An interesting discussion I was having with a Briton in another thread here. The British man argued that the nations of the United States are little more than "administrative zones" and lack their own culture and identity. I disagreed with him on this point, as I believe that the United States isn't a homogenous entity, but rather a federation of 50 states. I believe these states, while sharing many common themes and a federal political framework, are unique.
Those arguing that each United States state has it's own culture and identity can point to a number of examples. One of these examples is the fact that each state has it's own unique constitution, government, laws and political environment. While the United States is generally perceived as "two party system" by outsiders, many states have independent and third party representatives in their state legislatures; whereas some states (Nebraska) have banned political parties altogether. Another example is that each state has it's own unique history, which molds a collective identity for the people living in the state. Each state also has it's own state symbols, such as flags, coats of arms, state birds, state flowers, state fish, etc. Many states even have their own national holidays to celebrate their national identity. States also differ drastically from each other in other respects, for instance, my home state of Missouri is a rural agrarian state and the people here have vastly different views than those from "urban" states, such as the District of Columbia and most of New England.
Conversely, those arguing that states do not have their own cultures and identities can point to other examples. Members of this group claim that the United States is a "federation in name only," because the federal government regularly violates the Tenth Amendment of the United States Constitution, which results in states effectively losing their sovereignty. They also claim that there are little or no differences between the cultures of different states. They also claim that the borders of states were defined solely on administrative conveniences, rather than cultural, historical or ethnic grounds.
Another interesting point to consider is that there is some regional cultural overlap between states. In other words, cultures may not necessarily end at state lines. How is this different from most of Africa, whose states were drawn up almost entirely based on colonial boundaries, rather than ethnic ones? Also, how is this different from how (for example) many towns and regions in Germany consist primarily of ethnic Poles?
The question I pose to you is whether or not you believe the 51 nations comprising the United States have their own culture and/or identity? Or whether the United States is an entirely homogenous state and there are no cultural differences between the states? What has led you to the conclusions that you have drawn?
Poll: Americans: Do states have their own culture and/or identity?
States definately have their own identity/culture. (338)
85%
States definately don't have their own identity/culture. (28)
7%
I'm leaning towards states having their own identity/culture. (17)
4%
I'm leaning towards states not having their own identity/culture. (14)
4%
397 total votes
Your vote: Americans: Do states have their own culture and/or identity?
(Vote): States definately have their own identity/culture. (Vote): I'm leaning towards states having their own identity/culture. (Vote): I'm leaning towards states not having their own identity/culture. (Vote): States definately don't have their own identity/culture.
Poll: Foreigners: Do states have their own culture and/or identity?
States definitely have their own identity/culture. (87)
50%
States definitely don't have their own identity/culture. (52)
30%
I'm leaning towards states having their own identity/culture. (18)
10%
I'm leaning towards states not having their own identity/culture. (17)
10%
174 total votes
Your vote: Foreigners: Do states have their own culture and/or identity?
(Vote): States definitely have their own identity/culture. (Vote): I'm leaning towards states having their own identity/culture. (Vote): I'm leaning towards states not having their own identity/culture. (Vote): States definitely don't have their own identity/culture.
Poll: What would you say is the main source of culture?
Internal State Regional Culture (i.e. metro areas) (81)
46%
Cross-State Regional Culture (37)
21%
"National" Culture (26)
15%
City / Town Culture (19)
11%
State Culture (8)
5%
Other (6)
3%
177 total votes
Your vote: What would you say is the main source of culture?
(Vote): "National" Culture (Vote): Cross-State Regional Culture (Vote): State Culture (Vote): Internal State Regional Culture (i.e. metro areas) (Vote): City / Town Culture (Vote): Other
Living in the southwest, I believe its actually even to a smaller scale. I believe there is a huge cultural differences even in just cities. Even more, there are hard cultural differences within cities. you can drive from one part of a city to another and experience such difference in culture because of our diversity.
I'd argue that California is closer to somewhere like the Netherlands or Germany in political ideology than Arizona which is a neighboring state. I can see why your friend had such an image of the U.S., as in my head, the E.U. has a much more homogeneous political identity than the U.S. has within itself.
I definitely think there are major variations in culture around the USA, but I don't think state lines are a good way to differentiate them.
I think many Europeans don't realize how different it is living in some states versus others. The size and diversity of the US is difficult to understand if you haven't experienced it yourself (there are not many comparable nations in this regard).
There's definitely different culture by state or general region, but it's not as dominant as it has been historically. If you stick to big cities especially, it's getting pretty homogeneous. 50% of the US population lives in a metro as big or bigger than like Milwaukee, and for the most part people are pretty similar culturally.
Lot of little differences to keep it interesting. For instance in the Pacific NW, apparently every other person is convinced they have a gluten allergy.
Some states no doubt have a culture of their own, but sometimes several states in a region can share a similar culture. Also there could be multiple cultures within a single state.
all you have to do to know that yes we have our own ways is travel to one country and then come back. CLEAR AS DAY. my example, look at filipinos who are american born and look at the real filipinos. Entirely two different people.
Florida is one of the best examples of multiple varying cultures/identities even within a single state. Huge hispanic population in Miami/Ft. Lauderdale and it's very liberal socially since there are a ton of different nationalities. You travel towards Central Florida and you start running into huge white evangelical populations and mega-churches. Continue north and you start actually getting into Deep South territory where you start seeing rebel flags displayed proudly on the back of pickup trucks with southern accents. I also forgot to mention Key West in the very south which is very unique on it's own, especially when Fantasy Fest is going on. I also forgot about the Indian tribes sprinkled through Florida as well.
I could literally go on and on about how just Florida varies within itself, forget about having to compare it to another state.
It depends there is kind of a mix between regions and states... another example of a state having an identity all its own is Texas, but on the other hand you could group much of new england together as having more of a regional identity.
There's so many different cultures in the US, mostly due to the different cultures that colonized it. New Orleans which is where I live is some weird mix of French, Spanish, and African. Very unique and cool too
I grew up in New Jersey and I definitely notice a strong state-cultural presence around here. Some of it is based off pop culture (Bruce Springsteen, Jersey shore), some from historical sites/famous achievements (princeton university, revolutionary war sites) and some is more of a folk-culture (agricultural presence -- "garden state", sports teams, folk tales like the Jersey Devil, etc). That kind of stuff just passively comes up in school and in conversation over the years so I know quite a bit about it without ever having gone out of the way to study it.
On May 03 2013 14:53 Hrrrrm wrote: Florida is one of the best examples of multiple varying cultures/identities even within a single state. Huge hispanic population in Miami/Ft. Lauderdale and it's very liberal socially since there are a ton of different nationalities. You travel towards Central Florida and you start running into huge white evangelical populations and mega-churches. Continue north and you start actually getting into Deep South territory where you start seeing rebel flags displayed proudly on the back of pickup trucks with southern accents. I also forgot to mention Key West in the very south which is very unique on it's own, especially when Fantasy Fest is going on. I also forgot about the Indian tribes sprinkled through Florida as well.
I could literally go on and on about how just Florida varies within itself, forget about having to compare it to another state.
You can't even clump Ft. Lauderdale with Miami, they are completely different :\ Also I wouldn't call Key West "very south"... they have a huge gay population, which the true south (north of Florida) would never tolerate.
Anyway, more examples of how cultures can vary on scales as small as cities!
Texans definitely have a distinct culture that they are very proud of. Various mottoes and slogans (Proud to be a Texan, Don't mess with Texas, Everything's bigger in Texas) exist that propagate this mentality. I've lived here my entire life, and though I don't necessarily share the same feeling of pride that most of my neighbors do, I'd definitely say that our state has its own unique identity. Most Texans would get at least a little upset if they were considered to be just another one of those states from the south.
I'm from South Louisiana, and I guess I'm biased when I say that states have their own cultural identity because I'm part of the whole Cajun culture with Mardi Gras, francophones, ect. I wouldn't really know if other states/Northern Louisiana have their own unique aspects to their culture.
Of course the U.S. is not homogenous. Culture doesn't change drastically when crossing most state lines, but different regions are quite distinct. Consider cajuns or creoles that are historically french and located in the southeast around louisiana as contrasted with the southwest cowboy culture inherited from the hispanic gauchos of mexico that can trace their culture back to the indians and spaniards.
An even simpler example would be sports. Hockey is reasonably big in the north in Michigan/Minnesota, but is not nearly so popular in the rest of the country.
One thing that some people might not know is that each state teaches its own state history as a course in early education, before high school.
Besides that, I can tell you accents can be significantly different from one region to another. It's not to such an extreme as in India or China, where different regions speak separate dialects that may be unintelligible to their neighbors, but it can be a source of mockery (good natured or not) when people travel cross country.
I don't think it's really limited to each state, but particular regions. My philosophy teacher said California is the perfect example of a melting pot, and in Idaho you get people thinking Taco Bell is the real deal when it comes to Mexican food. Texas and the other southern states have their own culture, and the west and east coasts are very different from each other.
Phyren brings up a good point about the accents. There's some subtle to absolutely horrendous variations on pronunciations throughout the states.
Yes, they definitely do. Take a walk around the UP of Michigan, it's like a whole different place even versus southern Michigan. I'd say that there are cultures within a state, but there are overarching state cultures as well.
I think even (for the most part) states are independent from region culture. I'm from Michigan, and if you ask people here, they'll tell you that people from Ohio are dickheads and that people are so much nicer in Michigan (and Ohioan's would probably tell you the same about people from Michigan).
Not just States, but regions within them and cities too etc. That said, still a lot more homogenised than EU member states, which iirc was how this was raised in the first place
I think it depends on what you mean by regional variation. Of course, the US being a population of 300 million is going to have some cultural variation if only because of the way in which people are concentrated or spread across a large continent. On the other hand, I don't think anyone would doubt that there is less cultural variation in the US than in Europe or in China, if only because of the length of the latter civilisations.
Between regions and states, as well as within cities and major metropolitan areas.
The United States is kind of unique in the fact that it is so large with such a diversity in geography and climates. With the different histories behind each region, it is kind of inevitable that cultural differences arise.
Easy, and rather stereotypical example: There is a reason why it's called Southern Hospitality. It wouldn't have been called that if everyone else in the US practiced it as well.
California is a cultural melting pot all in its own. I'm from southern california and I give all my friends from northern california shit for not having awesome beaches, great weather, awesome food, and the fact that they say "hella" way too much.
Think states definatly have their own unique culture (not the culture imported by several groups of imigrants), though it is less defined then for example in europe, simply because states and citys only have existed for like 200-300 years now. Not sure if i could name anny but there seems to be difference in culture between north and south, and citys like new york,san fransico and new orleans and regions like texas and new yersey (yersey shore, gah..) seem to have a unique culture of their own as well. Voted cross state regional culture as main source though not sure what this means lol,think culture is not realy bound by state but more by region/citys and also often goes back to the roots of the immigrants who live there mostly. I think the melting pot culture can only truly be found in new york.
On May 03 2013 17:06 imBLIND wrote: California is a cultural melting pot all in its own. I'm from southern california and I give all my friends from northern california shit for not having awesome beaches, great weather, awesome food, and the fact that they say "hella" way too much.
It's not divided along state lines, it's way more regional. Cities have their own culture, wide swaths of country have their own culture, some suburbs have their own distinct one apart from the suburbs on the other side of a metro. It just isn't divided along state bounds. Cultural regions are trans-state.
I've been all over and people don't seem too different. The only differences I've felt are between urban and rural areas; it doesn't seem to be much a state thing. Of course if you really look for things you'll find them. For instance, my Michigan cousins call soda, "pop," but that's not really worthy of being called a cultural difference. Or maybe an area likes to eat often a certain food. Accents are another thing too, but I don't think they're that important. The differences aren't that big to me, but to each his own.
Anglophone is a subset. North America is a subset. US is a subset. Different US regions are subsets.
It's like, you spend your cultural familiarity point on Western culture but there might be a sub-point value level cultural familiarity you can buy off with time-spent studying. That's how I'd model it in GURPS, anyway
I think languages have a huge part in making cultures different. If every state in the US had it's own language and no one else understood wtf you were saying(hi@europe), over time it would lead to a lot more different cultures. To someone from Europe, USA seems very homogeneous.
Even in Switzerland we have regional diffrences (not just over the language boarders).
For sure the US has (big) diffrences, but for the most part they are probably much smaller than between European countries, just because the development of the european countries took place way before international travel was "normal" and so cultures got more varied (lack of outside influence).
Edit: Looks like I answered the wrong question. If you are talking about individual States, still yes. I have worked in Silicon Valley before, and have also went to Texas, and California definitely feels different compared to Texas.
That we speak different languages in Europe not only stops us from exchanging cultural impulses but it also complicates the process of moving to the other country, so migration is less than it would have otherwise been. The individual education systems further pushes a wedge between us because our countries will primarily teach literature and history from a national perspective. If I move from Norway to Sweden, I will retain my Norwegian identity no matter how much I assimilate to their alien society. Can the same thing be said for someone who moves from Pennsylvania to Maryland?
How cultural diverse/unique something is depends on where you draw the lines.
Many cities have their own "cultural identity" because of their own long history. Looking at it differently has you notice, for example, that in contintal europe there are many cultural similarities. If you go even broader, you could say that the eastern hemisphere and the western hemisphere are the only fundamentally different cultures.
Just taking the internet, you see only a few major divides by language barrier, like english speaking, russian speaking, chinese speaking(insert other languages).
Talking from my own knowledge, there are cultural differences between the federal lands of germany. The most notably are east german and west german, thanks to a 50 year division. Then there is bavaria which are the people with lederhosen, then berlin, which as the capital is naturally a big city with many new people moving there, also the Ruhrgebiet, which is very industrial culture, northern germany has easy going trader and seafarer descendants etc. etc.
If you ask me, the defining point is pop culture today. We watch the same TV shows and movies and watch the same game as quite literally the entire west. America, australia, europe are one big western culture getting ever closer connected via internet.
So actually, what difference does it make that "no really, american states are incredibly diverese". Everything is, if you look hard enough.
Depends on your definition of culture. By some definitions, even cities have different cultures. On an extreme end, even different areas of the same city might have different cultures.
Are the differences between states in the US as profound as the differences between many European countries? Highly unlikely, but that doesn't change the fact that there's probably vast difference between states, even neighboring ones. There's difference in food habits, education, dialects, values...
On May 03 2013 18:47 stenole wrote: That we speak different languages in Europe not only stops us from exchanging cultural impulses but it also complicates the process of moving to the other country, so migration is less than it would have otherwise been. The individual education systems further pushes a wedge between us because our countries will primarily teach literature and history from a national perspective. If I move from Norway to Sweden, I will retain my Norwegian identity no matter how much I assimilate to their alien society. Can the same thing be said for someone who moves from Pennsylvania to Maryland?
Indeed, and that's still a pretty weak difference since Sweden and Norway are quite similar culturally. Compare that to a Scandinavian moving to Italy, or a Ukranian moving to England.
I've travelled across America over this spring break, New Jersey to San Francisco by way of Texas, so I've seen a huge swath of states (making stops in all of them to see what's in them) and I have to agree that all the states have their own culture.
In the western states the differences are apparent. There's a huge difference between the kind of people you see in California, those you see in Arizona, and those in New Mexico. And the differences definitely change at the borders. Demographics change almost instantly - the number of Native Americans drops severely from New Mexico to Arizona, and the number of Asians is huge even in eastern California but not Arizona.
In the smaller states it's more blurred but still kinda apparent. You don't see people in New York City, for example, with a Boston accent. Or you do but if you talk to them they'll probably tell you they're from around Boston.
On May 03 2013 18:47 stenole wrote: That we speak different languages in Europe not only stops us from exchanging cultural impulses but it also complicates the process of moving to the other country, so migration is less than it would have otherwise been. The individual education systems further pushes a wedge between us because our countries will primarily teach literature and history from a national perspective. If I move from Norway to Sweden, I will retain my Norwegian identity no matter how much I assimilate to their alien society. Can the same thing be said for someone who moves from Pennsylvania to Maryland?
Indeed, and that's still a pretty weak difference since Sweden and Norway are quite similar culturally. Compare that to a Scandinavian moving to Italy, or a Ukranian moving to England.
Scandinavian moving to Norway would definitely be a New Yorker moving to Los Angeles for instance. The differences are pretty huge and even though everyone speaks the same language, you'll be recognized as an outsider. At first there's obviously the differences of walking, phrasing, and speaking wrong (and getting spotted as an outsider for it), but even after that everything is localized to some extent. Just like you said Sweden and Norway are similar culturally but there's still differences, there are the same type of differences IMHO between eastern and western United States.
The one thing that will screw you over in the states is geography. There are cities you can move to like Salt Lake City where if you've been living your whole life at sea level, good luck with your breathing since everything in a 500km radius is a mountain.
On May 03 2013 18:47 stenole wrote: That we speak different languages in Europe not only stops us from exchanging cultural impulses but it also complicates the process of moving to the other country, so migration is less than it would have otherwise been. The individual education systems further pushes a wedge between us because our countries will primarily teach literature and history from a national perspective. If I move from Norway to Sweden, I will retain my Norwegian identity no matter how much I assimilate to their alien society. Can the same thing be said for someone who moves from Pennsylvania to Maryland?
Yes, 100%. If you attend college in the states; you'll quickly realize that student self-identify as locals and foreign. I attended college in-state and I remember how we'd never forget who was from out-of-state. That was very much their identity. I had a cousin who did the opposite; went to college out-of-state; he hung out with other out-of-state people and teased the locals for having such weird customs. These identities very much stick with you.
And it isn't just college, I have a co-worker who's been living in my state for 10 years and until he told me that I always assumed he had recently moved from New York. It was that obvious that he wasn't from around here.
Edit: You'd probably be surprised by how different the education standards in different states are; and I don't even mean the states where everyone's an idiot either. A friend of mine grew up in Texas and his grammar is so much better than everyone else we know, because when he was in school that was what they emphasis; but where the rest of us went to school, the emphasis was on science.
While it's undeniable that America runs on English (even if America officially has no national language) making cultural exchanges much more fluid; different parts of the country do have very different influence. The American Southwest has a heavy Spanish Influence; Louisiana a French influence; heavy Scandanavian settlements in the Mid-West (early American immigration policy was to stick them in the coldest part of the country).
I've traveled to the states twice but i was quite young.
But from what i've seen, read and learned about the USA, that are many differences beetween states.
Even Portugal that has a very strong national identity but is very small and only has 10 million people have their own regional identity culture that belongs to a bigger portuguese culture.. That can be slight diffencies in the speach or vocabulary, different foods or way or tought.. etc..
A person from Alabama is not the same has a New yorker and a Texan is not a Miami or California resident!
And don't forget USA has many immigrants that also influence and change the local culture
On May 03 2013 19:53 Nothingtosay wrote: People who have never lived in the US or at least visited multiple states will probably be astoundingly ignorant of the differences in our nation.
I've been to the US a couple of times, in different states, and I'd say Hollywood prepared me pretty well for the cultural differences. It is very noticeable, but not extreme. If you're talking about ignorance, try being a swede (I don't identify as a European) talking to someone from the States. Any state. 80% of you think of Europe as some sort of homogenous country, and that's being generous. Ask yourself, how often have you heard someone say "European accent" or something equally absurd? I'm probably equally ignorant about other parts of the world though..
On May 03 2013 19:53 Nothingtosay wrote: People who have never lived in the US or at least visited multiple states will probably be astoundingly ignorant of the differences in our nation.
I've been to the US a couple of times, in different states, and I'd say Hollywood prepared me pretty well for the cultural differences. It is very noticeable, but not extreme. If you're talking about ignorance, try being a swede (I don't identify as a European) talking to someone from the States. Any state. 80% of you think of Europe as some sort of homogenous country, and that's being generous. Ask yourself, how often have you heard someone say "European accent" or something equally absurd? I'm probably equally ignorant about other parts of the world though..
