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On May 19 2014 06:56 PaleMan wrote:
...and Cheerio still thinks Maidan is a huge win :facepalm.jpg:
And you believe Russia has a future. I wonder which is more sad.
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a russian thinking his country has a future? their audacity knows no bounds.
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On May 19 2014 07:02 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2014 06:56 PaleMan wrote:
...and Cheerio still thinks Maidan is a huge win :facepalm.jpg: And you believe Russia has a future. I wonder which is more sad.
Nah, just going by the trends for the past decade, I think Russia has a future. Not sure where you got the idea the country doesn't.
The trio of posts at the bottom of the previous page were funny though. However, it's sad to admit there's actually some truth to the post regarding Poroshenko / economic situation.
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On May 19 2014 06:43 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2014 06:39 likeasu wrote:On March 04 2014 05:34 likeasu wrote:
hey, guys from US, UK and another. Relax, ok?
First of all, I wanna You switch ON your brains. Russia will never start war against Ukraine. NEVER.
The only one thing why Russia can enter troopers on Crimea- is save Crimea people from quality of new Ukraine goverment. New Ukraine politic faces (Turchinov, Yaceniuk, Klichko) are EMPTY places in fact. They are only PR-persons. They havnt a really power in country. Anothers person rules Ukraine now- people with money and guns in hands (far right extremists form "Praviy sektor" UNA UNSO and so on). And these extrimists used Euromaidan to take power in hands. People who was on Euromaidan are about 0,1% of all Ukraine. The most of them were standing for bright and good ideas. And do you think these ordinary people won? NO! They were just used and fucked by terrorists and Ukraine aligarhs (if you dont belive my words - check up that 2 aligarhs are already now regional governors).
And dont blame Russia if you know all facts. Better ask yourself about United States.
USA bombed more then 10 countries last 15 years. USA supported military revolutions is East, S.America, Africa. And now in Ukraine. Goverment of USA is really hypocriticals fucking bustards.
Russia WILL NEVER FIGHT against Ukranian. Casual people of Russia and Ukraine are brothers. it was march message.... actually this: The most of them were standing for bright and good ideas. And do you think these ordinary people won? NO! They were just used and fucked by terrorists and Ukraine aligarhs thank you for reminding us that everything you said was BS. good job!
meh, wanted to post this.
On May 19 2014 06:56 PaleMan wrote:
...and Cheerio still thinks Maidan is a huge win :facepalm.jpg:
Most people in this thread agree that corruption is the biggest problem for Ukraine. Driving out the most corrupt President Ukraine ever had, and letting anyone who takes his place know, that the same will happen to him if he would be doing the same, looks like a step in the right direction. And another big step forward is the chosen path of EU integration. Sorry, Russians, but no matter how bad democracy looks like, its still far better than whatever you are up to. Russia, goodbye.
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On May 19 2014 07:07 nunez wrote:
a russian thinking his country has a future? their audacity knows no bounds.
Well if Russia keeps up the never ending cycle of imperialistic adventures followed by inevitable collapse I don't think their country has a very bright future. But I guess it's better to blame the evil West who is obviously responsible for the Maidan shootings, hunger in North Korea and every other problem on this planet.
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Russia's bright future could be turned into pile of crap on a whim. Enough that Saudis increase their oil output to drop the price below critical level for Kremlin, and it goes bankrupt in a few months. Just like it had been in 80's.
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On May 19 2014 07:51 Cheerio wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2014 06:43 Gorsameth wrote:On May 19 2014 06:39 likeasu wrote:On March 04 2014 05:34 likeasu wrote:
hey, guys from US, UK and another. Relax, ok?
First of all, I wanna You switch ON your brains. Russia will never start war against Ukraine. NEVER.
The only one thing why Russia can enter troopers on Crimea- is save Crimea people from quality of new Ukraine goverment. New Ukraine politic faces (Turchinov, Yaceniuk, Klichko) are EMPTY places in fact. They are only PR-persons. They havnt a really power in country. Anothers person rules Ukraine now- people with money and guns in hands (far right extremists form "Praviy sektor" UNA UNSO and so on). And these extrimists used Euromaidan to take power in hands. People who was on Euromaidan are about 0,1% of all Ukraine. The most of them were standing for bright and good ideas. And do you think these ordinary people won? NO! They were just used and fucked by terrorists and Ukraine aligarhs (if you dont belive my words - check up that 2 aligarhs are already now regional governors).
