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On August 01 2013 01:47 shmget wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 01:06 Thieving Magpie wrote:
When you verbally attack a gay person, its homophobia.
and if you did not know that that someone is gay does that still count as homophobia ? if you learn after the fact, does that change retro-actively your state of mind at the time and make you an homophobe ? What I hope you meant is 'verbally attacking someone _for being gay_ is homophobia'
Yes yes it is. For example, calling someone a "faggot" (even if it is a straight person) a) assumes that they are gay, b) says that this is something to be ashamed of and signifies that you think less of them as a human being as a result. You cannot use homophobic language without being a homophobe, it doesn't matter if you lack a particular intention to be homophobic, I don't know why this is so hard to comprehend. It's like saying I can insult Jews when they're not around me and not be anti-semitic as a result, it's absurd reasoning.
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On August 01 2013 01:19 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Gay jokes are homophobic, female jokes are sexist, race jokes are racist. They're all bad, and they're all part of the community we are in both online and offline.
It being the internet doesn't make it okay to do any of it.
Any kind of joke is <something>-phobic by this standard and therefore are bad... Jokes must be banned....
example:
Belgian joke: "why is there no lighting on French Autoroute (Interstate Highway in the US)... because they all think they are so bright!"
French Joke: "why do Belgian do not practice water-skying.... because they can't find a lake steep enough"
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On August 01 2013 01:49 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 01:46 ComaDose wrote:On August 01 2013 01:43 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:42 Thieving Magpie wrote:On August 01 2013 01:40 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:39 Thieving Magpie wrote:On August 01 2013 01:33 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:32 ComaDose wrote:On August 01 2013 01:28 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:21 Drake wrote:
[quote]
sure its generless hate but sometimes, jokes, and i mean agressive ones, just fit better with females so idiots do them without thinking.
as example i really wonder no one said shit like "in the kitchen" as answer to this thread ...
people normaly just are dicks and its just often easier being a dick to girls So why is it people throw such a huge fit when it comes to insulting women on the internet, when other people regularly insult others with racist terms, derogatory terms, etc.? You know how many times I've seen 'You're a faggot' and I haven't seen one gay person complain about it? Or how when someone drops the n bomb towards black people online. Why is it women in particular get this special treatment? Everyone else from every other walk of life gets pretty harsh abuse themselves. This is exactly why I call someone like Plansix or Theiving Magpie white knights, because they are talking up about a problem that is virtually non-existent. Yes, some assholes are being sexist to be sexist. However, said same assholes probably call me all sorts of Asian related derogatory terms, yet I don't make a huge fuss 'THE INTERNET IS OUT TO GET ASIAN PEOPLE.' pick your battles man. if you have never seen any upset about the use of the word "faggot" i don't know what you do for news. why is the battle you are picking to fight against those that want sexual abuse of women to stop :S ^^^ This is exactly why I hate people like you. You have the biggest double standards ever. It's not about 'picking battles' it's about people complaining about a non-existent problem. The problem isn't 'everyone is a jackass to women' the problem is everyone is a jackass to everyone else on the internet. They are two separate problems that should be fixed... The existence of one should not diminish the existence of the other. Both groups being attacked simply means that the community is *both* sexists and misogynistic. Are we really supposed to stop trying to make things better for one social group because another social group also has problems? There is no systematic abuse of females in competitive gaming. At all. Until you can prove there is, you don't have to preach 'oh we need to stop this abuse against females!' Like I said, the problem isn't 'female only.' The problem is lots of people on the internet are assholes. If the community attacks women, then there is a problem in the community. If the community attacks gays, then there is a problem in the community. The problems do not disappear just because many social groups are being attacked, it just means the community is more fucked up than you believe. So you're agreeing that it's not just females being attacked, and that they aren't the only ones who get 'verbally attacked' on the internet? Because now you're just proving my point. what no he has been reiterating that there are lots of problems for like 2 pages now are you serious? Main point is that you're bitching about people being jackasses rather than about a specific problem about 'women being systematically discriminated against.' That's not a female only issue, it's a lots of people are an assholes on the internet issue. Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 01:46 Thieving Magpie wrote:On August 01 2013 01:43 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:42 Thieving Magpie wrote:On August 01 2013 01:40 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:39 Thieving Magpie wrote:On August 01 2013 01:33 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:32 ComaDose wrote:On August 01 2013 01:28 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:21 Drake wrote:
[quote]
sure its generless hate but sometimes, jokes, and i mean agressive ones, just fit better with females so idiots do them without thinking.
as example i really wonder no one said shit like "in the kitchen" as answer to this thread ...
people normaly just are dicks and its just often easier being a dick to girls So why is it people throw such a huge fit when it comes to insulting women on the internet, when other people regularly insult others with racist terms, derogatory terms, etc.? You know how many times I've seen 'You're a faggot' and I haven't seen one gay person complain about it? Or how when someone drops the n bomb towards black people online. Why is it women in particular get this special treatment? Everyone else from every other walk of life gets pretty harsh abuse themselves. This is exactly why I call someone like Plansix or Theiving Magpie white knights, because they are talking up about a problem that is virtually non-existent. Yes, some assholes are being sexist to be sexist. However, said same assholes probably call me all sorts of Asian related derogatory terms, yet I don't make a huge fuss 'THE INTERNET IS OUT TO GET ASIAN PEOPLE.' pick your battles man. if you have never seen any upset about the use of the word "faggot" i don't know what you do for news. why is the battle you are picking to fight against those that want sexual abuse of women to stop :S ^^^ This is exactly why I hate people like you. You have the biggest double standards ever. It's not about 'picking battles' it's about people complaining about a non-existent problem. The problem isn't 'everyone is a jackass to women' the problem is everyone is a jackass to everyone else on the internet. They are two separate problems that should be fixed... The existence of one should not diminish the existence of the other. Both groups being attacked simply means that the community is *both* sexists and misogynistic. Are we really supposed to stop trying to make things better for one social group because another social group also has problems? There is no systematic abuse of females in competitive gaming. At all. Until you can prove there is, you don't have to preach 'oh we need to stop this abuse against females!' Like I said, the problem isn't 'female only.' The problem is lots of people on the internet are assholes. If the community attacks women, then there is a problem in the community. If the community attacks gays, then there is a problem in the community. The problems do not disappear just because many social groups are being attacked, it just means the community is more fucked up than you believe. So you're agreeing that it's not just females being attacked, and that they aren't the only ones who get 'verbally attacked' on the internet? Because now you're just proving my point. I'm agreeing that women get attacked, and that needs to be fixed. I'm also agreeing that homosexuals are attacked, and that needs to be fixed. I think the community is very misogynistic, and that its a problem. I also think a large section of the community is also homophobic. And I believe people like you wish to suppress critiques on the community because you feel threatened that you are being accused of misogyny, homophobia, and racism. And I believe that if you are okay with the community making those types of attacks that you are supportive of those deeds. Whoa now, so when you get caught with your pants down in your argument, all of a sudden I'm getting personally attacked. Good job.
Says the man who calls everyone in this thread a White Knight. Its not like people here are making some ground breaking argument. Sexism is still a problem in the world and its likely a problem in gaming. Ignoring the problem won't make it go away. There are other problems too, but we can deal with those on a case by case basis.
I mean, you don't have to read this thread, so why do so? If you don't think its an issue and you aren't sexist, what is the problem with the discussion?
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On August 01 2013 01:57 shmget wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 01:19 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Gay jokes are homophobic, female jokes are sexist, race jokes are racist. They're all bad, and they're all part of the community we are in both online and offline.
It being the internet doesn't make it okay to do any of it.
