EPTNBA Playoffs 09 - Page 152
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kdog3683
United States916 Posts
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vol
United States52 Posts
On May 01 2009 12:25 vol wrote:]Magic dominated w/o Howard or Lee. Just another testament to the depth of the team. I bet the whole team is gonna sit around and watch Bulls/Celtics G7. On May 01 2009 12:31 Ace wrote: Orlando doesn't have depth don't kid yourself. Their bench players are barely notable for delivering. On May 02 2009 01:05 vol wrote: They actually have been noted many times for delivering on many occasions, in fact they have been noted by almost all the ESPN analysts as the main reason Orlando was able to keep one of the best records in the league. They get no attention in most national highlight shows because they happen to have one of the best players in the NBA on their team. I am in no way belittling Howard's contribution but it is definitely not a Wade/Heat situation (as proven by their records.) They showed what they are capable of last night so the more doubters the better position it puts us in anyways. On May 02 2009 01:14 Ace wrote: Ok I'll keep doubting then  I called it back on page 39. Keep on doubting and we will keep on winning. | ||
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shmay
United States1091 Posts
On June 01 2009 04:14 decafchicken wrote: Hadn't kobe already won 3 championships by now at lebrons age? comeon dude, that isn't fair. kobe immediately went to a championship contender with the most dominant player of all time. soon came one of the greatest coaches of all time, who happened to be a master at handling stars with supernova egos like kobe and shaq. he was dealt pocket aces. lebron was dealt 3 9 offsuit. it was a shit show of a team. he has single handedly turned it into a powerhouse. look at the cavs before and after lebron. and mike brown may be a good coach, but he pales in comparison to PJ. fortune has played a large part in the lakers' resurgence as well. let's not forget the lakers' transformation when PJ came back. then it took a hulk-like transformation of bynum to turn them into contenders (he was playing really really well at the time). then santa gave him gasol, and left fisher, ariza, and shannon brown in his stocking. the fact that kobe went to such a good, and lebron such a crappy team is a testament to lebron's early superiority as well. kobe was traded for VLADE DIVAC, straight up. vlade divac people. the cavs wouldnt trade lebron for the entire hornets team. kobe is a great player, but he has gotten really, really lucky (in terms of the teammates and coaches. yeah, lebron has gotten genetically luckier, but let's not go there). yes, some of the luck he makes himself, but that doesn't account for the huge discrepancy between his and lebron's. lebron is on an entirely different level. that's not a knock against kobe. again, he is great. not that lebron is perfect, either -- he could, perhaps even should, have won this championship. bottom line: if you're picking teams, and you take kobe over lebron, you're fucking insane | ||
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rei
United States3594 Posts
On June 01 2009 02:04 no_comprender wrote: rei i don't even understand half of what you're saying and it's spelled lebron wtf. anyway the gold medal game was won more by dwyane wade than anyone else and just because kobe took some key shots doesn't mean he's the best player. he's the best clutch shooter though and clearly wanted the responsibility more than anyone else. lebron not dominating those games says just as much for his willingness to defer than kobe being better. they could've given it to anyone on that team, they can all score. there's no way lebron pissess off kobe royally by taking the ball out of his hands when they all know kobe considers himself the best and wants his peers to know it. besides most media types point to lebron's improvements THIS season as the things that vaulted him to being the best Well i'm just pointing out that Wade, Anthony, and many more with Lebron tried and failed at international basketball, whereas with Kobe they won. Same core players + Kobe = gold in the Olympics. and I only argue with facts, not supposes, you can dispute my interpretations, but not the facts. | ||
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shmay
United States1091 Posts