Man, I don't think it's too surprising that most USA-citizens have no idea what goes on in the world.
If local politics / culture in Germany were as interesting as American politics / culture, I wouldn't even bother trying to understand global politics / culture. Just compare presidential elections to the snoozefest that is German politics.
It's much more captivating to be part of a culture that rules the modern world than it is to hear about financial dilemmas in Greece for the better part of a year.
It's certainly annoying when semi-moron* Americans get on your case because you're ignorant about the USA while they have no clue about the rest of the world, but seriously, it's hard to blame them.
Europeans have the more intriguing history, Americans have the more intriguing present.
*not to imply that attribute applies to more than just a small fraction of USA citizens...
On May 03 2013 19:53 Nothingtosay wrote: People who have never lived in the US or at least visited multiple states will probably be astoundingly ignorant of the differences in our nation.
I've been to the US a couple of times, in different states, and I'd say Hollywood prepared me pretty well for the cultural differences. It is very noticeable, but not extreme. If you're talking about ignorance, try being a swede (I don't identify as a European) talking to someone from the States. Any state. 80% of you think of Europe as some sort of homogenous country, and that's being generous. Ask yourself, how often have you heard someone say "European accent" or something equally absurd? I'm probably equally ignorant about other parts of the world though..
I consider a Swede to be a european.. you don't feel like you are?
I say Sweden is a important part of europe and i feel like atleast in Portugal, Sweden is respect and admired like a great european country.
BTW There are way more differences in culture and identity among european countrys that beetween any american state. Lets just say all of europe has thousands of years of it's own history and most of us speak other languages and have different
USA doesn't even have 250 years and has a former colony are made of "immigrants".. not the same thing!
USA history is a mingle of other countrys cultural heritage, fuzed into they own history!
For those Americans who voted yes (seems to be a large majority), does NYC and rural New York have a common culture? Or Miami and the Florida panhandle?
[QUOTE]On May 03 2013 20:34 shell wrote: [QUOTE]On May 03 2013 20:13 helvete wrote: [QUOTE]On May 03 2013 19:53 Nothingtosay wrote: People who have never lived in the US or at least visited multiple states will probably be astoundingly ignorant of the differences in our nation.[/QUOTE] I've been to the US a couple of times, in different states, and I'd say Hollywood prepared me pretty well for the cultural differences. It is very noticeable, but not extreme. If you're talking about ignorance, try being a swede (I don't identify as a European) talking to someone from the States. Any state. 80% of you think of Europe as some sort of homogenous country, and that's being generous. Ask yourself, how often have you heard someone say "European accent" or something equally absurd? I'm probably equally ignorant about other parts of the world though.. [/QUOTE]
I consider a Swede to be a european.. you don't feel like you are?
I say Sweden is a important part of europe and i feel like atleast in Portugal, Sweden is respect and admired like a great european country.
BTW There are way more differences in culture and identity among european countrys that beetween any american state. Lets just say all of europe has thousands of years of it's own history and most of us speak our own languages and have different cultural perks
USA doesn't even have 250 years and has a former colony are made of "immigrants".. not the same thing!
USA history is a mingle of other countrys cultural heritage, fuzed into they own history!
On May 03 2013 19:53 Nothingtosay wrote: People who have never lived in the US or at least visited multiple states will probably be astoundingly ignorant of the differences in our nation.
I've been to the US a couple of times, in different states, and I'd say Hollywood prepared me pretty well for the cultural differences. It is very noticeable, but not extreme. If you're talking about ignorance, try being a swede (I don't identify as a European) talking to someone from the States. Any state. 80% of you think of Europe as some sort of homogenous country, and that's being generous. Ask yourself, how often have you heard someone say "European accent" or something equally absurd? I'm probably equally ignorant about other parts of the world though..
Europeans have the more intriguing history, Americans have the more intriguing present.
It's arguable that Europe has a more intriguing future though. At least, from a technical standpoint, it's in a state of flux and therefore is more intriguing. What could happen going forward is interesting. If we became a big country, Europe would have a large economy and population than America, and perhaps command as much if not more attention on the world stage. Which would be interesting. Seeing as I consider America the 'good guy' Superpower, we would be there to stand with them on things like human rights issues, but also be able to put pressure on America when they abandon their principles which they are wont to do with impunity.
On May 03 2013 19:53 Nothingtosay wrote: People who have never lived in the US or at least visited multiple states will probably be astoundingly ignorant of the differences in our nation.
on the other hand, compared to other parts of the world (europe / asia) the differences in the US are negligible so confusion about differences in culture are understandable.
Well my prejudices would be that Texas is very conservative and gun-friendly and alabama even racist. This is pretty much the most of "culture" I know from individual states.
Arkansas alone has a unique culture that separates us from the rest of the South, let alone the nation. Our local government is odd mixture of nonsense, with incredibly liberal fiscal policies (open and honest about the need to feed our fellow Arkansans with our tax dollars) while at the same time being increasingly (overly so, in my opinion) conservative on issues such as gay marriage and abortion.
I view it as a special implementation as that southern, Arkansas Baptist that wants to aid their fellow man while being incredibly conservative on social issues. We also, of course, understand the need for federal Medicare and such, so while we have gone Republican in the last 8 or so presidential elections, we have continuously elected a Democrat as Governor and usually have a Republican/Democrat House/Senate. We actually have a Republican dominated House/Senate, but that was bought by lobbyists and is the first of its kind since Reconstruction (so...1865-ish).
While Arkansas walks a thin line between our seemingly conflicted stances (which we've made work wonderfully, we've been operating on a surplus for years), you have states just nearby like Texas that is almost obnoxiously conservative and states rights oriented, continuously shouting about secession and other nonsense. Then you have places like Mississippi, which we all laugh at in the South.
Basically, what I'm saying, is it's not even as easy as North/South culture. It goes even deeper, especially in the South, and get as specific as region by region. Ozarks Arkansas is world's different than Delta Arkansas, just like Urban Arkansas is completely different than, say, Houston, Texas.
You're objectively wrong if you think otherwise. There's a noticeable difference between rural Minnesota and Twin Cities Minnesota, or rural Minnesota and rural Iowa. To compare two different states like Minnesota and Kentucky would be like comparing two different European countries.
on the other hand, compared to other parts of the world (europe / asia) the differences in the US are negligible so confusion about differences in culture are understandable.
No, they're really not. Going from California to Minnesota to Alabama to Massachusetts will show you so many cultural differences that it would be similar (although not quite as extreme) to going between England, France, Germany, and Italy. Hell, we all speak English but we even speak different dialects.
On May 03 2013 21:11 Stratos_speAr wrote: To compare two different states like Minnesota and Kentucky would be like comparing two different European countries.
On May 03 2013 21:11 Stratos_speAr wrote: To compare two different states like Minnesota and Kentucky would be like comparing two different European countries.
i am pretty sure that this is not the case
Edit: I guess I should clarify things since it's so early in the morning around here.
The difference isn't literally state by state; there aren't 50 different unique cultures. It's not Minnesota vs. Wisconsin culture and that's so radically different that it's comparable to Europe. What's comparable is regional culture. Minnesota/Dakotas/Wisconsin/Iowa is a completely distinct culture from the deep south, which is distinct from the west coast, which is distinct from the Northeast, etc., and these regions are very analogous to comparing two countries like Germany/France or England/France, even if they speak the same language.
Really, aside from English (which has a huge amount of dialects in this country), there is very little that makes Minnesota, Washington state, or Kentucky similar culturally.
Walmart? McDonald's? These massive corporations are evenly spread out through different continents, let alone states.
Love of American sports? Seattle-ites are MASSIVE soccer fans and Minnesota likes hockey as much as Canadians whereas Kentucky is all about college basketball and football.
Language? Have you ever HEARD a Kentucky-ite speak? The accent alone makes it sound like we're speaking different languages. We often have completely different dialects, with different words for certain things and different expressions/phrases, or even saying the same word differently, so it's not like this is a "common bond" that bridges the gap between our cultures, even if it is the same language.
Laws? Completely different, down to what is taxed and what isn't. Perfect example: at my college, out-of-state students are always pleasantly surprised to find that 1) the state tax in MN is 6.5% on retail sales and 2) there is no sales tax on clothes or food. Speed limits? Completely different. What you can buy or not? Can't buy fireworks in MN, but you can in other states. The list goes on and on.
Food culture? This is one of the obvious differences around the country. Anyone who has heard legends about southern cooking knows this.
History? Ancestry? All of this is completely different for certain regions, and the only similarity is the federal government.
Ethnicity? Background? Also completely different. Minnesota is almost completely Scandanavian/German, while the biggest minority population is Hmong. Kentucky is mostly English and Irish and their largest minority is African American.
Even the seasons and weather make activities and past times completely different. It's 3 May here in MN and we still have snow in southern MN. Kentucky probably barely saw snow for most of the year. Washington basically always rains and it's always cool out there. Florida is so humid that you feel like you're living in the Devil's armpit. inland California has a dry heat that makes you want to roll over and die. Hell, I still get asked this question routinely, "Is ice fishing ACTUALLY a thing here in Minnesota?"
I mean this list could go on and on but you get the point.
I don't think State lines are a good way to draw the live because there are cultural differences inside states (Northern v Southern Cali, Western Pa v Eastern Pa, Michigan glove part v upper peninsula, Indiana's Chicago v Cincinnati burbs, etc.). I think municipal areas are probably better, for instance I'd lump Detroit, Cleveland, Youngstown, and Pittsburgh as fairly similar culturally (although Pittsburgh could probably be dropped since they have their own unique dialect). While geographically close rural areas have cultural similarity, the bible belt consists of multiple states that have similar religious and social values and share the same rural culture with each other (obviously their will be towns in those states that don't fit).
and how many cultural studies have you done and how did you define culture? oh and you all speak different dialects yeah thats almost like different languages. (hint: all countires have different dialects, i for example do not understand germans from the southern germany and i have real troubles understanding the ones in the east or the older generations in the west).
I love when people say stuff like.. "California is really liberal, and Texas is really conservative". When what a lot of people outside the USA don't realize is that everyone, is everywhere here. Califonia can't get gmo crops labelled, or pass gay marriage (Even though they for sure have the largest gay population in the USA). How's that "Liberal" working out for ya? More liberal people tend to live in larger cities, but 50% of that population is in rural areas. The most racist, redneck, hillbilly people I have ever met were in New York, and Pennsylvania, not in Alabama, or Arkansas.
In America we have multiple cultures, but because of the media, I feel like people only see, or can't see through the stereotypes that are projected. It might sound silly, but being from Texas, you wouldn't believe how many people outside the USA have asked me if I rode horses, or own guns.
The arrogance of assuming that dialects are unique or especially prominent in the US is really showing.. everyone has them. I don't have any problem with any US dialect, but several from the UK are much more diverse and harder to understand. The US HAS cultural differences, no one is denying that, but they pale in comparison with much of the rest of the world.
On May 03 2013 21:26 hfglgg wrote: and how many cultural studies have you done and how did you define culture? oh and you all speak different dialects yeah thats almost like different languages. (hint: all countires have different dialects, i for example do not understand germans from the southern germany and i have real troubles understanding the ones in the east or the older generations in the west).
I like how you assume that a country which is larger than the EU, where most states developed in a time when traveling long distances was difficult, composed largely of immigrants that settled various parts, would have a single homogeneous culture.
On May 03 2013 21:34 helvete wrote: The arrogance of assuming that dialects are unique or especially prominent in the US is really showing.. everyone has them. I don't have any problem with any US dialect, but several from the UK are much more diverse and harder to understand. The US HAS cultural differences, no one is denying that, but they pale in comparison with much of the rest of the world.
Plenty of Europeans in this thread have come into it with an assumed arrogance of European superiority (or more diverse set of cultures, in this case). What you guys aren't understanding is that culture is more defined by geographic regions than national lines (even though the latter has a major influence). The U.S. is significantly larger than Europe, so yes, we have a very large amount of cultural diversity. This is, undoubtedly, the most diverse nation in the world currently.
ok so just for the records: language does not play any part in culture diversification at all? it does not come to your mind that when people cant communicate with each other (which they could not until english became really wide spread the last 30 years or so) different cultures have to emerge even on a very restricted and small area like europe (which has a bigger population as welll).
On May 03 2013 21:48 Velr wrote: And then comes in the guy with the american superiority complex and puts everyone in place!
Just because I don't bow down to a European superiority complex means that I have an American one? Look in the mirror, champ. Just because I stated an observed fact doesn't mean I have an American superiority complex. If you want to criticize me, you should probably realize that I am routinely an incredibly harsh critic of American culture and policies on this very website, so it's stupid to say that I have some kind of "American superiority complex".
ok so just for the records: language does not play any part in culture diversification at all? it does not come to your mind that when people cant communicate with each other (which they could not until english became really wide spread the last 30 years or so) different cultures have to emerge even on a very restricted and small area like europe (which has a bigger population as welll).
yeah....
First, I never said anything about languages NOT aiding in cultural diversity. You literally made that shit up.
Second, don't pretend that you were all secluded hermits before 30 years ago. Obviously diverse languages -> diverse culture, but to even attempt to say that Europeans were "unable to communicate" is patently absurd.
Does Europe have more diverse culture than the USA? Of course it does, you are talking about multiple countries, where over 200 different languages are spoke, and nations that are hundreds and hundreds of years old. But comparing one country, to an entire continent of multiple countries is really comparing apples to oranges. I think the fact that most people in the USA all speak one language, and pretty much only one language people have trouble seeing them apart. Sure, there are immigrants and small patches of people who speak other languages, but English is the primary language, where as Europe has 23 official languages, and giant groups of people speak those languages.
The U.S. was set up so the States had their own identity. Over the years, the Federal Government has been doing its best to reduce that. Also, I can't think of two States that have held their own unique identity more than Texas and Alaska. Alaska because of their isolation and resources, and Texas because of their State "Pride". I moved to Texas for a short time a while back, and immediately noticed how much more people identified themselves as Texans than I had ever known. It's very much ingrained in the culture in Texas, compared to the rest of the Continental U.S.
Language? Have you ever HEARD a Kentucky-ite speak? The accent alone makes it sound like we're speaking different languages. We often have completely different dialects, with different words for certain things and different expressions/phrases, or even saying the same word differently, so it's not like this is a "common bond" that bridges the gap between our cultures, even if it is the same language.
The hell? I talk to someone from Kentucky and I can understand exactly what they are saying. I talt to someone from Northern California, Texas, Arizona, Louisiana or Minnesota and I understand them perfectly. Sure the use weird words sometimes and we make fun of them for that but it's really just slight accent differences.
From Florida to Texas to California, that's just the south....hell yeah. The tallest white people I have ever seen are Texans. Me being an average height black man 5 11. I noticed something odd about our football teams here in Texas. I lived in the city of Houston for awhile before moving further into the country side. And the noticeable difference in how much larger their high school football players were to ours was self evident. Not only is the culture different once I moved towards the country, the appearance is also noticeably different as well. Country folk are gaints.
Also no one has mentioned, Hawaii or Alaska for some reason.
The weather is different from state to state. And that surely affects the culture. Central USA with its tornadoes, the East coast with its hurricane seasons, California with its hell on Earth effects and Seattle with the constant rain. We don't get a lot of snow where I live in Texas.
The states have roughly the same amount of cultural diversity and distinctiveness as, say, Europe, it just appears less because we all speak the same language (more or less) and our history is much shorter. I'm sure most foreign TV shows and movies show a generalized view of all Americans, just like we see a generalized view of all Russians, all Australians, all Scandanavians, all French, etc.
Sure has every state(region) it´s own culture or subculture. Some states have more or less differsity from the primary culture USA or from each other but saying their regions don´t have any culture is ignorant. The same is true for every other country around the world. If you say to me as someone from the ruhrpott i would share the same culture as a bavarian because we both are german, it would just not be 100% true. We share some culture in the country level but we don´t share subculture in the region level.
-We do have differences by state but... -the differences are more in the rural/urban divide -ex: NYC vs rural NY, Portland vs everything outside portland, Atlanta vs Georgia -on the east coast where states are generally smaller, identities are more regional than by state -which isn't to say that east coast states don't have their weird quirks -Alabamans are southerners with a weird obsession with "Roll Tide!" -Louisiana has cajun flavored southerners -Rhode Island are Massachusetts are both of the New England culture but have slightly different accents etc. -The differences in culture between California and Nevada are much smaller than the differences between even France and French speaking Switzerland -But as a corollary, differences in ethnic diversity are much greater between CA and NV than any country I visited in Europe.
Maybe not ALL states, but there are definitely many regions with different cultures. Hell, sometimes even one state may have very different cultures, just look at Virginia. Northern Virginia may as well be a completely separate entity from the rest of the state, which is largely rural.
Urban areas tend to have more transient cultures than rural areas, so I'm only going to consider rural in this:
No. It's divided regionally. Internally, NY's in Western NY on the Pennsylvania border have more in common with the people in Pennsylvania than people in NY once you get out around the Finger Lakes.
I tend to think of the cultural similarities of any two areas being primarily dependent on two key factors: The Ethnic make-up, and the geography. If those are similar, then the cultures are likely indiscernible.
Yes the different states do have very different cultures. Hell, different boroughs in New York City have different cultures for that matter. Take a walk around Brooklyn and then take the subway 2 stops into Manhattan and you are in another world.
I have a perfect example. I work at a big corporation that has employees all over the country and I'm based out of Connecticut. The other day we had a conference call with some of our employees in West Virginia. One of the Virginians greeted my boss with a "Howdy, Ma'am!". This was a big mistake because my boss was very offended at being called "Ma'am". In West Virginia, this is a sign of respect but in Connecticut calling someone Ma'am is considered condescending, or implying that she is an old lady. Its a silly example, but if you go on a trip around the states you will find that in different places people eat differently, act differently, and speak differently, watch different TV shows etc. This is coming from a guy who lived in Europe for a semester and spent 6 months living in China, so I am well versed in how different cultures can be. Cultures in the U.S. are very different from state to state.
Thing is, US states don't have much more defining culture than regions in other countries. Regions in Sweden have their own dialect, their own flags, their own history, their own cousine etc. Yes US states have their own culture, but not more so than administrative zones in other countries. National states are typically even more defined.
On May 03 2013 22:53 Euronyme wrote: Thing is, US states don't have much more defining culture than regions in other countries. Regions in Sweden have their own dialect, their own flags, their own history, their own cousine etc. Yes US states have their own culture, but not more so than administrative zones in other countries. National states are typically even more defined.
This is silly. The dialect, flag, cuisine, and history are different and distinct from Boston to New York.
The US is much younger than Europe and has had unifying cultural factors for a greater part of its history. From the invention of films and radio to migration and the draft the formation of isolated cultural pockets has been limited. I believe this is different from the way towns in England developed their own dialects and subcultures over the centuries because the same conditions were not present for long enough. Looking at this at a state level perhaps misunderstands what people in Europe mean, I live in Liverpool (a medium sized city) and you can tell where people grew up and went to school in Liverpool by variations in the ccent. We're talking about pinpointing people's origin within a few miles.
I'm sure most of the lack of understanding of local identity and culture between states is just due to general ignorance, and perhaps a bit of a misconception that because we all generally speak the same language it must be the same culture (completely ignoring all of the Spanish speaking areas of the US in our South, but just trying to make a basic point.) I totally understand it, I've been to both Italy and France and frankly I don't see that much different in the two cultures beyond the language they speak and the wines they prefer. I'm sure any natives of these countries wouldn't agree, an Italian might point to the vastly different cultures of Sicily and northern Italy and say making such a comparison is silly as there isn't one type of "Italian" to be compared to a "French" person. And they'd be right.