Any kind of joke is <something>-phobic by this standard and therefore are bad... Jokes must be banned.... example: Belgian joke: "why is there no lighting on French Autoroute (Interstate Highway in the US)... because they all think they are so bright!" French Joke: "why do Belgian do not practice water-skying.... because they can't find a lake steep enough"
Off color human is always acceptable in the right company. However, it is also always "use at your own risk of offending someone". Context is key and you know this because you yelled at someone for context on the last page.
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On August 01 2013 01:47 shmget wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 01:06 Thieving Magpie wrote:
When you verbally attack a gay person, its homophobia.
and if you did not know that that someone is gay does that still count as homophobia ? if you learn after the fact, does that change retro-actively your state of mind at the time and make you an homophobe ? What I hope you meant is 'verbally attacking someone _for being gay_ is homophobia'
Believing that calling someone gay is an insult is, by definition, homophobic.
You need be someone who believes that gay < straight to be able to make that accusation.
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Northern Ireland26264 Posts
On August 01 2013 01:49 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 01:46 ComaDose wrote:On August 01 2013 01:43 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:42 Thieving Magpie wrote:On August 01 2013 01:40 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:39 Thieving Magpie wrote:On August 01 2013 01:33 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:32 ComaDose wrote:On August 01 2013 01:28 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:21 Drake wrote:
[quote]
sure its generless hate but sometimes, jokes, and i mean agressive ones, just fit better with females so idiots do them without thinking.
as example i really wonder no one said shit like "in the kitchen" as answer to this thread ...
people normaly just are dicks and its just often easier being a dick to girls So why is it people throw such a huge fit when it comes to insulting women on the internet, when other people regularly insult others with racist terms, derogatory terms, etc.? You know how many times I've seen 'You're a faggot' and I haven't seen one gay person complain about it? Or how when someone drops the n bomb towards black people online. Why is it women in particular get this special treatment? Everyone else from every other walk of life gets pretty harsh abuse themselves. This is exactly why I call someone like Plansix or Theiving Magpie white knights, because they are talking up about a problem that is virtually non-existent. Yes, some assholes are being sexist to be sexist. However, said same assholes probably call me all sorts of Asian related derogatory terms, yet I don't make a huge fuss 'THE INTERNET IS OUT TO GET ASIAN PEOPLE.' pick your battles man. if you have never seen any upset about the use of the word "faggot" i don't know what you do for news. why is the battle you are picking to fight against those that want sexual abuse of women to stop :S ^^^ This is exactly why I hate people like you. You have the biggest double standards ever. It's not about 'picking battles' it's about people complaining about a non-existent problem. The problem isn't 'everyone is a jackass to women' the problem is everyone is a jackass to everyone else on the internet. They are two separate problems that should be fixed... The existence of one should not diminish the existence of the other. Both groups being attacked simply means that the community is *both* sexists and misogynistic. Are we really supposed to stop trying to make things better for one social group because another social group also has problems? There is no systematic abuse of females in competitive gaming. At all. Until you can prove there is, you don't have to preach 'oh we need to stop this abuse against females!' Like I said, the problem isn't 'female only.' The problem is lots of people on the internet are assholes. If the community attacks women, then there is a problem in the community. If the community attacks gays, then there is a problem in the community. The problems do not disappear just because many social groups are being attacked, it just means the community is more fucked up than you believe. So you're agreeing that it's not just females being attacked, and that they aren't the only ones who get 'verbally attacked' on the internet? Because now you're just proving my point. what no he has been reiterating that there are lots of problems for like 2 pages now are you serious? Main point is that you're bitching about people being jackasses rather than about a specific problem about 'women being systematically discriminated against.' That's not a female only issue, it's a lots of people are an assholes on the internet issue. Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 01:46 Thieving Magpie wrote:On August 01 2013 01:43 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:42 Thieving Magpie wrote:On August 01 2013 01:40 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:39 Thieving Magpie wrote:On August 01 2013 01:33 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:32 ComaDose wrote:On August 01 2013 01:28 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:21 Drake wrote:
[quote]
sure its generless hate but sometimes, jokes, and i mean agressive ones, just fit better with females so idiots do them without thinking.
as example i really wonder no one said shit like "in the kitchen" as answer to this thread ...
people normaly just are dicks and its just often easier being a dick to girls So why is it people throw such a huge fit when it comes to insulting women on the internet, when other people regularly insult others with racist terms, derogatory terms, etc.? You know how many times I've seen 'You're a faggot' and I haven't seen one gay person complain about it? Or how when someone drops the n bomb towards black people online. Why is it women in particular get this special treatment? Everyone else from every other walk of life gets pretty harsh abuse themselves. This is exactly why I call someone like Plansix or Theiving Magpie white knights, because they are talking up about a problem that is virtually non-existent. Yes, some assholes are being sexist to be sexist. However, said same assholes probably call me all sorts of Asian related derogatory terms, yet I don't make a huge fuss 'THE INTERNET IS OUT TO GET ASIAN PEOPLE.' pick your battles man. if you have never seen any upset about the use of the word "faggot" i don't know what you do for news. why is the battle you are picking to fight against those that want sexual abuse of women to stop :S ^^^ This is exactly why I hate people like you. You have the biggest double standards ever. It's not about 'picking battles' it's about people complaining about a non-existent problem. The problem isn't 'everyone is a jackass to women' the problem is everyone is a jackass to everyone else on the internet. They are two separate problems that should be fixed... The existence of one should not diminish the existence of the other. Both groups being attacked simply means that the community is *both* sexists and misogynistic. Are we really supposed to stop trying to make things better for one social group because another social group also has problems? There is no systematic abuse of females in competitive gaming. At all. Until you can prove there is, you don't have to preach 'oh we need to stop this abuse against females!' Like I said, the problem isn't 'female only.' The problem is lots of people on the internet are assholes. If the community attacks women, then there is a problem in the community. If the community attacks gays, then there is a problem in the community. The problems do not disappear just because many social groups are being attacked, it just means the community is more fucked up than you believe. So you're agreeing that it's not just females being attacked, and that they aren't the only ones who get 'verbally attacked' on the internet? Because now you're just proving my point. I'm agreeing that women get attacked, and that needs to be fixed. I'm also agreeing that homosexuals are attacked, and that needs to be fixed. I think the community is very misogynistic, and that its a problem. I also think a large section of the community is also homophobic. And I believe people like you wish to suppress critiques on the community because you feel threatened that you are being accused of misogyny, homophobia, and racism. And I believe that if you are okay with the community making those types of attacks that you are supportive of those deeds. Whoa now, so when you get caught with your pants down in your argument, all of a sudden I'm getting personally attacked. Good job.
It's not the same thing. While I agree that using epithets does not necessarily reflect a discriminatory intent, it is that girls attract more attention online, positively and negatively if their handles are 'feminine'
Yeah, I get called a faggot on ladder, or BMed after a game. I don't get messages 'oh you're a girl tits or gtfo'
Plenty of women posting here and elsewhere say they get a real disproportionate amount of attention while playing games if it's known they're a chick. Regardless of treatment being good or bad, it's tempered by sexism
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On August 01 2013 01:58 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 01:49 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:46 ComaDose wrote:On August 01 2013 01:43 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:42 Thieving Magpie wrote:On August 01 2013 01:40 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:39 Thieving Magpie wrote:On August 01 2013 01:33 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:32 ComaDose wrote:On August 01 2013 01:28 superstartran wrote:
[quote]
So why is it people throw such a huge fit when it comes to insulting women on the internet, when other people regularly insult others with racist terms, derogatory terms, etc.? You know how many times I've seen 'You're a faggot' and I haven't seen one gay person complain about it? Or how when someone drops the n bomb towards black people online.