and kobe played really badly this olympics, save for the last 4 minutes of the last game. you really think that team wouldn't have won without kobe? | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On June 01 2009 00:34 levels wrote: the fact that he's not a sore loser is what makes MJ a man? wow sorry, but there's better reasoning than that. There are better reasons, but there's approximately 0 guys in the NBA that would still say that right after getting crushed. Maybe Shaq would, but not at that age. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On June 01 2009 05:43 vol wrote: I called it back on page 39. Keep on doubting and we will keep on winning. Orlando's bench still played like shit. What's your point? | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On June 01 2009 05:48 shmay wrote: comeon dude, that isn't fair. kobe immediately went to a championship contender with the most dominant player of all time. soon came one of the greatest coaches of all time, who happened to be a master at handling stars with supernova egos like kobe and shaq. he was dealt pocket aces. lebron was dealt 3 9 offsuit. it was a shit show of a team. he has single handedly turned it into a powerhouse. look at the cavs before and after lebron. and mike brown may be a good coach, but he pales in comparison to PJ. fortune has played a large part in the lakers' resurgence as well. let's not forget the lakers' transformation when PJ came back. then it took a hulk-like transformation of bynum to turn them into contenders (he was playing really really well at the time). then santa gave him gasol, and left fisher, ariza, and shannon brown in his stocking. the fact that kobe went to such a good, and lebron such a crappy team is a testament to lebron's early superiority as well. kobe was traded for VLADE DIVAC, straight up. vlade divac people. the cavs wouldnt trade lebron for the entire hornets team. kobe is a great player, but he has gotten really, really lucky (in terms of the teammates and coaches. yeah, lebron has gotten genetically luckier, but let's not go there). yes, some of the luck he makes himself, but that doesn't account for the huge discrepancy between his and lebron's. lebron is on an entirely different level. that's not a knock against kobe. again, he is great. not that lebron is perfect, either -- he could, perhaps even should, have won this championship. bottom line: if you're picking teams, and you take kobe over lebron, you're fucking insane I'd take Kobe also. If you want to talk about who is luckier - let's not forget how lucky Lebron was. Kobe in his first few seasons in the league was on a pretty good Lakers team with Eddie Jones and Nick Van Exel. He was coming off the bench his first few years and didn't even start in 50 games until his 3rd. Have we forgotten how beastly Eddie Jones was back then and how much Kobe was "good" but nowhere near "great"? Nobody expected Kobe to be this good. Lebron came into the league with the golden key to pretty much do what he pleased. He had everything given to him because his team sucked so bad. Obviously unless Cleveland management was dumb as the Clippers they would have to give him help eventually. Kobe didn't have that luxury once Shaq left because the Lakers were still pretty good - too good to go into rebuilding mode but also not bad enough that they are always contenders: The equivalent status of being in Hell for an NBA team. Kobe did not have Lebron's size for sure. However if you want to talk about who was more talented that's kind of a toss up. Kobe has always had insane amounts of raw basketball talent and IQ. Unlike Lebron he had to wait many years for it to be noticed and that's where people keep getting this "argument" wrong. If you try to compare Lebron to Kobe based on who did what early in their careers just remember Kobe never had the chance but still has 3 rings. If you want to find someone similar to Lebron early in their careers go look at MJ. They have very similar paths and at the age of 24 is anyone going to doubt MJ was better than Lebron by leaps and bounds? | ||
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il0seonpurpose
Korea (South)5638 Posts
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vol
United States52 Posts
On June 01 2009 08:50 Ace wrote: Orlando's bench still played like shit. What's your point? You just proved my point. Pretty cool when shitty teams win championships AMIRITE. | ||
OneOther
United States10774 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On June 01 2009 09:25 vol wrote: You just proved my point. Pretty cool when shitty teams win championships AMIRITE. what? that answer doesn't even make sense? How does that mean Orlando is a deep team? explain. | ||
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
On June 01 2009 09:19 il0seonpurpose wrote: Ace, I disagree with Kobe having less talent then Lebron; wasn't Lebron being posted on Sports Illustrated by the time he was in middle school? um, so was Kobe? do you even realize that the entire reason LeBron got noticed so early was BECAUSE of Kobe. Kobe was literally the biggest high school phenom to ever play basketball at that point. He pretty much started the wave of HS people going into the NBA and it was only after Kobe that scouts really started looking at high school people. Kobe was like a pioneer. He was the bigget HS icon at the time, but LeBron was clearly #1 overall... I know that there were other HS people before Kobe but nobody as nationally recognized. | ||
