Templar sniping help?

On February 19 2009 07:06 stack wrote:
could try maelstrom technique

On February 19 2009 07:06 stack wrote:
could try maelstrom technique

On February 19 2009 07:19 likeaboss wrote:
maelstrom........... ok guys let me give you a little tip im around b- gamer so please dont give me rediculous ideas.... I mean maybe that lx opening that he did on bluestorm but I think they get storm very late to get mael I am not sure. I am just looking for some tips to help

On February 19 2009 07:19 likeaboss wrote:
maelstrom........... ok guys let me give you a little tip im around b- gamer so please dont give me rediculous ideas.... I mean maybe that lx opening that he did on bluestorm but I think they get storm very late to get mael I am not sure. I am just looking for some tips to help

On February 19 2009 07:44 AttackZerg wrote:
Ok if your a b- gamer then the concept is simple.

Protect your templar.

How, well 3-4 archon timing/attack -> third/cannon/storm -> dt drop in main -> 10ish gates -> tripple forge.

If you aren't b- then you will need more details then that.

On February 19 2009 07:19 likeaboss wrote:
maelstrom........... ok guys let me give you a little tip im around b- gamer so please dont give me rediculous ideas.... I mean maybe that lx opening that he did on bluestorm but I think they get storm very late to get mael I am not sure. I am just looking for some tips to help

On February 19 2009 07:53 Chill wrote:
What do you want people to tell you? I don't understand what you want from this thread.

On February 19 2009 07:48 Liquid`Drone wrote:
while normally the theorycraft tips are dumb and stupid, maelstrom actually is a good counter to this. theres a certain timing window to it all tho, and I can't explain it, but experiment with making da after third-fourth-fifth templar, mael after storm.

http://www.battlereports.com/viewreplays.php?replaynum=33316

its not a perfect example as he doesnt open hydra, but the timing is kinda similar and it illustrates the same point : it becomes impossible for him to pick off templars in my zealot templar archon army with mutas when I have a DA in the group. more than that tho, its a very cool game :D

On February 19 2009 08:12 Wonders wrote:
Here's a suggestion, although it'd be really hard to pull off: keep corsairs over the templars so that the zerg can't click on them.

On February 19 2009 08:13 Chill wrote:

... Are you serious?

On February 19 2009 08:12 Wonders wrote:
Here's a suggestion, although it'd be really hard to pull off: keep corsairs over the templars so that the zerg can't click on them.

On February 19 2009 08:23 Liquid`Drone wrote:
haha gary when did lzgamer use mael against you? :D (he is the zerg in the replay I posted)

On February 19 2009 10:11 dragonmax wrote:
lift your buildings over the templars

On February 19 2009 11:04 likeaboss wrote:
I will gladly play anyone questioning my skill i compete regularly with b- level gamers but never have the time to play enough games in a season which is why i say i am AROUND a b- level. Chill if your a forum regulator maybe you should spend some time doing so instead of filling my thread with wasteful comments. I was simply just asking if theres a rule of thumb you guys use like not to move out for third base without four goons or two archons to protect temps. This has happened to me alot lately and its been bothering me and I just simply asked for small tips reguarding it.... I am not asking how to deal with hydra muta...... I am simply asking if you guys choose to hide temps or roll out of base with a x amount of units so your templars are safe. I was simply stating my skill so you guys dont say stupid things like "use mael" or "dont let mutas hit yoru templar" I was just trying to help let you guys know I have a basic grasp of this game so I wanted some higher level comments

edit: i do like mael in some games but only when I see fuckload of muta or late game pvz. this is my worst matchup so I shouldnt give any tips or ideas but these are when I see fit. I remember lx used a mael opening on bluestorm in pgl this season but he delayed his storm because of it if anyone has a link to the vod it would be great.

edit2: actually read everyones post now and a tad angrier will be on iccup on id nrg.bongmicro feel free to msg for game since many of you seemed to be more concerned with rank than tips

On February 19 2009 06:57 likeaboss wrote:
I am curious because I am a pretty skilled player

On February 19 2009 08:12 Wonders wrote:
Here's a suggestion, although it'd be really hard to pull off: keep corsairs over the templars so that the zerg can't click on them.

On February 19 2009 11:24 YoUr_KiLLeR wrote:

obviously this isnt the case.

