I think the scout should be buffed, it's literally a joke unit that only gets used by noobs (like me)
Commonly people think they should just start with speed\cost less\take less build time and I think those are all very good ideas, but I also feel like more can be done here to fix the overlap with the corsair
For the cost, it could do with a -25-50 mineral decrease if it's build time stays so long.
Corsairs have disruption web ---> Instantly making them more versatile and powerful than scouts vs ground when they should be classed as a anti-siege or against mass air strats like mutalisks and wraiths (Protip, scouts don't even see as far as corsairs until they get a fleetbeacon upgade? What's with that?)
Give them +2 base sight range so they can flyby and see everything
Give them a .5 movespeed buff ---> leaving them slower than all other anti air until speed pops thus making them same speed as other flyers.
I propose they are rewarded for staying true to their namesakes and giving them a powerful edge over other units for scouting purposes, by giving them a change in HP , -50hull hp for +35 shields to maximize skilled flybys as well as rewarding proper shield recharging\ might even see some battery plays with harass?
As for their attack, it can also use some buffs Giving a +2 ground dmg buff will let them 5 shot drones and 4 shot probes\lings ( a scouting unit) instead of the disgusting time it takes now in 6 shots vs drones and 5 vs probes\marines while the scv retains its high hp buffer,
Finally , the amount of time it actually takes to produce a 'scout' is pretty memeworthy..
Reduce it's build time to be 38 seconds like a wraiths, Ensuring a micro intensive air battle if they fly into eachother, (Wraiths will escape to be repaired, while scouts will not be able to.)
Tell me your thoughts plz ..
Poll: Should the scout see a change?
No. (47)
58%
Yes. (30)
37%
No voting without a debate please (4)
5%
81 total votes
Your vote: Should the scout see a change?
(Vote): No voting without a debate please (Vote): Yes. (Vote): No.
I feel like the problem with buffing the scout is you walk a fine line with making units with overlapping roles obsolete and just adding useless buffs that dont accomplish anything. If there is an elegant solution I'd be all ears.
They do have a lot of overlaps, mostly because they made the corsair so insanely good at everything.
The antiground buff\sightrange buff will make the scout play alot differently than the corsair since it will be able to pick off those pesky 1 marine \ling scouts rather quickly as well as overlords, thus giving a major scouting advantage to the toss , mixed with a max hp nerf it will be alot more like a wraith in terms of play
En masse it will still have the burst damage to pick off capital ships\\ vs carriers vs the corsair which will still be the go to vs muta\scourge gameplay since scouts cant outrun either of them early, it will take 26 shots from a muta to pick off a scout or 3 volleys of a mutagroup+ ovie vs the 9 it will take to **1** mutalisk.. **take into account muta kiting vs scout moving attack micro games that happen here as well as the all important splash damage** Also take into account that 2 scourge will down the scout while 1 hit will allow the mutas to go ape.
The main thing it needs is the speed\vs ground buff so it can harass undefended mineral lines a little bit, goliaths, turrets as well as EMP will all be amplified in usage, even though they are used in almost all PvT's anyway..
Blizz would break the game beyond any recognition if they tried to implement any change/buff/nerf whatsoever. Better to encourage them to not touch the game. That's no good news for scouts but the game is fine w/o them.
The scout by the time became a special role unit, you see many such unused units by a date`s standards may become useful in certain situtations (like queens, ghosts, etc. hell, even the arbiter was considered useless a long time ago), so I`d leave as it is and let players figure out when it is beneficial to use.
There are units that aren't very common. Scouts can be used to proper effect. There have been PvZ games with early scouts, as well as PvT ones. Scouts are good against things like a camping Protoss who goes carriers, and against guardians who try to siege your expansion. They have a niche use and can be strong in numbers.
The only change I'd like to see is putting the scout speed upgrade on the cybernetics core. Buffing anything else would make them too imbalanced in PvZ. 5 scouts with +1 air weapons 1 shot a drone. 7 of them 1 shot an overlord.
One thing also to consider could be a scout that's also a detector, with maybe some nerfs to hitpoints or damage. It would affect all matchups but probably in different ways.
It would potentially give Protoss a different way to counter DT's in PvP It could potentially become the Protoss's minesweeper, if u had a group of 3 or 4 of them do some recon around and quickly remove spider mines from an area in PvT.