Why is it women in particular get this special treatment? Everyone else from every other walk of life gets pretty harsh abuse themselves. This is exactly why I call someone like Plansix or Theiving Magpie white knights, because they are talking up about a problem that is virtually non-existent. Yes, some assholes are being sexist to be sexist. However, said same assholes probably call me all sorts of Asian related derogatory terms, yet I don't make a huge fuss 'THE INTERNET IS OUT TO GET ASIAN PEOPLE.' pick your battles man. if you have never seen any upset about the use of the word "faggot" i don't know what you do for news. why is the battle you are picking to fight against those that want sexual abuse of women to stop :S ^^^ This is exactly why I hate people like you. You have the biggest double standards ever. It's not about 'picking battles' it's about people complaining about a non-existent problem. The problem isn't 'everyone is a jackass to women' the problem is everyone is a jackass to everyone else on the internet. They are two separate problems that should be fixed... The existence of one should not diminish the existence of the other. Both groups being attacked simply means that the community is *both* sexists and misogynistic. Are we really supposed to stop trying to make things better for one social group because another social group also has problems? There is no systematic abuse of females in competitive gaming. At all. Until you can prove there is, you don't have to preach 'oh we need to stop this abuse against females!' Like I said, the problem isn't 'female only.' The problem is lots of people on the internet are assholes. If the community attacks women, then there is a problem in the community. If the community attacks gays, then there is a problem in the community. The problems do not disappear just because many social groups are being attacked, it just means the community is more fucked up than you believe. So you're agreeing that it's not just females being attacked, and that they aren't the only ones who get 'verbally attacked' on the internet? Because now you're just proving my point. what no he has been reiterating that there are lots of problems for like 2 pages now are you serious? Main point is that you're bitching about people being jackasses rather than about a specific problem about 'women being systematically discriminated against.' That's not a female only issue, it's a lots of people are an assholes on the internet issue. On August 01 2013 01:46 Thieving Magpie wrote:On August 01 2013 01:43 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:42 Thieving Magpie wrote:On August 01 2013 01:40 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:39 Thieving Magpie wrote:On August 01 2013 01:33 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:32 ComaDose wrote:On August 01 2013 01:28 superstartran wrote:
[quote]
So why is it people throw such a huge fit when it comes to insulting women on the internet, when other people regularly insult others with racist terms, derogatory terms, etc.? You know how many times I've seen 'You're a faggot' and I haven't seen one gay person complain about it? Or how when someone drops the n bomb towards black people online.
Why is it women in particular get this special treatment? Everyone else from every other walk of life gets pretty harsh abuse themselves. This is exactly why I call someone like Plansix or Theiving Magpie white knights, because they are talking up about a problem that is virtually non-existent. Yes, some assholes are being sexist to be sexist. However, said same assholes probably call me all sorts of Asian related derogatory terms, yet I don't make a huge fuss 'THE INTERNET IS OUT TO GET ASIAN PEOPLE.' pick your battles man. if you have never seen any upset about the use of the word "faggot" i don't know what you do for news. why is the battle you are picking to fight against those that want sexual abuse of women to stop :S ^^^ This is exactly why I hate people like you. You have the biggest double standards ever. It's not about 'picking battles' it's about people complaining about a non-existent problem. The problem isn't 'everyone is a jackass to women' the problem is everyone is a jackass to everyone else on the internet. They are two separate problems that should be fixed... The existence of one should not diminish the existence of the other. Both groups being attacked simply means that the community is *both* sexists and misogynistic. Are we really supposed to stop trying to make things better for one social group because another social group also has problems? There is no systematic abuse of females in competitive gaming. At all. Until you can prove there is, you don't have to preach 'oh we need to stop this abuse against females!' Like I said, the problem isn't 'female only.' The problem is lots of people on the internet are assholes. If the community attacks women, then there is a problem in the community. If the community attacks gays, then there is a problem in the community. The problems do not disappear just because many social groups are being attacked, it just means the community is more fucked up than you believe. So you're agreeing that it's not just females being attacked, and that they aren't the only ones who get 'verbally attacked' on the internet? Because now you're just proving my point. I'm agreeing that women get attacked, and that needs to be fixed. I'm also agreeing that homosexuals are attacked, and that needs to be fixed. I think the community is very misogynistic, and that its a problem. I also think a large section of the community is also homophobic. And I believe people like you wish to suppress critiques on the community because you feel threatened that you are being accused of misogyny, homophobia, and racism. And I believe that if you are okay with the community making those types of attacks that you are supportive of those deeds. Whoa now, so when you get caught with your pants down in your argument, all of a sudden I'm getting personally attacked. Good job. Says the man who calls everyone in this thread a White Knight. Its not like people here are making some ground breaking argument. Sexism is still a problem in the world and its likely a problem in gaming. Ignoring the problem won't make it go away. There are other problems too, but we can deal with those on a case by case basis. I mean, you don't have to read this thread, so why do so? If you don't think its an issue and you aren't sexist, what is the problem with the discussion?
Actually I've only called you and Thieving Magpie white knights because you are exactly that. You're trying to make it like there's a distinct problem against females in the community when there's not. There's no such thing. There's no systematic discrimination, nor is there a vast amount of abuse towards them. They may get targeted more often simply because they stand out more, but that's not unusual in any circumstance. If you stick out, you're going to get increased attention.
You both agreed that the issue isn't just related to females, and that it is an internet behavior issue. People are assholes on the internet, and that's all there is to it. Good luck attempting to fix it without invading someone's privacy, because the only way you can fix it is to basically remove their anonymity and put their real name and actual picture attached to their online alias.
On August 01 2013 02:04 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 01:49 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:46 ComaDose wrote:On August 01 2013 01:43 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:42 Thieving Magpie wrote:On August 01 2013 01:40 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:39 Thieving Magpie wrote:On August 01 2013 01:33 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:32 ComaDose wrote:On August 01 2013 01:28 superstartran wrote:
[quote]
So why is it people throw such a huge fit when it comes to insulting women on the internet, when other people regularly insult others with racist terms, derogatory terms, etc.? You know how many times I've seen 'You're a faggot' and I haven't seen one gay person complain about it? Or how when someone drops the n bomb towards black people online.
Why is it women in particular get this special treatment? Everyone else from every other walk of life gets pretty harsh abuse themselves. This is exactly why I call someone like Plansix or Theiving Magpie white knights, because they are talking up about a problem that is virtually non-existent. Yes, some assholes are being sexist to be sexist. However, said same assholes probably call me all sorts of Asian related derogatory terms, yet I don't make a huge fuss 'THE INTERNET IS OUT TO GET ASIAN PEOPLE.' pick your battles man. if you have never seen any upset about the use of the word "faggot" i don't know what you do for news. why is the battle you are picking to fight against those that want sexual abuse of women to stop :S ^^^ This is exactly why I hate people like you. You have the biggest double standards ever. It's not about 'picking battles' it's about people complaining about a non-existent problem. The problem isn't 'everyone is a jackass to women' the problem is everyone is a jackass to everyone else on the internet. They are two separate problems that should be fixed... The existence of one should not diminish the existence of the other. Both groups being attacked simply means that the community is *both* sexists and misogynistic. Are we really supposed to stop trying to make things better for one social group because another social group also has problems? There is no systematic abuse of females in competitive gaming. At all. Until you can prove there is, you don't have to preach 'oh we need to stop this abuse against females!' Like I said, the problem isn't 'female only.' The problem is lots of people on the internet are assholes. If the community attacks women, then there is a problem in the community. If the community attacks gays, then there is a problem in the community. The problems do not disappear just because many social groups are being attacked, it just means the community is more fucked up than you believe. So you're agreeing that it's not just females being attacked, and that they aren't the only ones who get 'verbally attacked' on the internet? Because now you're just proving my point. what no he has been reiterating that there are lots of problems for like 2 pages now are you serious? Main point is that you're bitching about people being jackasses rather than about a specific problem about 'women being systematically discriminated against.' That's not a female only issue, it's a lots of people are an assholes on the internet issue. On August 01 2013 01:46 Thieving Magpie wrote:On August 01 2013 01:43 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:42 Thieving Magpie wrote:On August 01 2013 01:40 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:39 Thieving Magpie wrote:On August 01 2013 01:33 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:32 ComaDose wrote:On August 01 2013 01:28 superstartran wrote:
[quote]
So why is it people throw such a huge fit when it comes to insulting women on the internet, when other people regularly insult others with racist terms, derogatory terms, etc.? You know how many times I've seen 'You're a faggot' and I haven't seen one gay person complain about it? Or how when someone drops the n bomb towards black people online.
