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On May 19 2014 00:28 Cheerio wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2014 23:55 Gorsameth wrote:
First off I don't get those video's with interviews on the separatists where they basically say they are desperate and out of options. Surely if your in that position the last thing you wanne do is say that in front of the media.
That said assuming there is some truth to it I cant say anything other then "No shit". You cant lead a separatists movement without extremely broad public support and there has been no sign at any point that this support existed. I think there were "signs" if you look from the russian media perspective.
From the outside yes but you would think the people on the ground would have a more accurate view of how things were.
I assume they were gambling on Russia helping them more directly as they did in Crimea and annexing the region. When that didn't happen they were left without a plan or a solution.
Some time ago they could have laid down there arms and come off reasonably light but now we have a fair few dead innocents and murdered officials so the ringleaders will not get away with this.
I wouldn't be surprised if the leaders run across the border in the coming days leaving the rest of the separatists to there fate and ending the unrest, tho all that assumes Russia doesn't once again start up trouble.
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On May 19 2014 00:10 Roman666 wrote:This is funny and gross at the same time. Basically Polish journalist got detained in Simferopol on basis of illegal border crossing, when he flew in from Moscow. He told the FSB agents that him facing this charge is in direct contradiction to recent Russian "anti-separatist" bill and it is them who will get incarcerated if their superiors would find out, lol. http://khpg.org.ua/en/index.php?id=1400367137
Yeah, most people don't seem to know what is going on in Crimea now. The leader of the Tatars was banned from being in Crimea/Russia for at least five years, and today when there were rallies concerning the 70th anniversary of the Russians forcibly deporting most of the Crimean Tatars from their lands the Russian military has sent in helicopters against them as well as riot police from parts of Russia.
Not to mention how the Russians were marking their homes and burning down some of their businesses/homes before the annexation, as well as Tatars who were being kidnapped and tortured to death.
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@cheerio
he's not responding the post he had quoted. he's speculating on who was behind the shooting, and it seems like he thinks he is responding to something i wrote, so he'll have to point to it.
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On May 19 2014 00:53 nunez wrote:
@cheerio
he's not responding the post he had quoted. he's speculating on who was behind the shooting, and it seems like he thinks he is responding to something i wrote, so he'll have to point to it.
He is.
Not to mention, you did the "who are you responding to" thing on the same page to me as well, i suppose at least, since funnily enough you didn't clarify who you asked and i can't be arsed to clarify who i'm talking to if i actually quote the person that i'm talking to.
Don't understand what you're trying, but i agree that it's kinda annoying.
edit: and stop suggesting that the monitor-article proves things. That's even more annoying, since it's outright lying.
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@m4ini
lol, i was talking about you.
note that the post cheerio quoted was the one in response to you.
you seem very confused, help me help you out.
which post were you responding too?
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On May 19 2014 00:59 nunez wrote:
@m4ini
lol, i was talking about you.
note that the post cheerio quoted was the one in response to you.
you seem very confused, help me help you out.
which post were you responding too?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/general/437184-ukraine-crisis?page=546#10905
That's my posting, to which you answer "who are you talking to".
Now, let me ask you: who am i quoting?
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i'm saying there were shots fired from the hotel, which was under maidan control.
which one of those is an assumption or a conspiracy theory?
what part of it are you adressing do you think?
and no, i'm asking you which post you are responding to. clearly not the one you quoted! must have been one of my previous posts maybe?
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A 68 year old farmer was executed by separatists in Sergiivka, Slavyansk region, according to UNN news, which reference a local. According to the news, the separatists came over to his home, dragged him out of the house, spoke of his "crimes" and shot him in front of his family and neighbours. The man was known locally to be helping out Ukrainian army with food and visiting them often at block-posts.
http://www.unn.com.ua/uk/news/1343882-boyoviki-bilya-slovyanstka-rozstrilyali-pensionera-u-prisutnosti-ridni-zachitavshi-smertniy-virok-dnr
On May 19 2014 00:59 nunez wrote:
@m4ini
lol, i was talking about you.
note that the post cheerio quoted was the one in response to you.
you seem very confused, help me help you out.
which post were you responding too?
oh please shut up.
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Oh, so the statement of you suggesting that the article proves that the shieldguy was shot from behind, that's dismissed now?
Let me help you remember.
A german monitor report that proves the shield guy was shot from Hotel Ukraine? I'm listening.
huh?
read it for yourself. seems clear cut.
How about you point me towards what exactly is clear cut? Maybe i can help you out. For starters, it's nothing new that there's reports of shots from the hotel. Dating back to march and earlier. You're btw not stating that there's shots fired from the hotel, but you're suggesting it's protesters shooting, which is wrong on so many levels.
Not to mention that the hotel seemingly (although it's hearsay for me, didn't factcheck) was in "berkut-control" beforehand.
edit: but honestly, it's getting seriously stupid now. Take the article for what it is, and don't try to add merit or stories to it. It doesn't prove anything. They say they doubt the official story based on several reasons. That's what really is stupid. There were shots from the hotel. Yes. We knew that for a long time now.
Based on that, what exactly are you trying to argue?
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no, i jokingly suggested that i had done fine detective work by encircling an area from which shots originated.
i don't know what cheerio is talking about.
can you point me to the posts where i'm suggesting that protestors where shooting?
or the post where i say this proves that shield guy was shot from behind?
neither of which is to be found in the last 10 pages, so maybe you can help me out?
is it too much to ask that you, cheerio, mc and roman etc... manage to read the posts are responding to?