People sometimes forget how big the US is, and how small Western Europe is. I don't believe anybody who has spent even a little time in different parts of the US honestly believes it's all the same.
There are different cultures but state lines are a very bad way of delineating them. State lines were drawn long before people settled down in many places in the US. The differences are mostly regional and centered around big cities. Highly populated states like California have a divide between Northern California and Southern California while many mountain states may share the same culture.
Different regions have huge differences in ethnic diversity as well. California, where I live, is around 40% Latino and 15% Asian already. That has a huge influence in local culture. We eat a lot of fusion type dishes here, for example.
My impression was that the US are quite diverse, but it seemed to be based on regions rather that state borders. And i guess thats true in every country. I've grown up in Hanover; Lower Saxony, now i live in the south of Baden and everyone here can tell i'm from northern germany, many even get the city right.
In many places the cultural divide is distinct at state borders. Look at Nevada vs Utah. Political leanings, unemployment rates, accents, demographics all change dramatically at the state line. The change from Jersey City to Manhatten is less stark than Manhatten to Buffalo, however. But Colorado to Kansas, Kansas to Oklahoma, and many others, the state lines are distinct cultural dividers.
In the UK, the accents are very distinct from town to town. Manchester to Liverpool are night and day. Nottingham to Sheffield is also a huge change in like 20 miles, but the culture is probably more hemogenous, accents aside. Though people from London would look at me and ask "what did he say?" When someone from Newcastle was speaking.
On May 03 2013 23:13 Ventris wrote: My impression was that the US are quite diverse, but it seemed to be based on regions rather that state borders. And i guess thats true in every country. I've grown up in Hanover; Lower Saxony, now i live in the south of Baden and everyone here can tell i'm from northern germany, many even get the city right.
my uncle moved from southerm baden württemberg with his family where he has lived his entire live to Bremen, i wonder what noticeable difference there is from baden württemberg and niedersachsen (sorry off topic)
On May 04 2013 00:01 Barrin wrote: Resounding YES!
I guess I'll start with my state: Florida, the Sunshine State *cough*swamp*cough*. You think you know summer? You don't know summer. We go to the beach. Hot babes. Rich old people like to retire with expensive houses down here. Though the farthest south you can't really call us the cultural "south". Increased anger level of most people by a few notches due to the heat. Disney World :>.
Texas. Where everything is big, 'MURICA! Cowboys! Lol, depending on where you go in Texas you can find yourself in very different landscapes with quite different people tbh. It's a big place.
California. Significant liberal/progessive slant. Lots of cool landscape/mountains including tons of beach, south gets hot north gets snow. Hot skinny chicks. Gangs. Governator, lolol (will never get old). Disney Land :>
Utah. Mormons. Big lake.
(currently) Washington, Colorado. Marijuana!
Idaho, Oregon. Potatoes.
Nevada. Desert.
Arizona. Grand Canyon! More desert.
Alaska. Way too cold.. snow... they badass up there.
New York. Really tall cities! Wall Street.
Rhode Island just wants to be left alone.
Hawaii. Surfing, hula girls, ukuleles.
It's almost like you only know anything about this country because you watched television shows? "New York. Really tall cities!"... That defines culture? Dubai, Mecca, Taipei... They have tall buildings too, they must be culturally the same as New York. Thanks for clearing that up. They can lock the thread now.
On May 03 2013 23:13 Ventris wrote: My impression was that the US are quite diverse, but it seemed to be based on regions rather that state borders. And i guess thats true in every country. I've grown up in Hanover; Lower Saxony, now i live in the south of Baden and everyone here can tell i'm from northern germany, many even get the city right.
my uncle moved from southerm baden württemberg with his family where he has lived his entire live to Bremen, i wonder what noticeable difference there is from baden württemberg and niedersachsen (sorry off topic)
Aside from the obvious things like dialect, cuisine and traditions there is a really severe difference in mentality between Baden-Württemberg and Niedersachsen. Heck, there is even one between Baden and Württemberg. (That one is founded in history)
In Hanover most people were rather closed up and had some kind of "mean what they say, no smalltalk" mentality. The first six months in Freiburg felt like living in a country full of ever friendly hedonists.
edit: Though to be honest the south is far more diverse. You could easily argue for the existence of a distinct North-German culture. Thanks to the Prussians.
I live in North Carolina, and the cultural difference between North Carolina and South Carolina is pretty astounding. I love how people that don't live here try to tell us our states don't have culture.
On May 03 2013 16:00 Tatari wrote: I don't think it's really limited to each state, but particular regions. My philosophy teacher said California is the perfect example of a melting pot, and in Idaho you get people thinking Taco Bell is the real deal when it comes to Mexican food. Texas and the other southern states have their own culture, and the west and east coasts are very different from each other.
Phyren brings up a good point about the accents. There's some subtle to absolutely horrendous variations on pronunciations throughout the states.
This dude pointed out the exact problem of the OP, and he did it on accident. I'm from Idaho. Everyone I know does NOT think Taco Bell is "the real deal when it comes to mexican food."
Much like the person mentioned by the OP, you are making a generalization about an entire community without actually understanding the inner workings of that community. Briton made a comment suggesting that US states have little to no identity, but the fact of the matter is if you live in any of these states, you see a HUGE difference between who YOU are, and people from other states. Of course, you will make generalizations about ALL people in that state, but once you understand that environment, you will no longer think that.
This conversation is similar to music conversations I have. I know a lot of people that will say that "All rap music is crap" or "all metal is, is blaring guitars and screaming" or "country songs are all about how your dog died, your wife left you, and your truck is broken." But anyone who genuinely listens to any of these genres would completely disagree. When I bring up Macklemore to people, they immediately assume he's a one hit wonder - but the people who say that have heard maybe 1 or 2 songs of his, MAYBE. If they heard the rest of his songs, they wouldn't say that.
The point is that Briton made a generalization because (no offense) of his ignorance to the environment that is the states of the US. The post I have quoted did the same thing about Idaho, and people have been making these same generalizations for a long time (see: music example). I won't say it's "human nature" because I fucking hate when people say that. It's not human nature, it's society's pressures of intelligence. I'm going to have to write a blog about this...
On May 04 2013 00:18 Tewks44 wrote: I live in North Carolina, and the cultural difference between North Carolina and South Carolina is pretty astounding. I love how people that don't live here try to tell us our states don't have culture.
I actually think that's based on language-barriers. Many people think of "culture" as in "developed by history", hard to explain. I actually can't pinpoint exactly what i mean in english. I do think that different states have different cultures (influenced alot by immigrants for example) - but i do understand when someone says that america didn't really.. develop something? I can't explain what i mean, frustrating. -.-
Well, that was a helpful post again. At least i tried. :/
People underestimate how must distain there is for other Midwestern states. Everyone knows north and south dakota are chill but Minnesota and Wisconsin are worlds apart. Wisconsin is a wildly unorganized mess of a state that has no idea what a city is suppose to look like. Minnesota trys to be the best state in the union at everything. And I mean everything. Duluth for one year had a higher shipping tonnage then New york did, while only being in service for 9 months out of the year. In our capital we've got an amazing artsy scene and a solid gold chariot on our capital (only being 4 in existence with 2 on the german capital building and one here). Wisconsin doesn't even have a capital city I don't think, their football team is in green bay for gods sake.
Our politics are also awesome. You want to know how Tim paulenty got elected governor? In 2 weeks left in the race his opponent was up by 16% in the polls. What did the guy do to lose that race? He yelled at a reporter and all of Minnesota switched their vote on him not being "Minnesota nice". We also send the shittiest representative to congress and the first muslum to congress. and yes we elected a professional wrestler to governor in Minnesota. I still don't know why we did it but it felt like a good decision at the time.
so yes i am the one the OP was talking about and i dislike the retarded comment .
for the record i did not say that america had no culture, what i said and stand by is that if you were to take two states and swap half of there people/ area you would not have as big a cultural difference as if you took Britain and France(or other European countries) and swapped them.
i'll admit to being ignorant on the vast majority of all the states local history, and i don't deny that each state will have its own identity but to say that the difference between a New York resident and a Washington DC resident is more varied than a Londoner and a Berlin resident is silly to me.
@OP: nice to see a discussion on this i'm enjoying the examples of the difference in US culture appearing
Edit: rereading the OP can i point out i did not at any point say the United states had only one culture but instead had one that was not as markedly diverse as Europe does
On May 04 2013 00:28 hoby2000 wrote:The point is that Briton made a generalization because (no offense) of his ignorance to the environment that is the states of the US
I have personally dealt with this and it is true. Saying regions of the US all have the same culture is about as ignorant as saying Kenya and Ethiopia are the same. For example, the cultural differences between California and the states right on its border are MASSIVE.
The answer is definitely yes lol. I'd say even regions in states are different. North Tennessee is much different from Mid Tennessee is nothing like South Tennessee.
I DON'T KNOW ABOUT Y'ALL BUT I LIVE IN TEXAS, WHERE EVERYTHING IS BIGGER--EVEN THE LETTERS.
Sorry about that. More seriously, Texas (due to it formerly being an independent nation) definitely has its own thing going on culturally. Our State constitution even claims supremacy over all others (namely the federal constitution)--which causes our state supreme court to occasionally rule in direct opposition to the SCOTUS. And our jackass Governor jokes about seceding whenever the Feds do something he doesn't like--which, technically, is a unique right that Texas still has under the terms under which the Republic of Texas became a United State (EDIT: NOT TRUE--Though I was taught that Texas reserved the right to secede in school, it is a myth.), but would never happen.
That said, all Americans live in the United States of Wal-Mart, where every city has a Target, a Chili's, and 50 other chain stores that make it increasingly difficult to tell one place from another.
IMO there is culture and uniqueness to be found all across America--if you look for it. There is also a ton of blandness, mindless conformity, runaway consumerism, waste and stupidity--but I prefer to focus on the good stuff.
so yes i am the one the OP was talking about and i dislike the retarded comment .
for the record i did not say that america had no culture, what i said and stand by is that if you were to take two states and swap half of there people/ area you would not have as big a cultural difference as if you took Britain and France(or other European countries) and swapped them.
i'll admit to being ignorant on the vast majority of all the states local history, and i don't deny that each state will have its own identity but to say that the difference between a New York resident and a Washington DC resident is more varied than a Londoner and a Berlin resident is silly to me.
@OP: nice to see a discussion on this i'm enjoying the examples of the difference in US culture appearing
Edit: rereading the OP can i point out i did not at any point say the United states had only one culture but instead had one that was not as markedly diverse as Europe does
On reflection, I really think the OP's post is pointless. Of course countries have regional differences. Heck, any collection of people are going to have 'cultural differences' - just look at schools, universities or inside a workplace; let alone within a city or a state or a country. The only real way to make sense of the OP's post is to compare the degree of cultural variation within the US to other countries. And yes, i don't think anyone can reasonably disagree that there is less cultural variation in the US than in Europe.
The state's issue is that it's so big and diverse it has a multitude of identities encapsulated within its borders so it's not that it doesn't have a identity but that it has so many they get mixed up and look jumbled together.
It's easy to have many different identities as "Americans" when you have 360+ million people living in your nation; each person calls themselves American yet they can be polar opposites.
It would be wierd if there were no cultural differences in such a big country with that different landscapes, climate zones etc. but you can't really compare that to europe were you have areas that are as big as Texas with about 15 different languages and hundreds of different dialects. Also religions and religous denominations are focused to small local areas which obviously has an huge cultural influence. There are several places in europe that have expirienced civil wars or terroristic organisations because of cultural differences.
North America has just more of a mixture of cultures everywhere thats why a lot of people from all over the world even came to america because they were suppressed or haunted in their home.
so yes i am the one the OP was talking about and i dislike the retarded comment .
for the record i did not say that america had no culture, what i said and stand by is that if you were to take two states and swap half of there people/ area you would not have as big a cultural difference as if you took Britain and France(or other European countries) and swapped them.
i'll admit to being ignorant on the vast majority of all the states local history, and i don't deny that each state will have its own identity but to say that the difference between a New York resident and a Washington DC resident is more varied than a Londoner and a Berlin resident is silly to me.
@OP: nice to see a discussion on this i'm enjoying the examples of the difference in US culture appearing
Edit: rereading the OP can i point out i did not at any point say the United states had only one culture but instead had one that was not as markedly diverse as Europe does
On reflection, I really think the OP's post is pointless. Of course countries have regional differences. Heck, any collection of people are going to have 'cultural differences' - just look at schools, universities or inside a workplace; let alone within a city or a state or a country. The only real way to make sense of the OP's post is to compare the degree of cultural variation within the US to other countries. And yes, i don't think anyone can reasonably disagree that there is less cultural variation in the US than in Europe.
That's actually not true. I would probably argue there is more simply due to the amount of cultures that have settled here. There are micro cultures here, just as there are in Europe, but the difference between a Londoner and a Berliner is going to be similar to a New York kid and a California kid, they might speak english, but the dialects, slang, everything about their personalities and how they view life or the world itself is going to vary enormously. Just because we are all in the same country doesn't mean that we all see things in any similar sort of way.
At the very least, states all have stereotypes. The culture may not differ too greatly between them (especially those out in the midwest with no major (MAJOR) cities.
so yes i am the one the OP was talking about and i dislike the retarded comment .
for the record i did not say that america had no culture, what i said and stand by is that if you were to take two states and swap half of there people/ area you would not have as big a cultural difference as if you took Britain and France(or other European countries) and swapped them.
i'll admit to being ignorant on the vast majority of all the states local history, and i don't deny that each state will have its own identity but to say that the difference between a New York resident and a Washington DC resident is more varied than a Londoner and a Berlin resident is silly to me.
@OP: nice to see a discussion on this i'm enjoying the examples of the difference in US culture appearing
Edit: rereading the OP can i point out i did not at any point say the United states had only one culture but instead had one that was not as markedly diverse as Europe does
On reflection, I really think the OP's post is pointless. Of course countries have regional differences. Heck, any collection of people are going to have 'cultural differences' - just look at schools, universities or inside a workplace; let alone within a city or a state or a country. The only real way to make sense of the OP's post is to compare the degree of cultural variation within the US to other countries. And yes, i don't think anyone can reasonably disagree that there is less cultural variation in the US than in Europe.
Actually, "reason" in this instance would predicate a refusal to make a judgement as cursory as that; given that you almost certainly do not have enough experience with either locale, making a judgement such as this can only be called hasty. Furthermore, any sort of cultural variation comparison is going to run into enormous problems when it comes to clarifying terms and precisely how we measure "culture". Music, art, theatre, language, civics, architecture, food scene, religion, sports, parks/natural features, roadway design, bar scene/drinking culture, university/student culture, ethnic neighborhoods, suburban design, public transportation, fashion, age demographics, the list goes on. All of these are variables with variable value in the eyes of the beholder, making any sort of objective declarations rather silly. Unless one puts an inordinate amount of importance on language, justifying the claim that Europe is more diverse than the US will be supremely difficult.
I was born in Connecticut, and was raised and went to college in the Great Swing State, Ohio. To throw out some of Ohio's cultural aspects: FOOTBALL, egg farms, flat land, auto industry, dum dum lollipops, Polish, Irish, and German centric ethnicities, LeBron, more presidents than any other state, more men in space than any other state, and I could most certainly go on.
On May 04 2013 00:18 Tewks44 wrote: I live in North Carolina, and the cultural difference between North Carolina and South Carolina is pretty astounding. I love how people that don't live here try to tell us our states don't have culture.
I think, what most people critisize about USA is not directly put towards you as individuals but as a society. Because, what imanates if you take an outside look is not heterogene at all, actually postmodernists would argue that USA, in its liberalism, promotes homogeneity of identies and the hyper individualism inherent from the capitalist view's USA is spreading around the world under the form of hegemony and world market laws. Lyotard, foucault are amongst those you can read on the postmodern condition in which we live now with globalization.
although it couldnt be more true that there are subcultures in USA people in NYC arent the same than in LA that is not the question.
I grew up in Vermont and moved to Florida a few years ago. The biggest cultural differences I've noticed is that in Florida people are a lot more religion focused compared to VT. Growing up, I didn't know a single kid who went to church regularly but here in FL I meet people who do all the time. Other than that I can't really say. There is less stoner culture here, people are a lot less into the outdoors (not counting the beach), but that's all I've noticed.
I can't really speak for the educational system since I never went to school here but from what I've heard it's rather lackluster and very test-focused.
as a *foreigner*,i think the answer to your question is to slowly absorb singapore and ghana,as to be sure that you have different cultures in the us.this could be done in a number of ways,which im sure you can imagine. The only problem you be the god-given absolute freedom to bear arms,which they might not agree to. more cultural diversity,just what the doctor prescribed!
so yes i am the one the OP was talking about and i dislike the retarded comment .
for the record i did not say that america had no culture, what i said and stand by is that if you were to take two states and swap half of there people/ area you would not have as big a cultural difference as if you took Britain and France(or other European countries) and swapped them.
i'll admit to being ignorant on the vast majority of all the states local history, and i don't deny that each state will have its own identity but to say that the difference between a New York resident and a Washington DC resident is more varied than a Londoner and a Berlin resident is silly to me.
@OP: nice to see a discussion on this i'm enjoying the examples of the difference in US culture appearing
Edit: rereading the OP can i point out i did not at any point say the United states had only one culture but instead had one that was not as markedly diverse as Europe does
On reflection, I really think the OP's post is pointless. Of course countries have regional differences. Heck, any collection of people are going to have 'cultural differences' - just look at schools, universities or inside a workplace; let alone within a city or a state or a country. The only real way to make sense of the OP's post is to compare the degree of cultural variation within the US to other countries. And yes, i don't think anyone can reasonably disagree that there is less cultural variation in the US than in Europe.
Actually, "reason" in this instance would predicate a refusal to make a judgement as cursory as that; given that you almost certainly do not have enough experience with either locale, making a judgement such as this can only be called hasty. Furthermore, any sort of cultural variation comparison is going to run into enormous problems when it comes to clarifying terms and precisely how we measure "culture". Music, art, theatre, language, civics, architecture, food scene, religion, sports, parks/natural features, roadway design, bar scene/drinking culture, university/student culture, ethnic neighborhoods, suburban design, public transportation, fashion, age demographics, the list goes on. All of these are variables with variable value in the eyes of the beholder, making any sort of objective declarations rather silly. Unless one puts an inordinate amount of importance on language, justifying the claim that Europe is more diverse than the US will be supremely difficult.
I was born in Connecticut, and was raised and went to college in the Great Swing State, Ohio. To throw out some of Ohio's cultural aspects: FOOTBALL, egg farms, flat land, auto industry, dum dum lollipops, Polish, Irish, and German centric ethnicities, LeBron, more presidents than any other state, more men in space than any other state, and I could most certainly go on.
Well, I'm not going to hold myself out as being a specialist in American and European anthropology, but I will say that I have spent time in both places. I don't know how one would measure 'culture', but unless you and I have vastly differing notions of the word (and judging by your list, we don't), you'd have to be pretty insular and parochial to disagree with the rather innocuous claim that European cultures differ between themselves far more than US states.
Having lived in a number of states in my life, they all definitely have been different. And in most cases, cities are different than other cities within a state.
Spokane, in eastern Washington is entirely different than Seattle in western Washington. Houston is entirely different than Dallas or Austin. Wyoming is more cowboy than anything I have seen in Texas. And from what I remember, New Mexico is different than them as well in its own ways.
Culture, slang, even the way we talk is different wherever you go.
