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Anti Rape Underwear - Page 14

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Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7032 Posts
November 07 2013 19:07 GMT
#261
On November 08 2013 03:57 Severedevil wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 08 2013 03:54 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:52 Severedevil wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:51 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:48 oBlade wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:41 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:32 Severedevil wrote:
On November 08 2013 02:16 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Getting your girlfriend to have sex even if she's not in the mood
etc...

How is that an act of rape? Is your girlfriend some kind of pathetic subhuman pet incapable of deciding for herself whether she wants to fuck?


Does she want to have sex? No. Did you have sex with her anyway? Yes. That's rape, by definition.

Sure, you didn't have to hit her.
Sure, she's not violently injured.

But coercing her into having sex with you is rape.


You're injecting coercion into the example when there wasn't any to begin with. The way you first wrote it,
Getting your girlfriend to have sex even if she's not in the mood

there's no a priori reason to suspect something nefarious. For instance, convincing someone to go to bed with you would just be seduction or romance.


Getting people to do what they don't want to is coercion, by definition.

co·er·cion
kōˈərZHən,-SHən/
noun
noun: coercion; plural noun: coercions

1.
the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats.


Are you saying words can't be threatening?
Are you saying that making you unhappy can't be threatening?

By this logic, asking any person to do anything constitutes coercion, because any request carries with it the implication that you want them to do that thing, and therefore if they do not do that thing, you will be less happy.

It's like my brother who when he was 15 said that forced attendance of family dinners were an infringement on his human rights and that the inability to choose your family was a cosmic injustice.
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
November 07 2013 19:10 GMT
#262
On November 08 2013 03:57 Severedevil wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 08 2013 03:54 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:52 Severedevil wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:51 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:48 oBlade wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:41 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:32 Severedevil wrote:
On November 08 2013 02:16 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Getting your girlfriend to have sex even if she's not in the mood
etc...

How is that an act of rape? Is your girlfriend some kind of pathetic subhuman pet incapable of deciding for herself whether she wants to fuck?


Does she want to have sex? No. Did you have sex with her anyway? Yes. That's rape, by definition.

Sure, you didn't have to hit her.
Sure, she's not violently injured.

But coercing her into having sex with you is rape.


You're injecting coercion into the example when there wasn't any to begin with. The way you first wrote it,
Getting your girlfriend to have sex even if she's not in the mood

there's no a priori reason to suspect something nefarious. For instance, convincing someone to go to bed with you would just be seduction or romance.


Getting people to do what they don't want to is coercion, by definition.

co·er·cion
kōˈərZHən,-SHən/
noun
noun: coercion; plural noun: coercions

1.
the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats.


Are you saying words can't be threatening?
Are you saying that making you unhappy can't be threatening?

By this logic, asking any person to do anything constitutes coercion, because any request carries with it the implication that you want them to do that thing, and therefore if they do not do that thing, you will be less happy.


It depends on the relationship and the power dynamic.

A boss asking you to have sex with them is different from a stranger in a bar and is different from a hooker in a street corner.

But being that domestic violence is one of the leading causes of injury to women, significant others and spouses are a lot more threatened by it statistically. And women know that.
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
November 07 2013 19:13 GMT
#263
On November 08 2013 04:07 Grumbels wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 08 2013 03:57 Severedevil wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:54 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:52 Severedevil wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:51 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:48 oBlade wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:41 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:32 Severedevil wrote:
On November 08 2013 02:16 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Getting your girlfriend to have sex even if she's not in the mood
etc...

How is that an act of rape? Is your girlfriend some kind of pathetic subhuman pet incapable of deciding for herself whether she wants to fuck?


Does she want to have sex? No. Did you have sex with her anyway? Yes. That's rape, by definition.

Sure, you didn't have to hit her.
Sure, she's not violently injured.

But coercing her into having sex with you is rape.


You're injecting coercion into the example when there wasn't any to begin with. The way you first wrote it,
Getting your girlfriend to have sex even if she's not in the mood

there's no a priori reason to suspect something nefarious. For instance, convincing someone to go to bed with you would just be seduction or romance.


Getting people to do what they don't want to is coercion, by definition.

co·er·cion
kōˈərZHən,-SHən/
noun
noun: coercion; plural noun: coercions

1.
the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats.


Are you saying words can't be threatening?
Are you saying that making you unhappy can't be threatening?

By this logic, asking any person to do anything constitutes coercion, because any request carries with it the implication that you want them to do that thing, and therefore if they do not do that thing, you will be less happy.