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I just quoted where you suggest that the article proves that he was shot from behind, wtf.
Are you trolling now?
edit: cute though, how about you take your own advice. I said you suggest the article proves stuff. I didn't say "you said the article proves it".
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On May 19 2014 01:20 nunez wrote:
no, i jokingly suggested that i had done fine detective work by encircling an area from which shots originated.
i don't know what cheerio is talking about.
can you point me to the posts where i'm suggesting that protestors where shooting?
or the post where i say this proves that shield guy was shot from behind?
neither of which is to be found in the last 10 pages, so maybe you can help me out?
is it too much to ask that you, cheerio, mc and roman etc... manage to read the posts are responding to?
when you feel like everyone has got a problem with you, the problem is usually you.
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m4ini, i'm saying, and have been saying that the article establishes that shots were coming from the hotel, which was under maidan control. the article doesn't even mention good old shieldguy, nor have i.
cheerio is terribly confused, i'm not sure how he ended up responding to me the way he did. another copy pasted hackneyed saying...
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Can't we all agree that we don't know who the snipers were? It could have been one of like 6 parties. The assertion that it was from the hotel proves nothing. Maybe there was a sniper in the hotel from before it was taken over by Maidan? Do we know whether the hotel was actually controlled by Maidan? Was it barricaded? Did they search people entering? Do we know if they searched all the rooms? Maybe somebody entered the hotel? I assume it was utter chaos everywhere so it isn't that hard to infiltrate.
Who did it? Maybe it was some crazy right-sector thug trying to escalate things. Maybe it was Yanukovych trying to suppress the protests. Maybe it was FSB. Maybe it was CIA. Maybe, maybe, maybe.....
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i haven't been partaking in the speculations (this time around). that's all on you lot.
what's been established (in the monitor report) is that shots came also from the hotel, under maidan control, that both police officers and protestors were shot with the same kind of ammunition and that the kiev's govt investigation seems to be lacking.
also that i'm a good detective, and that you guys ought to work on your reading comprehension...
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On May 19 2014 01:20 nunez wrote:
no, i jokingly suggested that i had done fine detective work by encircling an area from which shots originated.
i don't know what cheerio is talking about.
can you point me to the posts where i'm suggesting that protestors where shooting?
or the post where i say this proves that shield guy was shot from behind?
neither of which is to be found in the last 10 pages, so maybe you can help me out?
is it too much to ask that you, cheerio, mc and roman etc... manage to read the posts are responding to?
I threw in the "CIA conspiracy" phrase into my post probably because of my prejudice towards you. You had gone to enormous lengths to suggest that entire Euromaidan was created and supported by CIA/USA and whatever other backseat hidden forces connected with those. That is how I perceive your posting mate, as a rabid anti USA activist, who will take any opportunity to show how USA is meddling everywhere with its octopus tentacles. Perhaps I am wrong about you, but seriously, to be clear about it, this is how you have selled yourself to me.
As to the speculation about who did the shooting, yes I am speculating, I have no knowledge who did it. Let us end this debate now and move on.
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well, first of all, it totally was and i totally am, secondly, it's a poor excuse for not reading the posts you're responding to.
tl peanut gallery chastizing me as a conspiracy theorist as they go off the rails with their own speculations, comedy.
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On May 19 2014 01:53 nunez wrote:
well, first of all, it totally was and i totally am, secondly, it's a poor excuse for not reading the posts you're responding to.
tl peanut gallery chastizing me as a conspiracy theorist as they go off the rails with their own speculations, comedy.
If you get asked "so the article proves that the shield guy was shot from behind" and you respond with "read the article, it's clear cut" then it's your fault. You could've just said "wasn't talking about shieldguy" or "nothing is proven, but [..]", instead you suggested that there's something in the article proving your claim. Based on that, you're trying to play victim now.
One thing here's comedy, yes, but it's not people misunderstanding you. It's you giving vague answers and then pointing at other people for not getting it.
edit: and on that matter, i'm out. Fed you way too much.
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On May 19 2014 01:53 nunez wrote:
well, first of all, it totally was and i totally am, secondly, it's a poor excuse for not reading the posts you're responding to.
tl peanut gallery chastizing me as a conspiracy theorist as they go off the rails with their own speculations, comedy.
It was never an excuse, I do not feel like I have to excuse myself. I simply stated the fact.
That second sentence, did you even read what you wrote. Reek of hypocrisy is smelt greatly even through digital display.
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@m4ini
nu - hey whaddayaknow. that's where, on hotel ukraine, monitor reported shots were coming from. man i'm good.
ny - besides improvable ms paint skills, what is that supposed to prove?
nu - just giving myself a little pat on the back for approximately drawing a circle around several buildings, one of which has now been reported (by monitor) to be the location of shooters.
ch - No, you are not. That was false information. An extensive report on the shield guy here
nu - wrong. german monitor report posted earlier shows that shots came from the hotel.
ch - A german monitor report that proves the shield guy was shot from Hotel Ukraine? I'm listening.
nu - huh? read it for yourself. seems clear cut.
the report doesn't mention the shieldguy at all, nor did i.
i refuse to be held accountable for your ineptitude.
this silliness is on you two. nuff said.
@roman
ah, you're almost there then. i'm indeed pointing out hypocricy.
i seldom chastize ppl for indulging in conspiracy theories, i quite enjoy them myself.
i even mark them with spoilered tinfoiler from time to time.
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EPT