Sure, there are different cultures in each state, but you can't make any comparison to a region like the EU. Relatively speaking, the US is really lacking in culture because it's a "new" country. That's not necessarily a terrible thing, and I plan on moving permanently to California in 1-2 years anyway : )
Sweden only has 9 million people (less than population of Los Angeles), and there are lots of different cultures and so many different dialects, so it's almost kind of a pointless discussion IMO
so yes i am the one the OP was talking about and i dislike the retarded comment .
for the record i did not say that america had no culture, what i said and stand by is that if you were to take two states and swap half of there people/ area you would not have as big a cultural difference as if you took Britain and France(or other European countries) and swapped them.
i'll admit to being ignorant on the vast majority of all the states local history, and i don't deny that each state will have its own identity but to say that the difference between a New York resident and a Washington DC resident is more varied than a Londoner and a Berlin resident is silly to me.
@OP: nice to see a discussion on this i'm enjoying the examples of the difference in US culture appearing
Edit: rereading the OP can i point out i did not at any point say the United states had only one culture but instead had one that was not as markedly diverse as Europe does
On reflection, I really think the OP's post is pointless. Of course countries have regional differences. Heck, any collection of people are going to have 'cultural differences' - just look at schools, universities or inside a workplace; let alone within a city or a state or a country. The only real way to make sense of the OP's post is to compare the degree of cultural variation within the US to other countries. And yes, i don't think anyone can reasonably disagree that there is less cultural variation in the US than in Europe.
Actually, "reason" in this instance would predicate a refusal to make a judgement as cursory as that; given that you almost certainly do not have enough experience with either locale, making a judgement such as this can only be called hasty. Furthermore, any sort of cultural variation comparison is going to run into enormous problems when it comes to clarifying terms and precisely how we measure "culture". Music, art, theatre, language, civics, architecture, food scene, religion, sports, parks/natural features, roadway design, bar scene/drinking culture, university/student culture, ethnic neighborhoods, suburban design, public transportation, fashion, age demographics, the list goes on. All of these are variables with variable value in the eyes of the beholder, making any sort of objective declarations rather silly. Unless one puts an inordinate amount of importance on language, justifying the claim that Europe is more diverse than the US will be supremely difficult.
I was born in Connecticut, and was raised and went to college in the Great Swing State, Ohio. To throw out some of Ohio's cultural aspects: FOOTBALL, egg farms, flat land, auto industry, dum dum lollipops, Polish, Irish, and German centric ethnicities, LeBron, more presidents than any other state, more men in space than any other state, and I could most certainly go on.
Well, I'm not going to hold myself out as being a specialist in American and European anthropology, but I will say that I have spent time in both places. I don't know how one would measure 'culture', but unless you and I have vastly differing notions of the word (and judging by your list, we don't), you'd have to be pretty insular and parochial to disagree with the rather innocuous claim that European cultures differ between themselves far more than US states.
It is neither insular nor parochial to suggest that making objective claims insofar as comparing cultural variation among European nations and US states is, in fact, insular and parochial.
Living in Florida is a whole entirely different thing then living in say Michigan from my experiences. Just how you generally eat, speak, do stuff is not quite the same.
Easiest example is peoples uses of words like Soda vs Pop. However if you want something a tad more sophisticated the style of music sub genre's change all over due to location(Detroit Jazz vs New Orleans Jazz) *shrug* I suppose unless you really went looking you'd not notice too many of these things but if you live in these places it just seems common knowledge.
I live in Memphis, TN. I can drive a couple hours and end up in Union City, TN. Completely different worlds. Hell, I can drive a few blocks and be in the middle of Orange Mound. But I wouldn't. The culture there is too vibrant and diverse, and I might get robbed.
The only way to think that there isn't massive variation in "culture" (however you want to define it) in the U.S. is to not pay attention.
so yes i am the one the OP was talking about and i dislike the retarded comment .
for the record i did not say that america had no culture, what i said and stand by is that if you were to take two states and swap half of there people/ area you would not have as big a cultural difference as if you took Britain and France(or other European countries) and swapped them.
i'll admit to being ignorant on the vast majority of all the states local history, and i don't deny that each state will have its own identity but to say that the difference between a New York resident and a Washington DC resident is more varied than a Londoner and a Berlin resident is silly to me.
@OP: nice to see a discussion on this i'm enjoying the examples of the difference in US culture appearing
Edit: rereading the OP can i point out i did not at any point say the United states had only one culture but instead had one that was not as markedly diverse as Europe does
On reflection, I really think the OP's post is pointless. Of course countries have regional differences. Heck, any collection of people are going to have 'cultural differences' - just look at schools, universities or inside a workplace; let alone within a city or a state or a country. The only real way to make sense of the OP's post is to compare the degree of cultural variation within the US to other countries. And yes, i don't think anyone can reasonably disagree that there is less cultural variation in the US than in Europe.
Actually, "reason" in this instance would predicate a refusal to make a judgement as cursory as that; given that you almost certainly do not have enough experience with either locale, making a judgement such as this can only be called hasty. Furthermore, any sort of cultural variation comparison is going to run into enormous problems when it comes to clarifying terms and precisely how we measure "culture". Music, art, theatre, language, civics, architecture, food scene, religion, sports, parks/natural features, roadway design, bar scene/drinking culture, university/student culture, ethnic neighborhoods, suburban design, public transportation, fashion, age demographics, the list goes on. All of these are variables with variable value in the eyes of the beholder, making any sort of objective declarations rather silly. Unless one puts an inordinate amount of importance on language, justifying the claim that Europe is more diverse than the US will be supremely difficult.
I was born in Connecticut, and was raised and went to college in the Great Swing State, Ohio. To throw out some of Ohio's cultural aspects: FOOTBALL, egg farms, flat land, auto industry, dum dum lollipops, Polish, Irish, and German centric ethnicities, LeBron, more presidents than any other state, more men in space than any other state, and I could most certainly go on.
Well, I'm not going to hold myself out as being a specialist in American and European anthropology, but I will say that I have spent time in both places. I don't know how one would measure 'culture', but unless you and I have vastly differing notions of the word (and judging by your list, we don't), you'd have to be pretty insular and parochial to disagree with the rather innocuous claim that European cultures differ between themselves far more than US states.
It is neither insular nor parochial to suggest that making objective claims insofar as comparing cultural variation among European nations and US states is, in fact, insular and parochial.
But why stop there? Do you, in your heart, honestly feel that you cannot say anything about the cultural variation between German states compared to US states? Or German cities and US states? Or neighbouring Bavarian villages and US states? Just because you cannot find a completely objective metric doesn't mean you cannot make relative true statements or have a general consensus (even about ill defined words like cultural diversity). That being said how exactly did you reach the conclusion that taking language as one of the most important features of culture is inordinate? A random Swede can literally not understand a big part of Spanish cultural products, that sounds like it should be a big deal (given that everything else is immeasurable and ill defined).
Not that the cultural diversity penis swinging contest is all that interesting. As far as I'm concerned the cultural coordinates in the US and the EU are almost the same and people tend to overemphasize differences for building their identities (e.g. an asshole from your home state is an asshole, but an asshole from New York is a New York asshole). However, I do think that the cultural identity of being American is a lot stronger than that of being an EU citizen and although I have no objective way to measure this statement I would believe it is not contentious. Actually, I would assume that the identity of being a citizen of any given EU country is stronger than that of living in any US state (well perhaps excluding Texas from what I read here ^^).
On May 04 2013 03:06 HULKAMANIA wrote: I live in Memphis, TN. I can drive a couple hours and end up in Union City, TN. Completely different worlds. Hell, I can drive a few blocks and be in the middle of Orange Mound. But I wouldn't. The culture there is too vibrant and diverse, and I might get robbed.
The only way to think that there isn't massive variation in "culture" (however you want to define it) in the U.S. is to not pay attention.
Memphis is one of my favorite cities in the country. Excellent music scene (I'm a sucker for Three Six Mafia ), awesome food, and the people seem so friendly. I have a strange sort of fascination with urban decay though.
so yes i am the one the OP was talking about and i dislike the retarded comment .
for the record i did not say that america had no culture, what i said and stand by is that if you were to take two states and swap half of there people/ area you would not have as big a cultural difference as if you took Britain and France(or other European countries) and swapped them.
i'll admit to being ignorant on the vast majority of all the states local history, and i don't deny that each state will have its own identity but to say that the difference between a New York resident and a Washington DC resident is more varied than a Londoner and a Berlin resident is silly to me.
@OP: nice to see a discussion on this i'm enjoying the examples of the difference in US culture appearing
Edit: rereading the OP can i point out i did not at any point say the United states had only one culture but instead had one that was not as markedly diverse as Europe does
On reflection, I really think the OP's post is pointless. Of course countries have regional differences. Heck, any collection of people are going to have 'cultural differences' - just look at schools, universities or inside a workplace; let alone within a city or a state or a country. The only real way to make sense of the OP's post is to compare the degree of cultural variation within the US to other countries. And yes, i don't think anyone can reasonably disagree that there is less cultural variation in the US than in Europe.
Actually, "reason" in this instance would predicate a refusal to make a judgement as cursory as that; given that you almost certainly do not have enough experience with either locale, making a judgement such as this can only be called hasty. Furthermore, any sort of cultural variation comparison is going to run into enormous problems when it comes to clarifying terms and precisely how we measure "culture". Music, art, theatre, language, civics, architecture, food scene, religion, sports, parks/natural features, roadway design, bar scene/drinking culture, university/student culture, ethnic neighborhoods, suburban design, public transportation, fashion, age demographics, the list goes on. All of these are variables with variable value in the eyes of the beholder, making any sort of objective declarations rather silly. Unless one puts an inordinate amount of importance on language, justifying the claim that Europe is more diverse than the US will be supremely difficult.
I was born in Connecticut, and was raised and went to college in the Great Swing State, Ohio. To throw out some of Ohio's cultural aspects: FOOTBALL, egg farms, flat land, auto industry, dum dum lollipops, Polish, Irish, and German centric ethnicities, LeBron, more presidents than any other state, more men in space than any other state, and I could most certainly go on.
Well, I'm not going to hold myself out as being a specialist in American and European anthropology, but I will say that I have spent time in both places. I don't know how one would measure 'culture', but unless you and I have vastly differing notions of the word (and judging by your list, we don't), you'd have to be pretty insular and parochial to disagree with the rather innocuous claim that European cultures differ between themselves far more than US states.
It is neither insular nor parochial to suggest that making objective claims insofar as comparing cultural variation among European nations and US states is, in fact, insular and parochial.
But why stop there? Do you, in your heart, honestly feel that you cannot say anything about the cultural variation between German states compared to US states? Or German cities and US states? Or neighbouring Bavarian villages and US states? Just because you cannot find a completely objective metric doesn't mean you cannot make relative true statements or have a general consensus (even about ill defined words like cultural diversity). That being said how exactly did you reach the conclusion that taking language as one of the most important features of culture is inordinate? A random Swede can literally not understand a big part of Spanish cultural products, that sounds like it should be a big deal (given that everything else is immeasurable and ill defined).
Not that the cultural diversity penis swinging contest is all that interesting. As far as I'm concerned the cultural coordinates in the US and the EU are almost the same and people tend to overemphasize differences for building their identities (e.g. an asshole from your home state is an asshole, but an asshole from New York is a New York asshole). However, I do think that the cultural identity of being American is a lot stronger than that of being an EU citizen and although I have no objective way to measure this statement I would believe it is not contentious. Actually, I would assume that the identity of being a citizen of any given EU country is stronger than that of living in any US state (well perhaps excluding Texas from what I read here ^^).
I think approaching the issue from the perspective of identity is far more useful, as it avoids the cultural diversity penis measuring contest that we both clearly consider silly. My point in bringing up the variable gravity of language differences deals in how deceiving having a shared language can be in terms of cultural commonality. I would argue that the differences in cultural perspective between a Swede and a Spainiard and those between a Californian and a Virginian are far more equitable than one might think.
On May 03 2013 22:48 TheFish7 wrote: I have a perfect example. I work at a big corporation that has employees all over the country and I'm based out of Connecticut. The other day we had a conference call with some of our employees in West Virginia. One of the Virginians greeted my boss with a "Howdy, Ma'am!". This was a big mistake because my boss was very offended at being called "Ma'am". In West Virginia, this is a sign of respect but in Connecticut calling someone Ma'am is considered condescending, or implying that she is an old lady. .
I recognize an American when I see (or hear) one so... I would say they certainly have identifiable traits. Whether that amounts to culture is a matter of semantics.
On May 03 2013 22:48 TheFish7 wrote: I have a perfect example. I work at a big corporation that has employees all over the country and I'm based out of Connecticut. The other day we had a conference call with some of our employees in West Virginia. One of the Virginians greeted my boss with a "Howdy, Ma'am!". This was a big mistake because my boss was very offended at being called "Ma'am". In West Virginia, this is a sign of respect but in Connecticut calling someone Ma'am is considered condescending, or implying that she is an old lady. .
holy shit. I never knew Ma'am could be offensive.
It's a French legacy: Mademoiselle - unmarried (≈ young) woman, Madame - married (≈ old) woman
The opposite is sometimes true as well: there are some strange elderly women who want to be called Mademoiselle, purely since they are unmarried.
It is interesting to read what people from other places around the world think about the diverse sets of found between and even within the 50 states
Having lived in multiple states now, I can say confidently that many states, if not all, have their own unique cultural identities. Some more distinctive than others, some with more subcultures than others.
It's not absurd to think people in different states have different cultures, especially considering culture is kind of a catch-all term.
A better question is: do the states in the US carry a national identity? Or, in practical terms, if the US's federalism began going to hell, would certain states seriously consider secession? Which ones?
Edit: In Brazil, for example, the people of southern state of Rio Grande do Sul usually demonstrate more state pride than people from other states. Is it valid to say that about, for example, people from Texas?
On May 04 2013 03:11 Skullflower wrote: The only thing you need to know is that California is by far the best state in the US
Been in LA for a year and I would kill for my job to move back to Washington state.
That's what makes California fantastic. If you hate LA, you may very well find that you love another part. San Diego. Perhaps somewhere quiet up north. Somewhere exciting and the the middle, like the Bay Area. Relatively high taxes and tumultuous politics are an issue statewide -- in some areas more than in others -- but that aside there is a great diversity here in which almost anyone might find a place they feel comfortable calling home
On May 03 2013 19:53 Nothingtosay wrote: People who have never lived in the US or at least visited multiple states will probably be astoundingly ignorant of the differences in our nation.
I've been to the US a couple of times, in different states, and I'd say Hollywood prepared me pretty well for the cultural differences. It is very noticeable, but not extreme. If you're talking about ignorance, try being a swede (I don't identify as a European) talking to someone from the States. Any state. 80% of you think of Europe as some sort of homogenous country, and that's being generous. Ask yourself, how often have you heard someone say "European accent" or something equally absurd? I'm probably equally ignorant about other parts of the world though..
I don't think I've ever met anyone who thinks Europe is homogeneous in anyway other than political ideology. A lot of people think Europe is some socialist hell, but politics isn't culture. For instance, we have pride parades for people of varying descents in Louisiana, how the hell could we think Europe is the same if we celebrate our unique European heritages from various places like Italy, France, Germany, etc.
On May 04 2013 03:10 farvacola wrote: I think approaching the issue from the perspective of identity is far more useful, as it avoids the cultural diversity penis measuring contest that we both clearly consider silly. My point in bringing up the variable gravity of language differences deals in how deceiving having a shared language can be in terms of cultural commonality. I would argue that the differences in cultural perspective between a Swede and a Spainiard and those between a Californian and a Virginian are far more equitable than one might think.
Fair enough (actually after finishing the second part of my post I was about to delete the first part but then the post wouldn't have been an answer to yours and so on and so on). Where I'm coming from concerning language boils down to the question of how important popular culture is in the grant scheme. Two random Americans will probably have a greater set of shared elements of popular culture (TV shows, music etc.) than a random Spaniard and a Swede and what the latter share is probably American (leading to the paradox situation where the Swede and the American likely have more common popculture than Swede and Spaniard). I do agree that we shouldn't overvalue this observation but can we really conclude that popculture is not all that important in forming the cultural perspective? (serious question, I haven't completely formed my opinion but I'm posting slow enough as it is)
Btw when I'm talking about cultural differences what I'm mostly interested in are abstract things like ambitions, aspirations, dreams etc. What constitutes a successful life for someone? Unfortunately I don't even know enough about Germans to comment on these points.
One of the more interesting cultural features that is relatively well quantifiable is how we deal with time. On this topic I recommend A Geography of Time by Robert Levine (not the most comprehensive book in the world but a good primer).
People are misunderstanding alot in this thread. Ofc each city is different from one another, each states is different but it's nowhere near comparable to what happens in Europe.
In Europe each country has a really really strong identity because they are rly old and have been going at war since their creation. In every country of Europe you have dozens of local and old languages (that are dying). Every country of Europe has it's own food and it's own variation for each region.
Now with the globalisation and the expansion of liberalism since the XXth sigle, a global model has grown and is still growing. There are malls and cities grow in length instead of height in Europe but even then it's not like that in all of the countries.
Now in the US, the food is essentially the same for everybody with steak, sandwiches, raw vegetables, fries and other awful shit. While near the coast, you can have fresh fish. The language is English for everybody. Same educationnal system or at least viability of diplomas in every states etc... The only big differencies of culture, I've seen in the US are because of the mexicans / former mexicans coming with their own culture but still they are everywhere in the country and they tend to adopt the global american culture.
On May 04 2013 05:12 Acertos wrote: People are misunderstanding alot in this thread. Ofc each city is different from one another, each states is different but it's nowhere near comparable to what happens in Europe.
In Europe each country has a really really strong identity because they are rly old and have been going at war since their creation. In every country of Europe you have dozens of local and old languages (that are dying). Every country of Europe has it's own food and it's own variation for each region.
Now with the globalisation and the expansion of liberalism since the XXth sigle, a global model has grown and is still growing. There are malls and cities grow in length instead of height in Europe but even then it's not like that in all of the countries.
Now in the US, the food is essentially the same for everybody with steak, sandwiches, raw vegetables, fries and other awful shit. While near the coast, you can have fresh fish. The language is English for everybody. Same educationnal system or at least viability of diplomas in every states etc... The only big differencies of culture, I've seen in the US are because of the mexicans / former mexicans coming with their own culture but still they are everywhere in the country and they tend to adopt the global american culture.
Think about what you're saying, Einstein. If Europe has longstanding, diverse cultures, America has longstanding diverse cultures. What? Do you think we all came from the same spot in Europe? Do you think we magically homogenized upon arrival?
On May 04 2013 05:12 Acertos wrote: People are misunderstanding alot in this thread. Ofc each city is different from one another, each states is different but it's nowhere near comparable to what happens in Europe.
In Europe each country has a really really strong identity because they are rly old and have been going at war since their creation. In every country of Europe you have dozens of local and old languages (that are dying). Every country of Europe has it's own food and it's own variation for each region.
Now with the globalisation and the expansion of liberalism since the XXth sigle, a global model has grown and is still growing. There are malls and cities grow in length instead of height in Europe but even then it's not like that in all of the countries.
Now in the US, the food is essentially the same for everybody with steak, sandwiches, raw vegetables, fries and other awful shit. While near the coast, you can have fresh fish. The language is English for everybody. Same educationnal system or at least viability of diplomas in every states etc... The only big differencies of culture, I've seen in the US are because of the mexicans / former mexicans coming with their own culture but still they are everywhere in the country and they tend to adopt the global american culture.
Think about what you're saying, Einstein. If Europe has longstanding, diverse cultures, America has longstanding diverse cultures. What? Do you think we all came from the same spot in Europe? Do you think we magically homogenized upon arrival?
Well yes in 500 hundred the american society homogenized so much it became a model for the world. If the US citizens had not really homogenized it would be different countries like Canada and the US.
In the case of the states every culture was basically mixed together because a model was well thought and put in place everywhere and that is much less the case in Europe.