On February 19 2009 11:04 likeaboss wrote:
I will gladly play anyone questioning my skill i compete regularly with b- level gamers but never have the time to play enough games in a season which is why i say i am AROUND a b- level. Chill if your a forum regulator maybe you should spend some time doing so instead of filling my thread with wasteful comments. I was simply just asking if theres a rule of thumb you guys use like not to move out for third base without four goons or two archons to protect temps. This has happened to me alot lately and its been bothering me and I just simply asked for small tips reguarding it.... I am not asking how to deal with hydra muta...... I am simply asking if you guys choose to hide temps or roll out of base with a x amount of units so your templars are safe. I was simply stating my skill so you guys dont say stupid things like "use mael" or "dont let mutas hit yoru templar" I was just trying to help let you guys know I have a basic grasp of this game so I wanted some higher level comments

edit: i do like mael in some games but only when I see fuckload of muta or late game pvz. this is my worst matchup so I shouldnt give any tips or ideas but these are when I see fit. I remember lx used a mael opening on bluestorm in pgl this season but he delayed his storm because of it if anyone has a link to the vod it would be great.

edit2: actually read everyones post now and a tad angrier will be on iccup on id nrg.bongmicro feel free to msg for game since many of you seemed to be more concerned with rank than tips

On February 19 2009 08:16 imperfect wrote:
this has also been bothering me quite a bit T-T

a lot of korean zergs emulate this, and it works for them maybe because i suck, but also because i dont know what to do.

so are sairs the way to go? I've been trying to incorporate constant corsair pump into my PvZ, and it worked to some extent; i'm still trying to perfect its use. it's really hard to get the right timings down for corsairs, zealot leg upgrade, goon, obs, and storm T_T

dragoons? this used to be what i resorted to, but it doesn't work because it delays my first push a lot, and by then, enough hydras are present. however, i found my push with zeal/chon with ht+dragoons is a lot more potent at taking down expansions because of dragoons, but with a slower third for me.

archons? it's so hard to keep templars in range of archons T-T even then, mutas take dmg and snipe.


looking forward to some great replies!
PS maelstrom is pretty cool ^.-v i used it successfully only once

On February 19 2009 12:51 Cloud wrote:


Well... you dont fast push vs a 5 hatch hydra build. And if you dont have dragoons, the zerg doesnt even need mutas at all to snipe your high templars.

Corsairs are only in case he opened with mutas and not hydras, although corsairs vs a 5 hatch hydra build can give him trouble if he is only on one gas and screw up a bit with his usual timing since he has to get ovie speed with very little gas and his 3rd can be pretty harassable. Which may buy you good time for storm and a quick 3rd.

But yeah, as chill said, dont expect some magical formula to win easy vs this.

On February 19 2009 11:25 likeaboss wrote:
hmmmmm killer 1;1 ill be on iccup op nrg) come your picking a fight when i just simply ask advice but come

On February 19 2009 17:39 YoUr_KiLLeR wrote:

are you capable of making a normal strategy thread that talks about strategy and not iccup rankings and challenges? everyone else seems to be able to do it.

On February 19 2009 18:13 AttackZerg wrote:



The problem is because he believes he is a decent player that he is above getting routine answers for a really fucking obvious question. If tech switches weren't strong then pro gamers (zergs) would rely on them zvp so often.

Now if he is actually an form of a decent player, he could watch bisu/free/jangbi/best and stork vods where they beat pro zergs (umm jaedong vs free on athena, jaedong tech switches .....) and watch how it is done. There is a reason, ret/oystein/shauni/octoberzerg/idra/infernal and alot of other good players don't post strategy questions .... its easier to learn from watching someone do it then be told about it.

On February 19 2009 07:06 tdotkrayz wrote:
Dark Archon + maelstrom + psi storm = 1100 minerals/gas wasted for zerg. 200/200 for you.

On February 19 2009 11:04 likeaboss wrote:
I will gladly play anyone questioning my skill i compete regularly with b- level gamers but never have the time to play enough games in a season which is why i say i am AROUND a b- level. Chill if your a forum regulator maybe you should spend some time doing so instead of filling my thread with wasteful comments. I was simply just asking if theres a rule of thumb you guys use like not to move out for third base without four goons or two archons to protect temps. This has happened to me alot lately and its been bothering me and I just simply asked for small tips reguarding it.... I am not asking how to deal with hydra muta...... I am simply asking if you guys choose to hide temps or roll out of base with a x amount of units so your templars are safe. I was simply stating my skill so you guys dont say stupid things like "use mael" or "dont let mutas hit yoru templar" I was just trying to help let you guys know I have a basic grasp of this game so I wanted some higher level comments

edit: i do like mael in some games but only when I see fuckload of muta or late game pvz. this is my worst matchup so I shouldnt give any tips or ideas but these are when I see fit. I remember lx used a mael opening on bluestorm in pgl this season but he delayed his storm because of it if anyone has a link to the vod it would be great.