And dont blame Russia if you know all facts. Better ask yourself about United States.
USA bombed more then 10 countries last 15 years. USA supported military revolutions is East, S.America, Africa. And now in Ukraine. Goverment of USA is really hypocriticals fucking bustards.
Russia WILL NEVER FIGHT against Ukranian. Casual people of Russia and Ukraine are brothers. it was march message.... actually this: The most of them were standing for bright and good ideas. And do you think these ordinary people won? NO! They were just used and fucked by terrorists and Ukraine aligarhs thank you for reminding us that everything you said was BS. good job! meh, wanted to post this. Show nested quote +On May 19 2014 06:56 PaleMan wrote:
...and Cheerio still thinks Maidan is a huge win :facepalm.jpg: Most people in this thread agree that corruption is the biggest problem for Ukraine. Driving out the most corrupt President Ukraine ever had, and letting anyone who takes his place know, that the same will happen to him if he would be doing the same, looks like a step in the right direction. And another big step forward is the chosen path of EU integration. Sorry, Russians, but no matter how bad democracy looks like, its still far better than whatever you are up to. Russia, goodbye.
Except the EU has no interest in ever letting Ukraine join, and it's not like the country will start with a clean slate after the upcoming elections. This is going to be another failed "revolution" like the one with Yuschenko, except Yanukovich probably won't be coming back.
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On May 19 2014 08:39 EtherealBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2014 07:51 Cheerio wrote:On May 19 2014 06:43 Gorsameth wrote:On May 19 2014 06:39 likeasu wrote:On March 04 2014 05:34 likeasu wrote:
hey, guys from US, UK and another. Relax, ok?
First of all, I wanna You switch ON your brains. Russia will never start war against Ukraine. NEVER.
The only one thing why Russia can enter troopers on Crimea- is save Crimea people from quality of new Ukraine goverment. New Ukraine politic faces (Turchinov, Yaceniuk, Klichko) are EMPTY places in fact. They are only PR-persons. They havnt a really power in country. Anothers person rules Ukraine now- people with money and guns in hands (far right extremists form "Praviy sektor" UNA UNSO and so on). And these extrimists used Euromaidan to take power in hands. People who was on Euromaidan are about 0,1% of all Ukraine. The most of them were standing for bright and good ideas. And do you think these ordinary people won? NO! They were just used and fucked by terrorists and Ukraine aligarhs (if you dont belive my words - check up that 2 aligarhs are already now regional governors).
And dont blame Russia if you know all facts. Better ask yourself about United States.
USA bombed more then 10 countries last 15 years. USA supported military revolutions is East, S.America, Africa. And now in Ukraine. Goverment of USA is really hypocriticals fucking bustards.
Russia WILL NEVER FIGHT against Ukranian. Casual people of Russia and Ukraine are brothers. it was march message.... actually this: The most of them were standing for bright and good ideas. And do you think these ordinary people won? NO! They were just used and fucked by terrorists and Ukraine aligarhs thank you for reminding us that everything you said was BS. good job! meh, wanted to post this. On May 19 2014 06:56 PaleMan wrote:
...and Cheerio still thinks Maidan is a huge win :facepalm.jpg: Most people in this thread agree that corruption is the biggest problem for Ukraine. Driving out the most corrupt President Ukraine ever had, and letting anyone who takes his place know, that the same will happen to him if he would be doing the same, looks like a step in the right direction. And another big step forward is the chosen path of EU integration. Sorry, Russians, but no matter how bad democracy looks like, its still far better than whatever you are up to. Russia, goodbye. Except the EU has no interest in ever letting Ukraine join, and it's not like the country will start with a clean slate after the upcoming elections. This is going to be another failed "revolution" like the one with Yuschenko, except Yanukovich probably won't be coming back. I think it's too early to say considering any real possibility of membership is probably at least 10 years away. Hell, I'm not even sure EU will still exist in 10 years. That's not the point. The point is changing the country up to European standards. And I'm sure Europeans would be willing to help.
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I think that Russia's plan is to destabilize Ukraine so much that EU would have go bankrupt for an Ukrainian acquisition so that the region have to turn to Russia for support when Russian finishes up stabilizing their economy and build oil transport road to Asia so that their economy can support Ukraine's. And also this in turn also bridges much closer to Transnisteria's hope for Russian's annexation. And from this documentary https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0I404gXbNg, that place seems to be well organized and have a good industrial background.
