• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 13:13
CEST 19:13
KST 02:13
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week6[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall12HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles7[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China10Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL82
StarCraft 2
General
The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles Server Blocker RSL Season 1 - Final Week
Tourneys
WardiTV Mondays RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo)
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma
Brood War
General
Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL [ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2025 ACS Season 2 Qualifier Small VOD Thread 2.0 Last Minute Live-Report Thread Resource!
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project The PlayStation 5 Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Summer Games Done Quick 2025! Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Accidental Video Game Porn Archive
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Men Take Risks, Women Win Ga…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 720 users

US Politics Mega-Blog - Page 5

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 169 170 171 Next
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23189 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-09-15 00:01:29
September 14 2018 23:41 GMT
#81
On September 15 2018 08:21 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 15 2018 07:28 GreenHorizons wrote:
On September 15 2018 01:42 xDaunt wrote:
Wow, some democrats are doubling down on this Kavanaugh sexual misconduct nonsense. And they're even trotting out Ronan Farrow!


Well imo he's probably a creep who did stuff I wouldn't want a SC judge to have done in their past.

But Democrats are going to give him votes anyway so I don't see how making him out to be a lying rapist doesn't just make the Dems who support his confirmation look even worse than the Republicans who at least don't believe it's what it's portrayed as.

Just like Democrats made Trump out to be the apocolypse and then were perfectly fine with Obama handing him the power to nuke the world and giving him a tour of his new house. That's not how you treat someone you sincerely think may bring about the end of the world and only won because of foreign meddling.

Democrats are spineless save for when defending their big money sponsors against the left.

Wait, wait, wait. How do you get to "he's probably a creep?" All we have is a letter by some anonymous woman who has been quiet for the past 40 years or whatever. Even presuming that that everything that she says in the letter is true, it still isn't a big deal given how long ago it happened and the total absence of any evidence of similar instances of conduct (quite the contrary, actually). What's far more likely is that this woman's account is flawed like the accounts of so many other #metoo accusers, which is why she never reported this nothing burger when it happened.

Now, you raise an interesting point about appropriate levels of resistance. What exactly do you think that the democrats should be doing when it comes Kavanaugh given that they don't have the votes to stop his appointment? For that matter, what do you think democrats should have done when Trump won the election?

I mean shit, it's not like democrats (and many republicans for that matter) haven't gone to unprecedented lengths to sabotage Trump's presidency. Just look at what they have done with that horseshit Steele dossier and the ensuing Mueller investigation. Even when the Mueller investigation winds down and closes without finding any wrongdoing by Trump (which seems inevitable at this point), there won't be any doubt that the whole process will have inflicted a tremendous amount of damage upon Trump's presidency (and the country as a whole).


He was a religious conservative growing up in the 70'/80's. That letter sounds like typical frat guy shit.

Turns out Kavanaugh was Delta Kappa Epsilon at Yale, which you may or may not remember made headlines for being just that kind of group.

When they got to the Yale Women's Center, the brothers instructed the chants to begin. "No means yes, yes means anal," the pledges repeated over and over. "Fucking sluts!" they yelled, and "My name is Jack; I'm a necrophiliac. I fuck dead women and fill them with my semen."


www.businessinsider.com

That's why I think he's a probably a creep, the allegations are far too political at this point to draw much from, but unless the woman admitted making it up and that he was actually very respectful of her and stood up to the other frat-like guys and got beat up or something there's nothing to make me believe he wasn't doing whatever the equivalent of yelling about anal rape at the women's center was when he was with that frat.
____________________________________________________________________________

Also it's looking increasingly like she straight up murdered that guy in his own apartment but the police department is desperately trying to cover for her (instead of doing their job).

"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
September 15 2018 00:03 GMT
#82
Good lord. Does innocent until proven guilty mean anything to you?

As for that cop, it definitely doesn’t look good for her. My next guess is that it is going to come out that she had an affair/relationship with him.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23189 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-09-16 07:02:05
September 15 2018 00:07 GMT
#83
On September 15 2018 09:03 xDaunt wrote:
Good lord. Does innocent until proven guilty mean anything to you?

As for that cop, it definitely doesn’t look good for her. My next guess is that it is going to come out that she had an affair/relationship with him.