It's like my brother who when he was 15 said that forced attendance of family dinners were an infringement on his human rights and that the inability to choose your family was a cosmic injustice.


It depends when legal adulthood is in the country in question.

Forced family attendance when your 18 in the US is an absolute violation of a person's rights. Cosmetic injustice happens all the time as well, hence why Germany has now allowed for "neither" as a sex label for people born with both genitalia in order for that person to not be forced into one cosmetic form or another.
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
xM(Z
Profile Joined November 2006
Romania5299 Posts
November 07 2013 19:16 GMT
#264
if it'll end up in such a way that i'll have to get a judge/psychologist approval prior to having sex with my wife/gf/significant other, i'll just fuck dudes.
And my fury stands ready. I bring all your plans to nought. My bleak heart beats steady. 'Tis you whom I have sought.
gedatsu
Profile Joined December 2011
1286 Posts
November 07 2013 19:16 GMT
#265
On November 08 2013 03:54 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 08 2013 03:52 Severedevil wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:51 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:48 oBlade wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:41 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:32 Severedevil wrote:
On November 08 2013 02:16 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Getting your girlfriend to have sex even if she's not in the mood
etc...

How is that an act of rape? Is your girlfriend some kind of pathetic subhuman pet incapable of deciding for herself whether she wants to fuck?


Does she want to have sex? No. Did you have sex with her anyway? Yes. That's rape, by definition.

Sure, you didn't have to hit her.
Sure, she's not violently injured.

But coercing her into having sex with you is rape.


You're injecting coercion into the example when there wasn't any to begin with. The way you first wrote it,
Getting your girlfriend to have sex even if she's not in the mood

there's no a priori reason to suspect something nefarious. For instance, convincing someone to go to bed with you would just be seduction or romance.


Getting people to do what they don't want to is coercion, by definition.

co·er·cion
kōˈərZHən,-SHən/
noun
noun: coercion; plural noun: coercions

1.
the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats.


Are you saying words can't be threatening?
Are you saying that making you unhappy can't be threatening?

I tell my girlfriend that I want to have sex.
She says no.
I say that if she won't have sex with me, I'll break up with her.
She says ok.
We have sex.

Rape?
Kojak21
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada1104 Posts
November 07 2013 19:20 GMT
#266
On November 08 2013 04:16 gedatsu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 08 2013 03:54 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:52 Severedevil wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:51 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:48 oBlade wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:41 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:32 Severedevil wrote:
On November 08 2013 02:16 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Getting your girlfriend to have sex even if she's not in the mood
etc...

How is that an act of rape? Is your girlfriend some kind of pathetic subhuman pet incapable of deciding for herself whether she wants to fuck?


Does she want to have sex? No. Did you have sex with her anyway? Yes. That's rape, by definition.

Sure, you didn't have to hit her.
Sure, she's not violently injured.

But coercing her into having sex with you is rape.


You're injecting coercion into the example when there wasn't any to begin with. The way you first wrote it,
Getting your girlfriend to have sex even if she's not in the mood

there's no a priori reason to suspect something nefarious. For instance, convincing someone to go to bed with you would just be seduction or romance.


Getting people to do what they don't want to is coercion, by definition.

co·er·cion
kōˈərZHən,-SHən/
noun
noun: coercion; plural noun: coercions

1.
the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats.


Are you saying words can't be threatening?
Are you saying that making you unhappy can't be threatening?

I tell my girlfriend that I want to have sex.
She says no.
I say that if she won't have sex with me, I'll break up with her.
She says ok.
We have sex.

Rape?


nope cause she has the option to not do it and break up with you
¯\_(☺)_/¯
Severedevil
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States4839 Posts
November 07 2013 19:23 GMT
#267
On November 08 2013 03:44 farvacola wrote:
The dude called a woman who gives in to the sexual demands of her partner a "pathetic subhuman pet", I wouldn't expect much to move him.

Far to the contrary! I'm saying it is a human's choice to agree or reject propositions; it is a woman's choice whether she agrees to sex requested by her partner, or rejects it. Women, as adult human beings, are capable of making this decision for themselves. If you refuse her the right to make her own choices, you are treating her as a pathetic subhuman pet.

I oppose such condescending treatment of women.

On November 08 2013 04:10 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 08 2013 03:57 Severedevil wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:54 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:52 Severedevil wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:51 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:48 oBlade wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:41 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:32 Severedevil wrote:
On November 08 2013 02:16 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Getting your girlfriend to have sex even if she's not in the mood
etc...