Its really depending on how much chaos Russia can create in Ukrainian and whether or not Germany, France and the rest of the Europe and even their American allies can absorb Ukraine or not. Interesting times ahead of us for sure.
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Russia has a future: it's future is economic collapse.
Just wait another 30 years. It's bound to happen.
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On May 19 2014 09:02 Cheerio wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2014 08:39 EtherealBlade wrote:On May 19 2014 07:51 Cheerio wrote:On May 19 2014 06:43 Gorsameth wrote:On May 19 2014 06:39 likeasu wrote:On March 04 2014 05:34 likeasu wrote:
hey, guys from US, UK and another. Relax, ok?
First of all, I wanna You switch ON your brains. Russia will never start war against Ukraine. NEVER.
The only one thing why Russia can enter troopers on Crimea- is save Crimea people from quality of new Ukraine goverment. New Ukraine politic faces (Turchinov, Yaceniuk, Klichko) are EMPTY places in fact. They are only PR-persons. They havnt a really power in country. Anothers person rules Ukraine now- people with money and guns in hands (far right extremists form "Praviy sektor" UNA UNSO and so on). And these extrimists used Euromaidan to take power in hands. People who was on Euromaidan are about 0,1% of all Ukraine. The most of them were standing for bright and good ideas. And do you think these ordinary people won? NO! They were just used and fucked by terrorists and Ukraine aligarhs (if you dont belive my words - check up that 2 aligarhs are already now regional governors).
And dont blame Russia if you know all facts. Better ask yourself about United States.
USA bombed more then 10 countries last 15 years. USA supported military revolutions is East, S.America, Africa. And now in Ukraine. Goverment of USA is really hypocriticals fucking bustards.
Russia WILL NEVER FIGHT against Ukranian. Casual people of Russia and Ukraine are brothers. it was march message.... actually this: The most of them were standing for bright and good ideas. And do you think these ordinary people won? NO! They were just used and fucked by terrorists and Ukraine aligarhs thank you for reminding us that everything you said was BS. good job! meh, wanted to post this. On May 19 2014 06:56 PaleMan wrote:
...and Cheerio still thinks Maidan is a huge win :facepalm.jpg: Most people in this thread agree that corruption is the biggest problem for Ukraine. Driving out the most corrupt President Ukraine ever had, and letting anyone who takes his place know, that the same will happen to him if he would be doing the same, looks like a step in the right direction. And another big step forward is the chosen path of EU integration. Sorry, Russians, but no matter how bad democracy looks like, its still far better than whatever you are up to. Russia, goodbye. Except the EU has no interest in ever letting Ukraine join, and it's not like the country will start with a clean slate after the upcoming elections. This is going to be another failed "revolution" like the one with Yuschenko, except Yanukovich probably won't be coming back. I think it's too early to say considering any real possibility of membership is probably at least 10 years away. Hell, I'm not even sure EU will still exist in 10 years. That's not the point. The point is changing the country up to European standards. And I'm sure Europeans would be willing to help.
Go find more quotes first. Second go visit your own country peripheral zones, i can tell already Central Ukraine, a very poor region before, is ever poorer now, prices are up, salarys stay the same, infrastructure is in state of decay since 1991 or maybe a bit earlier. What European standarts are you talking about ? I live in europe, no one wants you here, im sorry, not you but the country which is in so far below average european level that bringing it back will cost a lot and given the state of economy right now in EU is quiete clear you're on your own, just you and your maidan ideas. Country is in fucking ruin , you got nothing to do with it, im not saying that, but at least try to analize the economic situation, which is why you want into EU in the first place, because if the situation would be good with Russia, you would be calling them brothers , am i right ? Probably you were listening some russian songs not so long ago, maybe watching some series, reading books in russian, now sudently you calling Goodbyes, you're your own enemy.
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Russia has never had a "future" and has never been a place where things get better without them getting much worse. Their growing alliance with china will give them relevence for a long time ahead.