We're not in court? I also didn't say I know it for a fact.

Looks more like she (the cop) didn't like him practicing for church choir during the day because she worked nights, got intoxicated and murdered him for it.

Since, the police have done everything in their power to cover for her, instead of doing their jobs.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23189 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-09-16 08:43:06
September 16 2018 08:41 GMT
#84
*looks coyly at introvert*

Meet the Creationist Helping to Change Arizona School Standards on Evolution

Arizona Superintendent Diane Douglas tapped a young-earth creationist to serve last month on a committee tasked with revising the state's science curriculum standards on evolution.

Joseph Kezele, the president of the Arizona Origin Science Association, is a staunch believer in the idea that enough scientific evidence exists to back up the biblical story of creation. Douglas appointed him to an eight-member special working group at the Arizona Department of Education that completed a final review of the draft evolution teaching standards on August 30.

Kezele teaches biology at Arizona Christian University in Phoenix. He advocates teaching his version of "established, real science" in classrooms.

Evolution, he said, is a false explanation for life and should be taught so that students "can defend against it, if they want to."

"I'm not saying to put the Bible into the classroom, although the real science will confirm the Bible,"

He argued that scientific evidence supports his creationist ideas, including the claims that the Earth is only 6,000 years old and that dinosaurs were on board Noah's Ark.

ADE spokesperson Stefan Swiat said that Kezele was selected because of his position at Arizona Christian University. Swiat was unaware if Douglas knew that Kezele was a creationist when she selected him.

"One of the aims of the working group is to include a broad collection of contributors from the scientific community," Swiat wrote in an email. "Both the working group, as well as the head of ADE’s science standards, were completely unaware that Dr. Kezele was a creationist."

Kezele did not discuss his "personal creationist beliefs" with the working group, Swiat added.

As examples of the science that should be taught in classrooms to disprove evolution, Kezele offered unintelligible explanations about the human appendix and the strength of Earth's magnetic field.

Students should be able to judge for themselves whether the creation model or the evolutionary model "actually is consistent with the real scientific evidence that we have," Kezele said. "And then the students can do some thinking and see which one holds up. In general, that's what education should be, not just indoctrination."


www.phoenixnewtimes.com

I think what's most interesting about this is the guy isn't dumb. He knows he couldn't bring creationism into the curriculum so he slipped in just what he could. While I have my own personal issues with religion in general young earth creationism carries with it a whole host of other problematic issues. Namely that anyone adhering to it has a terribly distorted understanding of geological history. From which it makes a great deal of other discussions near impossible.

A private university having the guy teach is fine for them I guess, but having him influence (even if only slightly) so many kids in a public school system is dangerously irresponsible and damaging to children's education.

That said, he's right about it being important to think critically about evolution and where it might fall short in explaining various phenomena.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-09-16 15:00:15
September 16 2018 14:57 GMT
#85
Here it is GH, your grand opportunity to shit all over law enforcement and proclaim that you were always right. You are about to have most of the GOP line up behind you:

To date, Lisa Page’s infamy has been driven mostly by the anti-Donald Trump text messages she exchanged with fellow FBI agent Peter Strzok as the two engaged in an affair while investigating the president for alleged election collusion with Russia.

Yet, when history judges the former FBI lawyer years from now, her most consequential pronouncement may not have been typed on her bureau-issued Samsung smartphone to her colleague and lover.

Rather, it might be eight simple words she uttered behind closed doors during a congressional interview a few weeks ago.

“It’s a reflection of us still not knowing,” Page told Rep. John Ratcliffe (R-Texas) when questioned about texts she and Strzok exchanged in May 2017 as Robert Mueller was being named a special prosecutor to take over the Russia investigation.

With that statement, Page acknowledged a momentous fact: After nine months of using some of the most awesome surveillance powers afforded to U.S. intelligence, the FBI still had not made a case connecting Trump or his campaign to Russia’s election meddling.

Page opined further, acknowledging “it still existed in the scope of possibility that there would be literally nothing” to connect Trump and Russia, no matter what Mueller or the FBI did.

“As far as May of 2017, we still couldn’t answer the question,” she said at another point.