Why is it women in particular get this special treatment? Everyone else from every other walk of life gets pretty harsh abuse themselves. This is exactly why I call someone like Plansix or Theiving Magpie white knights, because they are talking up about a problem that is virtually non-existent. Yes, some assholes are being sexist to be sexist. However, said same assholes probably call me all sorts of Asian related derogatory terms, yet I don't make a huge fuss 'THE INTERNET IS OUT TO GET ASIAN PEOPLE.' pick your battles man. if you have never seen any upset about the use of the word "faggot" i don't know what you do for news. why is the battle you are picking to fight against those that want sexual abuse of women to stop :S ^^^ This is exactly why I hate people like you. You have the biggest double standards ever. It's not about 'picking battles' it's about people complaining about a non-existent problem. The problem isn't 'everyone is a jackass to women' the problem is everyone is a jackass to everyone else on the internet. They are two separate problems that should be fixed... The existence of one should not diminish the existence of the other. Both groups being attacked simply means that the community is *both* sexists and misogynistic. Are we really supposed to stop trying to make things better for one social group because another social group also has problems? There is no systematic abuse of females in competitive gaming. At all. Until you can prove there is, you don't have to preach 'oh we need to stop this abuse against females!' Like I said, the problem isn't 'female only.' The problem is lots of people on the internet are assholes. If the community attacks women, then there is a problem in the community. If the community attacks gays, then there is a problem in the community. The problems do not disappear just because many social groups are being attacked, it just means the community is more fucked up than you believe. So you're agreeing that it's not just females being attacked, and that they aren't the only ones who get 'verbally attacked' on the internet? Because now you're just proving my point. I'm agreeing that women get attacked, and that needs to be fixed. I'm also agreeing that homosexuals are attacked, and that needs to be fixed. I think the community is very misogynistic, and that its a problem. I also think a large section of the community is also homophobic. And I believe people like you wish to suppress critiques on the community because you feel threatened that you are being accused of misogyny, homophobia, and racism. And I believe that if you are okay with the community making those types of attacks that you are supportive of those deeds. Whoa now, so when you get caught with your pants down in your argument, all of a sudden I'm getting personally attacked. Good job. It's not the same thing. While I agree that using epithets does not necessarily reflect a discriminatory intent, it is that girls attract more attention online, positively and negatively if their handles are 'feminine' Yeah, I get called a faggot on ladder, or BMed after a game. I don't get messages 'oh you're a girl tits or gtfo' Plenty of women posting here and elsewhere say they get a real disproportionate amount of attention while playing games if it's known they're a chick. Regardless of treatment being good or bad, it's tempered by sexism
So if I show up to a Justin Beiber concert and a ton of teenage girls call me a faggot, I can claim discrimination now? Or better yet, if all the girls think I'm cool because I like Justin Beiber because I'm a guy, I can still claim discrimination/sexism, because they are treating me differently because I'm a guy? Lmao.
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On August 01 2013 01:57 shmget wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 01:19 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Gay jokes are homophobic, female jokes are sexist, race jokes are racist. They're all bad, and they're all part of the community we are in both online and offline.
It being the internet doesn't make it okay to do any of it.
Any kind of joke is <something>-phobic by this standard and therefore are bad... Jokes must be banned.... example: Belgian joke: "why is there no lighting on French Autoroute (Interstate Highway in the US)... because they all think they are so bright!" French Joke: "why do Belgian do not practice water-skying.... because they can't find a lake steep enough"
If the only things you find funny is demeaning others, then you don't know very much about comedy.
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So if I show up to a Justin Beiber concert and a ton of teenage girls call me a faggot, I can claim discrimination now?
Yes.
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On August 01 2013 01:46 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 01:43 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:42 Thieving Magpie wrote:On August 01 2013 01:40 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:39 Thieving Magpie wrote:On August 01 2013 01:33 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:32 ComaDose wrote:On August 01 2013 01:28 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:21 Drake wrote:On August 01 2013 01:15 Gr33n wrote:
[quote]
people are suggesting the hate towards women MUST be because they are female, im saying the hate towards them is just genderless hate that everyone gets but because they are females they just use female hate jokes
if it was a gay person it woulda been a gay joke and if it was a white person it woulda been a white person jokes (im not sure what that joke is)
its all just genderless hate sure its generless hate but sometimes, jokes, and i mean agressive ones, just fit better with females so idiots do them without thinking. as example i really wonder no one said shit like "in the kitchen" as answer to this thread ... people normaly just are dicks and its just often easier being a dick to girls So why is it people throw such a huge fit when it comes to insulting women on the internet, when other people regularly insult others with racist terms, derogatory terms, etc.? You know how many times I've seen 'You're a faggot' and I haven't seen one gay person complain about it? Or how when someone drops the n bomb towards black people online. Why is it women in particular get this special treatment? Everyone else from every other walk of life gets pretty harsh abuse themselves. This is exactly why I call someone like Plansix or Theiving Magpie white knights, because they are talking up about a problem that is virtually non-existent. Yes, some assholes are being sexist to be sexist. However, said same assholes probably call me all sorts of Asian related derogatory terms, yet I don't make a huge fuss 'THE INTERNET IS OUT TO GET ASIAN PEOPLE.' pick your battles man. if you have never seen any upset about the use of the word "faggot" i don't know what you do for news. why is the battle you are picking to fight against those that want sexual abuse of women to stop :S ^^^ This is exactly why I hate people like you. You have the biggest double standards ever. It's not about 'picking battles' it's about people complaining about a non-existent problem. The problem isn't 'everyone is a jackass to women' the problem is everyone is a jackass to everyone else on the internet. They are two separate problems that should be fixed... The existence of one should not diminish the existence of the other. Both groups being attacked simply means that the community is *both* sexists and misogynistic. Are we really supposed to stop trying to make things better for one social group because another social group also has problems? There is no systematic abuse of females in competitive gaming. At all. Until you can prove there is, you don't have to preach 'oh we need to stop this abuse against females!' Like I said, the problem isn't 'female only.' The problem is lots of people on the internet are assholes. If the community attacks women, then there is a problem in the community. If the community attacks gays, then there is a problem in the community. The problems do not disappear just because many social groups are being attacked, it just means the community is more fucked up than you believe. So you're agreeing that it's not just females being attacked, and that they aren't the only ones who get 'verbally attacked' on the internet? Because now you're just proving my point. I'm agreeing that women get attacked, and that needs to be fixed. I'm also agreeing that homosexuals are attacked, and that needs to be fixed. I think the community is very misogynistic, and that its a problem. I also think a large section of the community is also homophobic. And I believe people like you wish to suppress critiques on the community because you feel threatened that you are being accused of misogyny, homophobia, and racism. And I believe that if you are okay with the community making those types of attacks that you are supportive of those deeds.
I think were I would disagree is that people aren't necessarily sexist or homophobic, they are simply dicks in general.
If someone on the internet is a different race, they use a racial slur. If it's a different gender they use a sexist one. If it's a different sexual orientation they'll say something homophobic. Failing all that they'll wish you some cancer. They are saying it to hurt someone, not because they believe women are inferior.