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On May 19 2014 09:49 Xiphos wrote:I think that Russia's plan is to destabilize Ukraine so much that EU would have go bankrupt for an Ukrainian acquisition so that the region have to turn to Russia for support when Russian finishes up stabilizing their economy and build oil transport road to Asia so that their economy can support Ukraine's. And also this in turn also bridges much closer to Transnisteria's hope for Russian's annexation. And from this documentary https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0I404gXbNg, that place seems to be well organized and have a good industrial background. Its really depending on how much chaos Russia can create in Ukrainian and whether or not Germany, France and the rest of the Europe and even their American allies can absorb Ukraine or not. Interesting times ahead of us for sure.
can you explain what makes you think EU interests in Ukraine ? I know Germany , France UK, doing alright, but what about the rest of Europe ? Lets not take in consideration smaller countrys, they're not the economic machines of EU but rather depend on succes of the region as a whole. How many billions they need to put in to bring Ukraine up, and for what ? If its recources, its easier just to buy them off someone then to build all the infrastrucutre to EU standarts in a country where things were stale since 1991.
Ukraine got no real leader since its Independece. Country was pretty much divided politicaly, people were used to diferent kind of system , ties with Russia aren't just economical or political they are very deep cultural, and i dont see a reason why a country in development like Russia got some extra recources to fuel and Destabilize Ukraine. For what ? So later if they bring Ukraine into they economic zone fuel it back in. Im sure not economic expert, but i just dont see a logic behind your words.
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On May 19 2014 11:52 Greem wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2014 09:02 Cheerio wrote:On May 19 2014 08:39 EtherealBlade wrote:On May 19 2014 07:51 Cheerio wrote:On May 19 2014 06:43 Gorsameth wrote:On May 19 2014 06:39 likeasu wrote:On March 04 2014 05:34 likeasu wrote:
hey, guys from US, UK and another. Relax, ok?
First of all, I wanna You switch ON your brains. Russia will never start war against Ukraine. NEVER.
The only one thing why Russia can enter troopers on Crimea- is save Crimea people from quality of new Ukraine goverment. New Ukraine politic faces (Turchinov, Yaceniuk, Klichko) are EMPTY places in fact. They are only PR-persons. They havnt a really power in country. Anothers person rules Ukraine now- people with money and guns in hands (far right extremists form "Praviy sektor" UNA UNSO and so on). And these extrimists used Euromaidan to take power in hands. People who was on Euromaidan are about 0,1% of all Ukraine. The most of them were standing for bright and good ideas. And do you think these ordinary people won? NO! They were just used and fucked by terrorists and Ukraine aligarhs (if you dont belive my words - check up that 2 aligarhs are already now regional governors).
And dont blame Russia if you know all facts. Better ask yourself about United States.
USA bombed more then 10 countries last 15 years. USA supported military revolutions is East, S.America, Africa. And now in Ukraine. Goverment of USA is really hypocriticals fucking bustards.
Russia WILL NEVER FIGHT against Ukranian. Casual people of Russia and Ukraine are brothers. it was march message.... actually this: The most of them were standing for bright and good ideas. And do you think these ordinary people won? NO! They were just used and fucked by terrorists and Ukraine aligarhs thank you for reminding us that everything you said was BS. good job! meh, wanted to post this. On May 19 2014 06:56 PaleMan wrote:
...and Cheerio still thinks Maidan is a huge win :facepalm.jpg: Most people in this thread agree that corruption is the biggest problem for Ukraine. Driving out the most corrupt President Ukraine ever had, and letting anyone who takes his place know, that the same will happen to him if he would be doing the same, looks like a step in the right direction. And another big step forward is the chosen path of EU integration. Sorry, Russians, but no matter how bad democracy looks like, its still far better than whatever you are up to. Russia, goodbye. Except the EU has no interest in ever letting Ukraine join, and it's not like the country will start with a clean slate after the upcoming elections. This is going to be another failed "revolution" like the one with Yuschenko, except Yanukovich probably won't be coming back. I think it's too early to say considering any real possibility of membership is probably at least 10 years away. Hell, I'm not even sure EU will still exist in 10 years. That's not the point. The point is changing the country up to European standards. And I'm sure Europeans would be willing to help. Go find more quotes first. Second go visit your own country peripheral zones, i can tell already Central Ukraine, a very poor region before, is ever poorer now, prices are up, salarys stay the same, infrastructure is in state of decay since 1991 or maybe a bit earlier. What European standarts are you talking about ? I live in europe, no one wants you here, im sorry, not you but the country which is in so far below average european level that bringing it back will cost a lot and given the state of economy right now in EU is quiete clear you're on your own, just you and your maidan ideas. Country is in fucking ruin , you got nothing to do with it, im not saying that, but at least try to analize the economic situation, which is why you want into EU in the first place, because if the situation would be good with Russia, you would be calling them brothers , am i right ? Probably you were listening some russian songs not so long ago, maybe watching some series, reading books in russian, now sudently you calling Goodbyes, you're your own enemy.