I reached out to Page's lawyer, Amy Jeffress, on Friday. She declined to answer questions about her client’s cooperation with Congress.

It might take a few seconds for the enormity of Page’s statements to sink in. After all, she isn’t just any FBI lawyer. She was a lead on the Russia case when it started in summer 2016, and she helped it transition to Mueller through summer 2017.

For those who might cast doubt on the word of a single FBI lawyer, there’s more.

Shortly after he was fired, ex-FBI Director James Comey told the Senate there was not yet evidence to justify investigating Trump for colluding with Russia. “When I left, we did not have an investigation focused on President Trump,” Comey testified.

And Strzok, the counterintelligence boss and leader of the Russia probe, texted Page in May 2017 that he was reluctant to join Mueller’s probe and leave his senior FBI post because he feared “there’s no big there, there.”

The Department of Justice (DOJ) inspector general asked Strzok shortly before he was fired from the FBI what he meant by that text, and he offered a most insightful answer.

Strzok said he wasn’t certain there was a “broad, coordinated effort” to hijack the election and that the evidence of Trump campaign aides talking about getting Hillary Clinton dirt from Russians might have been just a “bunch of opportunists” talking to heighten their importance.

Strzok added that, while he raised the idea of impeachment in some of his texts to Page, “I am, again, was not, am not convinced or certain that it will,” he told the IG.

So, by the words of Comey, Strzok and Page, we now know that the Trump Justice Department — through Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein — unleashed the Mueller special prosecutor probe before the FBI could validate a connection between Trump and Russia.

Which raises the question: If there was no concrete evidence of collusion, why did we need a special prosecutor?

Page’s comments also mean FBI and Justice officials likely leaked a barrage of media stories just before and after Mueller’s appointment that made the evidence of collusion look far stronger than the frontline investigators knew it to be. Text messages show contacts between key FBI and DOJ players and the Washington Post, the Associated Press and the New York Times during the ramp-up to Mueller’s probe.

And that means the news media — perhaps longing to find a new Watergate, to revive sagging fortunes — were far too willing to be manipulated by players in a case that began as a political opposition research project funded by Trump’s Democratic opponent, Hillary Clinton, and led by a former British intelligence agent, Christopher Steele, who despised Trump.

Finally, Page’s statement signals that the nation’s premier intelligence court may not have been given a complete picture of the evidence — or lack thereof — as it approved an extraordinary surveillance intrusion into an American presidential nominee’s campaign just weeks before Election Day.

There was no fault to the FBI checking whether Trump was compromised by Russia; that is a classic counterintelligence responsibility.

The real fault lies in those leaders who allowed a secret investigation to mushroom into a media maelstrom driven by official leaks that created a story that far exceeded the evidence, and then used that false narrative to set a special prosecutor flying downhill ahead of his skis.

No matter where Mueller ends his probe, it is now clear the actions that preceded his appointment turned justice on its head, imposing the presumption of guilt upon a probe whose own originators had reason to doubt the strength of their evidence.


For anyone who is missing the significance of this testimony, Page apparently confirmed to Congressional investigators that the entire basis for the FISA warrants and Mueller investigation is a farce. And here is the other thing that occurs to me. Trump would have known about this stuff shortly after taking office. What are the chances that he shitcanned Comey because Comey refused to clean this mess up? And given that Trump knew, and given the pre-election texts noting that “the White House”was involved, what are the odds that Obama knew and let this stuff happen anyway? The liberal golden boy may end up being remembered as the new Nixon.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-09-16 15:18:18
September 16 2018 15:17 GMT
#86
On September 16 2018 23:57 xDaunt wrote:
The liberal golden boy

I suppose in the narrowing definition of "liberal" this is still true, but overall he isn't remembered as fondly as he once was. This definitely all started well ahead of Trump taking office though. At the very least he was one hell of a lame duck in the last months.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
September 16 2018 15:37 GMT
#87
On September 17 2018 00:17 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 16 2018 23:57 xDaunt wrote:
The liberal golden boy

I suppose in the narrowing definition of "liberal" this is still true, but overall he isn't remembered as fondly as he once was. This definitely all started well ahead of Trump taking office though. At the very least he was one hell of a lame duck in the last months.