On May 04 2013 05:35 DannyJ wrote: Maybe I've missed some posts, but why are Europeans comparing it to Europe in the first place, as if that was somehow what the OP was about?
Because "different culture" is controversial. For some each state in the US has it's own culture (I think that personally), for others there is not enough of a difference so Europeans countries are taken as examples.
But, the difference between two American states is not nearly as large as the difference between America (as a whole) and any European country. Also, like Micronesia said earlier, culture is not that bound by states. General regions separate the culture more than state boundaries.
I can definitely confirm though, having lived in Texas, California, and Virginia, that every state has its own culture. Texas and California are pretty different.
Also, the best state in the United States is Maine. It is very peaceful there. Just fyi. It's not California and it's definitely not Texas ^_^.
On May 04 2013 05:12 Acertos wrote: People are misunderstanding alot in this thread. Ofc each city is different from one another, each states is different but it's nowhere near comparable to what happens in Europe.
In Europe each country has a really really strong identity because they are rly old and have been going at war since their creation. In every country of Europe you have dozens of local and old languages (that are dying). Every country of Europe has it's own food and it's own variation for each region.
Now with the globalisation and the expansion of liberalism since the XXth sigle, a global model has grown and is still growing. There are malls and cities grow in length instead of height in Europe but even then it's not like that in all of the countries.
Now in the US, the food is essentially the same for everybody with steak, sandwiches, raw vegetables, fries and other awful shit. While near the coast, you can have fresh fish. The language is English for everybody. Same educationnal system or at least viability of diplomas in every states etc... The only big differencies of culture, I've seen in the US are because of the mexicans / former mexicans coming with their own culture but still they are everywhere in the country and they tend to adopt the global american culture.
Think about what you're saying, Einstein. If Europe has longstanding, diverse cultures, America has longstanding diverse cultures. What? Do you think we all came from the same spot in Europe? Do you think we magically homogenized upon arrival?
Do me a favor ok, imagine each country of europe is a different colour, Britain could be red and Germany yellow and france blue, though each country is different they may be a mixture of colours.
now realise that because as your saying not everyone in america is from the same place, you have little splashes of colour all over the place that over the last few hundred years have gradually merged together. as a result you are many different colours but all tending towards brown, however you want to put it purplely brown and dark chocolate brown are much less diffrent than red and yellow
On May 04 2013 05:35 DannyJ wrote: Maybe I've missed some posts, but why are Europeans comparing it to Europe in the first place, as if that was somehow what the OP was about?
Agreed. It's just an opportunity for some europeans here on TL to flame the US whenever they get the chance.
I think most Americans identify themselves as "americans" through common american themes and cultural identities (football, baseball, thanksgiving, constitution, american-style liberty, american dream ideals, etc. and then identify with their own state subcultures at the same time.
Also, I think it is important to understand that states have varying levels of state "patriotism" or loyalty. For example, people in my state aren't huge about state pride, while there are big ones like texas where people are very outspoken about being proud of their state.
On May 04 2013 05:35 DannyJ wrote: Maybe I've missed some posts, but why are Europeans comparing it to Europe in the first place, as if that was somehow what the OP was about?
Because "different culture" is controversial. For some each state in the US has it's own culture (I think that personally), for others there is not enough of a difference so Europeans countries are taken as examples.
Next time someone mentions Europe is culturally diverse I'll make sure to go out of my way and mention the conitnents are far more culturally diverse, as if people needed to hear that .
Well... here in South Carolina we like to drink sweet tea, plant palmetto trees, act classy, and go mudding. We also are the most forgiving people in the US by nominating our old Argentina vacation loving governor as Republican candidate for one of our currently vacant house seat.
On May 04 2013 05:12 Acertos wrote: Now in the US, the food is essentially the same for everybody with steak, sandwiches, raw vegetables, fries and other awful shit. While near the coast, you can have fresh fish.
I never understood why you French folks want to ruin perfectly good vegetables by cooking them.
On May 04 2013 03:11 Skullflower wrote: The only thing you need to know is that California is by far the best state in the US
Nooo! All my friends who have moved to Cali have never come back! Stop stealing them away from me!
On May 04 2013 05:35 DannyJ wrote: Maybe I've missed some posts, but why are Europeans comparing it to Europe in the first place, as if that was somehow what the OP was about?
It's about an argument with a briton so obviously it's a comparison to europe.
If you travel through America you'll immediately learn that different parts of the nation have varying cultures. Sometimes to a point where it's shocking. Even in Canada if you compare the culture on the East to the West or the central Prairie provinces to the North, it's all quite different. America is more diverse than Canada, from my own personal experiences as an American living in Canada.
On May 04 2013 05:35 DannyJ wrote: Maybe I've missed some posts, but why are Europeans comparing it to Europe in the first place, as if that was somehow what the OP was about?
It's about an argument with a briton so obviously it's a comparison to europe.
I think it's more about how Briton's take pride in their regional differences (Northerners, Welsh, ect), which are definitely more pronounced than American regional differences.
But it's pretty clear reading some responses here that people have *never * been to the US or more than one place in the US; because regional differences definitely exist in the US (gun culture, accents, diet vary quite different across the country for one). Although, I'm not sure I'd put it as finely as on a state-by-state level.
On May 04 2013 05:35 DannyJ wrote: Maybe I've missed some posts, but why are Europeans comparing it to Europe in the first place, as if that was somehow what the OP was about?
someone said that the cultural differences between state/regions are as big as going from england to france which still is bullshit.
I would argue that it isn't along a state line that there are cultural differences, but more that there are regions that do. Some regions as small a specific section of NYC others as large as the SE US.
On May 04 2013 05:12 Acertos wrote: People are misunderstanding alot in this thread. Ofc each city is different from one another, each states is different but it's nowhere near comparable to what happens in Europe.
In Europe each country has a really really strong identity because they are rly old and have been going at war since their creation. In every country of Europe you have dozens of local and old languages (that are dying). Every country of Europe has it's own food and it's own variation for each region.
Now with the globalisation and the expansion of liberalism since the XXth sigle, a global model has grown and is still growing. There are malls and cities grow in length instead of height in Europe but even then it's not like that in all of the countries.
Now in the US, the food is essentially the same for everybody with steak, sandwiches, raw vegetables, fries and other awful shit. While near the coast, you can have fresh fish. The language is English for everybody. Same educationnal system or at least viability of diplomas in every states etc... The only big differencies of culture, I've seen in the US are because of the mexicans / former mexicans coming with their own culture but still they are everywhere in the country and they tend to adopt the global american culture.
I can tell from this single paragraph that you actually haven't seen any of the US. East Coast cheesesteaks are NOT the same as West Coast cheesesteaks. Basically the only kind of meat eaten in the midwest is beef, while on the coasts it's a whole lot of seafood. Corn from Illinois is like none other in the world. Texas cuisine, like the rest of Texas, is big. BBQs vary stylistically from region to region. Damn I'm not even that patriotic but when you lump all US food into one big lump you clearly haven't seen anything.
How can you say food in the US sucks when all you list are the fast food shit? That's like me saying all the French are raging alcoholics because all they drink is wine. While I will admit some dishes are homogeneous throughout the US like pizza and cheeseburgers, the same is true for France, isn't it?
Some parts of the US are most definately different from others, but I'd not say it's state to state, but area to area. There's different cultures INSIDE a state, hell even city, just as there's serveral states that could more or less be grouped up as one.
I can say that there are definitely cultural differences between states and regions within states.
This is especially true in lower population density regions where the ethnicity and migrant background have a lot of influence on daily life. For example I am english/german, but I grew up in a largely Norwegian region of the state. The religious affiliations, foods, and recreation was definitely affected by this. Not to mention the sport of choice is hockey. This is only the case in 1 or 2 small areas in the country.
This leads into the second point. It's not just the nationalities etc. of the people that live in an area that determine "culture". It's the geography. Cultural differences may not be noticeable along state lines, but they definitely are noticeable between different geographical regions. There can be many regions within a state (examples might be Minnesota, Arizona etc) or there may be many states within a region (north/south dakota, most of montana, etc)
just like there are different cultures in different parts of european countries too. every country has its own share of regionalism and regions that really differ from the mainstream culture of the country. i can't really see why this would have been different in the US.
Erg.... What kind of nonsense is this? Of course states have their own personalities...
Meet rural people from each state and tell me they are culturally the same. Go to Los Angelos, Seattle, Milwalkee, Austin, New York, Orlando, Nashville, etc, and tell me that they have the same culture/personality.
This can't even be a serious question. They are so completely totally different.
This question is like saying Seoul, Beijing and Tokyo have the same culture. No.......
I think only a handful of states have state wide culture of some sort limited only to that particular state. There is of course region, city and neighborhood cultures but specific state only cultures is more rare.
There are definitely distinguishable cultural identities in the United States. You could point them out between states or regions, but you could also just go to some of the most populated areas of the country. New York and the Bay Area are highly populated with mixes of many differently cultured persons, akin to what you might experience in a place like London.
Pointing to our political system being two party isn't very useful, either. That's not a product of the people but a product of the system. We use first-past-the-post voting at the local, state and national level, which engenders (even enforces) a two-party political system.
On May 04 2013 14:43 Mohdoo wrote: Compare Portland, OR to the bible belt and tell me there are no differences lol
Represent!
Each state has different Laws which lead to a number of little quirks that separate us. Then you add on that really every state will have different %'s of minorities of different types (ie Cubans in Florida, Chinese on the West Coast) so each states culture becomes partially defined by the cultural backgrounds of the people making up the state. The time zones break up our cultures as well, west coast sports teams play later in the day than east coast teams and will always get more coverage because tbh people on the east coast are sleeping while people on the west are sitting down to watch news, sports, tv.
Its such a complicated issue to discuss really, I only scratched the surface but listed a few topics people could discuss for days. Most states are the size of countries and act like countries because logistically it just makes more sense for them to act that way. Music, food, sports, language, manners, personalities are all kind of guided by where you grew up. Yes people choose to broaden their horizons but someone who grew up in Oregon is going to probably be vastly different from someone who grew up in New Jersey (once you travel a bit you start to normalize a little but you still have a lot of regionalism).
Someone who grew up in New York City and was crammed into a tiny area with 10 million people is going to have a different way of socializing than someone who grew up in Buttfuck Montana. If I (an Oregonian) go to Alabama and go to the store to buy "pop" I will get strange looks when I ask "where is the pop?", "Oh you mean Soda?" or "Oh you mean Coke". You could write books and books on this kind of thing and not get anywhere. To put it in the simplest terms I can think of.
Each state is an amalgamation of the cultures that already exist there and the flow of new culture trying to make its way there. Its moving all the time and the Border States see the most rapid changes because they have the most influx of new culture (generally speaking, not a rule). Its complicated because you are not talking about one issue, your trying to lump a dozen topics into one discussion.
this is not exactly unique to america. Every country is the same. Take China for example. A person from Shanghai is going to be very different and much more western then a person from Beijing. The 2 might not even speak the same language(shanghai has its own dialect called wu, which is different from mandarin and canto). Even w/in shanghai, there is a strong cultural divide between the peoples of Pu Shi and Pu Dong(east/west of the Pu river, Pu Dong is the more westernized part while Pu Shi is more rural/suburban). Regionalism is the same wherever you go. I'm sure a person from quebec canada is gonna have a completely different culture then some1 from BC.
State differences are definitely not as big as between European countries for instance, I'd even argue that they have more in common with eachother then many provinces within european countries, the Basques in Spain, the Niceans in France, the Frysians in the Netherlands.
The differences between American states do as far as I'm concerned qualify as different cultures (or at least different branches of a culture) but only barely so, and television is slowly trying to homogenize it all, so I'm not too sure if there will be more then a couple cultures in the US in a couple generations.
I've lived in Michigan for half my life and Tennessee for the other half. Both very different culturally, especially the people. Hell, even the way people drive. I find that people in Michigan are much more aggressive(not dangerous) drivers, and have the "get shit done" attitude, generally everyone is walking fast too. Total opposite in the south.
The US holds plenty of different cultures. Not just across ethnicity, but states. It's why we say there's a 'Boston' accent or a 'Brooklyn accent'. People on the East Coast call food dumplings while on the west coast they're pot stickers.
I like to think of the States as a collection of smaller 'countries' with a little bit of unity between them via patriotism and government. But we all definitely have our differences good and bad. That's why people enjoy taking road trips across the US in the first place! The best part of it all is usually food if you look in the right places.
According to the dictionary it's not very hard to qualify as a culture, appearantly you could argue that Starcraft enthousiasts have their own culture, or even those who play an obscure arcade are their own little culture
cul·ture (klchr) n. 1. a. The totality of socially transmitted behavior patterns, arts, beliefs, institutions, and all other products of human work and thought. b. These patterns, traits, and products considered as the expression of a particular period, class, community, or population: Edwardian culture; Japanese culture; the culture of poverty. c. These patterns, traits, and products considered with respect to a particular category, such as a field, subject, or mode of expression: religious culture in the Middle Ages; musical culture; oral culture. d. The predominating attitudes and behavior that characterize the functioning of a group or organization. 2. Intellectual and artistic activity and the works produced by it. ...
/thread I guess.
That being said, the US has an extremely young culture compared to most of the world, and therefore they are much more homogenous then for instance middle eastern, south-east asian or european cultures, I believe this was more the point the OP's discussion partner was aiming towards.
Any who doubts the massive cultural variation that takes place across the US just needs to road trip. You're talking out of your ass. I mean in my mind, every German in the world is a serious businessperson who lives on a diet of sauerkraut, and every Chinese person eats nothing but rice all day and works as a farmer.
But at least I know that my crude understanding of these places stems from a lack of familiarity, rather than some internet-informed, cosmopolitan savior faire.
On May 05 2013 01:23 HULKAMANIA wrote: Any who doubts the massive cultural variation that takes place across the US just needs to road trip. You're talking out of your ass. I mean in my mind, every German in the world is a serious businessperson who lives on a diet of sauerkraut, and every Chinese person eats nothing but rice all day and works as a farmer.
But at least I know that my crude understanding of these places stems from a lack of familiarity, rather than some internet-informed, cosmopolitan savior faire.
Hmmmm, yeah, in my country, that's smaller then any American state, we have multiple indigenous languages, for post indian holocaust Americans the best you can say is that they have varying indigenous accents, stuff like that tends to happen when culture's have gotten more then about 200 years to develop, and great parts of American culture are shared with the entire country, the mass consumerist attitude, the homogenous suburbs, if you you think an accent, some eating habits and some climate adaption constitute a change in culture even close to that between european countries or chinese provinces, you clearly have a lot of learning to do.
On May 05 2013 01:23 HULKAMANIA wrote: Any who doubts the massive cultural variation that takes place across the US just needs to road trip. You're talking out of your ass. I mean in my mind, every German in the world is a serious businessperson who lives on a diet of sauerkraut, and every Chinese person eats nothing but rice all day and works as a farmer.
But at least I know that my crude understanding of these places stems from a lack of familiarity, rather than some internet-informed, cosmopolitan savior faire.
Hmmmm, yeah, in my country, that's smaller then any American state, we have multiple indigenous languages, for post indian holocaust Americans the best you can say is that they have varying indigenous accents, stuff like that tends to happen when culture's have gotten more then about 200 years to develop, and great parts of American culture are shared with the entire country, the mass consumerist attitude, the homogenous suburbs, if you you think an accent, some eating habits and some climate adaption constitute a change in culture even close to that between european countries or chinese provinces, you clearly have a lot of learning to do.
I think you're the one who has some learning to do... about America.
Thats why its great because if your in a decent size city you will find decent restaurants representing a pretty wide variety of food from all over the world that is authentic. We pretty much imported the vast majority of our food culture heh.
On May 05 2013 03:47 Scootaloo wrote: Ofcourse, one liners and irrelevant critiques of grammar, how very... American of you.
Well, considering that it is oh so easy for you to point at our nationality and both attribute pedantic criticisms to it while in the same breath making cursory judgements as to the depth of our culture, I think it's easy to see that you are nothing more than a hater.
On May 05 2013 03:47 Scootaloo wrote: Ofcourse, one liners and irrelevant critiques of grammar, how very... American of you.
Smug one liner stereotyping americans, you're just as bad it seems.
Also, I'd be interested to hear from anyone who actually is well-traveled enough to give an accurate view of the amount to which American culture varies internally. Anyone who's only lived in the US, and even if they can pinpoint the differences between different regions of the US, isn't of much use without some kind of international metric to compare it to. The same goes for people who haven't lived in the US and believe that the US is just northerners vs southereners. Otherwise it seems like just a bunch of hot air being spouted.
On May 05 2013 03:47 Scootaloo wrote: Ofcourse, one liners and irrelevant critiques of grammar, how very... American of you.
Well, considering that it is oh so easy for you to point at our nationality and both attribute pedantic criticisms to it while in the same breath making cursory judgements as to the depth of our culture, I think it's easy to see that you are nothing more than a hater.
Not a hater at all actually, I enjoy an awful lot of your media, but when we're talking about culture's you'd have to be blind not to see the obvious problems here, for gods sake, many people still care more about their pre american cultures, be it Irish, Italian, African, Mexican or whatever then their American, let alone their states culture.
American has a lot of great things, but original culture is not one of them, if you think that makes me a hater, then clearly you're just talking out of some outdated sense of patriotism, not any kind of historical perspective.
On May 05 2013 03:47 Scootaloo wrote: Ofcourse, one liners and irrelevant critiques of grammar, how very... American of you.
Smug one liner stereotyping americans, you're just as bad it seems.
Also, I'd be interested to hear from anyone who actually is well-traveled enough to give an accurate view of the amount to which American culture varies internally. Anyone who's only lived in the US, and even if they can pinpoint the differences between different regions of the US, isn't of much use without some kind of international metric to compare it to. The same goes for people who haven't lived in the US and believe that the US is just northerners vs southereners. Otherwise it seems like just a bunch of hot air being spouted.
I would even argue that a northerner is more similar to a southerner then a Parisian is to a Nicean, a Basque to a Cordoban or a Frysian to a Limburger, you think a civil war is a reason for dividing? How about an entirely different language, tons of wars, completely different heritage and an already clearly distinguished culture?
On May 05 2013 03:47 Scootaloo wrote: Ofcourse, one liners and irrelevant critiques of grammar, how very... American of you.
Well, considering that it is oh so easy for you to point at our nationality and both attribute pedantic criticisms to it while in the same breath making cursory judgements as to the depth of our culture, I think it's easy to see that you are nothing more than a hater.
Not a hater at all actually, I enjoy an awful lot of your media, but when we're talking about culture's you'd have to be blind not to see the obvious problems here, for gods sake, many people still care more about their pre american cultures, be it Irish, Italian, African, Mexican or whatever then their American, let alone their states culture.
American has a lot of great things, but original culture is not one of them, if you think that makes me a hater, then clearly you're just talking out of some outdated sense of patriotism, not any kind of historical perspective.
Again, you clearly have no experience with actual Americans nor with the inherent problems in putting too much weight on ones' own anecdotal perspective when it comes to making judgements as expansive as those of an entire nation or culture. In fact, the notion of an "original culture" is something straight out of a fascist ideology; in order for one to even begin the process of judging such a thing, they must assign a value to a particular mode and operation of cultural expression with which to compare others. This superimposes a hierarchy of values overtop a phenomena that is distinctly without an objective value, and this amounts to cultural-political violence as one argues for their idea of culture in the face of others which may disagree with it.
It's clear you have no respect for American culture, but I'm afraid that such a judgement is more entrenched in discomfort and disregard rather than anything truly objective.
On May 05 2013 03:47 Scootaloo wrote: Ofcourse, one liners and irrelevant critiques of grammar, how very... American of you.
Smug one liner stereotyping americans, you're just as bad it seems.