Listening to some russians songs and watching some russian TV means you have to want to side wit corrupt abusive failing country rather than EU? I got news for you, I know plenty of russians, ukranians, and other russian speaking ethnic people here in america, and even if some of them still have something to do with russian culture, they all know that russia is a giant shit corrupt shit hole that is just going to collapse like it always does when it becomes imperialistic. People are fleeing russia because it's a sinking ship, so why should people who have some culture in common with it choose the sinking ship over the EU? It's not like joining the EU means you have to never speak russian or have anything to do with russian culture again. If ukraine joins EU they won't suddenly be all forced to speak english and german.
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On May 19 2014 12:09 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2014 11:52 Greem wrote:On May 19 2014 09:02 Cheerio wrote:On May 19 2014 08:39 EtherealBlade wrote:On May 19 2014 07:51 Cheerio wrote:On May 19 2014 06:43 Gorsameth wrote:On May 19 2014 06:39 likeasu wrote:On March 04 2014 05:34 likeasu wrote:
hey, guys from US, UK and another. Relax, ok?
First of all, I wanna You switch ON your brains. Russia will never start war against Ukraine. NEVER.
The only one thing why Russia can enter troopers on Crimea- is save Crimea people from quality of new Ukraine goverment. New Ukraine politic faces (Turchinov, Yaceniuk, Klichko) are EMPTY places in fact. They are only PR-persons. They havnt a really power in country. Anothers person rules Ukraine now- people with money and guns in hands (far right extremists form "Praviy sektor" UNA UNSO and so on). And these extrimists used Euromaidan to take power in hands. People who was on Euromaidan are about 0,1% of all Ukraine. The most of them were standing for bright and good ideas. And do you think these ordinary people won? NO! They were just used and fucked by terrorists and Ukraine aligarhs (if you dont belive my words - check up that 2 aligarhs are already now regional governors).
And dont blame Russia if you know all facts. Better ask yourself about United States.
USA bombed more then 10 countries last 15 years. USA supported military revolutions is East, S.America, Africa. And now in Ukraine. Goverment of USA is really hypocriticals fucking bustards.
Russia WILL NEVER FIGHT against Ukranian. Casual people of Russia and Ukraine are brothers. it was march message.... actually this: The most of them were standing for bright and good ideas. And do you think these ordinary people won? NO! They were just used and fucked by terrorists and Ukraine aligarhs thank you for reminding us that everything you said was BS. good job! meh, wanted to post this. On May 19 2014 06:56 PaleMan wrote:
...and Cheerio still thinks Maidan is a huge win :facepalm.jpg: Most people in this thread agree that corruption is the biggest problem for Ukraine. Driving out the most corrupt President Ukraine ever had, and letting anyone who takes his place know, that the same will happen to him if he would be doing the same, looks like a step in the right direction. And another big step forward is the chosen path of EU integration. Sorry, Russians, but no matter how bad democracy looks like, its still far better than whatever you are up to. Russia, goodbye. Except the EU has no interest in ever letting Ukraine join, and it's not like the country will start with a clean slate after the upcoming elections. This is going to be another failed "revolution" like the one with Yuschenko, except Yanukovich probably won't be coming back. I think it's too early to say considering any real possibility of membership is probably at least 10 years away. Hell, I'm not even sure EU will still exist in 10 years. That's not the point. The point is changing the country up to European standards. And I'm sure Europeans would be willing to help. Go find more quotes first. Second go visit your own country peripheral zones, i can tell already Central Ukraine, a very poor region before, is ever poorer now, prices are up, salarys stay the same, infrastructure is in state of decay since 1991 or maybe a bit earlier. What European standarts are you talking about ? I live in europe, no one wants you here, im sorry, not you but the country which is in so far below average european level that bringing it back will cost a lot and given the state of economy right now in EU is quiete clear you're on your own, just you and your maidan ideas. Country is in fucking ruin , you got nothing to do with it, im not saying that, but at least try to analize the economic situation, which is why you want into EU in the first place, because if the situation would be good with Russia, you would be calling them brothers , am i right ? Probably you were listening some russian songs not so long ago, maybe watching some series, reading books in russian, now sudently you calling Goodbyes, you're your own enemy. Listening to some russians songs and watching some russian TV means you have to want to side wit corrupt abusive failing country rather than EU? I got news for you, I know plenty of russians, ukranians, and other russian speaking ethnic people here in america, and even if some of them still have something to do with russian culture, they all know that russia is a giant shit corrupt shit hole that is just going to collapse like it always does when it becomes imperialistic. People are fleeing russia because it's a sinking ship, so why should people who have some culture in common with it choose the sinking ship over the EU? It's not like joining the EU means you have to never speak russian or have anything to do with russian culture again. If ukraine joins EU they won't suddenly be all forced to speak english and german.
