On March 06 2014 06:19 nunez wrote: this vid was prolly posted earlier of snipers firing at protesters, youtube but here's also a google map link for apporx the place where most people are seen to be falling in the videos: source
eerie stuff.
kinda seems like the guy at 12:24 is shot from north / north east, you can kinda see there's a new hole in his shield bulging inwards. there's a red high rise in approx that direction too.
I few times watched this episod, and I agree with you, man. Sure bullets may changes direction when hit some material, but the direction of the hole in the shield looks like you sad.
If there was provocateur snipers,they would need to shoot just a few shots to start a gunfight between two sides.We all saw police and maidan people using guns but that doesnt mean either side (on the ground,not hidden) started it. This will be impossible to determine even if there is a will to do so.
On March 06 2014 06:56 likeasu wrote: what is the tracer on 16:04 ????? oO
any ideas?
I'd say a ricochet.
Not 100% sure but i think i hear an impact before the tracer is visible.
edit: watching a bit further, 17:07 or something, .. I don't know. Hitting someone clearly, and trying to get a kill on him while he's crawling away and CLEARLY bleeding somewhere on the chest-area.. Animals, seriously. These are WW2 tactics.
On March 06 2014 06:34 maybenexttime wrote: @DeepElemBlues
"maybe some Poles could explain how the US ate them up"
Funny you ask. 70-90% of our trade, industry and banking are owned by western capital. The vast majority of profits are transfered out of the country. Our wage share in GDP is 2-3 lower than that of "the West" with no hope of getting any better.
Wage gain in the west is slowing due to competition from Poland and other countries with low wages. If we wait ~100 years in the current development direction Poland will have similar wages to other EU countries at the time.
On March 06 2014 05:52 likeasu wrote: Russian mass media... Ukrainin mass media... American mass media... Europe mass media... only time will show where truth is... Truth is out there
We said the same thing at a lunch discussion today. We estimated 50 years until the truth is decided.
Not 100% sure but i think i hear an impact before the tracer is visible.
tracer was light BEFORE hit the column with lamp.
Because it hit something before hitting that lamp. You do see how slow it flies, right? If it is a bullet, judging by the direction and the googlemap, it might have hit the streetsign/poster thing on the other side of the road beforehand. Not to mention that the direction it was flying was wrong, the tracer went nowhere near the stuff they were shooting at.
On March 06 2014 05:52 likeasu wrote: Russian mass media... Ukrainin mass media... American mass media... Europe mass media... only time will show where truth is... Truth is out there
We said the same thing at a lunch discussion today. We estimated 50 years until the truth is decided.
After 50 years 'truth' always sides with the winners
There are reports that Ukrainian Military Radio Reconnaissance has already intercepted lots of communications between Russians. One of those was described as a conversation between Putin and smb in Crimea in which Putin was wondering why Ukrainians are not firing at anyone and whether Russians did enough to provoke them.
On March 06 2014 07:12 Cheerio wrote: There are reports that Ukrainian Military Radio Reconnaissance has already intercepted lots of communications between Russians. One of those was described as a conversation between Putin and smb in Crimea in which Putin was wondering why Ukrainians are not firing at anyone and whether Russians did enough to provoke them.
Is there some reliable source, or just hearsay?
Edit: not that it would surprise me, most people here already agreed that russia tried to get ukrainian soldiers to shoot the first bullet so they have a "reason" to go all out.
I really don't get this mass media thing. Just because big news agencies don't reinforce the weird opinions of some people that means they're not doing a good job?
"Hey this evil western independent(!) media stations have hundreds of professional journalists, who's job is literally to present facts in a manner that reflects what's really going on, but no, I'm gonna watch youtube and liveleak videos all day!"
On March 06 2014 07:12 Cheerio wrote: There are reports that Ukrainian Military Radio Reconnaissance has already intercepted lots of communications between Russians. One of those was described as a conversation between Putin and smb in Crimea in which Putin was wondering why Ukrainians are not firing at anyone and whether Russians did enough to provoke them.
