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8751 Posts
On August 01 2018 05:14 Gorsameth wrote:
And yes, Sylvanas doing it in a fit of rage because a dying Nelf felt sorry for her really doesn't make it better. At all...
I didn't see any rage. We get the Sylvanas flashback explaining why Sylvanas would expect this dying night elf to have a broken spirit. Then we see Sylvanas in the present, confident that the night elf will be broken. Then the night elf says "I grieve for you" and Sylvanas's reaction to that is consternation. At 2:40 you see Sylvanas's confidence, then when she turns out to be wrong you can consternation at 2:42. At 2:52, while the night elf explains herself, we see Sylvanas again and she's already more composed than 2:42, as she focuses on what the night elf has to say. After being told she can't kill hope, at 3:02 she looks to the side and says "Can't I?" in a Eureka Moment. Then she gently turns the night elf's head to the side so she's looking at the tree, and when we see Sylvanas again, she has an expression of resolve. She says "burn it" calmly, and when Nathanos ignores her at first she gets angry at him and that's the only anger in the whole scene, when she has to repeat herself. No rage, nothing personal with the night elf.
I totally don't see any rage or "night elf talking shit so Sylvanas lost her mind" like some people say. It was a miscalculation that troubled her for a second, so she recalculated and calmly and resolutely goes forward with a new plan.
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I think that people are jumping to conclusions too early and with too little information.
Blizzard still have to answer the big question about Sylvanas. Why did Vol'jin picked her for Warchief ? Obviously it was not to fight the Burning legion. She didn't do much of that, you can put Baine or Saurfang there and nothing changes. I think that she was picked because of the undead's resistance to Old Gods' corruption. In this expansion Sylvanas will probably l play major role in the fight against the Old Gods.
Also, why is she assaulting Teldrassil ? I doubt that it's out of convenience. She has some goal, which is achievable with or without burning the tree. Obviously from the cinematic the burning was not plan "A". Probably she wanted to destroy something. Maybe it has something to do with the Old Gods' corruption of the tree.
The third cinematic will be really interesting.
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On August 01 2018 01:19 Redox wrote:
To me this depiction of her makes sense. Finally no more pretense with that "morally grey" joke. I feel like this is a much more honest approach.
Though I will admit that I dont know the lore in detail I always saw her as Arthas 2.0.
The problem is she was always practical and dogged in her pursuit of her goals. In this case, occupying Teldrassil and stopping the flow of Azerite were essentially one and the same. She needed that strategic location to disrupt the Alliance's shipping, and she needed it and its population to deter Alliance aggression. She lays out those goals in the Horde questline.
Burning the tree throws all that out the window, kills innocents, and risks the rest of the Horde throwing a fit because it goes against their morals. They don't throw a fit because lazy writing happens. It's in every way the wrong move barring incredibly desperate circumstances.
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United Kingdom20345 Posts
Also, why is she assaulting Teldrassil ? I doubt that it's out of convenience. She has some goal, which is achievable with or without burning the tree. Obviously from the cinematic the burning was not plan "A". Probably she wanted to destroy something. Maybe it has something to do with the Old Gods' corruption of the tree.
It was explained as cutting off the Alliance's access to Azerite
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The personal attacks that people are launching at the writers for these events is god damn awful. People are seriously upset about not being able to understand Sylvanas' motivations for these events? Did these people not read books growing up? A character's motivations are not simply put in front of us and made obvious that is the whole point of telling a story.
The outrage on twitter is just disgusting.
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The problem is people like me have been following the story since WarCraft, and Sylvanas' story specifically since WarCraft 3. This decision flies in the face of 15 years of character development. Sylvanas has always been ruthless, calculating, pragmatic, and hellbent on securing a future for the Forsaken. Burning the tree was none of that, and if the other Horde leaders had stayed true to their own characters they'd have immediately had her head.
Like, it makes no sense for Saurfang to be fine with this. Especially because + Show Spoiler +he throws a fit for essentially the same thing in the Battle for Lordaeron
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I think that list of characteristics is accurate but you leave out the fact that she had always been kept in the background. Thrall specifically (lets not forget how everyone worships this guy) had guards watch her and her Forsaken after the Wrathgate incident because of under-the-rug experiments she had been doing.
And what deal did she make with Helya?
What about when she died at Icecrown?
Pardon the pun but she's got skeletons in her closet.
And let's not forget this is the first time she has power to do what she wants. She's been forced to find allies and follow orders from Horde leaders up until this point just to keep her and her people alive.
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Skeletons in the closet, fine. Dumb decisions, not fine.
Sylvanas is politically adroit, though not charming. She's smart enough to know that the mass murder of civilians and complete destruction of a major city that had otherwise surrendered would immediately result in massive internal conflicts at best. The only reason open rebellion doesn't happen is because bad writing happened instead.
I mean, it's like the time I was playing a Paladin in DnD and didn't even lift a finger as my party started breaking into a house. The DM was like, "Uh Seuss, you going to do anything?" because the definition of my character demanded I at least protest vehemently if not actively try to stop them. My failure to realize that was a novice DnD player mistake. I expect better of writers determine WoW's lore.