How is that an act of rape? Is your girlfriend some kind of pathetic subhuman pet incapable of deciding for herself whether she wants to fuck?


Does she want to have sex? No. Did you have sex with her anyway? Yes. That's rape, by definition.

Sure, you didn't have to hit her.
Sure, she's not violently injured.

But coercing her into having sex with you is rape.


You're injecting coercion into the example when there wasn't any to begin with. The way you first wrote it,
Getting your girlfriend to have sex even if she's not in the mood

there's no a priori reason to suspect something nefarious. For instance, convincing someone to go to bed with you would just be seduction or romance.


Getting people to do what they don't want to is coercion, by definition.

co·er·cion
kōˈərZHən,-SHən/
noun
noun: coercion; plural noun: coercions

1.
the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats.


Are you saying words can't be threatening?
Are you saying that making you unhappy can't be threatening?

By this logic, asking any person to do anything constitutes coercion, because any request carries with it the implication that you want them to do that thing, and therefore if they do not do that thing, you will be less happy.


It depends on the relationship and the power dynamic.

A boss asking you to have sex with them is different from a stranger in a bar and is different from a hooker in a street corner.

But being that domestic violence is one of the leading causes of injury to women, significant others and spouses are a lot more threatened by it statistically. And women know that.

If your significant other is a scary violent person who might hurt you if you refuse to abide by their requests, that is the problem.
My strategy is to fork people.
Severedevil
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States4839 Posts
November 07 2013 19:24 GMT
#268
On November 08 2013 04:20 Kojak21 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 08 2013 04:16 gedatsu wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:54 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:52 Severedevil wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:51 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:48 oBlade wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:41 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:32 Severedevil wrote:
On November 08 2013 02:16 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Getting your girlfriend to have sex even if she's not in the mood
etc...

How is that an act of rape? Is your girlfriend some kind of pathetic subhuman pet incapable of deciding for herself whether she wants to fuck?


Does she want to have sex? No. Did you have sex with her anyway? Yes. That's rape, by definition.

Sure, you didn't have to hit her.
Sure, she's not violently injured.

But coercing her into having sex with you is rape.


You're injecting coercion into the example when there wasn't any to begin with. The way you first wrote it,
Getting your girlfriend to have sex even if she's not in the mood

there's no a priori reason to suspect something nefarious. For instance, convincing someone to go to bed with you would just be seduction or romance.


Getting people to do what they don't want to is coercion, by definition.

co·er·cion
kōˈərZHən,-SHən/
noun
noun: coercion; plural noun: coercions

1.
the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats.


Are you saying words can't be threatening?
Are you saying that making you unhappy can't be threatening?

I tell my girlfriend that I want to have sex.
She says no.
I say that if she won't have sex with me, I'll break up with her.
She says ok.
We have sex.

Rape?


nope cause she has the option to not do it and break up with you

But she does not want to break up with you, and she does not want to have sex with you. You are forcing her to choose between two things she does not want. Therefore it is rape.
My strategy is to fork people.
dravernor
Profile Blog Joined May 2013
Netherlands6192 Posts
November 07 2013 19:24 GMT
#269
On November 08 2013 04:16 gedatsu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 08 2013 03:54 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:52 Severedevil wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:51 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:48 oBlade wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:41 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:32 Severedevil wrote:
On November 08 2013 02:16 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Getting your girlfriend to have sex even if she's not in the mood
etc...

How is that an act of rape? Is your girlfriend some kind of pathetic subhuman pet incapable of deciding for herself whether she wants to fuck?


Does she want to have sex? No. Did you have sex with her anyway? Yes. That's rape, by definition.

Sure, you didn't have to hit her.
Sure, she's not violently injured.

But coercing her into having sex with you is rape.


You're injecting coercion into the example when there wasn't any to begin with. The way you first wrote it,
Getting your girlfriend to have sex even if she's not in the mood

there's no a priori reason to suspect something nefarious. For instance, convincing someone to go to bed with you would just be seduction or romance.


Getting people to do what they don't want to is coercion, by definition.

co·er·cion
kōˈərZHən,-SHən/
noun
noun: coercion; plural noun: coercions

1.
the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats.


Are you saying words can't be threatening?
Are you saying that making you unhappy can't be threatening?

I tell my girlfriend that I want to have sex.
She says no.
I say that if she won't have sex with me, I'll break up with her.
She says ok.
We have sex.

