On December 08 2013 20:33 PaleMan wrote: you still dod not answer my question from page 3
why Estonia is already a member and Ukraine is not
at 1st you and Roman said - "shitty laws"
wrong answer
what prevented EU to work the shit out of ukrainian laws like they did with estonia's and make Ukraine member of EU earlier
try again! :p
Rule of law. Democratic leaders. Human rights.
Political culture and establishment who made the promise for EU integration as per the wishes of population, and didn't back down in spite of vested interests of the oligarchs. Causing an immense increase of living standards that leave Ukrainians jealous.
The EU ingtegration is a part of the electoral program of the Party of Regions which has a majority in the parliament alongside with the Comunist Party. And Yanuko**ch belongs to the Party of Regions.
Some recent news about russian opinion of the situation:
In a non-binding statement, the lower house of parliament, or State Duma, called on Ukrainian opposition forces to "stop illegal actions" and urged the West to "stop mounting external pressure on the politics of a country that is brotherly to us."
source It seems very hard to justify calling peaceful protests "illegal actions", but that seems to be the central argument.
And the opposition seems to get shut down, probably to try and stop protesters from organizing:
Heavily armed riot troops broke into the offices of a top Ukrainian opposition party in Kiev and seized its servers Monday, the party said, as anti-government protests crippled the capital for yet another day.
In a particularly vitriolic 20-minute report aired December 8 on the state-controlled Rossiya 1 channel, Kiselyov described Ukrainian opposition leader and world heavyweight boxing champion Vitali Klitschko and his brother Vladimir as gay icons.
He went on to explain how demonstrators camped out on Independence Square survived on warm lard heated on burn barrels and used "ancient African military techniques" against police.
From the same article:
Kiselyov had appeared in another television program in which he used footage from a Swedish children's series about bodily functions to disparage Europe and Ukraine's EU ambitions.
He insisted that the children's program -- which features an orchestra of backsides dressed in hats, glasses, and ties -- showed "European values in all their glory" and charged that "early sex from the age of 9" was the norm in Sweden.
Well you certainly did your best to prove Roman666's point.
oh strange person who supports vandalism speaking
take your friends to some statue in your city, smash it, say it was "long overdue redecorating" then come back and post
If there was a statue in my city of someone along the lines of Lenin, or Stalin or Hitler for example, of course I would do my best to see it destroyed. But they don't exist.
What is your opinion on statues of Stalin and Lenin?
What you have just posted shows even more of your twisted way of arguing with people.
First you have shown how "peaceful" the riots are by showing videos of militia forces being attacked by protesters. I asked you if you can show the other side of the coin - how Berkut dealt with protesters. The whole point was that the violence was present on both sides. You replied with the question if that will make protest peaceful, and then you asked why the Ukraine miltia can't beat up the protesters because US Police did so too - that makes it ok, right? Police should pacify the protesters everywhere, right? I understand that this is what you are accustomed to see in Russia, that the show of force is the only true way to achieve peace and that is why it does not startle you at all. Well, good luck in your life, I hope you will never have to experience the weight of the police bat on your neck.
In a particularly vitriolic 20-minute report aired December 8 on the state-controlled Rossiya 1 channel, Kiselyov described Ukrainian opposition leader and world heavyweight boxing champion Vitali Klitschko and his brother Vladimir as gay icons.
He went on to explain how demonstrators camped out on Independence Square survived on warm lard heated on burn barrels and used "ancient African military techniques" against police.
Kiselyov had appeared in another television program in which he used footage from a Swedish children's series about bodily functions to disparage Europe and Ukraine's EU ambitions.
He insisted that the children's program -- which features an orchestra of backsides dressed in hats, glasses, and ties -- showed "European values in all their glory" and charged that "early sex from the age of 9" was the norm in Sweden.
In a particularly vitriolic 20-minute report aired December 8 on the state-controlled Rossiya 1 channel, Kiselyov described Ukrainian opposition leader and world heavyweight boxing champion Vitali Klitschko and his brother Vladimir as gay icons.
He went on to explain how demonstrators camped out on Independence Square survived on warm lard heated on burn barrels and used "ancient African military techniques" against police.
From the same article:
Kiselyov had appeared in another television program in which he used footage from a Swedish children's series about bodily functions to disparage Europe and Ukraine's EU ambitions.
He insisted that the children's program -- which features an orchestra of backsides dressed in hats, glasses, and ties -- showed "European values in all their glory" and charged that "early sex from the age of 9" was the norm in Sweden.
I see where he is coming from...
ROFL, that freedom of speech.
EDIT: Actually it is not funny but rather tragic.
It is actually a good show of freedom of speech. Anywhere where you are held to your word that would get you in trouble due to libel laws.
That it is straight up lies and follows government lines has nothing to do with if it is free speech or not.
This is a bit off topic though. I'm pretty sure joining EU would be good for Ukraine in the short term, say 10 years or so. Forcing changes and enforcement of laws is probably the biggest impact.
I'm not 100% sold on the EU in the long term for any nation.
Paleman logic: Ukranian protests are no longer peaceful. Ukranian police are brutal. American police are brutal too. This makes police brutality an ok thing to do.
Some insight into what the governance of Yanukovych looks like from Anders Aslunds perspective:
Mr Yanukovych has used a salami tactic against the tycoons.
Young businessmen or corporate raiders buy out their enterprises one after the other. These sales have been described as not very voluntary, given that the "family" controls law enforcement, courts and the tax authorities.
They have expanded in traditional heavy industry, media, and banking. Hardly any big businessman now dares to oppose Mr Yanukovych any longer. Most try to be neutral.
The political pressure from EUs ministers is starting to become massive. The protesters have left negotiation with Yanukovych in his dialogue meetings and the clashes between the police and protesters only seems to bring more people to the streets. I don't know Yanukovychs end-game, but he has to do something drastic very soon to avoid an uncontrollable situation.
EPT
