EPTTL recruiting SC2 writers - Page 9
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29 fps
United States5725 Posts
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AirbladeOrange
United States2573 Posts
On January 09 2013 15:09 StarStruck wrote: Good luck to all those who apply! AirbladeOrange with so many tournaments and the pick-up of games like DotA2 can you really say you're surprised? Actually yeah because it's just for SC2 writers. And with talks of the scene in decline and many peoples' waning interest I'd expect DOTA2 to gain all the momentum here. But it looks like it's just TL kicking up their standards for tournament coverage which I am not surprised about. TL has high standards and usually delivers. | ||
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
EDIT: Also is it OK if you go over the word limit? I'm doing a very TL-esque preview for group e of the up/downs and I am not sure I can keep it in the word limit ^^ | ||
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StrafeJD
United States39 Posts
Im out | ||
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SamanthaRain
United States37 Posts
On January 09 2013 18:37 Hiea wrote: I don't quite get why people are against volunteer positions, you decide whether you want, and of course there is requirements, so it's up to you if you want to do it. Take for example, DreamHack, they are a big organisation and how many volunteers do you think they have? Around 500, These can be anything from helping to setup the event, maintain it during the event, and clean up after, now their reward? I heard something about getting a free DH pass the next year, or a discount, which is the same that TL is giving the volunteers, passes to events (Online), you do less than the volunteers at DreamHack and get less rewards. I would like to contribute but covering events outside of Europe is outside my limitations as the time zones will fuck me up for school :/ There's a big difference between being a volunteer worker for DreamHack and a volunteer writer for TL. First of all, you would only work about two weeks for DreamHack, TL has you working year round. Second, DH workers spend less than 100 hours there, while TL writers easily spend two or three times more. Third, this is a full time job while DH volunteering is not. | ||
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36390 Posts
On January 10 2013 01:46 Luftmensch wrote: I understand what you are saying and what I am going to say may bother some, but I don't care: Capitalism. It is basically survival of the fittest, only for companies. Every business wants to do one thing: Make as much profit as possible while having as few expenses as possible, and that's what TL wants as well, lets not lie ourselves about it. That being said, I hope that it's not hard to understand that volunteerism is unnatural in a capitalistic society. To explain it in another way, there is no difference between volunteering your time and giving your money to a company. It would be a whole different thing if TL was a non-profit organization. If you give your time (a.k.a. money) to a non-profit organization, you are "aiding a cause", on the other hand if you do the same for a for-profit organization like TL, you're "working for free". What I said so far are just facts; facts do not judge, they do not have moral standards, they are what they are. Instead of leaving it there, instead of just saying "We need writers but we can't pay them, if someone can help it would be appreciated" and nothing else, you (the TL staff members) willfully decided to introduce hypocricy into the whole situation by sugarcoating it and defending your position in questionable ways. There is no need to put so much emphasis on how "others are doing it as well" as I as an individual do not care if others are working for free or not. I explained earlier why they shouldn't in the first place. There is also no need to explain how you do it out of love and personal sense of fulfillment because that is basically playing on the emotional card. Organized religion has been doing it for millennia so we know that it works but I seriously condone such unethical behavior on TL's part (that doesn't mean I don't understand it, simply that I do not approve of it and think less of you because of it). I do appreciate that TL exists, don't get me wrong. However, given the fact that you yourselves have chosen the for-profit route (and questionable demagogy to boot), in my mind you are a business like any other. If your business model isn't able to create a sustainable financial environment, that is entirely your problem and I won't cry when you are gone. I really don't understand what you are trying to say. Do you disagree with how we presented the post or our philosophy in general? You seem to take issue with the way we present it, but everything I said in my post about volunteerism and TL is true. You seem to think it is some sort of subtle manipulation or "playing the emotional card" to hypocritically gain more profits, well if you are set on that there is nothing I can really say to dissuade you from that. The bottom line is there is no deceit here, we don't promise payment or even the a substantial opportunity of future payment. Our writers know that very few make it to