Rape?


Not rape as she said 'ok', but an unfair situation to put someone in. If someone can propose that, or use it as a means to make someone do something then they are a shitty individual. Just saying.
<3
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States6678 Posts
November 07 2013 19:26 GMT
#270
On November 08 2013 03:44 farvacola wrote:
The dude called a woman who gives in to the sexual demands of her partner a "pathetic subhuman pet", I wouldn't expect much to move him.

He wasn't doing that, he was suggesting that was Thieving Magpie's view of women due to Thieving Magpie apparently not respecting that women are rational people and can make their own decisions.

On November 08 2013 04:10 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 08 2013 03:57 Severedevil wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:54 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:52 Severedevil wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:51 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:48 oBlade wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:41 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:32 Severedevil wrote:
On November 08 2013 02:16 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Getting your girlfriend to have sex even if she's not in the mood
etc...

How is that an act of rape? Is your girlfriend some kind of pathetic subhuman pet incapable of deciding for herself whether she wants to fuck?


Does she want to have sex? No. Did you have sex with her anyway? Yes. That's rape, by definition.

Sure, you didn't have to hit her.
Sure, she's not violently injured.

But coercing her into having sex with you is rape.


You're injecting coercion into the example when there wasn't any to begin with. The way you first wrote it,
Getting your girlfriend to have sex even if she's not in the mood

there's no a priori reason to suspect something nefarious. For instance, convincing someone to go to bed with you would just be seduction or romance.


Getting people to do what they don't want to is coercion, by definition.

co·er·cion
kōˈərZHən,-SHən/
noun
noun: coercion; plural noun: coercions

1.
the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats.


Are you saying words can't be threatening?
Are you saying that making you unhappy can't be threatening?

By this logic, asking any person to do anything constitutes coercion, because any request carries with it the implication that you want them to do that thing, and therefore if they do not do that thing, you will be less happy.


It depends on the relationship and the power dynamic.

A boss asking you to have sex with them is different from a stranger in a bar and is different from a hooker in a street corner.

But being that domestic violence is one of the leading causes of injury to women, significant others and spouses are a lot more threatened by it statistically. And women know that.

You have yet to connect the dots between the fact that domestic violence exists (which is an uncontroversial point) - and takes victims of any gender - and your conclusion that "Getting your girlfriend to have sex even if she's not in the mood" is categorically rape.
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
November 07 2013 19:26 GMT
#271
On November 08 2013 04:23 Severedevil wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 08 2013 03:44 farvacola wrote:
The dude called a woman who gives in to the sexual demands of her partner a "pathetic subhuman pet", I wouldn't expect much to move him.

Far to the contrary! I'm saying it is a human's choice to agree or reject propositions; it is a woman's choice whether she agrees to sex requested by her partner, or rejects it. Women, as adult human beings, are capable of making this decision for themselves. If you refuse her the right to make her own choices, you are treating her as a pathetic subhuman pet.

I oppose such condescending treatment of women.

Show nested quote +
On November 08 2013 04:10 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:57 Severedevil wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:54 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:52 Severedevil wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:51 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:48 oBlade wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:41 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:32 Severedevil wrote:
On November 08 2013 02:16 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Getting your girlfriend to have sex even if she's not in the mood
etc...

How is that an act of rape? Is your girlfriend some kind of pathetic subhuman pet incapable of deciding for herself whether she wants to fuck?


Does she want to have sex? No. Did you have sex with her anyway? Yes. That's rape, by definition.

Sure, you didn't have to hit her.
Sure, she's not violently injured.

But coercing her into having sex with you is rape.


You're injecting coercion into the example when there wasn't any to begin with. The way you first wrote it,
Getting your girlfriend to have sex even if she's not in the mood

there's no a priori reason to suspect something nefarious. For instance, convincing someone to go to bed with you would just be seduction or romance.


Getting people to do what they don't want to is coercion, by definition.

co·er·cion
kōˈərZHən,-SHən/
noun
noun: coercion; plural noun: coercions

1.
the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats.


Are you saying words can't be threatening?
Are you saying that making you unhappy can't be threatening?

By this logic, asking any person to do anything constitutes coercion, because any request carries with it the implication that you want them to do that thing, and therefore if they do not do that thing, you will be less happy.


It depends on the relationship and the power dynamic.

A boss asking you to have sex with them is different from a stranger in a bar and is different from a hooker in a street corner.

But being that domestic violence is one of the leading causes of injury to women, significant others and spouses are a lot more threatened by it statistically. And women know that.