Also, I'd be interested to hear from anyone who actually is well-traveled enough to give an accurate view of the amount to which American culture varies internally. Anyone who's only lived in the US, and even if they can pinpoint the differences between different regions of the US, isn't of much use without some kind of international metric to compare it to. The same goes for people who haven't lived in the US and believe that the US is just northerners vs southereners. Otherwise it seems like just a bunch of hot air being spouted.
I would even argue that a northerner is more similar to a southerner then a Parisian is to a Nicean, a Basque to a Cordoban or a Frysian to a Limburger, you think a civil war is a reason for dividing? How about an entirely different language, tons of wars, completely different heritage and an already clearly distinguished culture?
I brought up south vs north because it's a very simplistic view of the regional differences in America, so please don't elaborate on it.
Anyways, my point was do you have enough experience in the states to make these comparisons? I don't and I have no problems admitting it, which is why I'm not trying to argue anything in this thread. I'm just curious as to the scope of experience of the people in this thread.
On May 05 2013 03:47 Scootaloo wrote: Ofcourse, one liners and irrelevant critiques of grammar, how very... American of you.
Smug one liner stereotyping americans, you're just as bad it seems.
Also, I'd be interested to hear from anyone who actually is well-traveled enough to give an accurate view of the amount to which American culture varies internally. Anyone who's only lived in the US, and even if they can pinpoint the differences between different regions of the US, isn't of much use without some kind of international metric to compare it to. The same goes for people who haven't lived in the US and believe that the US is just northerners vs southereners. Otherwise it seems like just a bunch of hot air being spouted.
I would even argue that a northerner is more similar to a southerner then a Parisian is to a Nicean, a Basque to a Cordoban or a Frysian to a Limburger, you think a civil war is a reason for dividing? How about an entirely different language, tons of wars, completely different heritage and an already clearly distinguished culture?
I am curious, what is your experience with all of these different cultures? How long did you spend in each of the areas? You are speaking as an expert, so I hope you at least have some experience to back it up?
Duh. It's the information age. You can learn everything there is to know about a place without ever travelling there. He doesn't have to visit some Cajun hovel-village on the bayou to know it's essentially the same as a dairy-farming community in Wisconsin or Chinatown in San Francisco. Because suburbs and American mass media and also history!
My view (American who grew up in Kansas, lives now in Maryland, has been to Europe a few times) - American culture is more homogenous than pan-European culture, certainly, since we all speak the same language and follow mostly the same rules. However, Europeans tend to forget just how goddamn big America is when they talk about "Americans." Is Nebraska much different from Kansas? No, and same can be said for Maryland and New Jersey. But the two pairs are different, and Texas / Oklahoma vary from both of them, as do Washington / Oregon.
Regional cultural variations are most pronounced when it comes to food, acceptable levels of familiarity in personal interactions, dress, and consumer habits.
Consumer habits are most interesting to me, although really they aren't the most important difference [ I just studied econ] . Perhaps because I grew up in Kansas, I like space and a car with a V6 engine. In Maryland people are willing to pay $1500 / month for a little apartment and live without a car, but they must have an iPad and a daily Starbuck's coffee.
i've lived in new york, missouri, washington, california, florida, and georgia. there are CLEAR differences in culture and lifestyle between all of the various regions. i identify much more with the west coast and still feel quite out of place here in NYC.
On May 05 2013 04:48 Kolya504 wrote: Regional cultural variations are most pronounced when it comes to food, acceptable levels of familiarity in personal interactions, dress, and consumer habits.
I think differences in food and dress are relatively minor compared to differences in acceptance of certain religions, political ideologies, etc. There are some places in the USA where a Muslim, Jew, Protestant, or Catholic will fit right in, and some where they will be ostracized (if not worse). There are some places where guns are treated like accessories, and some where you can go years without seeing one unattached a police officer's hip. There are some places with violence, crime, and gangster lifestyle running amuck where half of Americans couldn't survive ten minutes, and places with an apparent ruling class which follows racial/political lines.
@thread: We don't have a Gaza strip and can't compare with the varied communities within Iraq when discussing cultural variation, but its still extremely significant. Try living in one place in the USA, then move to a different place that is considered to be somehow culturally opposite (New York vs Texas for example)... anyone making assumptions about the USA, having not lived in the USA at all (let alone in multiple places) probably is 1% as knowledgeable about actual American culture as they think they are. The way the USA is portrayed in international media is not a good reference at all.
Do U.S. states have their own culture or identity? Yes Are they extremely significant as most in the thread claims? No As someone who has lived in the Texas for ten years, New York for four, I would say the culture is different but not at all as significant as most claim. Yes, people identify themselves as New Yorkers, or Texans, but there's not that much state pride except when it comes to sports really. If one were to ask most people in the US, they would place their culture and identity as an American first rather than their state. However, in China it's almost the direct opposite, as there is almost ubiquitous provincial pride that it borderlines prejudice and discrimination. In fact, if you so much as speak a slightly different accent in China from the one the majority speak in the province, people will treat you differently, usually in the negative way. In fact, one of the first things asked in most conversations between Chinese is what province one's from. In the US, however, this is much less the case.
On May 05 2013 05:28 Gnaix wrote: Do U.S. states have their own culture or identity? Yes Are they extremely significant as most in the thread claims? No As someone who has lived in the Texas for ten years, New York for four, I would say the culture is different but not at all as significant as most claim. Yes, people identify themselves as New Yorkers, or Texans, but there's not that much state pride except when it comes to sports really. If one were to ask most people in the US, they would place their culture and identity as an American first rather than their state. However, in China it's almost the direct opposite, as there is almost ubiquitous provincial pride that it borderlines prejudice and discrimination. In fact, if you so much as speak a slightly different accent in China from the one the majority speak in the province, people will treat you differently, usually in the negative way. In fact, one of the first things asked in most conversations between Chinese is what province one's from. In the US, however, this is much less the case.
So you're willing to judge cultural diversity across all 50 states based on having lived in 2?
On May 05 2013 05:28 Gnaix wrote: Do U.S. states have their own culture or identity? Yes Are they extremely significant as most in the thread claims? No As someone who has lived in the Texas for ten years, New York for four, I would say the culture is different but not at all as significant as most claim. Yes, people identify themselves as New Yorkers, or Texans, but there's not that much state pride except when it comes to sports really. If one were to ask most people in the US, they would place their culture and identity as an American first rather than their state. However, in China it's almost the direct opposite, as there is almost ubiquitous provincial pride that it borderlines prejudice and discrimination. In fact, if you so much as speak a slightly different accent in China from the one the majority speak in the province, people will treat you differently, usually in the negative way. In fact, one of the first things asked in most conversations between Chinese is what province one's from. In the US, however, this is much less the case.
In all likelihood you're a white male younger than 30 who speaks General Northern, and almost never talks politics or religion with anyone he meets.
So yeah, to you America is mostly the same everywhere you go. Go ask a native Hawaiian or someone from Tuskegee how similar all of the United States is.
On May 05 2013 03:47 Scootaloo wrote: Ofcourse, one liners and irrelevant critiques of grammar, how very... American of you.
Well, considering that it is oh so easy for you to point at our nationality and both attribute pedantic criticisms to it while in the same breath making cursory judgements as to the depth of our culture, I think it's easy to see that you are nothing more than a hater.
Not a hater at all actually, I enjoy an awful lot of your media, but when we're talking about culture's you'd have to be blind not to see the obvious problems here, for gods sake, many people still care more about their pre american cultures, be it Irish, Italian, African, Mexican or whatever then their American, let alone their states culture.
American has a lot of great things, but original culture is not one of them, if you think that makes me a hater, then clearly you're just talking out of some outdated sense of patriotism, not any kind of historical perspective.
Again, you clearly have no experience with actual Americans nor with the inherent problems in putting too much weight on ones' own anecdotal perspective when it comes to making judgements as expansive as those of an entire nation or culture. In fact, the notion of an "original culture" is something straight out of a fascist ideology; in order for one to even begin the process of judging such a thing, they must assign a value to a particular mode and operation of cultural expression with which to compare others. This superimposes a hierarchy of values overtop a phenomena that is distinctly without an objective value, and this amounts to cultural-political violence as one argues for their idea of culture in the face of others which may disagree with it.
It's clear you have no respect for American culture, but I'm afraid that such a judgement is more entrenched in discomfort and disregard rather than anything truly objective.
Actually, living in a very popular tourist destination for Americans and knowing quite a few, clearly you're talking out of your ass due of frustration. And if you're thinking this is all based on anecdotal evidence, clearly you've been too much caught up in thinking of fancy words to actually read my posts.
Clearly you're a cultural romantisist if you believe you should not assign values to cultural expressions, should we not assign a value to cultural practice of female or even male circumcision (which the states practice not for hygene purposes, but as a measure to counteract mastrubation)? How about the cultural tradition of hunting endangered species like whales? Or how about the american cultural ideas about physical beauty? That leads to anorexia, cosmetic surgery and steroids? The fact that something is a culture does not mean it deserves any praise or protection from scrutiny.
You're right, I don't respect American culture, not do I respect any other culture simply for the merit of it being one, American culture has done a couple good things once they started to ignore their own isolationism, but these days their slave liberating days are over and they are more inclined to enslave via the wonderful systems of debt and military threat.
On May 05 2013 03:47 Scootaloo wrote: Ofcourse, one liners and irrelevant critiques of grammar, how very... American of you.
Well, considering that it is oh so easy for you to point at our nationality and both attribute pedantic criticisms to it while in the same breath making cursory judgements as to the depth of our culture, I think it's easy to see that you are nothing more than a hater.
Not a hater at all actually, I enjoy an awful lot of your media, but when we're talking about culture's you'd have to be blind not to see the obvious problems here, for gods sake, many people still care more about their pre american cultures, be it Irish, Italian, African, Mexican or whatever then their American, let alone their states culture.
American has a lot of great things, but original culture is not one of them, if you think that makes me a hater, then clearly you're just talking out of some outdated sense of patriotism, not any kind of historical perspective.
Again, you clearly have no experience with actual Americans nor with the inherent problems in putting too much weight on ones' own anecdotal perspective when it comes to making judgements as expansive as those of an entire nation or culture. In fact, the notion of an "original culture" is something straight out of a fascist ideology; in order for one to even begin the process of judging such a thing, they must assign a value to a particular mode and operation of cultural expression with which to compare others. This superimposes a hierarchy of values overtop a phenomena that is distinctly without an objective value, and this amounts to cultural-political violence as one argues for their idea of culture in the face of others which may disagree with it.
It's clear you have no respect for American culture, but I'm afraid that such a judgement is more entrenched in discomfort and disregard rather than anything truly objective.
Actually, living in a very popular tourist destination for Americans and knowing quite a few, clearly you're talking out of your ass due of frustration. And if you're thinking this is all based on anecdotal evidence, clearly you've been too much caught up in thinking of fancy words to actually read my posts.
Clearly you're a cultural romantisist if you believe you should not assign values to cultural expressions, should we not assign a value to cultural practice of female or even male circumcision (which the states practice not for hygene purposes, but as a measure to counteract mastrubation)? How about the cultural tradition of hunting endangered species like whales? Or how about the american cultural ideas about physical beauty? That leads to anorexia, cosmetic surgery and steroids? The fact that something is a culture does not mean it deserves any praise or protection from scrutiny.
You're right, I don't respect American culture, not do I respect any other culture simply for the merit of it being one, American culture has done a couple good things once they started to ignore their own isolationism, but these days their slave liberating days are over and they are more inclined to enslave via the wonderful systems of debt and military threat.
So you know American culture based on tourists visiting your country? Am I understanding you correctly?
On May 05 2013 03:47 Scootaloo wrote: Ofcourse, one liners and irrelevant critiques of grammar, how very... American of you.
Well, considering that it is oh so easy for you to point at our nationality and both attribute pedantic criticisms to it while in the same breath making cursory judgements as to the depth of our culture, I think it's easy to see that you are nothing more than a hater.
Not a hater at all actually, I enjoy an awful lot of your media, but when we're talking about culture's you'd have to be blind not to see the obvious problems here, for gods sake, many people still care more about their pre american cultures, be it Irish, Italian, African, Mexican or whatever then their American, let alone their states culture.
American has a lot of great things, but original culture is not one of them, if you think that makes me a hater, then clearly you're just talking out of some outdated sense of patriotism, not any kind of historical perspective.
Again, you clearly have no experience with actual Americans nor with the inherent problems in putting too much weight on ones' own anecdotal perspective when it comes to making judgements as expansive as those of an entire nation or culture. In fact, the notion of an "original culture" is something straight out of a fascist ideology; in order for one to even begin the process of judging such a thing, they must assign a value to a particular mode and operation of cultural expression with which to compare others. This superimposes a hierarchy of values overtop a phenomena that is distinctly without an objective value, and this amounts to cultural-political violence as one argues for their idea of culture in the face of others which may disagree with it.
It's clear you have no respect for American culture, but I'm afraid that such a judgement is more entrenched in discomfort and disregard rather than anything truly objective.
Actually, living in a very popular tourist destination for Americans and knowing quite a few, clearly you're talking out of your ass due of frustration. And if you're thinking this is all based on anecdotal evidence, clearly you've been too much caught up in thinking of fancy words to actually read my posts.
Clearly you're a cultural romantisist if you believe you should not assign values to cultural expressions, should we not assign a value to cultural practice of female or even male circumcision (which the states practice not for hygene purposes, but as a measure to counteract mastrubation)? How about the cultural tradition of hunting endangered species like whales? Or how about the american cultural ideas about physical beauty? That leads to anorexia, cosmetic surgery and steroids? The fact that something is a culture does not mean it deserves any praise or protection from scrutiny.
You're right, I don't respect American culture, not do I respect any other culture simply for the merit of it being one, American culture has done a couple good things once they started to ignore their own isolationism, but these days their slave liberating days are over and they are more inclined to enslave via the wonderful systems of debt and military threat.
Holy crap dude! Astounding amount of ignorance. Please just stop. You're making a complete ass of yourself and it's clear most of your "knowledge" on America is based on stereotypes and ignorance.
Seems like a pointless discussion to me. No one here seems to be offering a metric to define "how different the culture is" between someone in texas and new york and how this "difference" compares to the one between Paris and Berlin. Everyone's just throwing out anectodal evidence and getting butthurt at those who disagree (well, mostly americans getting butthurt, but that isn't unexpected given the nature of the thread).
On May 05 2013 03:47 Scootaloo wrote: Ofcourse, one liners and irrelevant critiques of grammar, how very... American of you.
Well, considering that it is oh so easy for you to point at our nationality and both attribute pedantic criticisms to it while in the same breath making cursory judgements as to the depth of our culture, I think it's easy to see that you are nothing more than a hater.
Not a hater at all actually, I enjoy an awful lot of your media, but when we're talking about culture's you'd have to be blind not to see the obvious problems here, for gods sake, many people still care more about their pre american cultures, be it Irish, Italian, African, Mexican or whatever then their American, let alone their states culture.
American has a lot of great things, but original culture is not one of them, if you think that makes me a hater, then clearly you're just talking out of some outdated sense of patriotism, not any kind of historical perspective.
Again, you clearly have no experience with actual Americans nor with the inherent problems in putting too much weight on ones' own anecdotal perspective when it comes to making judgements as expansive as those of an entire nation or culture. In fact, the notion of an "original culture" is something straight out of a fascist ideology; in order for one to even begin the process of judging such a thing, they must assign a value to a particular mode and operation of cultural expression with which to compare others. This superimposes a hierarchy of values overtop a phenomena that is distinctly without an objective value, and this amounts to cultural-political violence as one argues for their idea of culture in the face of others which may disagree with it.
It's clear you have no respect for American culture, but I'm afraid that such a judgement is more entrenched in discomfort and disregard rather than anything truly objective.
Actually, living in a very popular tourist destination for Americans and knowing quite a few, clearly you're talking out of your ass due of frustration. And if you're thinking this is all based on anecdotal evidence, clearly you've been too much caught up in thinking of fancy words to actually read my posts.
Clearly you're a cultural romantisist if you believe you should not assign values to cultural expressions, should we not assign a value to cultural practice of female or even male circumcision (which the states practice not for hygene purposes, but as a measure to counteract mastrubation)? How about the cultural tradition of hunting endangered species like whales? Or how about the american cultural ideas about physical beauty? That leads to anorexia, cosmetic surgery and steroids? The fact that something is a culture does not mean it deserves any praise or protection from scrutiny.
You're right, I don't respect American culture, not do I respect any other culture simply for the merit of it being one, American culture has done a couple good things once they started to ignore their own isolationism, but these days their slave liberating days are over and they are more inclined to enslave via the wonderful systems of debt and military threat.
Even better that you willingly admit that you are judging the bulk of American culture based on having interacted with a few tourists. Anti-American sentiment is an incredibly popular and easily accessible idea abroad, and you are laying bare the fundamentally flawed backbone to such an idea through your repeated refusal to admit that getting a sense for the culture of over 300 million people, spread across one of the largest nations by land mass in the world, is actually an incredibly difficult thing. Your willingness to ascribe potentially negative cultural phenomena to the US and the US alone tells the tale. Whale hunting, the fashion world's distortion of popular beauty, and the controversy surrounding circumcision are all topics with multivarious influences and beginnings, and this is clear to anyone who isn't a card carrying anti-American.
On May 05 2013 05:56 Sbrubbles wrote: Seems like a pointless discussion to me. No one here seems to be offering a metric to define "how different the culture is" between someone in texas and new york and how this "difference" compares to the one between Paris and Berlin. Everyone's just throwing out anectodal evidence and getting butthurt at those who disagree (well, mostly americans getting butthurt, but that isn't unexpected given the nature of the thread).
So, if I start a thread about how the culture of Brazil breeds pathetically weak men, horrible discrepancies in wealth equality, and is responsible for the bulk of South America's problems, are you going to just sit there and take it? I'm genuinely curious.
On May 03 2013 14:39 micronesia wrote: I definitely think there are major variations in culture around the USA, but I don't think state lines are a good way to differentiate them.
I think many Europeans don't realize how different it is living in some states versus others. The size and diversity of the US is difficult to understand if you haven't experienced it yourself (there are not many comparable nations in this regard).
Canada?
ontario, quebec, east coast, west coast, northern inuit ect
Utah certainly has a different feel than most of the states I've been to. It might not be much, but what is different sticks out pretty clearly between states.
On May 03 2013 14:39 micronesia wrote: I definitely think there are major variations in culture around the USA, but I don't think state lines are a good way to differentiate them.
I think many Europeans don't realize how different it is living in some states versus others. The size and diversity of the US is difficult to understand if you haven't experienced it yourself (there are not many comparable nations in this regard).
Canada?
ontario, quebec, east coast, west coast, northern inuit ect
I think Canada is another good example (and again one of the few). I've been to enough places in Canada to see this myself, too.
On May 05 2013 05:56 Sbrubbles wrote: Seems like a pointless discussion to me. No one here seems to be offering a metric to define "how different the culture is" between someone in texas and new york and how this "difference" compares to the one between Paris and Berlin. Everyone's just throwing out anectodal evidence and getting butthurt at those who disagree (well, mostly americans getting butthurt, but that isn't unexpected given the nature of the thread).
So, if I start a thread about how the culture of Brazil breeds pathetically weak men, horrible discrepancies in wealth equality, and is responsible for the bulk of South America's problems, are you going to just sit there and take it? I'm genuinely curious.
Why did you think I said it was unexpected? Of course you would see the comparisions made in this thread as insulting, much as I do about your opinion on Brazil.
On May 05 2013 05:56 Sbrubbles wrote: Seems like a pointless discussion to me. No one here seems to be offering a metric to define "how different the culture is" between someone in texas and new york and how this "difference" compares to the one between Paris and Berlin. Everyone's just throwing out anectodal evidence and getting butthurt at those who disagree (well, mostly americans getting butthurt, but that isn't unexpected given the nature of the thread).