edit2: actually read everyones post now and a tad angrier will be on iccup on id nrg.bongmicro feel free to msg for game since many of you seemed to be more concerned with rank than tips

On February 20 2009 06:26 MasterReY wrote:



wtf. one single dark archon already costs 250/200 then you have to research maelstorm which is 100/100 i think and you have to make the temps and research psi-storm.

ok lets assume you already have templar and psi-storm, which costs most of the gas even then its STILL 350/300.

i dont get ur numbers there

On February 20 2009 06:35 NoobsOfWrath wrote:


Use mael ain't a stupid thing to say. It's incredibly effective. He will have to stack his mutas to snipe HT. He will have to use quite a few to do so without losing the mutas first vs a few goons/a couple archons. 1 maelstrom destroying all the muta will COMPLETELY turn the game around. I know this was done in a progame recently I just can't remember which; I watched it on stream. It's not that much out of the way. You're turtling, waiting for X units to combat the mass hydras, you've made some sairs early presumably and you followed with a few dts checking shit out, you can research maelstrom after a few HT and make the DA shortly before moving out because mael requires very little energy

On February 20 2009 07:37 Shauni wrote:
I'm gonna be nice and give you a few alternatives.

1. Keep your sairs ALIVE so they can accompany you when you move out in midgame.
2. Make a dark archon with maelstrom. If anything, it works better at high levels than lower because of the incredibly good muta micro. I've had success with this against A- level koreans so don't give me that shit 'im b- this is noob theorycrafting' .
3. Just move your army slowly and keep the templars near archons and ranged goons.
4. Don't pressure, play stationary defensively while grabbing exps. That way it'll be more difficult for the mutas to snipe.

On February 20 2009 07:24 MasterReY wrote:


Does anyone know in which game that was.
I want to see it !

On February 20 2009 08:02 Amber[LighT] wrote:


If you actually bothered to watch either of his games you would actually know that he never even sair teched. You can't possibly make suggestions if you didn't watch the games. He did tip number 3 and I've done it plenty of times as well, you can't just magically protect ur templar just by putting your templar closer to dragons//archons. And he didn't pressure in either game, which was the problem IMO. He never did any damage and it allowed the Z to just set up attacks to snipe templar.

Honestly bongmicro, I can't give you a good suggestion cuz I'm a victim to this bs as well when I go for the zlot speed +1 push. Personally I don't even like the build and I tech sair more frequently, so it's a bit of an alternative. If I see the spire going up I'll just make 4-5 sairs and try to keep him busy on those so I can just tech elsewhere. The sair harass can be effective, but it just doesn't fall into some peoples style of play, and you seem to not like corsairs based upon the games.

On February 20 2009 07:31 infinity2k9 wrote:
Anyone know why mael isnt used much? Can't justify the cost? Even though i think it would..

On February 20 2009 09:30 fast ball player wrote:

There's a lot of copying each other that goes on in BW, not a huge amount of originality, including among pros. There's just this idea that DAs are no good so you don't often see them. The same thing was true of arbiters for many years before they took off and now are almost standard in pvt. SC is still evolving and I have no doubt in the future toss will use DAs a lot more, and zerg will use queens a lot more, and some other developments.

DAs really are useful. I've been messing around on iccup with them. One mael with temps or archons around and any group of mutas dies instantly. Then if you micro well you can keep the DA alive and use it against hydras, lings, whatever throughout the rest of the game. The best is if there's a close-together mass of hydras, mael, storm.

A lot of people will think I'm kidding, but I've even been able to use Mind Control effectively at C level. Lurkers are very strong vs lings and hydras. Burrow one behind some cannons at an exp and it's impossible for z to crack with lings. This is stronger than what ppl usually take with MC, ultras. And if it's lategame and you can steal a defiler and get off a good plague.. GG.

I've also won legitimate games at C mind controlling scvs and making tanks, but that's a story for another thread.

On February 20 2009 09:30 fast ball player wrote:

There's a lot of copying each other that goes on in BW, not a huge amount of originality, including among pros. There's just this idea that DAs are no good so you don't often see them. The same thing was true of arbiters for many years before they took off and now are almost standard in pvt. SC is still evolving and I have no doubt in the future toss will use DAs a lot more, and zerg will use queens a lot more, and some other developments.

DAs really are useful. I've been messing around on iccup with them. One mael with temps or archons around and any group of mutas dies instantly. Then if you micro well you can keep the DA alive and use it against hydras, lings, whatever throughout the rest of the game. The best is if there's a close-together mass of hydras, mael, storm.