If your significant other is a scary violent person who might hurt you if you refuse to abide by their requests, that is the problem.


You don't have to hit someone for that someone to be aware of and careful of the overall milieu of their life as a woman on earth.
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
November 07 2013 19:27 GMT
#272
On November 08 2013 04:26 oBlade wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 08 2013 03:44 farvacola wrote:
The dude called a woman who gives in to the sexual demands of her partner a "pathetic subhuman pet", I wouldn't expect much to move him.

He wasn't doing that, he was suggesting that was Thieving Magpie's view of women due to Thieving Magpie apparently not respecting that women are rational people and can make their own decisions.

Show nested quote +
On November 08 2013 04:10 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:57 Severedevil wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:54 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:52 Severedevil wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:51 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:48 oBlade wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:41 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:32 Severedevil wrote:
On November 08 2013 02:16 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Getting your girlfriend to have sex even if she's not in the mood
etc...

How is that an act of rape? Is your girlfriend some kind of pathetic subhuman pet incapable of deciding for herself whether she wants to fuck?


Does she want to have sex? No. Did you have sex with her anyway? Yes. That's rape, by definition.

Sure, you didn't have to hit her.
Sure, she's not violently injured.

But coercing her into having sex with you is rape.


You're injecting coercion into the example when there wasn't any to begin with. The way you first wrote it,
Getting your girlfriend to have sex even if she's not in the mood

there's no a priori reason to suspect something nefarious. For instance, convincing someone to go to bed with you would just be seduction or romance.


Getting people to do what they don't want to is coercion, by definition.

co·er·cion
kōˈərZHən,-SHən/
noun
noun: coercion; plural noun: coercions

1.
the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats.


Are you saying words can't be threatening?
Are you saying that making you unhappy can't be threatening?

By this logic, asking any person to do anything constitutes coercion, because any request carries with it the implication that you want them to do that thing, and therefore if they do not do that thing, you will be less happy.


It depends on the relationship and the power dynamic.

A boss asking you to have sex with them is different from a stranger in a bar and is different from a hooker in a street corner.

But being that domestic violence is one of the leading causes of injury to women, significant others and spouses are a lot more threatened by it statistically. And women know that.

You have yet to connect the dots between the fact that domestic violence exists (which is an uncontroversial point) - and takes victims of any gender - and your conclusion that "Getting your girlfriend to have sex even if she's not in the mood" is categorically rape.


If she does not want to have sex with you, but you make her have sex with you anyway, it doesn't stop being rape just because you don't punch her.
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
DonKey_
Profile Joined May 2010
Liechtenstein1356 Posts
November 07 2013 19:28 GMT
#273
On November 08 2013 03:51 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 08 2013 03:48 oBlade wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:41 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:32 Severedevil wrote:
On November 08 2013 02:16 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Getting your girlfriend to have sex even if she's not in the mood
etc...

How is that an act of rape? Is your girlfriend some kind of pathetic subhuman pet incapable of deciding for herself whether she wants to fuck?


Does she want to have sex? No. Did you have sex with her anyway? Yes. That's rape, by definition.

Sure, you didn't have to hit her.
Sure, she's not violently injured.

But coercing her into having sex with you is rape.


You're injecting coercion into the example when there wasn't any to begin with. The way you first wrote it,
Getting your girlfriend to have sex even if she's not in the mood

there's no a priori reason to suspect something nefarious. For instance, convincing someone to go to bed with you would just be seduction or romance.


Getting people to do what they don't want to is coercion, by definition.

This feels like a lot of word play. 90%(BS made up number)of men or women are not going to consider "Getting your girlfriend to have sex even if she's not in the mood etc..." as rape. That kind of interpretation of rape is dangerous and is part of what creates the victim blaming, when individuals view a victim as claiming something along the lines of what you said, rather than the commonly accepted version of rape.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
November 07 2013 19:30 GMT
#274
On November 08 2013 04:28 DonKey_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 08 2013 03:51 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:48 oBlade wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:41 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:32 Severedevil wrote:
On November 08 2013 02:16 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Getting your girlfriend to have sex even if she's not in the mood
etc...

How is that an act of rape? Is your girlfriend some kind of pathetic subhuman pet incapable of deciding for herself whether she wants to fuck?


Does she want to have sex? No. Did you have sex with her anyway? Yes. That's rape, by definition.

Sure, you didn't have to hit her.
Sure, she's not violently injured.

But coercing her into having sex with you is rape.


