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On May 18 2014 00:55 Mc wrote:
@nunez
You keep implying that it was an armed coup, or if nor armed that it was a coup forced by right wing nationalists. You have 0 evidence for that. I show you a clear argument that parliament turned on him in the wake of the massive killings of the preceding days.
Timeline:
Feb 18th/19th : violent clashes between Berkut and protestors. 20 or 30 people dead (including police officers).
Feb 20th : the whole sniper incident, Party of regions members start resigning en masse.
Feb 21st : Agreement on resolving the crisis with Yanukovych, Tymoszenko freed by parliament, etc., at least 28 members of Party of Regions resigned by now.
Feb 21st (evening) : Yanukovych flees
Feb 22nd : Parliament removes Yanukovych.
It seems clear that Yanukovych fled because parliament had turned its back on him and that he was removed from office because parliament turned his back on him.
I still don't see evidence that it was a coup by militant parts of maidan and that's just your unfounded conjecture. Seems much more likely that it was a decision by parliament in the wake of the tragic events and chaos of Feb 18th - Feb 20th. Parliament realized that the best way to move on as a country was without Yanukovych, even though they didn't have grounds upon which to remove him (yet) and thus decided to bypass the lengthy impeachment process.
You missing an important piece in your timeline, after the deal was reached between Yanukovich and Yatsunik. Radical elements of the maidan Right Sector, Svoboda, and others, made a statement. They will not recognize the deal. Yanukovich leaves.
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Yanukovychs own party disowned him.How are you supposed to stay in office after you order to shoot your own people.
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The paper tiger strikes another severe blow against Russia!
...not.
Energy sanctions against Russia would be 'inappropriate', EU says(Reuters) - European Energy Commissioner Guenther Oettinger said on Friday that Russia is Europe's main trading partner in natural gas and that there should be therefore no sanctions against Moscow's energy sector over the crisis in Ukraine. Sanctions against the Russian energy sector are "something that is inappropriate," Oettinger told reporters through an interpreter after a meeting of EU energy ministers in Athens. Source
Sycophant bureaucrats at hard work again of course.
Any Germans willing to sign a petition to request for annexation by Russia tomorrow? You'll get free cookies from Comrade Novak if you do! (you won't be getting any from Nuland this time unfortunately)
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To be fair sanctions against the financial sector would probably as devastating without disturbing the gas flow too much. Not that the EU will do that but still.
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On May 18 2014 03:02 RvB wrote:
To be fair sanctions against the financial sector would probably as devastating without disturbing the gas flow too much. Not that the EU will do that but still.
More of a case of the EU getting caught with their pants down and now they're running around wondering what to do.
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@nyxisto
the perps of kiev shootings are tbd.
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And then there's Yanukyovich, who left office with an approval rating of -3%.
How is that possible, you say? Well, this is Ukraine we're talking about. The Ukraine, after all, is weak.
[ducks as rotten fruit is thrown]
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On May 18 2014 03:19 nunez wrote:
@nyxisto
the perps of kiev shootings are tbd.
Yes, it was obviously Obama and/or the Freemasons.
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Yeah I wonder what the story with these guys were was.
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besides improvable ms paint skills, what is that supposed to prove?
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just giving myself a little pat on the back for approximately drawing a circle around several buildings, one of which has now been reported (by monitor) to be the location of shooters. stumbled upon it again after clicking ego's link.
i wouldn't hold my breath waiting to get answers on who were behind the shootings though.
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On May 18 2014 02:31 kukarachaa wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2014 00:55 Mc wrote:
@nunez
You keep implying that it was an armed coup, or if nor armed that it was a coup forced by right wing nationalists. You have 0 evidence for that. I show you a clear argument that parliament turned on him in the wake of the massive killings of the preceding days.
Timeline:
Feb 18th/19th : violent clashes between Berkut and protestors. 20 or 30 people dead (including police officers).
Feb 20th : the whole sniper incident, Party of regions members start resigning en masse.
Feb 21st : Agreement on resolving the crisis with Yanukovych, Tymoszenko freed by parliament, etc., at least 28 members of Party of Regions resigned by now.
Feb 21st (evening) : Yanukovych flees
Feb 22nd : Parliament removes Yanukovych.
It seems clear that Yanukovych fled because parliament had turned its back on him and that he was removed from office because parliament turned his back on him.
I still don't see evidence that it was a coup by militant parts of maidan and that's just your unfounded conjecture. Seems much more likely that it was a decision by parliament in the wake of the tragic events and chaos of Feb 18th - Feb 20th. Parliament realized that the best way to move on as a country was without Yanukovych, even though they didn't have grounds upon which to remove him (yet) and thus decided to bypass the lengthy impeachment process. You missing an important piece in your timeline, after the deal was reached between Yanukovich and Yatsunik. Radical elements of the maidan Right Sector, Svoboda, and others, made a statement. They will not recognize the deal. Yanukovich leaves.