Alright, maybe "democratic golden boy" is more accurate. Regardless, I tend to think that Obama was about as liberal/left as DC would let him be.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
September 16 2018 16:20 GMT
#88
Obama is about as textbook center-left as a person could be, with any of his more straight left ideas being immediately dropped the moment there was any resistance in Congress. What he really seems to represent, which has failed to be replicated despite repeated attempts, is the ability to package those center-left ideas in a charismatic, palatable package that a small majority will accept despite being poorly aligned to that set of positions politically. Maybe it's true that he's as "left as DC would let him be" but that's just a testament to how little DC is really willing to deviate from that center rather than how left-leaning Obama was. "Liberal" on the other hand is very quickly becoming distinct from "left" though, representing the center-left and often being very much at odds with anything to the left of that.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
September 16 2018 17:48 GMT
#89
Here it comes.....

House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence Chairman Devin Nunes said Sunday that he plans to release transcripts of interviews with around 70 witnesses in the Trump-Russia probe within the next few weeks.

“We believe that the depositions that we took, I think for nearly about 70 people those need to be published, and they need to be published I think before the election,” Nunes said in an interview on Fox News’ “Sunday Morning Futures.” (RELATED: House Intel Committee Releases Long-Awaited Report On Trump-Russia Collusion)

“By published I mean put out for the American people to review, so that they can see the work that we did and they can see all of the people that were interviewed by us, and there are answers to those questions. I think full transparency is in order here so I expect to make those available from our committee to the American public here in the next few weeks,” continued Nunes.


Source.

Looks like Trump is about to have the last laugh on the Russia collusion stuff. There’s going to be a daily release of stuff leading all the way up to the election. A lot of people are going to have egg on their faces.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23189 Posts
September 16 2018 21:52 GMT
#90
On September 17 2018 02:48 xDaunt wrote:
Here it comes.....

Show nested quote +
House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence Chairman Devin Nunes said Sunday that he plans to release transcripts of interviews with around 70 witnesses in the Trump-Russia probe within the next few weeks.

“We believe that the depositions that we took, I think for nearly about 70 people those need to be published, and they need to be published I think before the election,” Nunes said in an interview on Fox News’ “Sunday Morning Futures.” (RELATED: House Intel Committee Releases Long-Awaited Report On Trump-Russia Collusion)

“By published I mean put out for the American people to review, so that they can see the work that we did and they can see all of the people that were interviewed by us, and there are answers to those questions. I think full transparency is in order here so I expect to make those available from our committee to the American public here in the next few weeks,” continued Nunes.


Source.

Looks like Trump is about to have the last laugh on the Russia collusion stuff. There’s going to be a daily release of stuff leading all the way up to the election. A lot of people are going to have egg on their faces.


I honestly don't know how they kept up their belief they were going to nail him after the first couple months.

Just remember, law enforcement agencies in this country have been shit since inception, the FBI being one of the most well documented examples. When what they're doing is more politically favorable to you don't act like Democrats did and pretend that they aren't shit filled liars.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
September 17 2018 00:12 GMT
#91
On September 17 2018 06:52 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 17 2018 02:48 xDaunt wrote:
Here it comes.....

House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence Chairman Devin Nunes said Sunday that he plans to release transcripts of interviews with around 70 witnesses in the Trump-Russia probe within the next few weeks.

“We believe that the depositions that we took, I think for nearly about 70 people those need to be published, and they need to be published I think before the election,” Nunes said in an interview on Fox News’ “Sunday Morning Futures.” (RELATED: House Intel Committee Releases Long-Awaited Report On Trump-Russia Collusion)

“By published I mean put out for the American people to review, so that they can see the work that we did and they can see all of the people that were interviewed by us, and there are answers to those questions. I think full transparency is in order here so I expect to make those available from our committee to the American public here in the next few weeks,” continued Nunes.


Source.

Looks like Trump is about to have the last laugh on the Russia collusion stuff. There’s going to be a daily release of stuff leading all the way up to the election. A lot of people are going to have egg on their faces.


I honestly don't know how they kept up their belief they were going to nail him after the first couple months.