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il0seonpurpose
Korea (South)5638 Posts
On June 01 2009 11:48 Ace wrote: what? that answer doesn't even make sense? How does that mean Orlando is a deep team? explain. Orlando's bench Battie: Pts 4.8 Reb 3.6 Ast 0.4 Gortat: Pts 3.8 Reb 4.5 Ast 0.2 Pietrus: Pts 9.4 Reb 3.3 Ast 1.2 Reddick: Pts 6.0 Reb 1.7 Ast 1.1 Lue: Pts 4.2 Reb 1. Ast 1.4 *Lee: Pts 8.4 Reb 2.3 Ast 1.2 Johnson: Pts 5.3 Reb 1.8 Ast 2.5 * Sometimes starts Their bench isn't that bad; Pietrus and Gortat have really stepped up; Johnson and Battie aren't that bad either. Reddick is gone once again Also, Nelson could come back for the finals. | ||
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no_comprender
Australia91 Posts
mj and lebron had more similar paths? mj went to college for 3 years... not that similar. the comparison is not between mj and lebron anyway (although it eventually might be). all this stuff about who's been 'luckier' in their careers, i'm only comparing achievements to try to give a frame of reference to you guys that don't see what i see in lebron's effect on a basketball game. all i'm saying is that right now lebron does more for a basketball team than kobe. he affects the game for more comprehensively than kobe with a more rounded skillset. his deficiencies skillwise as a scorer are erased by his freakish athleticism. if you break down every basketball ability lebron is better or equal to kobe at almost everything. you'd give kobe 1on1 defense against guards and jumpshooting outright, but that's basically basically it, lebron is a better help defender, better passer, makes his teammates better, better in the open floor, better at getting to and scoring in the paint, better at creating mismatches (so more often has just an almost unfair advantage), and just as good in the clutch even when the entire defense knows what he's going to do. i want kobe taking a 3 to win it, but i want lebron in the 4th quarter. and to top it off he's a better teammate. it doesn't matter what they did before because the comparison is between them right now, in my opinion you only need to watch games to see that lebron is the superior player. the only reason i can think you'd say kobe is better is that you've been used to calling him the best player in the nba for most of this decade and don't want to give the title to lebron while kobe is still close to his prime. i really don't get it, how do you pick him over lebron | ||
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igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
On June 01 2009 12:11 Xeris wrote: um, so was Kobe? do you even realize that the entire reason LeBron got noticed so early was BECAUSE of Kobe. Kobe was literally the biggest high school phenom to ever play basketball at that point. He pretty much started the wave of HS people going into the NBA and it was only after Kobe that scouts really started looking at high school people. Kobe was like a pioneer. He was the bigget HS icon at the time, but LeBron was clearly #1 overall... I know that there were other HS people before Kobe but nobody as nationally recognized. And I've deduced that Kobe might be one of your favorite players. But have you ever heard of Kevin Garnett? Also, iloseonpurpose, your statement is confusing. Are you saying Kobe has more talent, but Lebron has more talent? | ||
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OneOther
United States10774 Posts
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HonestTea
5007 Posts
On June 01 2009 12:11 Xeris wrote: um, so was Kobe? do you even realize that the entire reason LeBron got noticed so early was BECAUSE of Kobe. Kobe was literally the biggest high school phenom to ever play basketball at that point. He pretty much started the wave of HS people going into the NBA and it was only after Kobe that scouts really started looking at high school people. Kobe was like a pioneer. He was the bigget HS icon at the time, but LeBron was clearly #1 overall... I know that there were other HS people before Kobe but nobody as nationally recognized. Moses Malone would like a word with you | ||
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
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Monoxide
Canada1190 Posts
On June 01 2009 09:27 OneOther wrote: kobe's finesse and arsenal/skillset are the best in the league. hands down. he was also a better defender than his peers but lebron really stepped it up this season. we haven't seen the end of lebron james because he might still be getting better, but i am not ready to call james the clear best player yet. especially with a game on the line. kobe's hands are where most of nba coaches would feel the safest. I completely agree. | ||
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