I don't think it's just radical elements of maidan that rejected the peace deal. Since Yanukovych's crack down on maidan had caused dozens of deaths in the preceding days (Feb 18th/19th), I would assume that many normal protestors on maidan blamed the sniper killings on Yanukovych. So maidan as a whole was not supportive of a deal where Yanukovych remained in office (given that they blamed him for the ridiculous amount of deaths during the sniper attacks).
Anyway, I'm not sure when exactly his party started turning on him - I assume it was a direct result of the violence, but maybe it was more of a result of Yanukovych's apparent capitulation (the peace deal), or a result of maidan protestors continuing to demand his resignation. Either way my point is that it wasn't an violent coup by radical elements of maidan but it was parliament that decided to turn on Yanukovych (release Tymoshenko, switch parties) and then later remove him (once he fled the city).
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On May 18 2014 02:39 Nyxisto wrote:
Yanukovychs own party disowned him.How are you supposed to stay in office after you order to shoot your own people.
you know that the new, not yet confirmed by the ukrainian population, gouvernment ordered soldiers to kill russian seperatists in the ukraine who after all also are "their own people".
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On May 18 2014 07:46 Undead1993 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2014 02:39 Nyxisto wrote:
Yanukovychs own party disowned him.How are you supposed to stay in office after you order to shoot your own people. you know that the new, not yet confirmed by the ukrainian population, gouvernment ordered soldiers to kill russian seperatists in the ukraine who after all also are "their own people".
I will agree that the way these military operations are executed is really questionable and that the Ukrainian forces are in bad condition, but if armed separatists are taking hostages and occupying buildings the government needs to react. That's what every country would have done in that situation. No country is going to accept people claiming new states on their territory by force.
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On May 18 2014 07:49 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2014 07:46 Undead1993 wrote:On May 18 2014 02:39 Nyxisto wrote:
Yanukovychs own party disowned him.How are you supposed to stay in office after you order to shoot your own people. you know that the new, not yet confirmed by the ukrainian population, gouvernment ordered soldiers to kill russian seperatists in the ukraine who after all also are "their own people". I will agree that the way these military operations are executed is really questionable and that the Ukrainian forces are in bad condition, but if armed separatists are taking hostages and occupying buildings the government needs to react. That's what every country would have done in that situation. No country is going to accept people claiming new states on their territory by force.
didn't yanukovich need to react when the maidan was occupied by people for about 4 whole months
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Sigh..
Are we at this again?
EuroMadian was a people's revolt that was declared illegal and turned violent when the police tried to remove it by force.
East Ukraine started as without large scale protests and immediately went to the armed separatists taking control of government buildings and police stations despite the interim government promising to give them more autonomy.
The same separatists that have kidnapped/tortured/murdered police chiefs and politicians. Local people are not allowed to leave there city's and at least 2 cars with innocent civilians trying to leave have already been shot at with fatal results.
Yes the military is total in there right in killing these separatists if they are unwilling to surrender.
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On May 18 2014 07:46 Undead1993 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2014 02:39 Nyxisto wrote:
Yanukovychs own party disowned him.How are you supposed to stay in office after you order to shoot your own people. you know that the new, not yet confirmed by the ukrainian population, gouvernment ordered soldiers to kill russian seperatists in the ukraine who after all also are "their own people".
So now, if a group of peope in Dresden grab their weapons and decide to found People's Republic of Dresden, the German army will sit and will do nothing ? Separatists is the key word here 
Funny how these "civilians" from day 1 have the equipment to take down choppers and can successfuly defend their positions against the regular army of Ukraine. Maybe, if I was completely insane, I would guess that Russia has something to do with this... Thankfully I'm not.
BTW it's funny how the EU and US started everything and now suddenly they are taking the "passive approach".
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On May 18 2014 08:02 Pr0wler wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2014 07:46 Undead1993 wrote:On May 18 2014 02:39 Nyxisto wrote:
Yanukovychs own party disowned him.How are you supposed to stay in office after you order to shoot your own people. you know that the new, not yet confirmed by the ukrainian population, gouvernment ordered soldiers to kill russian seperatists in the ukraine who after all also are "their own people". So now, if a group of peope in Dresden grab their weapons and decide to found People's Republic of Dresden, the German army will sit and will do nothing ? Separatists is the key word here Funny how these "civilians" from day 1 have the equipment to take down choppers and can successfuly defend their positions against the regular army of Ukraine. Maybe, if I was completely insane, I would guess that Russia has something to do with this... Thankfully I'm not. BTW it's funny how the EU and US started everything and now suddenly they are taking the "passive approach".
sigh no the EU and the US started nothing.
a portion of the Ukraine people started this when Yanokovich went back on his election promise to work towards joining the EU.
There is 0 evidence for the EU/US doing anything but provide moral support to EuroMadian and even that only happened after Yanokovich declared them illegal and tried to remove them by force.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ZR5mD6Q.png)
