EPTUkraine Crisis - Page 546
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nunez
Norway4003 Posts
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
From his perspective, short version, not direct translation. One month ago we came to help Donbass. Hearing their pleas to give them weapons we did so, by capturing those or buying from weapon traders for "outrageous money". We have weapons now, but as time passes we dont see people coming to us to defend their lands, no volunteers. [some notes about how big Donbass is]. But I didn't expect that there would be less than 1000 volunteers for such a huge territory. [gives instances of how the volunteers he did get are walking away after realizing what they are getting themselves into] [blames Ukrainian nationalists for how bad Donbass lives] I cant see the 27 thousands volunteers that journalists [Russian journalists probably] are claming are here. Our ranks mainly consist of men over 40, who were raised in USSR, where are the young men? [blames the youths for using the crisis as an opportunity to rob the region] We have the news of their "heroic deeds" every day. As a result some of the volunteers we have are demanding weapons to defend from the criminals who are on the loose [and he understands those]. [says they will deal with the criminals eventually]. Returning to the point of conscription, if the men can't defend this land, we will conscribe women. I already made orders to accept them. [blames oligarhs for supporting Kyiv] [asks for volunteers in Slavyansk, Kramatorsk...] God and the Truth are with us! | ||
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
On May 18 2014 21:12 Gorsameth wrote: seems unlike considering how little success the Ukraine army has had until now and a fight that kills over a 100 people would get a little more attention I believe Oo Well first of all there was some kind of artillery used [last night there were reports from locals that heavy explosions were going off beyond the town], and since no territory was gained it is impossible for the military to confirm the number of casualties on the other side [they rely on some "intelligence"]. And even if they could confirm the casualties they might be reluctant to do so since those mostly are Ukrainian citizens after all, even if they are being considered terrorists. One hundred deaths would still be a national tragedy. | ||
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
On May 18 2014 21:35 Cheerio wrote: According to Donetsk news source OstroV they caught Russian media at another piece of lies. Here Vesti shows "civilians killed near Slavyansk", at 4:45 then they say it was actually a footage from the same channel but shot 18.11.2012 while ATO in a region of Russia. They referenced the video but it looks like it became unavailable after the news came up. http://www.ostro.org/general/politics/news/444843/ update. Ok, found another source for the confirmation video | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
On May 18 2014 21:52 nunez wrote: that's cool meta and all, but the report establishes that shots were coming from the hotel. But if you'd bothered to actually read the article, it's not telling you who was shooting there. To assume that protesters capable of sniping people (military equipment/training) are retarded enough to use their headquarters at that time as "base" to shoot their own people is extremely dumb. Even without military training, just with a brain, you'd come to the conclusion that this is the stupidest assumption ever. | ||
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nunez
Norway4003 Posts
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
On May 18 2014 21:47 nunez wrote: huh? read it for yourself. seems clear cut. your 11 minute long home-made youtube video as 'an extensive report', hahaha. so the posts being made at a video game forum are somehow more reliable? I suggest we judge by the content. | ||
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nunez
Norway4003 Posts
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
On May 18 2014 22:54 m4ini wrote: But if you'd bothered to actually read the article, it's not telling you who was shooting there. To assume that protesters capable of sniping people (military equipment/training) are retarded enough to use their headquarters at that time as "base" to shoot their own people is extremely dumb. Even without military training, just with a brain, you'd come to the conclusion that this is the stupidest assumption ever. the thing is that the building was at the hands of pro-government forces early that day, and only after Maidan pushed forward was it cut off. Euromaidan activists had time to search the building only in the evening after fighting calmed down. And they did claim to find some pro-government shooting spots there [read not theirs]. Don't remember if anyone was captured, it was very easy to sneak out considering the mess that was going on there when the mass shootings started. | ||
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
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Mc
332 Posts
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Roman666
Poland1440 Posts
On May 18 2014 23:03 nunez wrote: the report from monitor seems reliable and convincing. Try to be more objective mate, if you are looking for CIA conspiracy everywhere, everything that fits that pov will be reliable and convincing. Just as m4ini said, it would be beyond any comprehension to shoot from your "base" to your own people and then claim that was Berkut doing the shooting. This is another instance of convienient provocation, just like a burned car with unburned plates loaded full of right sector leaflets, google maps and of course fucking $ bills. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22664 Posts
That said assuming there is some truth to it I cant say anything other then "No shit". You cant lead a separatists movement without extremely broad public support and there has been no sign at any point that this support existed. | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
On May 18 2014 23:10 Cheerio wrote: the thing is that the building was at the hands of pro-government forces early that day, and only after Maidan pushed forward was it cut off. Euromaidan activists had time to search the building only in the evening after fighting calmed down. And they did claim to find some pro-government shooting spots there [read not theirs]. Don't remember if anyone was captured, it was very easy to sneak out considering the mess that was going on there when the mass shootings started. Didn't know that, and doesn't really matter in this (sub-)discussion, since the very article he's quoting states that they can't tell what happened. The only thing the article concludes, and i'll agree there, is that the official statement might not be the truth. That's the only thing the article suggest. Maybe it's easier for me to comprehend it, since i'm a native german-speaker, but yeah. Citing this article as "proof" for anything is idiotic. I don't even disagree with the article. Don't need to, since the only thing it claims is that the official statement might be "biased", or better, rigged. Nowhere does it say, or prove, that there's protesters sniping their own people. | ||
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Roman666
Poland1440 Posts
On May 18 2014 23:55 Gorsameth wrote: First off I don't get those video's with interviews on the separatists where they basically say they are desperate and out of options. Surely if your in that position the last thing you wanne do is say that in front of the media. That said assuming there is some truth to it I cant say anything other then "No shit". You cant lead a separatists movement without extremely broad public support and there has been no sign at any point that this support existed. Well, they so far they claimed they had public support, even the "referendum" gave them 89% of support with over 70% of turnout, right? /s I guess it looks more like civilians are terrorized, goaded and possibly paid to get involved in this whole mess, while most of them, while not supportive of Kiev government does not support the terrorists too. | ||
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Mc
332 Posts
But CIA operatives in Cuba. CIA coups during cold war and $$$ everywherezzz. | ||
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Roman666
Poland1440 Posts
http://khpg.org.ua/en/index.php?id=1400367137 | ||
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nunez
Norway4003 Posts
what post are you responding to? are u suggesting that shooting didn't come from the hotel or are you speculating in who was the perps? | ||
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
On May 18 2014 23:55 Gorsameth wrote: First off I don't get those video's with interviews on the separatists where they basically say they are desperate and out of options. Surely if your in that position the last thing you wanne do is say that in front of the media. That said assuming there is some truth to it I cant say anything other then "No shit". You cant lead a separatists movement without extremely broad public support and there has been no sign at any point that this support existed. I think there were "signs" if you look from the russian media perspective. | ||
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
On May 18 2014 22:57 nunez wrote: which post are you responding to? this is getting frustrating. There is a quote in his post. So maybe you are using some kind of smartphone browser that cuts off the quotes? Anyway stop this nonsense please. | ||
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