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She burned more than a city today.
I'll just leave that for you to decipher.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES51706 Posts
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What are you talking about, we need fresh blood. Bring on Warchief Thalyssra.
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I wonder why the Tauren were at Lorderon defending the forsaken capital. They seemed the most like they would rage quit the horde.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES51706 Posts
On August 01 2018 11:38 Seuss wrote:
What are you talking about, we need fresh blood. Bring on Warchief Thalyssra.
well then, Fem-Thrall(leader of mag'har allied race) for warchief.
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On August 01 2018 10:20 FarmI3oy wrote:
The personal attacks that people are launching at the writers for these events is god damn awful. People are seriously upset about not being able to understand Sylvanas' motivations for these events? Did these people not read books growing up? A character's motivations are not simply put in front of us and made obvious that is the whole point of telling a story.
The outrage on twitter is just disgusting.
People are pissed because Blizzard's writing is absolutely atrocious.
This is fan-fic comic book-level bad.
That said, it's been this way since at least Wings of Liberty.
But yes, the personal attacks are disgusting. But hey, welcome to the internet.
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On August 01 2018 13:10 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2018 10:20 FarmI3oy wrote:
The personal attacks that people are launching at the writers for these events is god damn awful. People are seriously upset about not being able to understand Sylvanas' motivations for these events? Did these people not read books growing up? A character's motivations are not simply put in front of us and made obvious that is the whole point of telling a story.
The outrage on twitter is just disgusting. People are pissed because Blizzard's writing is absolutely atrocious. This is fan-fic comic book-level bad. That said, it's been this way since at least Wings of Liberty. But yes, the personal attacks are disgusting. But hey, welcome to the internet.
Im not angry....
Im just.... disappointed...
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On August 01 2018 12:12 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2018 11:38 Seuss wrote:
What are you talking about, we need fresh blood. Bring on Warchief Thalyssra. well then, Fem-Thrall(leader of mag'har allied race) for warchief.
Lets take it one step further. AU Garrosh beats Sylvanas in mak'gora and becomes the new (old) warchief.
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The plan as a whole was to cut of alliance from azerite by capturing and ocupying the tree. In order to crush spirits and hopes of elves (making oposition and potential revolt from their side a lot less likely) she decided to slay Malfurion. That would send a strong message to alliance as whole and potentialy delay their retaliation.
The only part of her plan that failed was killing Malfurion. Now imagine a different situation. Saurfang does deliver a fatal blow to Malfurion and proceeds as he was ordered. We have the same cinematic but when the nelf chick tells sylvanas that she cant kill hope, instead of ordering to burn the tree she simply takes malfurions head from Sourfang and waves it in front of her. Later she makes sure to put in on display so everyone in kalimdor and eastern kingdoms knows about it.
Burning the tree was directly caused by Sourfang disobeying order and removing crucial part of her plan out of equasion. Instead of holding hostage a strategic location with all of its inhabitants she had it destroyed (not the smartest choice imo).
In scenario where her plan works horde is in dominant position. Alliance has to think about every step with darnassus in mind. In scenario we have, alliance is expected to retaliate and do some damage back.
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it's interesting to see how much attention this is getting. hell, even I am caught up reading the reactions and I've never been drawn in by WoW's lore at all.
But, I don't think it's worth digging into this story too much. It seems clear that character and story are an afterthought for Blizzard. It's not why they make games, anymore.
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On August 01 2018 08:53 Pr0wler wrote:
I think that people are jumping to conclusions too early and with too little information. .
Thank you. This is exactly that.
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I absolutely love it!
Think the cutscene was mint, totally what was needed. It really gave that Wrathgate Forsaken bombing-feel where everyone goes "oh shit...".
Now, obviously if you are Horde for 14 years (which I haven't been) you are probably going "Why the fuck are we coming to her aid in the Undercity though? Why are we following her?" because I doubt the general Horde populus is supposed to know about Vol'jin appointing her due to whispers of the Loas AND even if they did, that sounds like a weird way to appoint the next Warchief.
As Alliance though this is pure baller stuff, I can't wait to go end Sylvanas. Unlike the Horde going "eeeh, there's no option to not take this quest..." I am totally down with my King Anduin that wants to go and straight up end Sylvanas.
Now maybe they open up factions after this expansion, maybe Voljin comes back, maybe Thrall comes back, maybe Saurfang leads it even though he doesn't want to. Who knows. All we know is that we are ending Sylvanas no matter if it turns out that "oh jeez, good thing you burned that tree before Old Gods!" or "Jeez, great that we have Sylvanas who can fight the Void cause she's undead". I mean, we have plenty of strong Forsaken even with her gone to be able to fight the Void.
Varian did say in Orgrimmar that if the Horde failed to uphold Honor we would end them. Have to be done, Old Gods will just have to step aside for however long it takes to put an end Sylvanas. (Also put a mace to the face of Lor'themar for allowing Sylvanas to go nuts the passive lad, he led the uprising on land VS Garrosh but here he's just enjoying his new well)
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