Just remember, law enforcement agencies in this country have been shit since inception, the FBI being one of the most well documented examples. When what they're doing is more politically favorable to you don't act like Democrats did and pretend that they aren't shit filled liars.


You know changes are coming when guys like Andrew McCarthy start writing stuff like this:

Based on this fear that FISA could be used pretextually to conduct criminal investigations, the Clinton Justice Department imposed “The Wall.” To prevent investigators from exploiting FISA to steer criminal investigations, a barrier was imposed between the FBI’s counterintelligence agents, on one side, and criminal investigators and prosecutors, on the other. It became practically impossible for the two sides to cooperate and share information.

One result was the desired clamping down on potential FISA abuse. But the cure proved worse than the disease. With counterintelligence and criminal investigators unable to build a mosaic of intelligence, the left hand no longer knew what the right hand was doing. This enabled terrorists to escape detection. Inevitably, catastrophes would occur, such as 9/11.

After 9/11, The Wall came down. Its razing was endorsed by such experienced hands as your humble correspondent. We argued that it was ridiculous to believe the FBI would pretextually use FISA to conduct a criminal investigation. Many times I posited that, even if we assume a rogue agent, it would be far easier for the rogue to fabricate the evidence needed to get a criminal wiretap than to fabricate a national-security angle so he could use FISA. I insisted that if the rogue tried to go the FISA route, he’d never get away with it. FISA requires too many levels of scrutiny in the upper ranks of the FBI and the Justice Department — responsible superiors who would stop the rogue in his tracks.

I was wrong.

What I didn’t factor in was the possibility that, for political reasons, the upper ranks of the FBI and Justice Department would do an investigation by themselves. That should never happen. The bosses are supposed to be the cooler heads, with detachment from on-the-ground investigation. They are there to enforce guidelines and prevent abuse, to police investigations, not conduct them.


Source.

I think that the main problem with law enforcement is cultural. Law enforcement officials no longer care about justice as much as they care about winning — getting notches in their belts. I first noticed this while working at the criminal defense clinic in law school. I saw some assistant DAs who were over the top in their prosecutorial zeal, looking for fairly outrageous sentences for minor offenses. The upper ranks of law enforcement agencies are stacked with these kinds of people. Just look at Mueller’s team as one of the worst such examples.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23189 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-09-17 00:45:52
September 17 2018 00:41 GMT
#92
On September 17 2018 09:12 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 17 2018 06:52 GreenHorizons wrote:
On September 17 2018 02:48 xDaunt wrote:
Here it comes.....

House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence Chairman Devin Nunes said Sunday that he plans to release transcripts of interviews with around 70 witnesses in the Trump-Russia probe within the next few weeks.

“We believe that the depositions that we took, I think for nearly about 70 people those need to be published, and they need to be published I think before the election,” Nunes said in an interview on Fox News’ “Sunday Morning Futures.” (RELATED: House Intel Committee Releases Long-Awaited Report On Trump-Russia Collusion)

“By published I mean put out for the American people to review, so that they can see the work that we did and they can see all of the people that were interviewed by us, and there are answers to those questions. I think full transparency is in order here so I expect to make those available from our committee to the American public here in the next few weeks,” continued Nunes.


Source.

Looks like Trump is about to have the last laugh on the Russia collusion stuff. There’s going to be a daily release of stuff leading all the way up to the election. A lot of people are going to have egg on their faces.


I honestly don't know how they kept up their belief they were going to nail him after the first couple months.

Just remember, law enforcement agencies in this country have been shit since inception, the FBI being one of the most well documented examples. When what they're doing is more politically favorable to you don't act like Democrats did and pretend that they aren't shit filled liars.


You know changes are coming when guys like Andrew McCarthy start writing stuff like this:

Show nested quote +
Based on this fear that FISA could be used pretextually to conduct criminal investigations, the Clinton Justice Department imposed “The Wall.” To prevent investigators from exploiting FISA to steer criminal investigations, a barrier was imposed between the FBI’s counterintelligence agents, on one side, and criminal investigators and prosecutors, on the other. It became practically impossible for the two sides to cooperate and share information.