I'm not defending those kinds of people, or saying it's okay, but if you want to change it, you have to attack the right causes. you can't just stop people from being dicks to women, you have to stop them from being dicks.
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Northern Ireland26264 Posts
On August 01 2013 02:08 MstrJinbo wrote:Show nested quote +So if I show up to a Justin Beiber concert and a ton of teenage girls call me a faggot, I can claim discrimination now? Yes.
This didn't actually happen though, being a notable distinction from the actual testimonies of girls who get shit on the internet.
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On August 01 2013 01:39 Thieving Magpie wrote:
They are two separate problems that should be fixed... The existence of one should not diminish the existence of the other. Both groups being attacked simply means that the community is *both* sexists and misogynistic.
Are we really supposed to stop trying to make things better for one social group because another social group also has problems?
See that _is_ the problem: trying to slice people is smaller group, based criteria completely irrelevant to the topic at hand (here playing SC2... SC2 is a game, as far as I know your computer is not 'aware' of your gender and does not make the game harder for you based on that)
That behavior is a <foo>-ism regardless of what arbitrary criteria you use to separate the good for the bad, using completely asymmetrical standard of 'offensiveness'.
For instance... a lot of people on both side use 'being a dick' as a way to describe a behavior... where is your outrage at the obviously gendered nature of the remark ?
guys do not have the monopoly on being a 'dick', the form of dickishness may be different among different people, from puerile remarks about sexual appendage to passive-agrresive... but this is not an inherently 'male' attribute (the adjective, not the noun)
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On August 01 2013 02:09 Vorenius wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 01:46 Thieving Magpie wrote:On August 01 2013 01:43 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:42 Thieving Magpie wrote:On August 01 2013 01:40 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:39 Thieving Magpie wrote:On August 01 2013 01:33 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:32 ComaDose wrote:On August 01 2013 01:28 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:21 Drake wrote:
[quote]
sure its generless hate but sometimes, jokes, and i mean agressive ones, just fit better with females so idiots do them without thinking.
as example i really wonder no one said shit like "in the kitchen" as answer to this thread ...
people normaly just are dicks and its just often easier being a dick to girls So why is it people throw such a huge fit when it comes to insulting women on the internet, when other people regularly insult others with racist terms, derogatory terms, etc.? You know how many times I've seen 'You're a faggot' and I haven't seen one gay person complain about it? Or how when someone drops the n bomb towards black people online. Why is it women in particular get this special treatment? Everyone else from every other walk of life gets pretty harsh abuse themselves. This is exactly why I call someone like Plansix or Theiving Magpie white knights, because they are talking up about a problem that is virtually non-existent. Yes, some assholes are being sexist to be sexist. However, said same assholes probably call me all sorts of Asian related derogatory terms, yet I don't make a huge fuss 'THE INTERNET IS OUT TO GET ASIAN PEOPLE.' pick your battles man. if you have never seen any upset about the use of the word "faggot" i don't know what you do for news. why is the battle you are picking to fight against those that want sexual abuse of women to stop :S ^^^ This is exactly why I hate people like you. You have the biggest double standards ever. It's not about 'picking battles' it's about people complaining about a non-existent problem. The problem isn't 'everyone is a jackass to women' the problem is everyone is a jackass to everyone else on the internet. They are two separate problems that should be fixed... The existence of one should not diminish the existence of the other. Both groups being attacked simply means that the community is *both* sexists and misogynistic. Are we really supposed to stop trying to make things better for one social group because another social group also has problems? There is no systematic abuse of females in competitive gaming. At all. Until you can prove there is, you don't have to preach 'oh we need to stop this abuse against females!' Like I said, the problem isn't 'female only.' The problem is lots of people on the internet are assholes. If the community attacks women, then there is a problem in the community. If the community attacks gays, then there is a problem in the community. The problems do not disappear just because many social groups are being attacked, it just means the community is more fucked up than you believe. So you're agreeing that it's not just females being attacked, and that they aren't the only ones who get 'verbally attacked' on the internet? Because now you're just proving my point. I'm agreeing that women get attacked, and that needs to be fixed. I'm also agreeing that homosexuals are attacked, and that needs to be fixed. I think the community is very misogynistic, and that its a problem. I also think a large section of the community is also homophobic. And I believe people like you wish to suppress critiques on the community because you feel threatened that you are being accused of misogyny, homophobia, and racism. And I believe that if you are okay with the community making those types of attacks that you are supportive of those deeds. I think were I would disagree is that people aren't necessarily sexist or homophobic, they are simply dicks in general. If someone on the internet is a different race, they use a racial slur. If it's a different gender they use a sexist one. If it's a different sexual orientation they'll say something homophobic. Failing all that they'll wish you some cancer. They are saying it to hurt someone, not because they believe women are inferior. I'm not defending those kinds of people, or saying it's okay, but if you want to change it, you have to attack the right causes. you can't just stop people from being dicks to women, you have to stop them from being dicks.
I agree that we have to stop people from being dicks but you have to understand that using sexist/homophobic/racist language is what qualifies you as being sexist/homophobic/racist, not a particular malicious intent behind it. What we're saying in this thread is that women suffer quite a bit in particular and I don't think that's in dispute, many women are attacked just for being women as opposed to annoying someone in particular i.e. "tits or gtfo".
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On August 01 2013 02:04 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 01:58 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 01:49 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:46 ComaDose wrote:On August 01 2013 01:43 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:42 Thieving Magpie wrote:On August 01 2013 01:40 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:39 Thieving Magpie wrote:On August 01 2013 01:33 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:32 ComaDose wrote:
[quote]
pick your battles man.
if you have never seen any upset about the use of the word "faggot" i don't know what you do for news.
why is the battle you are picking to fight against those that want sexual abuse of women to stop :S ^^^ This is exactly why I hate people like you. You have the biggest double standards ever. It's not about 'picking battles' it's about people complaining about a non-existent problem. The problem isn't 'everyone is a jackass to women' the problem is everyone is a jackass to everyone else on the internet. They are two separate problems that should be fixed... The existence of one should not diminish the existence of the other. Both groups being attacked simply means that the community is *both* sexists and misogynistic. Are we really supposed to stop trying to make things better for one social group because another social group also has problems? There is no systematic abuse of females in competitive gaming. At all. Until you can prove there is, you don't have to preach 'oh we need to stop this abuse against females!' Like I said, the problem isn't 'female only.' The problem is lots of people on the internet are assholes. If the community attacks women, then there is a problem in the community. If the community attacks gays, then there is a problem in the community. The problems do not disappear just because many social groups are being attacked, it just means the community is more fucked up than you believe. So you're agreeing that it's not just females being attacked, and that they aren't the only ones who get 'verbally attacked' on the internet? Because now you're just proving my point. what no he has been reiterating that there are lots of problems for like 2 pages now are you serious? Main point is that you're bitching about people being jackasses rather than about a specific problem about 'women being systematically discriminated against.' That's not a female only issue, it's a lots of people are an assholes on the internet issue. On August 01 2013 01:46 Thieving Magpie wrote:On August 01 2013 01:43 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:42 Thieving Magpie wrote:On August 01 2013 01:40 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:39 Thieving Magpie wrote:On August 01 2013 01:33 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:32 ComaDose wrote:
[quote]
pick your battles man.
if you have never seen any upset about the use of the word "faggot" i don't know what you do for news.