You're injecting coercion into the example when there wasn't any to begin with. The way you first wrote it,
Getting your girlfriend to have sex even if she's not in the mood

there's no a priori reason to suspect something nefarious. For instance, convincing someone to go to bed with you would just be seduction or romance.


Getting people to do what they don't want to is coercion, by definition.

This feels like a lot of word play. 90%(BS made up number)of men or women are not going to consider "Getting your girlfriend to have sex even if she's not in the mood etc..." as rape. That kind of interpretation of rape is dangerous and is part of what creates the victim blaming, when individuals view a victim as claiming something along the lines of what you said, rather than the commonly accepted version of rape.


Wait, you think a woman being made to do what she doesn't want to do being classified as rape is the cause of victim blaming and not the actual act of victim blaming that happens when women try to speak up about rape?
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
NovaTheFeared
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
United States7232 Posts
November 07 2013 19:32 GMT
#275
On November 08 2013 04:27 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 08 2013 04:26 oBlade wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:44 farvacola wrote:
The dude called a woman who gives in to the sexual demands of her partner a "pathetic subhuman pet", I wouldn't expect much to move him.

He wasn't doing that, he was suggesting that was Thieving Magpie's view of women due to Thieving Magpie apparently not respecting that women are rational people and can make their own decisions.

On November 08 2013 04:10 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:57 Severedevil wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:54 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:52 Severedevil wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:51 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:48 oBlade wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:41 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:32 Severedevil wrote:
[quote]
How is that an act of rape? Is your girlfriend some kind of pathetic subhuman pet incapable of deciding for herself whether she wants to fuck?


Does she want to have sex? No. Did you have sex with her anyway? Yes. That's rape, by definition.

Sure, you didn't have to hit her.
Sure, she's not violently injured.

But coercing her into having sex with you is rape.


You're injecting coercion into the example when there wasn't any to begin with. The way you first wrote it,
Getting your girlfriend to have sex even if she's not in the mood

there's no a priori reason to suspect something nefarious. For instance, convincing someone to go to bed with you would just be seduction or romance.


Getting people to do what they don't want to is coercion, by definition.

co·er·cion
kōˈərZHən,-SHən/
noun
noun: coercion; plural noun: coercions

1.
the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats.


Are you saying words can't be threatening?
Are you saying that making you unhappy can't be threatening?

By this logic, asking any person to do anything constitutes coercion, because any request carries with it the implication that you want them to do that thing, and therefore if they do not do that thing, you will be less happy.


It depends on the relationship and the power dynamic.

A boss asking you to have sex with them is different from a stranger in a bar and is different from a hooker in a street corner.

But being that domestic violence is one of the leading causes of injury to women, significant others and spouses are a lot more threatened by it statistically. And women know that.

You have yet to connect the dots between the fact that domestic violence exists (which is an uncontroversial point) - and takes victims of any gender - and your conclusion that "Getting your girlfriend to have sex even if she's not in the mood" is categorically rape.


If she does not want to have sex with you, but you make her have sex with you anyway, it doesn't stop being rape just because you don't punch her.


If by force or threat of force, that's one thing. But you make it sound as if a boyfriend who persuades his girlfriend to have sex despite her initial reluctance, in the absence of force or threat, is also rape. Is that your position?
日本語が分かりますか
packrat386
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States5077 Posts
November 07 2013 19:33 GMT
#276
On November 08 2013 04:28 DonKey_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 08 2013 03:51 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:48 oBlade wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:41 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:32 Severedevil wrote:
On November 08 2013 02:16 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Getting your girlfriend to have sex even if she's not in the mood
etc...

How is that an act of rape? Is your girlfriend some kind of pathetic subhuman pet incapable of deciding for herself whether she wants to fuck?


Does she want to have sex? No. Did you have sex with her anyway? Yes. That's rape, by definition.

Sure, you didn't have to hit her.
Sure, she's not violently injured.

But coercing her into having sex with you is rape.


You're injecting coercion into the example when there wasn't any to begin with. The way you first wrote it,
Getting your girlfriend to have sex even if she's not in the mood

there's no a priori reason to suspect something nefarious. For instance, convincing someone to go to bed with you would just be seduction or romance.


Getting people to do what they don't want to is coercion, by definition.

This feels like a lot of word play. 90%(BS made up number)of men or women are not going to consider "Getting your girlfriend to have sex even if she's not in the mood etc..." as rape. That kind of interpretation of rape is dangerous and is part of what creates the victim blaming, when individuals view a victim as claiming something along the lines of what you said, rather than the commonly accepted version of rape.