1. As for the game, he did a lot of weird things , like fighting the single dragoon while chasing the sair over killing like 8 probes...
2. Zerg kinda donated the game , he could've taken a tiny amount of damage and built a overwhelming # of scourge but chose to chase em around and get kited.. losing several smaller groups, at one point he chased 11 scouts with 4 scourge..
The game is neat, but it's a fluke game if anything imho requiring massive strategy mistakes from a good opponent.
I'd support reducing price by 25 minerals and buffing ground dmg base by +2 also reduce cost of speed upgrade from 200/200 to 100/100 but its never gonna happen so whatever.
This is exactly what blizzard wants, to patch the game and then deal will all the complaints people will have as a consequence. Good move. Let them work on the features we are lacking first. Any changes will lead to 1) too many complaints and unhappy players or 2) a spiral of patches as a respond to it. Idiotic post.
Patching scouts can lead to a very dangerous future: the game will become "patchable" and we will end up just like SC2 with endless changes. So I'm taking the path where couple units will be unusable (although sometimes they have their roles for exotic games) instead of seeing how game will become rollercoaster of changes. So no!
No. Sc2 is a game that has the expectation and perhaps the need for patches but bw should be left untouched. It’s not perfect but it is really dam good in terms of both balance and variety. Leave it be.
I think it would be nice to not watch the same BW game over and over.. the game like prosatan said has become stale.. seeing the same 5-6 openings (if that many even) every game no matter what map. I dislike watching nothing but robo plays for dt drops or reavers in PvT for instance..
Yeah we'd piss off a lot of fanboys.. ( emphasis on fanboy) but it's not like you can't revert the changes if they prove to be unbalanced.. (I'd aim to keep the Winrates somewhat even regardless.)
Hell , even just sending 2-3 zealots at a terran early game has been endlessly complained about.. You need like godlike marine micro to even stand a chance, (Not balanced imho)
I'd love to see some statistics on the ranked winrates in each division, I predict it's not as balanced as anyone claims.
On February 17 2020 03:37 Dillon1 wrote: I'd love to see some statistics on the ranked winrates in each division, I predict it's not as balanced as anyone claims.
When people praise BW's balance they generally talk about the highest level of play and what gets close to it. Obviously some things are OP on lower levels but that is a problem in any competitive RTS.
I don't get this forum sometimes... The PvT Scout might have a place on island maps or even on Inner Coven this season.
People have used the same "Buff" arguments for years when it came to Queens or Valkyries.
Voting for a 2020 balance change with the risk of breaking the balance is so irresponsible and immature that really makes stand out the pervasive modern-gaming and sc2 cultuture that have infected this forum.
No pride and no lessons in being forerunners in Esport I guess.
On February 17 2020 03:37 Dillon1 wrote: I think it would be nice to not watch the same BW game over and over...
That's why strategy games are not for you and you should probably move to MOBAs or something.
If you didn't notice the dynamicism of sc1 meta changes you're probably not following the scene or again, RTS is not for you.
Tens of completely different units have more combinations than there are atoms in the universe plus an incredible variety of maps... Those are GIGANTIC tools to keep games unique and the meta cycles active. The need of constant developers update is a sign of infection of the modern/mobile gaming culture.
On February 17 2020 03:37 Dillon1 wrote: I'd love to see some statistics on the ranked winrates in each division, I predict it's not as balanced as anyone claims.
When people praise BW's balance they generally talk about the highest level of play and what gets close to it. Obviously some things are OP on lower levels but that is a problem in any competitive RTS.
And indeed balancing at the highest level is most reliable way to balance a game due the close skill ceiling, developed mechanics and most of all, you don't balance a game on people that still learning the basics... It's pathetic (Yes I'm looking at you sc2). Not to mention that what people watch on screen are the pros so that has to be the priority when it comes to balance an Esport.
On February 16 2020 02:52 prosatan wrote: I agree! I would love to see a change! I remember a translated video from FBH where he says a change is needed (he made a nice comparison with water)
FirebatHero have been saying and doing Bullshit for decades and now he's the new messiah of this new wave of SC1 Reforged advocates...
I think it would be nice to not watch the same BW game over and over...