One result was the desired clamping down on potential FISA abuse. But the cure proved worse than the disease. With counterintelligence and criminal investigators unable to build a mosaic of intelligence, the left hand no longer knew what the right hand was doing. This enabled terrorists to escape detection. Inevitably, catastrophes would occur, such as 9/11.

After 9/11, The Wall came down. Its razing was endorsed by such experienced hands as your humble correspondent. We argued that it was ridiculous to believe the FBI would pretextually use FISA to conduct a criminal investigation. Many times I posited that, even if we assume a rogue agent, it would be far easier for the rogue to fabricate the evidence needed to get a criminal wiretap than to fabricate a national-security angle so he could use FISA. I insisted that if the rogue tried to go the FISA route, he’d never get away with it. FISA requires too many levels of scrutiny in the upper ranks of the FBI and the Justice Department — responsible superiors who would stop the rogue in his tracks.

I was wrong.

What I didn’t factor in was the possibility that, for political reasons, the upper ranks of the FBI and Justice Department would do an investigation by themselves. That should never happen. The bosses are supposed to be the cooler heads, with detachment from on-the-ground investigation. They are there to enforce guidelines and prevent abuse, to police investigations, not conduct them.


Source.

I think that the main problem with law enforcement is cultural. Law enforcement officials no longer care about justice as much as they care about winning — getting notches in their belts. I first noticed this while working at the criminal defense clinic in law school. I saw some assistant DAs who were over the top in their prosecutorial zeal, looking for fairly outrageous sentences for minor offenses. The upper ranks of law enforcement agencies are stacked with these kinds of people. Just look at Mueller’s team as one of the worst such examples.


I think you're nostalgically recalling a time that never existed. From the inception of the FBI it was a trash political organization, police in the US was just the public paying for private business and slaveholders protection, and lawyers (nothing personal), as I understand them, mostly-open sophists.

It would be easy to think that the police officer is a figure who has existed since the beginning of civilization.

In fact, the U.S. police force is a relatively modern invention, sparked by changing notions of public order, driven in turn by economics and politics, according to Gary Potter, a crime historian at Eastern Kentucky University.

Policing in Colonial America had been very informal, based on a for-profit, privately funded system that employed people part-time. Towns also commonly relied on a “night watch” in which volunteers signed up for a certain day and time, mostly to look out for fellow colonists engaging in prostitution or gambling. (Boston started one in 1636, New York followed in 1658 and Philadelphia created one in 1700.) But that system wasn’t very efficient because the watchmen often slept and drank while on duty, and there were people who were put on watch duty as a form of punishment.

Boston was a large shipping commercial center, and businesses had been hiring people to protect their property and safeguard the transport of goods from the port of Boston to other places, says Potter. These merchants came up with a way to save money by transferring to the cost of maintaining a police force to citizens by arguing that it was for the “collective good.”


Additionally:

In the South, however, the economics that drove the creation of police forces were centered not on the protection of shipping interests but on the preservation of the slavery system. Some of the primary policing institutions there were the slave patrols tasked with chasing down runaways and preventing slave revolts, Potter says; the first formal slave patrol had been created in the Carolina colonies in 1704. During the Civil War, the military became the primary form of law enforcement in the South, but during Reconstruction, many local sheriffs functioned in a way analogous to the earlier slave patrols, enforcing segregation and the disenfranchisement of freed slaves.

In general, throughout the 19th century and beyond, the definition of public order — that which the police officer was charged with maintaining — depended whom was asked.


time.com
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
September 17 2018 03:34 GMT
#93
Well, that Time article discusses different problems (particularly the political problems) than what I was describing. But no, I don't really disagree with anything in there.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23189 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-09-17 04:06:29
September 17 2018 03:41 GMT
#94
On September 17 2018 12:34 xDaunt wrote:
Well, that Time article discusses different problems (particularly the political problems) than what I was describing. But no, I don't really disagree with anything in there.


I guess, but this:

We argued that it was ridiculous to believe the FBI would pretextually use FISA to conduct a criminal investigation. Many times I posited that, even if we assume a rogue agent, it would be far easier for the rogue to fabricate the evidence needed to get a criminal wiretap than to fabricate a national-security angle so he could use FISA. I insisted that if the rogue tried to go the FISA route, he’d never get away with it. FISA requires too many levels of scrutiny in the upper ranks of the FBI and the Justice Department — responsible superiors who would stop the rogue in his tracks.


