve mentioned that the annual event would not be occurring, there would have been a difference overall. When you have a large number of people asking for clarification and expecting something to occur, only to have silence, it makes people more upset. Of course had they announced it, people would have been upset. But I do not see how it would have been the same. PR wise, it would have helped Valve at pretty much no expense. I think having the patches occur during that period did not help either. From my perspective, having a company watch as lots of people expect something while knowing all along it was not going to happen is far worse than the event itself being cancelled. | ||
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Klonere
Ireland4123 Posts
On November 03 2013 10:00 Staboteur wrote: Not the scum of the earth by any stretch, just "...just want(ing) the modicum of communcation with the people who make my favourite game." if this were true, then " I KNOW Valve are trying" wouldn't be. If they're communicating something you already know, they're not communicating effectively at all. It is information you've already gathered by some nonverbal form of communication, and anyone as smart as you are will have had the opportunity to pick up on that communication as well. Valve telling you something you already know wouldn't help anything, and while you could argue that they could tell you -specifics-, you cannot argue that the specifics are necessary. You trust that they're working on something, and whether or not you know what they're working on before it's done is wholly irrelevant. "but they need to tell the community this (in reference to how hard they work)." They don't need to tell the community anything. The spamming and everything is only tangentially related to Diretide. It's a catalyst that is feeding off of other internet problems. Valve saying anything would not have stopped the "problem", it would have caused it to come from something else. Personally I think the spam is kinda hilarious, in the cases where it isn't making us all look like jackasses  er i, personally as a massive fucking nerd who follows anything tangentially related to dota or video game in general know that valve is working hard at making dota2, not communicating with the community i mean is it really unreasonable to tell people who might not follow stuff as closely as me, EVEN a couple of sentences in the first blood blog update "we are switching to a different method of delivering content for dota2. as we move away from the beta stages of dota2 we are focusing on bringing larger, more well thought out updates than the weekly patches of the beta. this will allow us to give the community more high quality, cohesive content in more scheduled manner than before". Again, the assholes would not stop complaining but having those few words somewhere written by someone from Valve rather than a proxy would assuage the concerns of many more dota players who, quite reasonably in the loop as the hardcore ie TL DoTA general. They dont have to say TECHIES ARE BEING WORKED ON HERE'S A PICTURE THEY ARE GOING TO BE DELIVERED IN TWO WEEKS, TWO WEEKS OF TECHIE LESS PUBS LEFT, USE THEM WELL DOTA PLAYERS!!!!! I definitely think even a twitter status could have avoided an enormous amount of the outcry from the community (dota community sucks guys amirite DAE toxic community???????????????) | ||
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Kuroeeah
11696 Posts
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makmeatt
2024 Posts
On November 03 2013 09:29 Nilrem wrote: But it is naive and unrealistic to believe that a company such as Valve has no obligation to serve us, the customers. I'm gonna repeat myself: customers!? On November 03 2013 09:47 Klonere wrote: nobody outside our little bubble gives a fuck about this drama https://www.facebook.com/najibrazak?filter=2 I sincerely hope you're right. | ||
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Klonere
Ireland4123 Posts
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MCDayC
United Kingdom14464 Posts
Also he needs to link the stream to TL. | ||
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canikizu
4860 Posts
On November 03 2013 10:15 Kuroeeah wrote: I really believe you guys causing an uproar are not familiar with how Valve operates sometimes as a company. And I believe you don't know how bad that kind of PR is. There's nothing wrong with doing what Valve is doing right now AND does common sense stuffs that other companies do. Valve don't need to be so hipster about doing stuffs. | ||
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Klonere
Ireland4123 Posts
On November 03 2013 10:18 MCDayC wrote: Doesn't S4 need to do something to his twitch account to get it so viewers can change stream quality? Also he needs to link the stream to TL. he should be featured under whatever contract Alliance have with Twitch, so he should have multiple quality options | ||
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Shaella
United States14828 Posts
It would have been the same thing either way, if they say they're not doing it, a billion questions of why come out. And then people star doing the give diretide shit anyways. Can we just grow up already? Please? | ||
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Nilrem
United States3684 Posts
Semantics but alright, I will explain the point (since you seemed to have ignored the rest of the post). Valve as a company needs us. Without us, the current state of Valve would either change to something different or completely vanish. You treat the people that support you with respect and courtesy so to keep them around. Although good number of people are not, I could consider myself a customer although that is pretty much off topic. On November 03 2013 10:16 Klonere wrote: its going to be hilarious when the event mode does come out (which im pretty sure it will) that all this gief diretide stuff will be for nothing Remains to be seen when it does. With the Winter event slowly coming up, they might as well wait until next year. Of course at this point, I am not expecting any even this year regardless if it is considered an annual event. | ||
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dtz
5834 Posts
