General Discussion - Page 3744

On August 30 2013 06:46 superstartran wrote:



You keep bringing up only arguments that support your position, without ever acknowledging the other side. It's quite painfully obvious how bias you are.

On August 30 2013 06:44 PrinceXizor wrote:

right. a private ladder. Why complain valve doesn't have one when there are ladders you can join on your own. BW players didn't Bitch about the crap BNET all the time, they understood they should be going to ICCUP, Fish or Brain for example.

On August 30 2013 06:49 Unleashing wrote:

The exact same thing applies to you.

On August 30 2013 06:22 Andr3 wrote:

While not really relevant to this discussion, TMM sux. It just averages the individual MMRs of the people in the team.

Winning/losing is basically +2, -2, +1, -2 all day. People would play TMM if it actually had a normal system of rating teams.

On August 30 2013 06:51 Sn0_Man wrote:
Iunno I see arteezy streaming quite often but primarily at like 10PM-12AM MDT so around 5 in the morning UTC I think.

On August 30 2013 06:52 BurningSera wrote:


yeah i just found out recently that TMM is directly added up from individual mmr, jesus valve fix please.

Honestly I don't mind visible mmr but i dont think any number can remotely represent one's skills in a team game, especially judging by the fact that valve couldn't even get the MM right to satisfy the player base. Ideally you want a mmr separated from solo queueing and stacking, currently solo queue is actually not too bad if the skill levels between the stack didnt have a huge gap. And then even after you made that mmr only showed up for solo queue players, how do you calculate the mmr for some players who mainly play specific role (carry/support), and how do you prevent some people who could only play 5heroes out of 100heroes to grind their mmr high (a 2000mmr storm and proceed to play some 500mmr darkseer to ruin people game, some people literally never play more than 10 heroes out of years of playing dota).

And then how do you deal with the amount of games where the drunk russians (no offense but just an example, we all have been there done that) autolose the game for you from the beginning, sometimes you literally can get 10 autolose games in a row because of some players simply don't want to 'play their best to win', that's the dota culture right there for many players out there, they play the game to relax.

And even if you managed to fixed all the above issues, the skills diversity between regions will ruin the accuracy of the mmr: '1500mmr in sea/china = 2000mmr in na/eu?'.

And then what I fear most about visible mmr is that some players will abuse it, put it in short, too many trashcan players from HoN have showed that they can only play very limited amount of heroes and they seem to think that they have this right of flaming/blaming/griefing so damn hard in the game just because they have their grinded mmr with their stack. Do not want that in dota.

On August 30 2013 06:52 BurningSera wrote:


yeah i just found out recently that TMM is directly added up from individual mmr, jesus valve fix please.

Honestly I don't mind visible mmr but i dont think any number can remotely represent one's skills in a team game, especially judging by the fact that valve couldn't even get the MM right to satisfy the player base. Ideally you want a mmr separated from solo queueing and stacking, currently solo queue is actually not too bad if the skill levels between the stack didnt have a huge gap. And then even after you made that mmr only showed up for solo queue players, how do you calculate the mmr for some players who mainly play specific role (carry/support), and how do you prevent some people who could only play 5heroes out of 100heroes to grind their mmr high (a 2000mmr storm and proceed to play some 500mmr darkseer to ruin people game, some people literally never play more than 10 heroes out of years of playing dota).

And then how do you deal with the amount of games where the drunk russians (no offense but just an example, we all have been there done that) autolose the game for you from the beginning, sometimes you literally can get 10 autolose games in a row because of some players simply don't want to 'play their best to win', that's the dota culture right there for many players out there, they play the game to relax.

And even if you managed to fixed all the above issues, the skills diversity between regions will ruin the accuracy of the mmr: '1500mmr in sea/china = 2000mmr in na/eu?'.

And then what I fear most about visible mmr is that some players will abuse it, put it in short, too many trashcan players from HoN have showed that they can only play very limited amount of heroes and they seem to think that they have this right of flaming/blaming/griefing so damn hard in the game just because they have their grinded mmr with their stack. Do not want that in dota.

On August 30 2013 06:50 superstartran wrote:



I've acknowledged that there are problems with bringing in a ranking system, and yet no one else from the other side accepts that there are positives to bringing in a ranking system. In fact, TheYango has basically attempted to discredit everything about ranking systems in general, even though I've always acknowledged the fact that there should be a compromise and not some ghetto system like we have right now.


And ICCUP sucks, as well as IXDL for various reasons.

On August 30 2013 06:54 PrinceXizor wrote:

WE HAVE a compromise: go play private ladders. Valve even makes it easy to set up.

if you don't like the current ladders, go make one of your own. If you aren't willing to fix your perceived problem, and are still willing to complain about all the options you are presented, then you won't be happy with anything.

On August 30 2013 06:27 TheEmulator wrote:
It's not about wanting to see improvement, or waving around my e-penis. It's about being a competitive individual who gets enjoyment out of having specific goals to reach in a competitive environment. What's wrong about that?

On August 30 2013 06:46 superstartran wrote:



You keep bringing up only arguments that support your position, without ever acknowledging the other side. It's quite painfully obvious how biased you are.


The difference between #1 and #10 isn't great, but the difference between #1 and say #100 is astronomical. And the #100 player isn't some scrub, he's pretty good, but he's not someone a pro team would look at. The reason why pro teams almost never change players in DotA is because there has almost never been a reliable way to weed out players without actually having to play with them or go through the painful process of watching a replay. If there was a number attached, pro teams could easily just weed out everyone below top 50 and go from there.






Polls don't support my argument? Must discredit them!

On August 30 2013 06:59 canikizu wrote:

I agree.

I don't think most people who play rank in SC2 or LoL want to be the next Flash or Doublelift or something. What ranking does is to put people who have the same mindset together. In normal games, people join the game with different attitude, some are drunk, some are trolling, some have 15min to spare, some stack.... I don't want to play games like that, win or lose it always feel like a waste of time.

Of course rank is not the best answer of everything, but it's equally stupid to think that if you can't have the best answer, you shouldn't aim for the 2nd best at all.

On August 30 2013 07:01 Yoshi- wrote:


Okay lets make a poll, lets ask 1000 nazi what they think about immigrants, then lets extrapolate that data onto the entire population, ohh look seems like everyone hates immigrants.

Or in a few weeks there is election in germany, if you look at some internet polls of the big newspaper you see parties that most probably will between 1 and 5 percent, having above 20%

A poll is worth shit, if the people voting in the poll don't represnt the majority of people.


So should I explain you anything else that you didn't understand in school and want me to explain? Maybe how babies are made?

And fyi I never said that I was against a ranking, I am just againt terrible arguments.

On August 30 2013 06:56 superstartran wrote:



Valve does not make it easy to setup IHL games. You must be fucking high or something. You have to go out of your way through a website or some ghetto client, setup the game, get the correct settings, set the correct server, then make sure all 10 people are not afk.

This is all on top of either abusive admins, or people who are friends with admins that attempt to get you banned like every 3 games because you stomped them middle or something silly.

On August 30 2013 06:53 TheEmulator wrote:
I would just like to mention while I want a ranking system personally I think it's a bad idea in general.