So, if I start a thread about how the culture of Brazil breeds pathetically weak men, horrible discrepancies in wealth equality, and is responsible for the bulk of South America's problems, are you going to just sit there and take it? I'm genuinely curious.
Why did you think I said it was unexpected? Of course you would see the comparisions made in this thread as insulting, much as I do about your opinion on Brazil.
But, this thread is not full of singularly judgmental, idiotic opinions; it's clear that a fair number of non-US citizens had relatively little idea as to just how much variation there is amongst US states, and it's pretty cool that US citizens are given the opportunity to speak on their home states and experiences. Just as I would love to get a better idea for the culture of Brazil, as I have relatively little experience. My point is that threads such as these need not be inherently negative if we simply discourage bad logic and encourage, oh I don't know, listening to one another?
Differences is a funny thing you'll find them in any country the difference in the US is the physical size of the US and the population; so you can find larger groups of differences. But it doesn't remove the shared history and identity. Local culture is always more pronounced it would be strange if it was the other way around.
The polls aren't much of a surprise ask American if they can different between regions of the US and their cultures you'll get more yes then no. Ask say a German and you're less likely to get people as informed about the US.
But reverse this ask an American to differentiate between the regions in Germany and you'll find far less people able to do so then if you asked a German to do it.
The only difference between the US and most other nations is physical size and diversity of the geographical locations. After all the US as a country that has continental weather. Scope is everything few countries share that kind of scope.
On May 05 2013 06:09 semantics wrote: Differences is a funny thing you'll find them in any country the difference in the US is the physical size of the US and the population; so you can find larger groups of differences. But it doesn't remove the shared history and identity. Local culture is always more pronounced it would be strange if it was the other way around.
The polls aren't much of a surprise ask American if they can different between regions of the US and their cultures you'll get more yes then no. Ask say a German and you're less likely to get people as informed about the US.
But reverse this ask an American to differentiate between the regions in Germany and you'll find far less people able to do so then if you asked a German to do it.
The only difference between the US and most other nations is physical size and diversity of the geographical locations. After all the US as a country that has continental weather. Scope is everything few countries share that kind of scope.
Of course I couldnt differentiate between regions in Germany, I havent been there. I would certainly be open to learning and hearing about these differences (and I know that they exist) though.
On May 05 2013 05:28 Gnaix wrote: Do U.S. states have their own culture or identity? Yes Are they extremely significant as most in the thread claims? No As someone who has lived in the Texas for ten years, New York for four, I would say the culture is different but not at all as significant as most claim. Yes, people identify themselves as New Yorkers, or Texans, but there's not that much state pride except when it comes to sports really. If one were to ask most people in the US, they would place their culture and identity as an American first rather than their state. However, in China it's almost the direct opposite, as there is almost ubiquitous provincial pride that it borderlines prejudice and discrimination. In fact, if you so much as speak a slightly different accent in China from the one the majority speak in the province, people will treat you differently, usually in the negative way. In fact, one of the first things asked in most conversations between Chinese is what province one's from. In the US, however, this is much less the case.
So you're willing to judge cultural diversity across all 50 states based on having lived in 2?
Right, because obviously I haven't spoken with anyone from states other than those 2 (sarcasm if you can't tell). In all seriousness, I merely mention the two simply because the previous poster said "Try living in one place in the USA, then move to a different place that is considered to be somehow culturally opposite (New York vs Texas for example)," and I happened to have lived in the two in the example, although I have lived in other states for much shorter lengths.
On May 05 2013 05:28 Gnaix wrote: Do U.S. states have their own culture or identity? Yes Are they extremely significant as most in the thread claims? No As someone who has lived in the Texas for ten years, New York for four, I would say the culture is different but not at all as significant as most claim. Yes, people identify themselves as New Yorkers, or Texans, but there's not that much state pride except when it comes to sports really. If one were to ask most people in the US, they would place their culture and identity as an American first rather than their state. However, in China it's almost the direct opposite, as there is almost ubiquitous provincial pride that it borderlines prejudice and discrimination. In fact, if you so much as speak a slightly different accent in China from the one the majority speak in the province, people will treat you differently, usually in the negative way. In fact, one of the first things asked in most conversations between Chinese is what province one's from. In the US, however, this is much less the case.
In all likelihood you're a white male younger than 30 who speaks General Northern, and almost never talks politics or religion with anyone he meets.
So yeah, to you America is mostly the same everywhere you go. Go ask a native Hawaiian or someone from Tuskegee how similar all of the United States is.
If you even bothered to read my post, you'll notice that I said I've lived for ten years in Texas, so if "General Northern" = "Southern Drawl", then you might be right. Although it's true that I almost never talk politics, I do happen to have discussed religion almost weekly with people of different locations. Also if you bothered to read the post, you'll notice how I can speak with authority of Chinese provincial differences. As "a white male younger than 30" doesn't seem to make much sense unless he happened to major in Chinese Language in college and went to study abroad in China as well. However, this isn't the case, as I was actually born in China and lived in quite a few different provinces there as well. And the different cultural and identity differences between Chinese provinces are much more significant than that of any US state.
On May 05 2013 05:28 Gnaix wrote: Do U.S. states have their own culture or identity? Yes Are they extremely significant as most in the thread claims? No As someone who has lived in the Texas for ten years, New York for four, I would say the culture is different but not at all as significant as most claim. Yes, people identify themselves as New Yorkers, or Texans, but there's not that much state pride except when it comes to sports really. If one were to ask most people in the US, they would place their culture and identity as an American first rather than their state. However, in China it's almost the direct opposite, as there is almost ubiquitous provincial pride that it borderlines prejudice and discrimination. In fact, if you so much as speak a slightly different accent in China from the one the majority speak in the province, people will treat you differently, usually in the negative way. In fact, one of the first things asked in most conversations between Chinese is what province one's from. In the US, however, this is much less the case.
So you're willing to judge cultural diversity across all 50 states based on having lived in 2?
Right, because obviously I haven't spoken with anyone from states other than those 2 (sarcasm if you can't tell). In all seriousness, I merely mention the two simply because the previous poster said "Try living in one place in the USA, then move to a different place that is considered to be somehow culturally opposite (New York vs Texas for example)," and I happened to have lived in the two in the example, although I have lived in other states for much shorter lengths.
On May 05 2013 05:28 Gnaix wrote: Do U.S. states have their own culture or identity? Yes Are they extremely significant as most in the thread claims? No As someone who has lived in the Texas for ten years, New York for four, I would say the culture is different but not at all as significant as most claim. Yes, people identify themselves as New Yorkers, or Texans, but there's not that much state pride except when it comes to sports really. If one were to ask most people in the US, they would place their culture and identity as an American first rather than their state. However, in China it's almost the direct opposite, as there is almost ubiquitous provincial pride that it borderlines prejudice and discrimination. In fact, if you so much as speak a slightly different accent in China from the one the majority speak in the province, people will treat you differently, usually in the negative way. In fact, one of the first things asked in most conversations between Chinese is what province one's from. In the US, however, this is much less the case.
In all likelihood you're a white male younger than 30 who speaks General Northern, and almost never talks politics or religion with anyone he meets.
So yeah, to you America is mostly the same everywhere you go. Go ask a native Hawaiian or someone from Tuskegee how similar all of the United States is.
If you even bothered to read my post, you'll notice that I said I've lived for ten years in Texas, so if "General Northern" = "Southern Drawl", then you might be right. Although it's true that I almost never talk politics, I do happen to have discussed religion almost weekly with people of different locations. Also if you bothered to read the post, you'll notice how I can speak with authority of Chinese provincial differences. As "a white male younger than 30" doesn't seem to make much sense unless he happened to major in Chinese Language in college and went to study abroad in China as well. However, this isn't the case, as I was actually born in China and lived in quite a few different provinces there as well. And the different cultural and identity differences between Chinese provinces are much more significant than that of any US state.
It doesn't matter how you dress it up; you are placing an inordinate amount of importance and significance on your own personal experiences, and your willingness to discount the possibility that things just might be different than your experiences have led you to believe speaks to hubris more than any sort of objective standard of cultural variation. The moral of the story is that comparing cultural variations across different nations is so problematic as to render the thing potentially useless outside decades of exhaustive research.
On May 05 2013 06:09 semantics wrote: The only difference between the US and most other nations is physical size and diversity of the geographical locations. After all the US as a country that has continental weather. Scope is everything few countries share that kind of scope.
Well another thing to consider is that many nations have had a large amount of racial homogeneity for hundreds if not thousands of years, whereas the USA is a 'melting pot' of many different cultures to begin with. This is another reason (besides physical size/population) for large internal variations that most countries can't compare to. Of course some countries that have historically been homogeneous are shifting away from that recently.
Quick question for people: Is it just me, or does it seem like people downplay the regions in which other languages are the primary (and sometimes only) language in the US?
Like the Hispanic areas in some cities, where they only speak spanish. Or some asian/vietnamese/japanese areas in other parts of the nation?
If it was another, smaller, country this would be regarded as a significant cultural difference... but here it is just some offshoot thing that is frequently ignored as if it isnt even American. I mean, there are a LOT of places all around the country where people just retained their heritage from their mother country... yet this isnt considered a different culture.
One only has to point to the discrepancies between California and Texas to prove states have their own culture, lol.
By the same token, however, there are culture differences within states as well. I'm going to use Cali. as an example. California is renowned for being a very left-leaning, progressive state, but could not stop Proposition 8 from passing back in '08. Debate on the validity of the Proposition notwithstanding, it should be noted that even Cali.'s voters were conservative enough to push the bill through. And while certain coastal metropolises of the state are incredibly left-leaning in their worldviews, there are many millions in the center and rural areas that are quite the opposite in their positions, and these political differences are very similar to the culture of the locales that people hail from.
Putting the political topic aside, I can say that in my own state there is a defined "culture" about it. We speak a certain way, and there's an intangible aspect to the accent that no one can seem to lay a finger on, but never fail to recognize. Our sports teams have some of the most crazed fans in the nation. Of course we have our own style of pizza too, lol.
All in all, I'd say there's cultural differences not only between states but also locales of different environments and social backgrounds that transcend state lines. Some attributes you can easily point to the state and say, "Yep, that's Texan." Or whatever. But some you have to look elsewhere, as those attributes are present in multiple states and cities across the country.
On May 05 2013 05:28 Gnaix wrote: Do U.S. states have their own culture or identity? Yes Are they extremely significant as most in the thread claims? No As someone who has lived in the Texas for ten years, New York for four, I would say the culture is different but not at all as significant as most claim. Yes, people identify themselves as New Yorkers, or Texans, but there's not that much state pride except when it comes to sports really. If one were to ask most people in the US, they would place their culture and identity as an American first rather than their state. However, in China it's almost the direct opposite, as there is almost ubiquitous provincial pride that it borderlines prejudice and discrimination. In fact, if you so much as speak a slightly different accent in China from the one the majority speak in the province, people will treat you differently, usually in the negative way. In fact, one of the first things asked in most conversations between Chinese is what province one's from. In the US, however, this is much less the case.
So you're willing to judge cultural diversity across all 50 states based on having lived in 2?
Right, because obviously I haven't spoken with anyone from states other than those 2 (sarcasm if you can't tell). In all seriousness, I merely mention the two simply because the previous poster said "Try living in one place in the USA, then move to a different place that is considered to be somehow culturally opposite (New York vs Texas for example)," and I happened to have lived in the two in the example, although I have lived in other states for much shorter lengths.
On May 05 2013 05:39 ShatterZer0 wrote:
On May 05 2013 05:28 Gnaix wrote: Do U.S. states have their own culture or identity? Yes Are they extremely significant as most in the thread claims? No As someone who has lived in the Texas for ten years, New York for four, I would say the culture is different but not at all as significant as most claim. Yes, people identify themselves as New Yorkers, or Texans, but there's not that much state pride except when it comes to sports really. If one were to ask most people in the US, they would place their culture and identity as an American first rather than their state. However, in China it's almost the direct opposite, as there is almost ubiquitous provincial pride that it borderlines prejudice and discrimination. In fact, if you so much as speak a slightly different accent in China from the one the majority speak in the province, people will treat you differently, usually in the negative way. In fact, one of the first things asked in most conversations between Chinese is what province one's from. In the US, however, this is much less the case.
In all likelihood you're a white male younger than 30 who speaks General Northern, and almost never talks politics or religion with anyone he meets.
So yeah, to you America is mostly the same everywhere you go. Go ask a native Hawaiian or someone from Tuskegee how similar all of the United States is.
If you even bothered to read my post, you'll notice that I said I've lived for ten years in Texas, so if "General Northern" = "Southern Drawl", then you might be right. Although it's true that I almost never talk politics, I do happen to have discussed religion almost weekly with people of different locations. Also if you bothered to read the post, you'll notice how I can speak with authority of Chinese provincial differences. As "a white male younger than 30" doesn't seem to make much sense unless he happened to major in Chinese Language in college and went to study abroad in China as well. However, this isn't the case, as I was actually born in China and lived in quite a few different provinces there as well. And the different cultural and identity differences between Chinese provinces are much more significant than that of any US state.
It doesn't matter how you dress it up; you are placing an inordinate amount of importance and significance on your own personal experiences, and your willingness to discount the possibility that things just might be different than your experiences have led you to believe speaks to hubris more than any sort of objective standard of cultural variation. The moral of the story is that comparing cultural variations across different nations is so problematic as to render the thing potentially useless outside decades of exhaustive research.
So, you agree with me on the pointlessness of this thread. Sure, it can function as a "post your experience of regional cultural differences between US states" thread, but it seems like it would frequently be derailed by people wanting to compare these differences to one in different countries (especially european countries since this thread was started by a brit).
On May 05 2013 05:28 Gnaix wrote: Do U.S. states have their own culture or identity? Yes Are they extremely significant as most in the thread claims? No As someone who has lived in the Texas for ten years, New York for four, I would say the culture is different but not at all as significant as most claim. Yes, people identify themselves as New Yorkers, or Texans, but there's not that much state pride except when it comes to sports really. If one were to ask most people in the US, they would place their culture and identity as an American first rather than their state. However, in China it's almost the direct opposite, as there is almost ubiquitous provincial pride that it borderlines prejudice and discrimination. In fact, if you so much as speak a slightly different accent in China from the one the majority speak in the province, people will treat you differently, usually in the negative way. In fact, one of the first things asked in most conversations between Chinese is what province one's from. In the US, however, this is much less the case.
So you're willing to judge cultural diversity across all 50 states based on having lived in 2?
Right, because obviously I haven't spoken with anyone from states other than those 2 (sarcasm if you can't tell). In all seriousness, I merely mention the two simply because the previous poster said "Try living in one place in the USA, then move to a different place that is considered to be somehow culturally opposite (New York vs Texas for example)," and I happened to have lived in the two in the example, although I have lived in other states for much shorter lengths.
On May 05 2013 05:39 ShatterZer0 wrote:
On May 05 2013 05:28 Gnaix wrote: Do U.S. states have their own culture or identity? Yes Are they extremely significant as most in the thread claims? No As someone who has lived in the Texas for ten years, New York for four, I would say the culture is different but not at all as significant as most claim. Yes, people identify themselves as New Yorkers, or Texans, but there's not that much state pride except when it comes to sports really. If one were to ask most people in the US, they would place their culture and identity as an American first rather than their state. However, in China it's almost the direct opposite, as there is almost ubiquitous provincial pride that it borderlines prejudice and discrimination. In fact, if you so much as speak a slightly different accent in China from the one the majority speak in the province, people will treat you differently, usually in the negative way. In fact, one of the first things asked in most conversations between Chinese is what province one's from. In the US, however, this is much less the case.
In all likelihood you're a white male younger than 30 who speaks General Northern, and almost never talks politics or religion with anyone he meets.
So yeah, to you America is mostly the same everywhere you go. Go ask a native Hawaiian or someone from Tuskegee how similar all of the United States is.
If you even bothered to read my post, you'll notice that I said I've lived for ten years in Texas, so if "General Northern" = "Southern Drawl", then you might be right. Although it's true that I almost never talk politics, I do happen to have discussed religion almost weekly with people of different locations. Also if you bothered to read the post, you'll notice how I can speak with authority of Chinese provincial differences. As "a white male younger than 30" doesn't seem to make much sense unless he happened to major in Chinese Language in college and went to study abroad in China as well. However, this isn't the case, as I was actually born in China and lived in quite a few different provinces there as well. And the different cultural and identity differences between Chinese provinces are much more significant than that of any US state.
It doesn't matter how you dress it up; you are placing an inordinate amount of importance and significance on your own personal experiences, and your willingness to discount the possibility that things just might be different than your experiences have led you to believe speaks to hubris more than any sort of objective standard of cultural variation. The moral of the story is that comparing cultural variations across different nations is so problematic as to render the thing potentially useless outside decades of exhaustive research.
So, you agree with me on the pointlessness of this thread. Sure, it can function as a "post your experience of regional cultural differences between US states" thread, but it seems like it would frequently be derailed by people wanting to compare these differences to one in different countries (especially european countries since this thread was started by a brit).
I think the OP's premise is flawed, but that does not mean that nothing good can come from a thread about cultural variation across the US, so long as we, in a manner of speaking, avoid stepping in the bullshit.
The Eurozone has in many ways broken down the bonds of singular culture. Similarly in America, globalization has affected us in many ways as well.
Here is an interesting article on Mitt Romney a and culture wars in America. It starts out as your standard liberal rant on greed and whatnot, but near the end, the author really illustrates what was so odd about Mitt - he doesn't represent anything in America! He has no definable Americanism. Interesting article.
On May 05 2013 06:30 TheRabidDeer wrote: Quick question for people: Is it just me, or does it seem like people downplay the regions in which other languages are the primary (and sometimes only) language in the US?
Like the Hispanic areas in some cities, where they only speak spanish. Or some asian/vietnamese/japanese areas in other parts of the nation?
If it was another, smaller, country this would be regarded as a significant cultural difference... but here it is just some offshoot thing that is frequently ignored as if it isnt even American. I mean, there are a LOT of places all around the country where people just retained their heritage from their mother country... yet this isnt considered a different culture.
This is anecdotal but I think its pertinent. Living in Oregon (which is pretty far away from Spanish speaking countries) I often deliver to work places where 80% of the people do not speak anything but very basic English and could not get a job working with anyone but other people who speak Spanish. Its also not uncommon for families to move here from all over the world (Ukraine, Poland, Russia, China, Iran) and not teach their children English until they are about to go into school or are already in school. People will stick with their cultural roots, and find others who share the same background, they will go to church with them, only speak their native language, make friends almost exclusively from the same migrant group.
People comparing Texas and New York should also be aware that those are both "big city" states. Yes they are culturally different but they share similarities in other ways which affect how people learn to interact with other people. Oregon has a few fairly large cities but then the rest of the population is spread out and isolated. But not as isolated as say someone living in North Dakota. Like I said in my earlier post, its really many complicated things being lumped into one discussion. If you were just talking about the cultural differences between New York and Wyoming it would be a lot easier to point out why they are different.
"What would you say is the main source of culture?"
This can't be answered by giving a region. The main source of "our" culture is Star Craft. People exist in many different cultural spheres, if you'd have to point out a single "main source" shared by a majority I'd say it is TV.
Culture is a very, very, VERY complicated concept.
It seems like many americans doesn't understand how extremely segregated the european countries are from eachother. It's extremely uncommon for us to move to another country for studies or employment, especially if you live in western europe, where our own country can offer us pretty much anything we want.
How many americans here have moved to another state for work or for studies? You americans can probably answer that more accurately than me.