why is the battle you are picking to fight against those that want sexual abuse of women to stop :S ^^^ This is exactly why I hate people like you. You have the biggest double standards ever. It's not about 'picking battles' it's about people complaining about a non-existent problem. The problem isn't 'everyone is a jackass to women' the problem is everyone is a jackass to everyone else on the internet. They are two separate problems that should be fixed... The existence of one should not diminish the existence of the other. Both groups being attacked simply means that the community is *both* sexists and misogynistic. Are we really supposed to stop trying to make things better for one social group because another social group also has problems? There is no systematic abuse of females in competitive gaming. At all. Until you can prove there is, you don't have to preach 'oh we need to stop this abuse against females!' Like I said, the problem isn't 'female only.' The problem is lots of people on the internet are assholes. If the community attacks women, then there is a problem in the community. If the community attacks gays, then there is a problem in the community. The problems do not disappear just because many social groups are being attacked, it just means the community is more fucked up than you believe. So you're agreeing that it's not just females being attacked, and that they aren't the only ones who get 'verbally attacked' on the internet? Because now you're just proving my point. I'm agreeing that women get attacked, and that needs to be fixed. I'm also agreeing that homosexuals are attacked, and that needs to be fixed. I think the community is very misogynistic, and that its a problem. I also think a large section of the community is also homophobic. And I believe people like you wish to suppress critiques on the community because you feel threatened that you are being accused of misogyny, homophobia, and racism. And I believe that if you are okay with the community making those types of attacks that you are supportive of those deeds. Whoa now, so when you get caught with your pants down in your argument, all of a sudden I'm getting personally attacked. Good job. Says the man who calls everyone in this thread a White Knight. Its not like people here are making some ground breaking argument. Sexism is still a problem in the world and its likely a problem in gaming. Ignoring the problem won't make it go away. There are other problems too, but we can deal with those on a case by case basis. I mean, you don't have to read this thread, so why do so? If you don't think its an issue and you aren't sexist, what is the problem with the discussion? Actually I've only called you and Thieving Magpie white knights because you are exactly that. You're trying to make it like there's a distinct problem against females in the community when there's not. There's no such thing. There's no systematic discrimination, nor is there a vast amount of abuse towards them. They may get targeted more often simply because they stand out more, but that's not unusual in any circumstance. If you stick out, you're going to get increased attention. You both agreed that the issue isn't just related to females, and that it is an internet behavior issue. People are assholes on the internet, and that's all there is to it. Good luck attempting to fix it without invading someone's privacy, because the only way you can fix it is to basically remove their anonymity and put their real name and actual picture attached to their online alias. Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 02:04 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 01 2013 01:49 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:46 ComaDose wrote:On August 01 2013 01:43 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:42 Thieving Magpie wrote:On August 01 2013 01:40 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:39 Thieving Magpie wrote:On August 01 2013 01:33 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:32 ComaDose wrote:
[quote]
pick your battles man.
if you have never seen any upset about the use of the word "faggot" i don't know what you do for news.
why is the battle you are picking to fight against those that want sexual abuse of women to stop :S ^^^ This is exactly why I hate people like you. You have the biggest double standards ever. It's not about 'picking battles' it's about people complaining about a non-existent problem. The problem isn't 'everyone is a jackass to women' the problem is everyone is a jackass to everyone else on the internet. They are two separate problems that should be fixed... The existence of one should not diminish the existence of the other. Both groups being attacked simply means that the community is *both* sexists and misogynistic. Are we really supposed to stop trying to make things better for one social group because another social group also has problems? There is no systematic abuse of females in competitive gaming. At all. Until you can prove there is, you don't have to preach 'oh we need to stop this abuse against females!' Like I said, the problem isn't 'female only.' The problem is lots of people on the internet are assholes. If the community attacks women, then there is a problem in the community. If the community attacks gays, then there is a problem in the community. The problems do not disappear just because many social groups are being attacked, it just means the community is more fucked up than you believe. So you're agreeing that it's not just females being attacked, and that they aren't the only ones who get 'verbally attacked' on the internet? Because now you're just proving my point. what no he has been reiterating that there are lots of problems for like 2 pages now are you serious? Main point is that you're bitching about people being jackasses rather than about a specific problem about 'women being systematically discriminated against.' That's not a female only issue, it's a lots of people are an assholes on the internet issue. On August 01 2013 01:46 Thieving Magpie wrote:On August 01 2013 01:43 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:42 Thieving Magpie wrote:On August 01 2013 01:40 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:39 Thieving Magpie wrote:On August 01 2013 01:33 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:32 ComaDose wrote:
[quote]
pick your battles man.
if you have never seen any upset about the use of the word "faggot" i don't know what you do for news.
why is the battle you are picking to fight against those that want sexual abuse of women to stop :S ^^^ This is exactly why I hate people like you. You have the biggest double standards ever. It's not about 'picking battles' it's about people complaining about a non-existent problem. The problem isn't 'everyone is a jackass to women' the problem is everyone is a jackass to everyone else on the internet. They are two separate problems that should be fixed... The existence of one should not diminish the existence of the other. Both groups being attacked simply means that the community is *both* sexists and misogynistic. Are we really supposed to stop trying to make things better for one social group because another social group also has problems? There is no systematic abuse of females in competitive gaming. At all. Until you can prove there is, you don't have to preach 'oh we need to stop this abuse against females!' Like I said, the problem isn't 'female only.' The problem is lots of people on the internet are assholes. If the community attacks women, then there is a problem in the community. If the community attacks gays, then there is a problem in the community. The problems do not disappear just because many social groups are being attacked, it just means the community is more fucked up than you believe. So you're agreeing that it's not just females being attacked, and that they aren't the only ones who get 'verbally attacked' on the internet? Because now you're just proving my point. I'm agreeing that women get attacked, and that needs to be fixed. I'm also agreeing that homosexuals are attacked, and that needs to be fixed. I think the community is very misogynistic, and that its a problem. I also think a large section of the community is also homophobic. And I believe people like you wish to suppress critiques on the community because you feel threatened that you are being accused of misogyny, homophobia, and racism. And I believe that if you are okay with the community making those types of attacks that you are supportive of those deeds. Whoa now, so when you get caught with your pants down in your argument, all of a sudden I'm getting personally attacked. Good job. It's not the same thing. While I agree that using epithets does not necessarily reflect a discriminatory intent, it is that girls attract more attention online, positively and negatively if their handles are 'feminine' Yeah, I get called a faggot on ladder, or BMed after a game. I don't get messages 'oh you're a girl tits or gtfo' Plenty of women posting here and elsewhere say they get a real disproportionate amount of attention while playing games if it's known they're a chick. Regardless of treatment being good or bad, it's tempered by sexism So if I show up to a Justin Beiber concert and a ton of teenage girls call me a faggot, I can claim discrimination now? Or better yet, if all the girls think I'm cool because I like Justin Beiber because I'm a guy, I can still claim discrimination/sexism, because they are treating me differently because I'm a guy? Lmao.
We called you sexists and misogynistic, because that is what you are. You don't want people to discuss the issue and actively want the discussion stopped because you don't believe its a problem. Just because you believe something doesn't mean you have the right to tell other people not to talk about it.
Furthermore, if we apply your argument to all other forms of abuse online, you could claim racism isn't a problem either. But I don't think you would get very far with that argument, because racism is always a problem and should always be discussed.
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On August 01 2013 02:16 Sevre wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 02:09 Vorenius wrote:On August 01 2013 01:46 Thieving Magpie wrote:On August 01 2013 01:43 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:42 Thieving Magpie wrote:On August 01 2013 01:40 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:39 Thieving Magpie wrote:On August 01 2013 01:33 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:32 ComaDose wrote:On August 01 2013 01:28 superstartran wrote:
[quote]
So why is it people throw such a huge fit when it comes to insulting women on the internet, when other people regularly insult others with racist terms, derogatory terms, etc.? You know how many times I've seen 'You're a faggot' and I haven't seen one gay person complain about it? Or how when someone drops the n bomb towards black people online.