On November 03 2013 10:10 Nilrem wrote: Had Valve mentioned that the annual event would not be occurring, there would have been a difference overall. When you have a large number of people asking for clarification and expecting something to occur, only to have silence, it makes people more upset. Of course had they announced it, people would have been upset. But I do not see how it would have been the same. PR wise, it would have helped Valve at pretty much no expense. I think having the patches occur during that period did not help either. From my perspective, having a company watch as lots of people expect something while knowing all along it was not going to happen is far worse than the event itself being cancelled. But the expectation will be mostly community created and never ending. and I am sure we are familiar with how Reddit works so we can try to simulate what happens if there is a PR guy. 1 : Anticipation of Diretide. People are speculating whether Diretide is coming. Expectation rises. PR guy will have to step in here and say " Sorry guys no diretide this year" 2 : People are disappointed. But then they speculate further. "Hey no diretide might mean Valve is preparing a surprise for us! Perhaps a triple hero patch" Expectation rises, PR guy again has to step here and say " Sorry no triple hero patch" 3 : Well but Valve has to be working on something right, so let me assume the release of documentary! PR guy again has to clarify and probably apologizes. Some people in the community are very perfectly capable to talks themselves into expecting. The only thing the PR guy can do is to actually say " No there will be no diretide/triple hero patch/documentary but we are preparing a very big event for Christmas" You see to quell the expectations, they have to promise something definite. And as you all know, promising something is what Valve really dislike to do if you know the way they works. They only like to release things when it's ready regardless of deadline. So like Yango and multiple said, PR blog post is really not gonna make any difference in the long run. What it will end up being is just temporary pandering. | ||
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PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
On November 03 2013 10:09 dtz wrote: Because with how Valve works, they can't really confirm if it will be out by xyz date. Valve has a history of delaying things until they are really ready. Sometime for years,months and cancelling things all together. They don't want to raise any expectations and like to release things on their terms. This is just how Icefrog/Valve operates for a very long time. Let's say if Valve has a PR guy. For the past few months, this guy will have to just apologize every week about how there is no hero because some people always want to be communicated with. This PR guy will just be target of abuse from community. See the abuse directed to Cyborgmatt because some people think he is Valve's mouthpiece and is a little bit in the know. And really a big part of this Diretide uproar is just some members of the community asking to be "acknowledged". Diretide had a pretty bad reception last year and pretty sure Valve has the statistics on how popular the mode was. It's embarrassing because this reeks of kids throwing tantrum just to attract attention. Sure there are some who genuinely want a Halloween mode but their amount is dwarfed by those who wants Valve to constantly talk PR to them as if it's gonna solve anything. Perhaps it will make them happy for a few months but in the long run, ultimately it doesn't make any difference and I am sure people knows this. They just want some pandering. boom case closed. | ||
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Kishin2
United States7534 Posts
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Klonere
Ireland4123 Posts
i lost as timber extremely hard in a tlih a few days ago, wasn't sure how to approach the lane | ||
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Shaella
United States14828 Posts
On November 03 2013 10:28 Klonere wrote: alright lets talk about how you lane an offlane timber vs razor i lost as timber extremely hard in a tlih a few days ago, wasn't sure how to approach the lane you lose Case closed. Seriously Razor is like the biggest douche of a 1v1 vs any Melee, you kinda just lose | ||
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Klonere
Ireland4123 Posts
dotas way too fucking hard | ||
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makmeatt
2024 Posts
On November 03 2013 10:24 Nilrem wrote: Semantics but alright, I will explain the point (since you seemed to have ignored the rest of the post). Valve as a company needs us. Without us, the current state of Valve would either change to something different or completely vanish. You treat the people that support you with respect and courtesy so to keep them around. Although good number of people are not, I could consider myself a customer although that is pretty much off topic. Thanks for tolerance. And yes, as someone said before, hats are most likely what pays the bills for them, so they do need us. It's not like we'd stop playing their game because they weren't telling us about their plans for a longer while, however, and the whole point for which I joined the discussion was that it's ultimately outrageous for all the high and mighty kids to assume they have the right to demand action or answer to their overhyped expectations. All I hear is 'yada yada if you told us what you are doing there would be no problem', bullshit, period. There was no necessity for them to tell us anything (although it sure as fuck would help them if they acknowledged the fact that they called their own event 'annual') and assuming otherwise is just plainly silly in perspective. | ||
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SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
On November 03 2013 10:33 makmeatt wrote: Thanks for tolerance. And yes, as someone said before, hats are most likely what pays the bills for them, so they do need us. It's not like we'd stop playing their game because they weren't telling us about their plans for a longer while, and the whole point for which I joined the discussion was that it's ultimately outrageous for all the high and mighty kids to assume they have the right to demand action or answer to their overhyped expectations. All I hear is 'yada yada if you told us what you are doing there would be no problem', bullshit, period. There was no necessity for them to tell us anything (although it sure as fuck would help them if they acknowledged the fact that they called their own event 'annual') and assuming otherwise is just plainly silly in perspective. Customers is a perfectly viable word for Dota 2 players, whether they pay or not. | ||
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