That sounds extremely unlikely. You dont talk about stuff like that on unsecure channels.
On March 06 2014 07:12 Cheerio wrote: There are reports that Ukrainian Military Radio Reconnaissance has already intercepted lots of communications between Russians. One of those was described as a conversation between Putin and smb in Crimea in which Putin was wondering why Ukrainians are not firing at anyone and whether Russians did enough to provoke them.
That sounds extremely unlikely. You dont talk about stuff like that on unsecure channels.
These are the same people who say there are no Russian military forces in Crimea... I don't think they care about the truth.
On March 06 2014 07:12 Cheerio wrote: There are reports that Ukrainian Military Radio Reconnaissance has already intercepted lots of communications between Russians. One of those was described as a conversation between Putin and smb in Crimea in which Putin was wondering why Ukrainians are not firing at anyone and whether Russians did enough to provoke them.
That sounds extremely unlikely. You dont talk about stuff like that on unsecure channels.
These are the same people who say there are no Russian military forces in Crimea... I don't think they care about the truth.
Am i missing something?
Edit: it's the ukrainian military that listened to a conversation (seemingly), i don't think they're the same people who say there are no russian forces in crimea.
Not 100% sure but i think i hear an impact before the tracer is visible.
tracer was light BEFORE hit the column with lamp.
Because it hit something before hitting that lamp. You do see how slow it flies, right? If it is a bullet, judging by the direction and the googlemap, it might have hit the streetsign/poster thing on the other side of the road beforehand. Not to mention that the direction it was flying was wrong, the tracer went nowhere near the stuff they were shooting at.
usually i would think maybe or even probably could be a ricochet, but if you check the video the guy with the shield and the guy running hit in the knee is most likely hit from north north-east, the same direction it is coming from.
the guy hit in the knee is hit running down in the cone of the shield guy.
the tracer is coming from approx area where the shots that took down shield guy and knee guy looks like they were coming from. i think it's maybe coming in a bit low? but hard to say and that shield guy was hit tops half a meter above the ground way lower than that thing.
On March 06 2014 07:14 Nyxisto wrote: I really don't get this mass media thing. Just because big news agencies don't reinforce the weird opinions of some people that means they're not doing a good job?
Well if you are a Western guy, its not surprising that you are cynical even in a situation like this. After WMD in Iraq and Snowden reveals its easy to just autodiscount a lot of info or accept that Russian media is only lying as much as the American. And if you live in Russia, well part of this project is just good old fashioned score keeping -- hey we get to be a big power too -- and part of it is their paralegal information universe as exhibit by actions/commentary in regards to not just Ukrainian protesters but also the motives of the UN/NATO/Estonians/etc. And then its just a self reinforcing cycle. If I have an intercept call from someone in the West raising the possibility that all snipers were Ukrainian provocateurs then I put the denials of it in the same column as I put Russian claims that all those super well armed, well trained, expensively outfitted guys are just 'local self defense units'
I'm getting the feeling Russia no longer cares about what image it presents of itself to anyone other than their own people. Pretty worrying in and of itself...
On March 06 2014 06:27 mahrgell wrote: Btw, Turkish media reported this morning, that Turkish officials had given permission for the passage of an US ship into the Black Sea. From what I read about it, they talked about 'a ship' in singular, so it would not be the GHWBush-Carriergroup, as reported yesterday by US media sources... Anyone has any details on it?
Well, you won't get any info on ship movements from those in the U.S., but if I were the US Navy, I would probably be sending at least an Aegis ship there to monitor aircraft and missiles...
On March 06 2014 06:34 maybenexttime wrote: @DeepElemBlues
"maybe some Poles could explain how the US ate them up"
Funny you ask. 70-90% of our trade, industry and banking are owned by western capital. The vast majority of profits are transfered out of the country. Our wage share in GDP is 2-3 lower than that of "the West" with no hope of getting any better.