First you say that listening to a songs and watching TV ( which i didnt say, i said series, entertaining ones) is making you side with country, corrupt one, rather then EU ? What an odd thing to say, so if i watch Game of Thrones that make me side with someone ? Get back to earth. If you catch the idea behind my words, i meant that his attacks agains Russians are on cultural level, but not long ago he was part of that culture, he probably is now, to some degree at least.
To your standarts when shit goes down, everyone suppose to leave ? Im very sorry but if all got that thinking the whole world would be a gigantic nomad nation, and its not the case. And i dont know why u telling me about all the rest.
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On May 19 2014 12:07 Greem wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2014 09:49 Xiphos wrote:I think that Russia's plan is to destabilize Ukraine so much that EU would have go bankrupt for an Ukrainian acquisition so that the region have to turn to Russia for support when Russian finishes up stabilizing their economy and build oil transport road to Asia so that their economy can support Ukraine's. And also this in turn also bridges much closer to Transnisteria's hope for Russian's annexation. And from this documentary https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0I404gXbNg, that place seems to be well organized and have a good industrial background. Its really depending on how much chaos Russia can create in Ukrainian and whether or not Germany, France and the rest of the Europe and even their American allies can absorb Ukraine or not. Interesting times ahead of us for sure. can you explain what makes you think EU interests in Ukraine ? I know Germany , France UK, doing alright, but what about the rest of Europe ? Lets not take in consideration smaller countrys, they're not the economic machines of EU but rather depend on succes of the region as a whole. How many billions they need to put in to bring Ukraine up, and for what ? If its recources, its easier just to buy them off someone then to build all the infrastrucutre to EU standarts in a country where things were stale since 1991. Ukraine got no real leader since its Independece. Country was pretty much divided politicaly, people were used to diferent kind of system , ties with Russia aren't just economical or political they are very deep cultural, and i dont see a reason why a country in development like Russia got some extra recources to fuel and Destabilize Ukraine. For what ? So later if they bring Ukraine into they economic zone fuel it back in. Im sure not economic expert, but i just dont see a logic behind your words.
Ukraine is the place to keep Russia in check and the west wants to minimize Russia's territory as small as possible.
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On May 19 2014 12:29 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2014 12:07 Greem wrote:On May 19 2014 09:49 Xiphos wrote:I think that Russia's plan is to destabilize Ukraine so much that EU would have go bankrupt for an Ukrainian acquisition so that the region have to turn to Russia for support when Russian finishes up stabilizing their economy and build oil transport road to Asia so that their economy can support Ukraine's. And also this in turn also bridges much closer to Transnisteria's hope for Russian's annexation. And from this documentary https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0I404gXbNg, that place seems to be well organized and have a good industrial background. Its really depending on how much chaos Russia can create in Ukrainian and whether or not Germany, France and the rest of the Europe and even their American allies can absorb Ukraine or not. Interesting times ahead of us for sure. can you explain what makes you think EU interests in Ukraine ? I know Germany , France UK, doing alright, but what about the rest of Europe ? Lets not take in consideration smaller countrys, they're not the economic machines of EU but rather depend on succes of the region as a whole. How many billions they need to put in to bring Ukraine up, and for what ? If its recources, its easier just to buy them off someone then to build all the infrastrucutre to EU standarts in a country where things were stale since 1991. Ukraine got no real leader since its Independece. Country was pretty much divided politicaly, people were used to diferent kind of system , ties with Russia aren't just economical or political they are very deep cultural, and i dont see a reason why a country in development like Russia got some extra recources to fuel and Destabilize Ukraine. For what ? So later if they bring Ukraine into they economic zone fuel it back in. Im sure not economic expert, but i just dont see a logic behind your words. Ukraine is the place to keep Russia in check and the west wants to minimize Russia's territory as small as possible.