A lot of people will think I'm kidding, but I've even been able to use Mind Control effectively at C level. Lurkers are very strong vs lings and hydras. Burrow one behind some cannons at an exp and it's impossible for z to crack with lings. This is stronger than what ppl usually take with MC, ultras. And if it's lategame and you can steal a defiler and get off a good plague.. GG.

I've also won legitimate games at C mind controlling scvs and making tanks, but that's a story for another thread.

On February 20 2009 11:25 v-.-v wrote:
What is the build order for muta into mass hydra? I tried to experience it, but toss can get sair faster and force you go hydra first. They can easily counter muta with sairs, then push out with HT. Then I'm forced to go hydra into lurker contain and mass expand.

On February 20 2009 12:03 ExSoldier wrote:

if im not mistaken you go standard 3 hatch spire and make scourge to drop those sairs. Make 2 more hatches[while pumping drones] and den and just keep pumping hydras and make mutas when you think you can snipe

On February 20 2009 07:24 MasterReY wrote:


Does anyone know in which game that was.
I want to see it !

On February 20 2009 12:42 thunk wrote:


I think it's Reach versus Roro, in the latest WL's newspost.

On February 20 2009 09:39 Amber[LighT] wrote:


Post replays? I usually would never even bother researching MC.

On February 20 2009 08:08 DreaM)XeRO wrote:

Jesus christ
REACH VS FUCKING CHOJJA UZOO MSL SEMIFINALS GAME FUCKING 5
OMG

On February 20 2009 22:03 likeaboss wrote:
Ok since so many are suggesting maelstrom can someone please post an effective replay of EARLY game mael because I would love to see it. I have done it following mass mutas but after seeing a hydra opening show me someone going mael. I would love to steal the build and listen but I do not think I will get many takers. I am cooled off now and done with this thead I just believe the sheepwagon came when one person disputed my skill and then the thread derailed about that. It is just annoying. If you really want to question it go write a blog or make another thread but I was just looking for any tips or tricks you guys use. Not nessiscarly an ultimate non fail idea just something that maybe I do not consider or am watchful of. I am sorry for getting so angry but I post replays of my worst matchup in need and you all try to flame and its pretty annoying when I put myself out there and you just troll me. I was stating my relative skill so I wouldnt get any stupid comments or useless suggestions(which I did). I am sorry for being angry but when people feel the need to beat on their chest and see whose more manly it bothers me. BTW I did not see any of the shit talkers come play me after running their mouths. Thank you to a few of the helpful tips/sympathy of losing your templars as well.

On February 20 2009 20:24 Supah wrote:
I watched the pvz and didnt see mind control doing much for you in that game tbh. Lots of general protoss gayness though.

edit: watched the pvt as well. don't really know the matchup but it seemed to me that the terran sucked (I heard he is b- but he played bad) and got stuck with his tanks sieged up without vulture support 1 billion times and lost battles he should have won easily. Going tanks was cute and all but do you really think they were cost effective that game?

On February 19 2009 07:19 likeaboss wrote:
maelstrom........... ok guys let me give you a little tip im around b- gamer so please dont give me rediculous ideas.... I mean maybe that lx opening that he did on bluestorm but I think they get storm very late to get mael I am not sure. I am just looking for some tips to help

On February 21 2009 01:25 likeaboss wrote:
noobswrath im not gonna even dignify your gay post with a response besides "fuck you". I am sure eri would rape me I am not saying I am great jesus christ I am just saying I am somewhat competant in this game...... If you fucking read my post instead of just trolled you wuold realize that I said a replay of mael when the person OPENS HYDRA. you fucking blind piece of shit. dragoon you illiterate mother fucker i said for about the 10th time AROUND B I can get b- for sure just never had enough time or urge to get it up there. Can someone please close this thread as nothing helpful has come besides a few tips in which I say thank you

It's not like you can't use it against nonmutas either. And you aint B- if you can't tell when a Zerg is making 11 mutas after hydras

On February 21 2009 02:01 likeaboss wrote:
louder reps plz :D long time no see friend and i would love to see some builds but i feel mael archons n storm is so gas heavy so storm has to come late but if you male properly i guess you dont need storm that early on

On February 21 2009 03:19 likeaboss wrote:
listen here you fucking social reject dont fucking talk like you know me i have no fucking clue who you are and you dont know a thing about me. your turning this into a personal flame fest and instead of fucking giving advice your coming at my fucking neck. if your so good ill be on iccup for another hour op nrg you sad fuck. i would love to see you fucking faggoty frail ass in person keep running your fucking mouth you fucking pussy. kid so tough and strong behind the monitor. keep eating your spinach you fucking frail piece of shit n come see me if im such a shit talking excuse making noob who has never played you