Why is it women in particular get this special treatment? Everyone else from every other walk of life gets pretty harsh abuse themselves. This is exactly why I call someone like Plansix or Theiving Magpie white knights, because they are talking up about a problem that is virtually non-existent. Yes, some assholes are being sexist to be sexist. However, said same assholes probably call me all sorts of Asian related derogatory terms, yet I don't make a huge fuss 'THE INTERNET IS OUT TO GET ASIAN PEOPLE.' pick your battles man. if you have never seen any upset about the use of the word "faggot" i don't know what you do for news. why is the battle you are picking to fight against those that want sexual abuse of women to stop :S ^^^ This is exactly why I hate people like you. You have the biggest double standards ever. It's not about 'picking battles' it's about people complaining about a non-existent problem. The problem isn't 'everyone is a jackass to women' the problem is everyone is a jackass to everyone else on the internet. They are two separate problems that should be fixed... The existence of one should not diminish the existence of the other. Both groups being attacked simply means that the community is *both* sexists and misogynistic. Are we really supposed to stop trying to make things better for one social group because another social group also has problems? There is no systematic abuse of females in competitive gaming. At all. Until you can prove there is, you don't have to preach 'oh we need to stop this abuse against females!' Like I said, the problem isn't 'female only.' The problem is lots of people on the internet are assholes. If the community attacks women, then there is a problem in the community. If the community attacks gays, then there is a problem in the community. The problems do not disappear just because many social groups are being attacked, it just means the community is more fucked up than you believe. So you're agreeing that it's not just females being attacked, and that they aren't the only ones who get 'verbally attacked' on the internet? Because now you're just proving my point. I'm agreeing that women get attacked, and that needs to be fixed. I'm also agreeing that homosexuals are attacked, and that needs to be fixed. I think the community is very misogynistic, and that its a problem. I also think a large section of the community is also homophobic. And I believe people like you wish to suppress critiques on the community because you feel threatened that you are being accused of misogyny, homophobia, and racism. And I believe that if you are okay with the community making those types of attacks that you are supportive of those deeds. I think were I would disagree is that people aren't necessarily sexist or homophobic, they are simply dicks in general. If someone on the internet is a different race, they use a racial slur. If it's a different gender they use a sexist one. If it's a different sexual orientation they'll say something homophobic. Failing all that they'll wish you some cancer. They are saying it to hurt someone, not because they believe women are inferior. I'm not defending those kinds of people, or saying it's okay, but if you want to change it, you have to attack the right causes. you can't just stop people from being dicks to women, you have to stop them from being dicks. I agree that we have to stop people from being dicks but you have to understand that using sexist/homophobic/racist language is what qualifies you as being sexist/homophobic/racist, not a particular malicious intent behind it. What we're saying in this thread is that women suffer quite a bit in particular and I don't think that's in dispute, many women are attacked just for being women as opposed to annoying someone in particular i.e. "tits or gtfo".
We've already covered this, there is a novelty still of women playing mostly 'male' games. As such, they get increased attention, which thus also causes them to become the main targets of most jackasses on the internet. It's not fair, but that's just how it is. That being said, I have seen very few women complain about the positives of the 'increased attention novelty factor.'
On August 01 2013 02:18 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 02:04 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:58 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 01:49 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:46 ComaDose wrote:On August 01 2013 01:43 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:42 Thieving Magpie wrote:On August 01 2013 01:40 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:39 Thieving Magpie wrote:On August 01 2013 01:33 superstartran wrote:
[quote]
^^^ This is exactly why I hate people like you. You have the biggest double standards ever. It's not about 'picking battles' it's about people complaining about a non-existent problem. The problem isn't 'everyone is a jackass to women' the problem is everyone is a jackass to everyone else on the internet. They are two separate problems that should be fixed... The existence of one should not diminish the existence of the other. Both groups being attacked simply means that the community is *both* sexists and misogynistic. Are we really supposed to stop trying to make things better for one social group because another social group also has problems? There is no systematic abuse of females in competitive gaming. At all. Until you can prove there is, you don't have to preach 'oh we need to stop this abuse against females!' Like I said, the problem isn't 'female only.' The problem is lots of people on the internet are assholes. If the community attacks women, then there is a problem in the community. If the community attacks gays, then there is a problem in the community. The problems do not disappear just because many social groups are being attacked, it just means the community is more fucked up than you believe. So you're agreeing that it's not just females being attacked, and that they aren't the only ones who get 'verbally attacked' on the internet? Because now you're just proving my point. what no he has been reiterating that there are lots of problems for like 2 pages now are you serious? Main point is that you're bitching about people being jackasses rather than about a specific problem about 'women being systematically discriminated against.' That's not a female only issue, it's a lots of people are an assholes on the internet issue. On August 01 2013 01:46 Thieving Magpie wrote:On August 01 2013 01:43 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:42 Thieving Magpie wrote:On August 01 2013 01:40 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:39 Thieving Magpie wrote:On August 01 2013 01:33 superstartran wrote:
[quote]
^^^ This is exactly why I hate people like you. You have the biggest double standards ever. It's not about 'picking battles' it's about people complaining about a non-existent problem. The problem isn't 'everyone is a jackass to women' the problem is everyone is a jackass to everyone else on the internet. They are two separate problems that should be fixed... The existence of one should not diminish the existence of the other. Both groups being attacked simply means that the community is *both* sexists and misogynistic. Are we really supposed to stop trying to make things better for one social group because another social group also has problems? There is no systematic abuse of females in competitive gaming. At all. Until you can prove there is, you don't have to preach 'oh we need to stop this abuse against females!' Like I said, the problem isn't 'female only.' The problem is lots of people on the internet are assholes. If the community attacks women, then there is a problem in the community. If the community attacks gays, then there is a problem in the community. The problems do not disappear just because many social groups are being attacked, it just means the community is more fucked up than you believe. So you're agreeing that it's not just females being attacked, and that they aren't the only ones who get 'verbally attacked' on the internet? Because now you're just proving my point. I'm agreeing that women get attacked, and that needs to be fixed. I'm also agreeing that homosexuals are attacked, and that needs to be fixed. I think the community is very misogynistic, and that its a problem. I also think a large section of the community is also homophobic. And I believe people like you wish to suppress critiques on the community because you feel threatened that you are being accused of misogyny, homophobia, and racism. And I believe that if you are okay with the community making those types of attacks that you are supportive of those deeds. Whoa now, so when you get caught with your pants down in your argument, all of a sudden I'm getting personally attacked. Good job. Says the man who calls everyone in this thread a White Knight. Its not like people here are making some ground breaking argument. Sexism is still a problem in the world and its likely a problem in gaming. Ignoring the problem won't make it go away. There are other problems too, but we can deal with those on a case by case basis. I mean, you don't have to read this thread, so why do so? If you don't think its an issue and you aren't sexist, what is the problem with the discussion? Actually I've only called you and Thieving Magpie white knights because you are exactly that. You're trying to make it like there's a distinct problem against females in the community when there's not. There's no such thing. There's no systematic discrimination, nor is there a vast amount of abuse towards them. They may get targeted more often simply because they stand out more, but that's not unusual in any circumstance. If you stick out, you're going to get increased attention. You both agreed that the issue isn't just related to females, and that it is an internet behavior issue. People are assholes on the internet, and that's all there is to it. Good luck attempting to fix it without invading someone's privacy, because the only way you can fix it is to basically remove their anonymity and put their real name and actual picture attached to their online alias. On August 01 2013 02:04 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 01 2013 01:49 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:46 ComaDose wrote:On August 01 2013 01:43 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:42 Thieving Magpie wrote:On August 01 2013 01:40 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:39 Thieving Magpie wrote:On August 01 2013 01:33 superstartran wrote:
[quote]
^^^ This is exactly why I hate people like you. You have the biggest double standards ever. It's not about 'picking battles' it's about people complaining about a non-existent problem. The problem isn't 'everyone is a jackass to women' the problem is everyone is a jackass to everyone else on the internet. They are two separate problems that should be fixed... The existence of one should not diminish the existence of the other. Both groups being attacked simply means that the community is *both* sexists and misogynistic. Are we really supposed to stop trying to make things better for one social group because another social group also has problems? There is no systematic abuse of females in competitive gaming. At all. Until you can prove there is, you don't have to preach 'oh we need to stop this abuse against females!' Like I said, the problem isn't 'female only.' The problem is lots of people on the internet are assholes. If the community attacks women, then there is a problem in the community. If the community attacks gays, then there is a problem in the community. The problems do not disappear just because many social groups are being attacked, it just means the community is more fucked up than you believe. So you're agreeing that it's not just females being attacked, and that they aren't the only ones who get 'verbally attacked' on the internet? Because now you're just proving my point. what no he has been reiterating that there are lots of problems for like 2 pages now are you serious? Main point is that you're bitching about people being jackasses rather than about a specific problem about 'women being systematically discriminated against.' That's not a female only issue, it's a lots of people are an assholes on the internet issue. On August 01 2013 01:46 Thieving Magpie wrote:On August 01 2013 01:43 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:42 Thieving Magpie wrote:On August 01 2013 01:40 superstartran wrote:On August 01 2013 01:39 Thieving Magpie wrote:On August 01 2013 01:33 superstartran wrote:
[quote]
^^^ This is exactly why I hate people like you. You have the biggest double standards ever. It's not about 'picking battles' it's about people complaining about a non-existent problem. The problem isn't 'everyone is a jackass to women' the problem is everyone is a jackass to everyone else on the internet. They are two separate problems that should be fixed... The existence of one should not diminish the existence of the other. Both groups being attacked simply means that the community is *both* sexists and misogynistic. Are we really supposed to stop trying to make things better for one social group because another social group also has problems? There is no systematic abuse of females in competitive gaming. At all. Until you can prove there is, you don't have to preach 'oh we need to stop this abuse against females!' Like I said, the problem isn't 'female only.' The problem is lots of people on the internet are assholes. If the community attacks women, then there is a problem in the community. If the community attacks gays, then there is a problem in the community. The problems do not disappear just because many social groups are being attacked, it just means the community is more fucked up than you believe. So you're agreeing that it's not just females being attacked, and that they aren't the only ones who get 'verbally attacked' on the internet? Because now you're just proving my point. I'm agreeing that women get attacked, and that needs to be fixed. I'm also agreeing that homosexuals are attacked, and that needs to be fixed. I think the community is very misogynistic, and that its a problem. I also think a large section of the community is also homophobic. And I believe people like you wish to suppress critiques on the community because you feel threatened that you are being accused of misogyny, homophobia, and racism. And I believe that if you are okay with the community making those types of attacks that you are supportive of those deeds. Whoa now, so when you get caught with your pants down in your argument, all of a sudden I'm getting personally attacked. Good job. It's not the same thing. While I agree that using epithets does not necessarily reflect a discriminatory intent, it is that girls attract more attention online, positively and negatively if their handles are 'feminine' Yeah, I get called a faggot on ladder, or BMed after a game. I don't get messages 'oh you're a girl tits or gtfo' Plenty of women posting here and elsewhere say they get a real disproportionate amount of attention while playing games if it's known they're a chick. Regardless of treatment being good or bad, it's tempered by sexism So if I show up to a Justin Beiber concert and a ton of teenage girls call me a faggot, I can claim discrimination now? Or better yet, if all the girls think I'm cool because I like Justin Beiber because I'm a guy, I can still claim discrimination/sexism, because they are treating me differently because I'm a guy? Lmao. We called you sexists and misogynistic, because that is what you are. You don't want people to discuss the issue and actively want the discussion stopped because you don't believe its a problem. Just because you believe something doesn't mean you have the right to tell other people not to talk about it. Furthermore, if we apply your argument to all other forms of abuse online, you could claim racism isn't a problem either. But I don't think you would get very far with that argument, because racism is always a problem and should always be discussed.
'Waagh he blew up my argument now I must call him a sexist and a misogynistic because that's all I can say.'
Like I said, the issue is people are dicks. Not that there's a distinct discrimination against women online. You can accuse me of being a sexist/misogynistic all you want. Fact of the matter is, people don't specifically target women. They only target them because they simply standout in a community of mostly men; other people get equal levels of abuse, it's just they aren't as vocal about it.
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Northern Ireland26264 Posts
On August 01 2013 02:15 shmget wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 01:39 Thieving Magpie wrote:
They are two separate problems that should be fixed... The existence of one should not diminish the existence of the other. Both groups being attacked simply means that the community is *both* sexists and misogynistic.
Are we really supposed to stop trying to make things better for one social group because another social group also has problems? See that _is_ the problem: trying to slice people is smaller group, based criteria completely irrelevant to the topic at hand (here playing SC2... SC2 is a game, as far as I know your computer is not 'aware' of your gender and does not make the game harder for you based on that) That behavior is a <foo>-ism regardless of what arbitrary criteria you use to separate the good for the bad, using completely asymmetrical standard of 'offensiveness'. For instance... a lot of people on both side use 'being a dick' as a way to describe a behavior... where is your outrage at the obviously gendered nature of the remark ? guys do not have the monopoly on being a 'dick', the form of dickishness may be different among different people, from puerile remarks about sexual appendage to passive-agrresive... but this is not an inherently 'male' attribute (the adjective, not the noun)
Actually a pretty reasonable point, closer to my personal view that the gender roles that society designates do not solely have a negative impact on women. A lot of homophobia towards gay men is motivated by an unease people feel towards men who have more traditionally feminine characteristics.
I am not sure if it's a modern phenomenon, but I've seen men get lambasted in public simply for saying hello to a cute kid who was running around them in a supermarket or on a bus, which simply wouldn't happen if it was a women doing the same.
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they say:You're trying to make it like there's a distinct problem against females in the community when there's not. There's no such thing. There's no systematic discrimination, nor is there a vast amount of abuse towards them.
This is where there is a distinct difference of opinion.
I have derived the opposite conclusion by observing the community.
I do not believe being comfortable with sexist, homophobic, and racist comments comes in a joint bundle of being an ass hole.
This cannot be used to summarize the "real" problem.
I believe those comments represent three different problems that all need to be fixed.
I hope i can help, even if just by being a good example, in as many problems as i can.
I can't imagine a person who actively fights to dismiss problems.
EDIT: If you are saying its not fair but its just the way it is. I am saying lets try and make things more fair. Why are you getting in my way?
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On August 01 2013 01:40 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Wait.
So if you insult women, women should just take it, but when comadose insults you then he's being ridiculous?
I'm sorry where to you get that from ?
1/ I have already stated multiple time that _I_ do not recognize the 'right' not to be offended... that, of course,apply to myself too.
2/ when I use 'I am offended' in this argument, it is a rethorical tool. of course I am not and even if I was that would be irrelevant... but since the argument _is_ made that 'being offended' is a valid reason for censure etc.. then I apply that same argument... it is a called 'reductio ad absurdum'
3/ I never advocated that anyone 'take' it... I'm just objecting to you apparent will to give separate treatment to 'insult women' and 'insult men' or 'insult <any arbitrary sub-group-you want->'
4/ as far as I know comadose as not insulted _me_, yet... (and yes, if your and other make under-handed derogatory comment about men in general... I don't consider it a personal insult. it is more, in this case, an illustration of your lack of internal logical coherency than an insult toward my person.)
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dude it says: A strong verbal attack
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EPT