fulltime employment within ESPORTS. They simply enjoy doing what they do, and find reasons that are rewarding outside of money. You're comparing us to some sort of organized religion that exploits its members, laughing at people and saying "how can you work for free!??!" Why do artists paint and writers without the end goal of selling their product? Why do people make fan videos? Not everything is driven by money. What you are suggesting is that there exists a model where people can be paid wages to write about ESPORTS but TL chooses not to because we're attempting to cut costs and make more profits. Unfortunately there is nothing more I can say about this accusation other than it's not true. Right now the industry isn't at a point where TL paying writers is feasible. You also seem to think this will somehow be the downfall of our website and you won't "cry when we're gone" well we'll simply just disagree on that. | ||
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Grettin
42381 Posts
On January 10 2013 02:02 kollin wrote: I'd do the work for free. And a lot of people clearly do. I also edit Liquipedia, and expect no money from that. It may well take up a lot of time, but I do it in my free time and as a hobby, so that's fine for me. And honestly, 2400 words a week isn't that bad. If you don't have the time to do it, fine you won't be able to. But for the people who do and are willing to do it for free then I see no problem with them doing it for free. EDIT: Also is it OK if you go over the word limit? I'm doing a very TL-esque preview for group e of the up/downs and I am not sure I can keep it in the word limit ^^ 2400 words is absolute max. If its word longer than that, no one will read it!  I appreciate the work you guys do, especially those who edit Liquipedia. Big up. | ||
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36390 Posts
On January 10 2013 02:38 SamanthaRain wrote: There's a big difference between being a volunteer worker for DreamHack and a volunteer writer for TL. First of all, you would only work about two weeks for DreamHack, TL has you working year round. Second, DH workers spend less than 100 hours there, while TL writers easily spend two or three times more. Third, this is a full time job while DH volunteering is not. I don't know if you're being serious, but covering a league is not a full time job, it's not even actually close to a full time job. Where do you see people being forced into yearly positions? You can cover a league for one or two seasons and then stop, you can write a few editorials and that's it. I feel like you have a very inaccurate perception of what it means to be a TL volunteer writer... | ||
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
On January 10 2013 02:42 Grettin wrote: 2400 words is absolute max. If its word longer than that, no one will read it! I appreciate the work you guys do, especially those who edit Liquipedia. Big up. My article will probably be about 1000, not too bad ^^ And thanks for the, err...thanks :D Always nice to see what you do is appreciated. | ||
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Subversive
Australia2229 Posts
On January 10 2013 01:46 Luftmensch wrote: I do appreciate that TL exists, don't get me wrong. However, given the fact that you yourselves have chosen the for-profit route (and questionable demagogy to boot), in my mind you are a business like any other. If your business model isn't able to create a sustainable financial environment, that is entirely your problem and I won't cry when you are gone. And no one will cry when you're gone. | ||
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Silan
Denmark198 Posts
See, I actually know since I started and ran the StarCraft II section on the largest danish eSport website (xplayn.com) for about a year. My pay? A steelseries headset. And in some periods I worked at least twice of what TL is asking. What people obviously don't get is that its about fucking passion. It's about having some knowledge and wanting a platform where you can show it to others like; "Look at this shit? Isn't this awesome/stupid/funny?!". And when you reach an audience and they respond with "Fuck yeah this is awesome/stupid/funny!", it's worth every second spend. Now, if just my English wasn't so bad it made me feel awkward, i would apply in a heartbeat. I actually applied for a position on a competing website some weeks ago but they never returned. Maybe it's time to do the thing that makes the least sense, start something from scratch. Because fuck money!  | ||
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The_Darkness
United States910 Posts