How many swedes do you think have moved to another country for studies or for work? And with that I mean full 3+ year studies in another country. Out of the age category of 20-30 I would estimate that only 1% of us have.
Now compare that with the question I asked above. Moving between European countries is a much bigger deal than moving between american states. You have to leave your mother tongue behind. The TV shows are different. You will be introduced to a completely new set of brands and personalities. You can't just turn on CNN anymore. No, depending on what country you live in, the TV might show something called NRK, BBC or RTL, but it will not be up to you to decide which. European culture is extremely segregated on national levels.
Because there's a lot more movement between american states compared to European countries, and more exposure to culture from other states too, I think it's fair to assume that the american states have grown closer to eachother, and this is what us Europeans mean when we say that Europe have a greater cultural depth. What we're saying is that the typical person from state x isn't that different from the typical person from state y, if you compare with ppl from two different european countries. Bavarian Germans are probably more similar to Lower Saxon Germans than Texas Americans are to New York Americans, but if you instead compare Bavarian Germans with the Dutch, I'm not so sure anymore. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't, but if they are, I doubt you could branch out much further than that.
On May 05 2013 05:28 Gnaix wrote: Do U.S. states have their own culture or identity? Yes Are they extremely significant as most in the thread claims? No As someone who has lived in the Texas for ten years, New York for four, I would say the culture is different but not at all as significant as most claim. Yes, people identify themselves as New Yorkers, or Texans, but there's not that much state pride except when it comes to sports really. If one were to ask most people in the US, they would place their culture and identity as an American first rather than their state. However, in China it's almost the direct opposite, as there is almost ubiquitous provincial pride that it borderlines prejudice and discrimination. In fact, if you so much as speak a slightly different accent in China from the one the majority speak in the province, people will treat you differently, usually in the negative way. In fact, one of the first things asked in most conversations between Chinese is what province one's from. In the US, however, this is much less the case.
So you're willing to judge cultural diversity across all 50 states based on having lived in 2?
Right, because obviously I haven't spoken with anyone from states other than those 2 (sarcasm if you can't tell). In all seriousness, I merely mention the two simply because the previous poster said "Try living in one place in the USA, then move to a different place that is considered to be somehow culturally opposite (New York vs Texas for example)," and I happened to have lived in the two in the example, although I have lived in other states for much shorter lengths.
On May 05 2013 05:28 Gnaix wrote: Do U.S. states have their own culture or identity? Yes Are they extremely significant as most in the thread claims? No As someone who has lived in the Texas for ten years, New York for four, I would say the culture is different but not at all as significant as most claim. Yes, people identify themselves as New Yorkers, or Texans, but there's not that much state pride except when it comes to sports really. If one were to ask most people in the US, they would place their culture and identity as an American first rather than their state. However, in China it's almost the direct opposite, as there is almost ubiquitous provincial pride that it borderlines prejudice and discrimination. In fact, if you so much as speak a slightly different accent in China from the one the majority speak in the province, people will treat you differently, usually in the negative way. In fact, one of the first things asked in most conversations between Chinese is what province one's from. In the US, however, this is much less the case.
In all likelihood you're a white male younger than 30 who speaks General Northern, and almost never talks politics or religion with anyone he meets.
So yeah, to you America is mostly the same everywhere you go. Go ask a native Hawaiian or someone from Tuskegee how similar all of the United States is.
If you even bothered to read my post, you'll notice that I said I've lived for ten years in Texas, so if "General Northern" = "Southern Drawl", then you might be right. Although it's true that I almost never talk politics, I do happen to have discussed religion almost weekly with people of different locations. Also if you bothered to read the post, you'll notice how I can speak with authority of Chinese provincial differences. As "a white male younger than 30" doesn't seem to make much sense unless he happened to major in Chinese Language in college and went to study abroad in China as well. However, this isn't the case, as I was actually born in China and lived in quite a few different provinces there as well. And the different cultural and identity differences between Chinese provinces are much more significant than that of any US state.
Ten years in Texas doesn't mean you lived your formative years in Texas. Didn't know you were from China, you never mentioned it. Simply that you made an allusion to China.
Of course China is more culturally diverse than the United States. A third of the people in China really wish they weren't a part China to begin with. How many Uighurs don't feel like 3rd class citizens?
You're ethnically Chinese with a Southern Drawl? O.O Really? That's extremely rare, the cultural dialect, which generally proceeds regional dialect, of East Asians who grew up in America is General Northern. I know, I've lived in LA (city/suburbs), Philly (city/suburbs), NYC, and Texas (Dallas/suburbs) myself, got family who live in each. Never met an East Asian with more than a sarcastic one star accent. You sir, are a beautiful swan of a rarity.
On May 05 2013 10:02 ninini wrote: It seems like many americans doesn't understand how extremely segregated the european countries are from eachother. It's extremely uncommon for us to move to another country for studies or employment, especially if you live in western europe, where our own country can offer us pretty much anything we want.
How many americans here have moved to another state for work or for studies? You americans can probably answer that more accurately than me.
How many swedes do you think have moved to another country for studies or for work? And with that I mean full 3+ year studies in another country. Out of the age category of 20-30 I would estimate that only 1% of us have.
Now compare that with the question I asked above. Moving between European countries is a much bigger deal than moving between american states. You have to leave your mother tongue behind. The TV shows are different. You will be introduced to a completely new set of brands and personalities. You can't just turn on CNN anymore. No, depending on what country you live in, the TV might show something called NRK, BBC or RTL, but it will not be up to you to decide which. European culture is extremely segregated on national levels.
Because there's a lot more movement between american states compared to European countries, and more exposure to culture from other states too, I think it's fair to assume that the american states have grown closer to eachother, and this is what us Europeans mean when we say that Europe have a greater cultural depth. What we're saying is that the typical person from state x isn't that different from the typical person from state y, if you compare with ppl from two different european countries. Bavarian Germans are probably more similar to Lower Saxon Germans than Texas Americans are to New York Americans, but if you instead compare Bavarian Germans with the Dutch, I'm not so sure anymore. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't, but if they are, I doubt you could branch out much further than that.
You are also comparing a continent to a country. You need to compare Spain with Spain, not Spain with France. If you are talking about pure landmass, then sure I can see that. You have thousands of years of history, world wars, nationalism, language barriers with each country having their own national language (unlike the US, which doesnt have a named national language) etc. But that really isnt a legitimate comparison if youre looking at a COUNTRIES culture.
On May 05 2013 03:47 Scootaloo wrote: Ofcourse, one liners and irrelevant critiques of grammar, how very... American of you.
Well, considering that it is oh so easy for you to point at our nationality and both attribute pedantic criticisms to it while in the same breath making cursory judgements as to the depth of our culture, I think it's easy to see that you are nothing more than a hater.
Not a hater at all actually, I enjoy an awful lot of your media, but when we're talking about culture's you'd have to be blind not to see the obvious problems here, for gods sake, many people still care more about their pre american cultures, be it Irish, Italian, African, Mexican or whatever then their American, let alone their states culture.
American has a lot of great things, but original culture is not one of them, if you think that makes me a hater, then clearly you're just talking out of some outdated sense of patriotism, not any kind of historical perspective.
Again, you clearly have no experience with actual Americans nor with the inherent problems in putting too much weight on ones' own anecdotal perspective when it comes to making judgements as expansive as those of an entire nation or culture. In fact, the notion of an "original culture" is something straight out of a fascist ideology; in order for one to even begin the process of judging such a thing, they must assign a value to a particular mode and operation of cultural expression with which to compare others. This superimposes a hierarchy of values overtop a phenomena that is distinctly without an objective value, and this amounts to cultural-political violence as one argues for their idea of culture in the face of others which may disagree with it.
It's clear you have no respect for American culture, but I'm afraid that such a judgement is more entrenched in discomfort and disregard rather than anything truly objective.
Actually, living in a very popular tourist destination for Americans and knowing quite a few, clearly you're talking out of your ass due of frustration. And if you're thinking this is all based on anecdotal evidence, clearly you've been too much caught up in thinking of fancy words to actually read my posts.
Clearly you're a cultural romantisist if you believe you should not assign values to cultural expressions, should we not assign a value to cultural practice of female or even male circumcision (which the states practice not for hygene purposes, but as a measure to counteract mastrubation)? How about the cultural tradition of hunting endangered species like whales? Or how about the american cultural ideas about physical beauty? That leads to anorexia, cosmetic surgery and steroids? The fact that something is a culture does not mean it deserves any praise or protection from scrutiny.
You're right, I don't respect American culture, not do I respect any other culture simply for the merit of it being one, American culture has done a couple good things once they started to ignore their own isolationism, but these days their slave liberating days are over and they are more inclined to enslave via the wonderful systems of debt and military threat.
Even better that you willingly admit that you are judging the bulk of American culture based on having interacted with a few tourists. Anti-American sentiment is an incredibly popular and easily accessible idea abroad, and you are laying bare the fundamentally flawed backbone to such an idea through your repeated refusal to admit that getting a sense for the culture of over 300 million people, spread across one of the largest nations by land mass in the world, is actually an incredibly difficult thing. Your willingness to ascribe potentially negative cultural phenomena to the US and the US alone tells the tale. Whale hunting, the fashion world's distortion of popular beauty, and the controversy surrounding circumcision are all topics with multivarious influences and beginnings, and this is clear to anyone who isn't a card carrying anti-American.
On May 05 2013 05:56 Sbrubbles wrote: Seems like a pointless discussion to me. No one here seems to be offering a metric to define "how different the culture is" between someone in texas and new york and how this "difference" compares to the one between Paris and Berlin. Everyone's just throwing out anectodal evidence and getting butthurt at those who disagree (well, mostly americans getting butthurt, but that isn't unexpected given the nature of the thread).
So, if I start a thread about how the culture of Brazil breeds pathetically weak men, horrible discrepancies in wealth equality, and is responsible for the bulk of South America's problems, are you going to just sit there and take it? I'm genuinely curious.
The reason I brought up American tourists and friends at all was because you where blindly stating I never talked to an American, which was, well, just a blind statement. I find it cute how you try to turn me into some stereotype America hater, I really don't, they're our trembling giant superpower, they serve their purpose and create things of value just as any other country does. Culturally though, they are incredibly poor, this is not because I hate America, but for the very simple reason that you need time for that, I already gave some examples, many European countries have parts that don't even speak the native tongue of the country, let alone English, their traditions are completely different, from work schedules to clothing to their artforms, and although the Chinese government has tried to homogenize everything, the same can be said for them.
And you must have been confused if you thought I was saying that those problems where only American, I used whale fishing and female circumcisions specifically as an example to show that it's not just American culture that's rotten, most cultures have their extremely ugly sides, which is why we shouldn't coddle and protect them like you seem to be trying to do.
Oh in your second reply you seem to equate this to someone being incredibly discriminatory against South Americans, which really doesn't fly, just saying your culture is young and underdeveloped, for a country that is barely 300 years old, a mere blip compared to the history of China for instance, when that is a completely accurate statement is not discriminatory, it's just a simple statement of fact, that you're unable to see this just shows you have a serious lack of knowledge about history outside of your own country or don't understand how humans create culture.
On May 03 2013 14:39 micronesia wrote: I definitely think there are major variations in culture around the USA, but I don't think state lines are a good way to differentiate them.
I think many Europeans don't realize how different it is living in some states versus others. The size and diversity of the US is difficult to understand if you haven't experienced it yourself (there are not many comparable nations in this regard).
Probably only Brazil Russia and China in terms of being such a complete package
On May 03 2013 22:48 TheFish7 wrote: I have a perfect example. I work at a big corporation that has employees all over the country and I'm based out of Connecticut. The other day we had a conference call with some of our employees in West Virginia. One of the Virginians greeted my boss with a "Howdy, Ma'am!". This was a big mistake because my boss was very offended at being called "Ma'am". In West Virginia, this is a sign of respect but in Connecticut calling someone Ma'am is considered condescending, or implying that she is an old lady. .
On May 05 2013 05:28 Gnaix wrote: Do U.S. states have their own culture or identity? Yes Are they extremely significant as most in the thread claims? No As someone who has lived in the Texas for ten years, New York for four, I would say the culture is different but not at all as significant as most claim. Yes, people identify themselves as New Yorkers, or Texans, but there's not that much state pride except when it comes to sports really. If one were to ask most people in the US, they would place their culture and identity as an American first rather than their state. However, in China it's almost the direct opposite, as there is almost ubiquitous provincial pride that it borderlines prejudice and discrimination. In fact, if you so much as speak a slightly different accent in China from the one the majority speak in the province, people will treat you differently, usually in the negative way. In fact, one of the first things asked in most conversations between Chinese is what province one's from. In the US, however, this is much less the case.
So you're willing to judge cultural diversity across all 50 states based on having lived in 2?
Right, because obviously I haven't spoken with anyone from states other than those 2 (sarcasm if you can't tell). In all seriousness, I merely mention the two simply because the previous poster said "Try living in one place in the USA, then move to a different place that is considered to be somehow culturally opposite (New York vs Texas for example)," and I happened to have lived in the two in the example, although I have lived in other states for much shorter lengths.
On May 05 2013 05:39 ShatterZer0 wrote:
On May 05 2013 05:28 Gnaix wrote: Do U.S. states have their own culture or identity? Yes Are they extremely significant as most in the thread claims? No As someone who has lived in the Texas for ten years, New York for four, I would say the culture is different but not at all as significant as most claim. Yes, people identify themselves as New Yorkers, or Texans, but there's not that much state pride except when it comes to sports really. If one were to ask most people in the US, they would place their culture and identity as an American first rather than their state. However, in China it's almost the direct opposite, as there is almost ubiquitous provincial pride that it borderlines prejudice and discrimination. In fact, if you so much as speak a slightly different accent in China from the one the majority speak in the province, people will treat you differently, usually in the negative way. In fact, one of the first things asked in most conversations between Chinese is what province one's from. In the US, however, this is much less the case.
In all likelihood you're a white male younger than 30 who speaks General Northern, and almost never talks politics or religion with anyone he meets.
So yeah, to you America is mostly the same everywhere you go. Go ask a native Hawaiian or someone from Tuskegee how similar all of the United States is.
If you even bothered to read my post, you'll notice that I said I've lived for ten years in Texas, so if "General Northern" = "Southern Drawl", then you might be right. Although it's true that I almost never talk politics, I do happen to have discussed religion almost weekly with people of different locations. Also if you bothered to read the post, you'll notice how I can speak with authority of Chinese provincial differences. As "a white male younger than 30" doesn't seem to make much sense unless he happened to major in Chinese Language in college and went to study abroad in China as well. However, this isn't the case, as I was actually born in China and lived in quite a few different provinces there as well. And the different cultural and identity differences between Chinese provinces are much more significant than that of any US state.
It doesn't matter how you dress it up; you are placing an inordinate amount of importance and significance on your own personal experiences, and your willingness to discount the possibility that things just might be different than your experiences have led you to believe speaks to hubris more than any sort of objective standard of cultural variation. The moral of the story is that comparing cultural variations across different nations is so problematic as to render the thing potentially useless outside decades of exhaustive research.
Well you can insist it all you like, but there is certainly more cultural difference between an Amazonian native and a Wall Street banker than there is between a resident of Los Angeles and a resident of New York. Believe it or not, you don't need to wave a flag of objectivity to make this comparison. In fact - that's the point. The degree of cultural variation within a country is going to be a matter of degree.
So obviously it's going to be the case that there is 'cultural variation' within the US. Any collection of people are going to have 'cultural variation' - much like the cliques of a school, or the alliances within a workplace/politics. But, again to answer the OP's original concern, is it as distinguished as within Europe (I think the UK is the specific country being mentioned)? No its not.
On May 05 2013 05:28 Gnaix wrote: Do U.S. states have their own culture or identity? Yes Are they extremely significant as most in the thread claims? No As someone who has lived in the Texas for ten years, New York for four, I would say the culture is different but not at all as significant as most claim. Yes, people identify themselves as New Yorkers, or Texans, but there's not that much state pride except when it comes to sports really. If one were to ask most people in the US, they would place their culture and identity as an American first rather than their state. However, in China it's almost the direct opposite, as there is almost ubiquitous provincial pride that it borderlines prejudice and discrimination. In fact, if you so much as speak a slightly different accent in China from the one the majority speak in the province, people will treat you differently, usually in the negative way. In fact, one of the first things asked in most conversations between Chinese is what province one's from. In the US, however, this is much less the case.
So you're willing to judge cultural diversity across all 50 states based on having lived in 2?
Right, because obviously I haven't spoken with anyone from states other than those 2 (sarcasm if you can't tell). In all seriousness, I merely mention the two simply because the previous poster said "Try living in one place in the USA, then move to a different place that is considered to be somehow culturally opposite (New York vs Texas for example)," and I happened to have lived in the two in the example, although I have lived in other states for much shorter lengths.
On May 05 2013 05:39 ShatterZer0 wrote:
On May 05 2013 05:28 Gnaix wrote: Do U.S. states have their own culture or identity? Yes Are they extremely significant as most in the thread claims? No As someone who has lived in the Texas for ten years, New York for four, I would say the culture is different but not at all as significant as most claim. Yes, people identify themselves as New Yorkers, or Texans, but there's not that much state pride except when it comes to sports really. If one were to ask most people in the US, they would place their culture and identity as an American first rather than their state. However, in China it's almost the direct opposite, as there is almost ubiquitous provincial pride that it borderlines prejudice and discrimination. In fact, if you so much as speak a slightly different accent in China from the one the majority speak in the province, people will treat you differently, usually in the negative way. In fact, one of the first things asked in most conversations between Chinese is what province one's from. In the US, however, this is much less the case.
In all likelihood you're a white male younger than 30 who speaks General Northern, and almost never talks politics or religion with anyone he meets.
So yeah, to you America is mostly the same everywhere you go. Go ask a native Hawaiian or someone from Tuskegee how similar all of the United States is.
If you even bothered to read my post, you'll notice that I said I've lived for ten years in Texas, so if "General Northern" = "Southern Drawl", then you might be right. Although it's true that I almost never talk politics, I do happen to have discussed religion almost weekly with people of different locations. Also if you bothered to read the post, you'll notice how I can speak with authority of Chinese provincial differences. As "a white male younger than 30" doesn't seem to make much sense unless he happened to major in Chinese Language in college and went to study abroad in China as well. However, this isn't the case, as I was actually born in China and lived in quite a few different provinces there as well. And the different cultural and identity differences between Chinese provinces are much more significant than that of any US state.
It doesn't matter how you dress it up; you are placing an inordinate amount of importance and significance on your own personal experiences, and your willingness to discount the possibility that things just might be different than your experiences have led you to believe speaks to hubris more than any sort of objective standard of cultural variation. The moral of the story is that comparing cultural variations across different nations is so problematic as to render the thing potentially useless outside decades of exhaustive research.
So obviously it's going to be the case that there is 'cultural variation' within the US. Any collection of people are going to have 'cultural variation' - much like the cliques of a school, or the alliances within a workplace/politics. But, again to answer the OP's original concern, is it as distinguished as within Europe (I think the UK is the specific country being mentioned)? No its not.
What's confused me this whole thread is the OP just seemed to ask if there is enough cultural differences between the states to refute someone's concept that they are "entirely homogeneous", not how US cultural difference compares to any other nation, let alone a continent.
One thing I wonder about, how diverse are European Universities? Pretty much any decent size university in the US is just filled with people from all around the world so you can get quite the varying cultural experience. Is it the same pretty much in Europe?
As a european, I have always viewed the different states as small "different countries" with their own laws and traditions. I have no doubt that each state have their own culture, though it will share similarieties with neighboring states.
But so can be said about many european countries. Germany and the scandianvian countries share alot of culture. Hard to tell the difference unless you are born there.
EPT
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i'm enjoying the examples of the difference in US culture appearing
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