Oddly enough that seems to be kind of irrelevant (70-90% of trade, industry and banking being owned by western capital being bad is a political and ideological, not economic, argument, and is characteristic of marxist or quasi-marxist critiques whose opposition to such things is a matter of dogma not analysis) or, well, false.
Perhaps that article is all nonsense but it paints a very very different picture of the Polish economy than you do, including things like where profits go (it says money is pouring in to Poland), income, whether there is a chance for things to get better, etc. How do you think "70-90%" (if that is even true) of Polish trade, industry and banking came to be "owned" by "Western capital"? Through Western capital investment in Poland, duh. I don't think Poles were just giving away things for free to Western plutocrats, comrade.
What was Poland's wage share of GDP compared to that of the West before the breakup of the Warsaw Pact? I don't know and I bet you don't either, and I also bet that it was much worse than "2-3 [times] lower than that of 'the West.'" Poland is not an example of the developed West exploiting and hollowing out a developing country for profit.
On March 06 2014 07:12 Cheerio wrote: There are reports that Ukrainian Military Radio Reconnaissance has already intercepted lots of communications between Russians. One of those was described as a conversation between Putin and smb in Crimea in which Putin was wondering why Ukrainians are not firing at anyone and whether Russians did enough to provoke them.
That sounds extremely unlikely. You dont talk about stuff like that on unsecure channels.
These are the same people who say there are no Russian military forces in Crimea... I don't think they care about the truth.
Am i missing something?
Edit: it's the ukrainian military that listened to a conversation (seemingly), i don't think they're the same people who say there are no russian forces in crimea.
Yes, I was talking about the Russians and Putin, not the Ukrainians.
If my statement was out of place sorry, I am just irritated that the official Russian position is that they have no forces in Crimea. Blatant lying when they know everyone knows they are lying.
Not 100% sure but i think i hear an impact before the tracer is visible.
tracer was light BEFORE hit the column with lamp.
Because it hit something before hitting that lamp. You do see how slow it flies, right? If it is a bullet, judging by the direction and the googlemap, it might have hit the streetsign/poster thing on the other side of the road beforehand. Not to mention that the direction it was flying was wrong, the tracer went nowhere near the stuff they were shooting at.
usually i would think maybe or even probably could be a ricochet, but if you check the video the guy with the shield and the guy running hit in the knee is most likely hit from north north-east, the same direction it is coming from. + Show Spoiler +
the guy hit in the knee is hit running down in the cone of the shield guy.
the tracer is coming from approx area where the shots that took down shield guy and knee guy looks like they were coming from. i think it's maybe coming in a bit low? but hard to say and that shield guy was hit tops half a meter above the ground way lower than that thing.
I try to picture what i mean in a second, but just listen from 16:04 to 16:08 or smth, it's three shots, one of which (first) has kind of a "double tap" sound. I can't say where the bullet came from originally, though - i can't stand watching people getting hit, makes me rage and kinda hard to stay at least objective.
The more i watch it, the more i am convinced it's a riccochet, the tracer joins the picture immediately after the "second part of the double-pop sound".
I also think the 12:24 guy was shot more from north east, like proper north east. North-Northeast would have hit the shield from behind (NNE is the ruin/constructionsite behind them, for example).
On March 06 2014 06:27 mahrgell wrote: Btw, Turkish media reported this morning, that Turkish officials had given permission for the passage of an US ship into the Black Sea. From what I read about it, they talked about 'a ship' in singular, so it would not be the GHWBush-Carriergroup, as reported yesterday by US media sources... Anyone has any details on it?
Well, you won't get any info on ship movements from those in the U.S., but if I were the US Navy, I would probably be sending at least an Aegis ship there to monitor aircraft and missiles...
They should just scrub of all the USN numbers/identifiers and declare themselves 'local crimean self defense forces' too.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zYTCHMG.png)