Nah I legit think this is bait, Brood War doesn't look the same even on a 2018 and 19 comparison let alone the KeSPA, Sonic and now Flash donation era.
it'll set a terrible precedent, in that blizzard can patch the game not for the sake of balance but rather to force new units into the meta for the sake of viewership.
If you were to buff the scout, you would have to do it because you wanted it to be more relevant. At this point in Starcraft, you don't wanna do something like that, because you are basically taking a chance at messing something up in what most people would say is an insanely good RTS game.
I guess my question is, why would anyone want the scout to be relevant? as it stands now it is almost as if it isn't even in the game. Removing it enitrely would be less of a change that actually changing the scout a little bit. Therefore I think it should just stay as it is.
Also, Starcraft Remastered(Starcraft 1) is LITERALLY only alive because of pro play. There wouldn't even be a Remastered if it weren't for the pro scene in South Korea. If people want a change to the scout, you are basically taking the position of possibly doing damage to what has kept the game alive for 20+ years. You know how Blizzard is these days, change the cost of the scout by 10 minerals and before you know it the game is ruined by changes.
I would say it doesn't you can watch fighting spirit maps from a bunch different timeperiods and they generally play out exactly the same.
As I continually say, they do this on PTR instead of a hard change, checking the winrates the entire time and only okaying it once the post-buff scout has found its home in a balanced game.
The love for the current meta is actually disturbing somewhat. People okay with lockdown not in the game either? -What about a medic blind upgrade cost removal.
On February 17 2020 09:45 Dillon1 wrote: @Starecat,
I would say it doesn't you can watch fighting spirit maps from a bunch different timeperiods and they generally play out exactly the same.
As I continually say, they do this on PTR instead of a hard change, checking the winrates the entire time and only okaying it once the post-buff scout has found its home in a balanced game.
The love for the current meta is actually disturbing somewhat. People okay with lockdown not in the game either? -What about a medic blind upgrade cost removal.
This guy have no idea of what balance is... from now on I will ignore this cwn and only reply to the cwn followers
On February 17 2020 09:45 Dillon1 wrote: @Starecat,
I would say it doesn't you can watch fighting spirit maps from a bunch different timeperiods and they generally play out exactly the same.
As I continually say, they do this on PTR instead of a hard change, checking the winrates the entire time and only okaying it once the post-buff scout has found its home in a balanced game.
The love for the current meta is actually disturbing somewhat. People okay with lockdown not in the game either? -What about a medic blind upgrade cost removal.
This game is from top 5 of the sponsored games from that time. Here is your lockdown and if you look (you propably wont, because it is the same game million times shees) FS is played in laddergames only, every tournament uses some other map currently. Do you even watch Korean brood war? I think not. Maybe you should consider pokemon go, I heard it is updated often enough to satisfy your needs.
On February 16 2020 19:07 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: I'd support reducing price by 25 minerals and buffing ground dmg base by +2 also reduce cost of speed upgrade from 200/200 to 100/100 but its never gonna happen so whatever.
I think buffing scouts is a bit too dangerous. They are already effective with upgrades on island maps, Zerg has no answer to mass scouts - devourers are not good enough to deal with the high explosive damage, and even mutalisks lose to scouts, much less scout/corsair.
If you actually increase their ground damage, even by 1, then they'll be used in a manner similar to TvT to harass bases and force goliaths/turrets.
At the amateur level, scout/reaver vs. Zerg is actually viable, I have lost to it several times vs. a slightly better opponent. The key is that scout ground damage can help your reavers without being as micro intensive as web. Being really good at corsair/reaver is still better, but scout/reaver is good enough for amateurs. 11 scouts pack a stronger punch than 11 corsairs, being able to eliminate overlords very quickly and even hydralisks in small numbers. The reason why it's bad is because of build time, cost, upgrade cost.
The one thing I would agree with is slight boost out of the gate without upgrades or build time decrease. Kind of making them more viable as a guardian "oh snap!" button. But if you do that, give devourers more viability on island maps. Zerg was not that good on Sparkle or semi-island maps, despite those maps being Zerg-friendly on purpose.
I guess if you do those buffs, make ghosts a little more viable as well. Like a faster lockdown trajectile speed or something. Can't be too drastic, again, because you don't know if that ruins arbiters
EPT