OH BOY I CAN POST AGAIN

the commonly accepted version of rape is highly problematic. People complain that its unnecessary to focus on "rape culture", but most guys don't realize that if you were to say, get a girl fall down drunk and have sex with her, that's rape. Not only are these practices relatively accepted, they are actively promoted on college campuses by various groups. Using the "commonly accepted version of rape" is a terrible standard.
dreaming of a sunny day
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
November 07 2013 19:33 GMT
#277
On November 08 2013 04:32 NovaTheFeared wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 08 2013 04:27 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 04:26 oBlade wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:44 farvacola wrote:
The dude called a woman who gives in to the sexual demands of her partner a "pathetic subhuman pet", I wouldn't expect much to move him.

He wasn't doing that, he was suggesting that was Thieving Magpie's view of women due to Thieving Magpie apparently not respecting that women are rational people and can make their own decisions.

On November 08 2013 04:10 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:57 Severedevil wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:54 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:52 Severedevil wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:51 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:48 oBlade wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:41 Thieving Magpie wrote:
[quote]

Does she want to have sex? No. Did you have sex with her anyway? Yes. That's rape, by definition.

Sure, you didn't have to hit her.
Sure, she's not violently injured.

But coercing her into having sex with you is rape.


You're injecting coercion into the example when there wasn't any to begin with. The way you first wrote it,
Getting your girlfriend to have sex even if she's not in the mood

there's no a priori reason to suspect something nefarious. For instance, convincing someone to go to bed with you would just be seduction or romance.


Getting people to do what they don't want to is coercion, by definition.

co·er·cion
kōˈərZHən,-SHən/
noun
noun: coercion; plural noun: coercions

1.
the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats.


Are you saying words can't be threatening?
Are you saying that making you unhappy can't be threatening?

By this logic, asking any person to do anything constitutes coercion, because any request carries with it the implication that you want them to do that thing, and therefore if they do not do that thing, you will be less happy.


It depends on the relationship and the power dynamic.

A boss asking you to have sex with them is different from a stranger in a bar and is different from a hooker in a street corner.

But being that domestic violence is one of the leading causes of injury to women, significant others and spouses are a lot more threatened by it statistically. And women know that.

You have yet to connect the dots between the fact that domestic violence exists (which is an uncontroversial point) - and takes victims of any gender - and your conclusion that "Getting your girlfriend to have sex even if she's not in the mood" is categorically rape.


If she does not want to have sex with you, but you make her have sex with you anyway, it doesn't stop being rape just because you don't punch her.


If by force or threat of force, that's one thing. But you make it sound as if a boyfriend who persuades his girlfriend to have sex despite her initial reluctance, in the absence of force or threat, is also rape. Is that your position?


The idea that someone who doesn't want to have sex is merely "initial reluctance" is my problem.
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
NovaTheFeared
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
United States7232 Posts
November 07 2013 19:36 GMT
#278
On November 08 2013 04:33 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 08 2013 04:32 NovaTheFeared wrote:
On November 08 2013 04:27 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 04:26 oBlade wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:44 farvacola wrote:
The dude called a woman who gives in to the sexual demands of her partner a "pathetic subhuman pet", I wouldn't expect much to move him.

He wasn't doing that, he was suggesting that was Thieving Magpie's view of women due to Thieving Magpie apparently not respecting that women are rational people and can make their own decisions.

On November 08 2013 04:10 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:57 Severedevil wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:54 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:52 Severedevil wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:51 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:48 oBlade wrote:
[quote]
You're injecting coercion into the example when there wasn't any to begin with. The way you first wrote it,
[quote]
there's no a priori reason to suspect something nefarious. For instance, convincing someone to go to bed with you would just be seduction or romance.


Getting people to do what they don't want to is coercion, by definition.

co·er·cion
kōˈərZHən,-SHən/
noun
noun: coercion; plural noun: coercions

1.
the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats.


Are you saying words can't be threatening?
Are you saying that making you unhappy can't be threatening?

By this logic, asking any person to do anything constitutes coercion, because any request carries with it the implication that you want them to do that thing, and therefore if they do not do that thing, you will be less happy.


It depends on the relationship and the power dynamic.

A boss asking you to have sex with them is different from a stranger in a bar and is different from a hooker in a street corner.

But being that domestic violence is one of the leading causes of injury to women, significant others and spouses are a lot more threatened by it statistically. And women know that.