Reads like a madlibs for pretty much the entirety of the "justice" system, politics/economics, and foreign policy.

Pick anything you want and I'll plug it in if you don't believe me.

EDIT:
As a bit of an aside, does it make sense why I think the notion of abolishing the police isn't as ridiculous as people suggest, nor is privatizing policing the savior libertarians tend to think? That for most of US history we didn't have a public police force and when it went public that it largely just turned it into something we all pay for instead of just business/property owners and has resulted in alienating both the population which fund them (by way of predatory policing and prosecution) and the businesses which they were intended to protect (by way of abandoning investigating property crimes under certain amounts).

So perhaps it is a culture issue, but it's a culture as American as the system itself.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-09-17 04:09:11
September 17 2018 04:07 GMT
#95
Yes, your argument for "abolishing the police" definitely looks less crazy now than it did at first blush. I can certainly see how an institution could become so irredeemably corrupt and rotten that abolition followed by replacement is the only option. The point remains, however, that some form of civil police force will continue to be necessary.

So perhaps it is a culture issue, but it's a culture as American as the system itself.


I'd have to think about this, but I'm inclined to say that the worst problems with our law enforcement agencies aren't distinctly American. If anything, political corruption of law enforcement is far, far worse outside of the US.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23189 Posts
September 17 2018 04:39 GMT
#96
On September 17 2018 13:07 xDaunt wrote:
Yes, your argument for "abolishing the police" definitely looks less crazy now than it did at first blush. I can certainly see how an institution could become so irredeemably corrupt and rotten that abolition followed by replacement is the only option. The point remains, however, that some form of civil police force will continue to be necessary.

Show nested quote +
So perhaps it is a culture issue, but it's a culture as American as the system itself.


I'd have to think about this, but I'm inclined to say that the worst problems with our law enforcement agencies aren't distinctly American. If anything, political corruption of law enforcement is far, far worse outside of the US.


Fair enough. I think that in "replacing" them with a "civil police force" it's important to reevaluate every aspect of policing, who/what/when/where/why and how. Along with that comes the rest of the "justice" chain. A great deal of what police do could be done without and some of the things they don't do or do poorly being improved could have radically positive impacts.

As to the Americaness of corruption, it's not that we invented corruption or have some monopoly on being the worst example, just that the type of corruption you're describing is part and parcel of practically every US institution and policy and always has been.

My point is more that the idea that there was some time when they weren't like this is something born of naivete and political expediency not supported by the history or evidence.

I don't say that to slight those that have or still believe that, just that when one starts looking, like for example that article about the history of police vs the popular assumptions in the US-pol thread or the country in general the evidence mounts quickly against the idea that there was some idealized time in US history when the institutions were righteous, the people decent, and opportunity fairly distributed regardless of what particular thing you look into.

Police and the Justice system are some prime examples. I'm reminded of two experiments one metaphorical and one literal. The Five Monkey Experiment and the Milgram experiment. Both insightful imo into how we got to where we currently are and what we have to do to change it.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
September 17 2018 16:04 GMT
#97
Maybe I'm a little jaded, but I find it quite incredible that Kavanaugh's accuser went from "I want to remain anonymous" to "It's time to do a press tour in support of Capitol Hill testimony" in a period of about 48 hours or so. And that's even before factoring in that Feinstein has been sitting on this letter for 2 months or so. Shit like this is why I have zero desire to go into politics. People are dirtbags.
ChristianS
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3188 Posts
September 17 2018 16:20 GMT
#98
On September 18 2018 01:04 xDaunt wrote:
Maybe I'm a little jaded, but I find it quite incredible that Kavanaugh's accuser went from "I want to remain anonymous" to "It's time to do a press tour in support of Capitol Hill testimony" in a period of about 48 hours or so. And that's even before factoring in that Feinstein has been sitting on this letter for 2 months or so. Shit like this is why I have zero desire to go into politics. People are dirtbags.

Is the bolded meant to refer to the accuser? Because that'd be a really quick transition from "I dunno, I'm just a little skeptical about her story" to "she's a dirtbag."