I'm sorry i don't know why, im assumed you from Germany. West is quiet large definition. US wants that , yes, but the West ? What is there to gain for EU ? but i'm guessing since you're not from EU, you probably couldn't answer that properly.
Can someone inteligent enough and with wide knowledge of economics, give some explanation on what exactly is there to gain for EU ? (When word inteligent is used im sure many will try answer, lets observe the human nature)
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The EU is constantly expanding out of ideology. It wants to spread its values and culture across Europe. Like America it believes its culture is and politics is superior to the rest of the world, and so it spreads it out of benevolence.
For Russia this is extremely threatening. The Russians have a Orthodox Christian culture combined with a culture that emphasizes the importance of authoritarianism and central command, which is pretty much the opposite of what the EU stands for. As a result the Russian government is turning to the Chinese, whom they're much more comfortable with culturally.
Sometimes the spread of EU/American culture works (the Baltic countries), and sometimes it doesn't (Iraq). But you have to admit: the EU is a pretty successful political and cultural entity so far. When French people are friends with Germans and Italians on a mostly equal basis: that says a lot given their past history. Can the Russians claim they're just as friendly with Ukrainians, Georgians, and Chechens?
The only way the Russians can get people to join its sphere of influence is to invade them.
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China and the US have a ridiculously large trading network that dwarfs Russia/China. I don't see china willing to lose the high tech for mere ideology. After all, China moved away from ideology after Mao with Deng XiaoPing, and there is significant monetary investment on both sides particularly in education. So no. A Sino-Russian alliance would pale in the face of a Sino-American one.
Top 10 Trading Partners of China: (hint: US is number one)
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/bizchina/2014-02/19/content_17290565.htm
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On May 19 2014 12:33 Greem wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2014 12:29 Xiphos wrote:On May 19 2014 12:07 Greem wrote:On May 19 2014 09:49 Xiphos wrote:I think that Russia's plan is to destabilize Ukraine so much that EU would have go bankrupt for an Ukrainian acquisition so that the region have to turn to Russia for support when Russian finishes up stabilizing their economy and build oil transport road to Asia so that their economy can support Ukraine's. And also this in turn also bridges much closer to Transnisteria's hope for Russian's annexation. And from this documentary https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0I404gXbNg, that place seems to be well organized and have a good industrial background. Its really depending on how much chaos Russia can create in Ukrainian and whether or not Germany, France and the rest of the Europe and even their American allies can absorb Ukraine or not. Interesting times ahead of us for sure. can you explain what makes you think EU interests in Ukraine ? I know Germany , France UK, doing alright, but what about the rest of Europe ? Lets not take in consideration smaller countrys, they're not the economic machines of EU but rather depend on succes of the region as a whole. How many billions they need to put in to bring Ukraine up, and for what ? If its recources, its easier just to buy them off someone then to build all the infrastrucutre to EU standarts in a country where things were stale since 1991. Ukraine got no real leader since its Independece. Country was pretty much divided politicaly, people were used to diferent kind of system , ties with Russia aren't just economical or political they are very deep cultural, and i dont see a reason why a country in development like Russia got some extra recources to fuel and Destabilize Ukraine. For what ? So later if they bring Ukraine into they economic zone fuel it back in. Im sure not economic expert, but i just dont see a logic behind your words. Ukraine is the place to keep Russia in check and the west wants to minimize Russia's territory as small as possible. I'm sorry i don't know why, im assumed you from Germany. West is quiet large definition. US wants that , yes, but the West ? What is there to gain for EU ? but i'm guessing since you're not from EU, you probably couldn't answer that properly. Can someone inteligent enough and with wide knowledge of economics, give some explanation on what exactly is there to gain for EU ? (When word inteligent is used im sure many will try answer, lets observe the human nature)
Ukraine had some oil reserve and sea control over the black sea. Taking over of those assets can be quite beneficial commercially speaking.
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EPT