You have yet to connect the dots between the fact that domestic violence exists (which is an uncontroversial point) - and takes victims of any gender - and your conclusion that "Getting your girlfriend to have sex even if she's not in the mood" is categorically rape.


If she does not want to have sex with you, but you make her have sex with you anyway, it doesn't stop being rape just because you don't punch her.


If by force or threat of force, that's one thing. But you make it sound as if a boyfriend who persuades his girlfriend to have sex despite her initial reluctance, in the absence of force or threat, is also rape. Is that your position?


The idea that someone who doesn't want to have sex is merely "initial reluctance" is my problem.


That's interesting, then. You don't believe a person can be persuaded to have sex, because that makes it rape.
日本語が分かりますか
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
November 07 2013 19:39 GMT
#279
On November 08 2013 04:36 NovaTheFeared wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 08 2013 04:33 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 04:32 NovaTheFeared wrote:
On November 08 2013 04:27 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 04:26 oBlade wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:44 farvacola wrote:
The dude called a woman who gives in to the sexual demands of her partner a "pathetic subhuman pet", I wouldn't expect much to move him.

He wasn't doing that, he was suggesting that was Thieving Magpie's view of women due to Thieving Magpie apparently not respecting that women are rational people and can make their own decisions.

On November 08 2013 04:10 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:57 Severedevil wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:54 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:52 Severedevil wrote:
On November 08 2013 03:51 Thieving Magpie wrote:
[quote]

Getting people to do what they don't want to is coercion, by definition.

co·er·cion
kōˈərZHən,-SHən/
noun
noun: coercion; plural noun: coercions

1.
the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats.


Are you saying words can't be threatening?
Are you saying that making you unhappy can't be threatening?

By this logic, asking any person to do anything constitutes coercion, because any request carries with it the implication that you want them to do that thing, and therefore if they do not do that thing, you will be less happy.


It depends on the relationship and the power dynamic.

A boss asking you to have sex with them is different from a stranger in a bar and is different from a hooker in a street corner.

But being that domestic violence is one of the leading causes of injury to women, significant others and spouses are a lot more threatened by it statistically. And women know that.

You have yet to connect the dots between the fact that domestic violence exists (which is an uncontroversial point) - and takes victims of any gender - and your conclusion that "Getting your girlfriend to have sex even if she's not in the mood" is categorically rape.


If she does not want to have sex with you, but you make her have sex with you anyway, it doesn't stop being rape just because you don't punch her.


If by force or threat of force, that's one thing. But you make it sound as if a boyfriend who persuades his girlfriend to have sex despite her initial reluctance, in the absence of force or threat, is also rape. Is that your position?


The idea that someone who doesn't want to have sex is merely "initial reluctance" is my problem.


That's interesting, then. You don't believe a person can be persuaded to have sex, because that makes it rape.


No, I believe that the mindset that a woman saying no is just invitation for you to pursue her is what causes not only rape culture, victim blaming, and unintentional violent sexual assault acts--but is also a side effect of a society who so deeply ingrains the concept that a woman's body is not under her control that they teach men AND women to believe that saying no as foreplay is normal.
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
Zealos
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United Kingdom3576 Posts
November 07 2013 19:40 GMT
#280
On November 08 2013 02:12 gedatsu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 08 2013 01:53 Zealos wrote:
How is not joking and talking about it as if it is nothing not normalizing it?

Disregarding rape in prison settings, very few people do that. Usually they are the rapist, an accessory to the rape, or a close relative or friend to the rapist. These are, on the large scale of things, only a handful of people. By far the majority of people strongly condemn rape. Convicted rapists often require special protection in prison, because the other inmates will consider them the scum of the earth.

Or perhaps you are talking about jokes made about people you've never met and never will meet. I myself have told jokes about the Fritzl case, for example, because there's a clever pun about it that can be made in Swedish. "Har du släckt i källaren" means "did you turn off the lights in the basement", while "har du släkt i källaren" means "do you have family (members) in the basement". That doesn't mean I don't think it was a horrible crime. It's no different than making jokes about Hitler or slavery or Mao.

Anyway. The point is that you can joke about anything, without supporting the crime or disaster behind it. Very few people would laugh in the face of the victim.

You don't have to laugh in the face of a victim. If you make a joke about it on fb, for example, on average you're reminding around 5 women of the worst moment of their life.
On the internet if you disagree with or dislike something you're angry and taking it too seriously. == Join TLMafia !
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