I assume you're on the side of thinking the allegations probably aren't true. If I'm right, would you mind filling in some of the details/how you account for the evidence? Do you think she lied to her therapist 6 years ago? That somebody fabricated the therapist's notes? That she was talking about somebody else 6 years ago and switched to claiming it was Kavanaugh this year? That it was somebody else she mistook for Kavanaugh?

I mentioned this in the main thread, but if the allegation is credible/supported by evidence, it doesn't really matter if the timing is suspect. If the allegations are true Democrats waited to release this for maximum impact, the allegations are still true. And if they're not, and it turns out Feinstein fabricated the whole thing somehow, I'm a CA voter and will vote against her at my next opportunity (fuck that House of Cards bullshit). But based on current evidence, it seems pretty unlkely that the thing is fabricated.
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Robert J. Hanlon
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
September 17 2018 16:41 GMT
#99
I'm not accusing her of being a dirtbag yet, though I tend to think that it is likely that she is (or maybe she's just crazy as is suggested by many of her former students). There are already discrepancies in her story. Throw in her patent dishonesty regarding her intentions in bringing all of this out now (she actually has the gall to say that she's not saying that Kavanaugh shouldn't be confirmed) and the timing issues noted above, and there's plenty to suggest that her intentions are less than honorable.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
September 17 2018 16:42 GMT
#100
On September 18 2018 01:04 xDaunt wrote:
Maybe I'm a little jaded, but I find it quite incredible that Kavanaugh's accuser went from "I want to remain anonymous" to "It's time to do a press tour in support of Capitol Hill testimony" in a period of about 48 hours or so. And that's even before factoring in that Feinstein has been sitting on this letter for 2 months or so. Shit like this is why I have zero desire to go into politics. People are dirtbags.

The whole thing reeks. Also, character witnesses for Kavanaugh have been attacked as preplanned job. She can’t remember the month to even nail down whether he has an alibi. The affair is coincidentally or purposefully arranged to be her word against his for events occurring when they were both teenagers.


Feinstein continues her tomfoolery. This is been all about delay from the start, not finding out the truth and taking a vote.

If MeToo becomes just another political tool for Washington DC, the movement dies. Ellison is doing fine, no news there.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 169 170 171 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
FEL
15:00
Polish Championship - Playoffs
Spirit vs GeraldLIVE!
Elazer vs MaNa
IndyStarCraft 427
CranKy Ducklings277
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
IndyStarCraft 427
Hui .228
BRAT_OK 138
trigger 70
MindelVK 33
ForJumy 6
StarCraft: Brood War
EffOrt 1382
Larva 870
firebathero 531
Dewaltoss 108
Shinee 84
Barracks 73
Aegong 50
Movie 39
LaStScan 28
Terrorterran 22
[ Show more ]
sas.Sziky 5
Stormgate
BeoMulf163
Dota 2
Gorgc10902
qojqva3020
League of Legends
Dendi1407
Counter-Strike
fl0m803
flusha240
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor906
Liquid`Hasu422
Other Games
FrodaN8466
singsing2504
B2W.Neo1519
mouzStarbuck196
KnowMe183
RotterdaM168
Rex16
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick3999
EGCTV1987
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• HeavenSC 58
• Adnapsc2 22
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• OhrlRock 0
StarCraft: Brood War
• Pr0nogo 3
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• Ler128
League of Legends
• Nemesis5629
Other Games
• Shiphtur123
• imaqtpie78
Upcoming Events
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
47m
Bonyth vs Dewalt
QiaoGege vs Dewalt
Hawk vs Bonyth
Sziky vs Fengzi
Mihu vs Zhanhun
QiaoGege vs Zhanhun
Fengzi vs Mihu
Wardi Open
17h 47m
Replay Cast
1d 16h
WardiTV European League
1d 22h
PiGosaur Monday
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Epic.LAN
4 days
[ Show More ]
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
Epic.LAN
5 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
6 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Online Event
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
HSC XXVII
NC Random Cup

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Acropolis #3
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters

Upcoming

CSL Xiamen Invitational
CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
K-Championship
RSL Revival: Season 2
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.