On January 10 2013 01:46 Luftmensch wrote: I understand what you are saying and what I am going to say may bother some, but I don't care: Capitalism. It is basically survival of the fittest, only for companies. Every business wants to do one thing: Make as much profit as possible while having as few expenses as possible, and that's what TL wants as well, lets not lie ourselves about it. That being said, I hope that it's not hard to understand that volunteerism is unnatural in a capitalistic society. To explain it in another way, there is no difference between volunteering your time and giving your money to a company. It would be a whole different thing if TL was a non-profit organization. If you give your time (a.k.a. money) to a non-profit organization, you are "aiding a cause", on the other hand if you do the same for a for-profit organization like TL, you're "working for free". What I said so far are just facts; facts do not judge, they do not have moral standards, they are what they are. Instead of leaving it there, instead of just saying "We need writers but we can't pay them, if someone can help it would be appreciated" and nothing else, you (the TL staff members) willfully decided to introduce hypocricy into the whole situation by sugarcoating it and defending your position in questionable ways. There is no need to put so much emphasis on how "others are doing it as well" as I as an individual do not care if others are working for free or not. I explained earlier why they shouldn't in the first place. There is also no need to explain how you do it out of love and personal sense of fulfillment because that is basically playing on the emotional card. Organized religion has been doing it for millennia so we know that it works but I seriously condone such unethical behavior on TL's part (that doesn't mean I don't understand it, simply that I do not approve of it and think less of you because of it). I do appreciate that TL exists, don't get me wrong. However, given the fact that you yourselves have chosen the for-profit route (and questionable demagogy to boot), in my mind you are a business like any other. If your business model isn't able to create a sustainable financial environment, that is entirely your problem and I won't cry when you are gone. This post is way over the top. The nice thing about volunteering is that it's voluntary, so if people don't like the fact TL is turning a profit (I'm guessing any profit is very small) in part based on their efforts, they don't have to help out. Even if TL was turning a huge profit, who cares? People might want to write for free for all sorts of reasons -- they simply enjoy it and appreciate an outlet that allows them to be read by a reasonably large audience; they're trying to break into e-sports and want to rub elbows with people who are on the scene, etc. Is TL bad because they would allow these people (who want to write about e-sports for free) to write about e-sports for no pay? What are you angry about? | ||
Falling
Canada11411 Posts
TL is a community not an outsider venture capitalist company that has a 'genius' business plan to harness free labour. Things get done because people in the community are interested and passionate about furthering the community and if 'volunteerism' seems odious, then this is not for you. In my opinion, we cannot yet pay enough of the actual people competing, so then why would there magically be all this cash lying around for people to write about said competitors? We are fortunate that a couple people get paid, but it seems people are taking that for granted. No doubt 95% of what happens on TL, happens because of volunteers. | ||
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
Is it OK if I do a preview of the group E of the up and downs and send it in after the up and downs have been played. I only ask because I'm not sure if I can do that and a recap by tomorrow essentially, and while I'll do my best I'd rather not take any chances. | ||
TheEmulator
28096 Posts
On January 10 2013 03:59 kollin wrote: Sorry, just thought of another question, sorry for not having them in a single post. Is it OK if I do a preview of the group E of the up and downs and send it in after the up and downs have been played. I only ask because I'm not sure if I can do that and a recap by tomorrow essentially, and while I'll do my best I'd rather not take any chances. This recruitment is open until January 31st, so you don't have to finish it by tomorrow. | ||
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
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divito
Canada1213 Posts
On January 10 2013 02:45 Hot_Bid wrote: I don't know if you're being serious, but covering a league is not a full time job, it's not even actually close to a full time job. I'm not sure if you meant it this way, but the comment came off kind of trivializing (or I'm reading it that way because I'm a writer myself). If we're talking about real coverage, one league could be more than enough than a full-time job. Previews, battle reports/recaps, interviews, editorials by one person for that one league. Nevermind the actual writing, watching all the coverage and matches, taking notes, and preparing to write, you're looking at a bulky amount of work each week (depending on each league of course, some play daily etc...). Of course, if you lower the amount of content you want to produce, and divide one person per task, then sure, it's not much. | ||
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farvacola
United States18846 Posts
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
Maybe I never imagined it as such when I actually cared. I always wanted to help out simply because I enjoyed it. Twas a hobby and a passion to do what I can to share eSports with others. Now I understand that this has gotten bigger, but it still puts a  on my face. | ||
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