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On February 17 2018 01:00 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2018 00:55 Introvert wrote:
They could have agreed to a massive larger-than-DACA amnesty if they weren't so committed to keeping the spigot open. Instead that plan was "making America white again" (which was incorrect). T hs GOP wass so desperate for something many of them accepted 1.8 million path to citizenship instead of legal status for 700k.
The few "Dreamers" that might get deported is worth the PR for the Democrats. Trump killed the bill. His administration’s bill only got 39 votes. The master plan to cut down on legal immigration will never through congress because it is a terrible idea and no one by the limited number of immigration hardliners supports it. You can whine all you want about the democrats, but it was the WH that said it would veto the bill that had the best chance of passing.
Of course he killed it, it was a trash bill that didn't do anything to fix the problem and was an even larger amnesty than his own offer. The Senate, esp but not exclusively Senate democrats, refused to confront their own position and instead killed it all. That's on them.
All of the few Dreamers that will be deported (since they won't actively be sought) is on them and a few Republicans.
That is the point.
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I refuse to believe ICE won't seek out Dreamers if given the chance. They know where many live.
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ICE seem like bad people; not surprising though, as a) we tend to hear the abuses more than the average case
and b) self-selection will tend to cause a certain kind of person to want to work at ICE.
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On February 17 2018 01:10 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2018 01:00 Plansix wrote:On February 17 2018 00:55 Introvert wrote:
They could have agreed to a massive larger-than-DACA amnesty if they weren't so committed to keeping the spigot open. Instead that plan was "making America white again" (which was incorrect). T hs GOP wass so desperate for something many of them accepted 1.8 million path to citizenship instead of legal status for 700k.
The few "Dreamers" that might get deported is worth the PR for the Democrats. Trump killed the bill. His administration’s bill only got 39 votes. The master plan to cut down on legal immigration will never through congress because it is a terrible idea and no one by the limited number of immigration hardliners supports it. You can whine all you want about the democrats, but it was the WH that said it would veto the bill that had the best chance of passing. Of course he killed it, it was a trash bill that didn't do anything to fix the problem and was an even larger amnesty than his own offer. The Senate, esp but not exclusively Senate democrats, refused to confront their own position and instead killed it all. That's on them. All of the few Dreamers that will be deported (since they won't actively be sought) is on them and a few Republicans. That is the point.
As I said before, the minority of Republicans that are immigration hardliners will do anything to kill any immigration reform and you will cheer them on. You don’t want compromise, you demand surrender.
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That's funny, I could had sworn that introvert had previously insisted that republicans don't want to deport dreamers, but now the opposite is true. Hmmm...
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On February 17 2018 01:51 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
That's funny, I could had sworn that introvert had previously insisted that republicans don't want to deport dreamers, but now the opposite is true. Hmmm...
"It's not that we don't want to save dreamers. We just want something in return" was roughly what he said.
In essence "I recognize that it is the moral thing to do, but I need some form of payment to be a decent person for some fucked up reason"
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The master plan of saying you support a compromise when you have no intention of supporting compromise. It has been the conservative/tea party modus operandi from day one.
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On February 17 2018 02:00 Plansix wrote:
The master plan of saying you support a compromise when you have no intention of supporting compromise. It has been the conservative/tea party modus operandi from day one.
"Look dude, I already said I am willing to allow blacks to continue attending schools with federal funding. All I ask in return is that we eliminate immigration from brown countries. I am extending an olive branch here. Why won't you accept my compromise?"
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It doesn't matter whether republicans would want something in return or not. You can beleive that the republican part either want to save dreamers, or beleive that they don't want to save dreamers. They are mutually exclusive. So which is it? It cannot be both and he has written both. He is not the one making policy, so he has to believe in one or the other, or he is simply willing to write two discongruous statements. Did he change his opinion? You cannot believe both at the same time.
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On February 17 2018 01:52 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2018 01:51 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
That's funny, I could had sworn that introvert had previously insisted that republicans don't want to deport dreamers, but now the opposite is true. Hmmm... "It's not that we don't want to save dreamers. We just want something in return" was roughly what he said. In essence "I recognize that it is the moral thing to do, but I need some form of payment to be a decent person for some fucked up reason"
You must have missed my follow up post in our discussion which I won't look for now cause I'm on mobile. But I dispute that characterization and would also remind you of the moral component, if we are to talk in those terms, of security, enforcement, and taking steps to prevent this from happening in another 20 years.
Amnesty wasd there was for taking, but zero strings could be attached. Utterly insane.
Edit: the GOP doesn't want ads with sad music about Dreamers deportation. use your heads.
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I’m sure they don’t want the ads. But they also don’t want the ad saying they betrayed Trump, stood with Pelosi and allowed illegal immigrants to flood the country in the primary. Which is why Trump was able to kill the bill that was likely to pass.
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Hey Introvert, whilst you are actively posting, do republicans want to, or don't want to deport dreamers, or is the cognitive dissonance too great for you yet?
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On February 17 2018 02:23 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Hey Introvert, whilst you are actively posting, do republicans want to, or don't want to deport dreamers, or is the cognitive dissonance too great for you yet?
I don't really know you or why you have been such a massive ass the few times you've posted at me but it doesn't make me feel like responding would be useful.
But for the posters in this thread who are still using their brains: No, the large majority of GOP politicians don't want Dreamers deported and know if this fails very few will (as the Democrats know as well). Reporting has indicated this as well.
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We don’t know what is going to happen to the Dreams. But considering the behavior of ICE, the fact that their lead attorney is currently being charged with identity theft and their aggression towards deporting anyone(including American citizens), I bet it will be more than just a few that get detained.
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On February 17 2018 02:34 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2018 02:23 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Hey Introvert, whilst you are actively posting, do republicans want to, or don't want to deport dreamers, or is the cognitive dissonance too great for you yet? I don't really know you or why you have been such a massive ass the few times you've posted at me but it doesn't make me feel like responding would be useful. But for the posters in this thread who are still using their brains: No, the large majority of GOP politicians don't want Dreamers deported and know if this fails very few will (as the Democrats know as well). Reporting has indicated this as well.
Maybe the misunderstanding is coming from the question of why republicans don't want to deport dreamers. Why do GOP politicians not want to deport dreamers? Because it is a messed up thing to do or other reasons?
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On February 17 2018 02:34 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2018 02:23 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Hey Introvert, whilst you are actively posting, do republicans want to, or don't want to deport dreamers, or is the cognitive dissonance too great for you yet? I don't really know you or why you have been such a massive ass the few times you've posted at me but it doesn't make me feel like responding would be useful. But for the posters in this thread who are still using their brains: No, the large majority of GOP politicians don't want Dreamers deported and know if this fails very few will (as the Democrats know as well). Reporting has indicated this as well.
"We don't want Dreamers deported by we are not actually going to do anything to stop it from happening because we hope the nice people who's job it is to deport people will not deport these people who we would rather not see deported"
Yeah, I'm sure that will work out swimmingly.
Go find a Dreamer in your neighborhood and tell him/her to his/her face "very few of you will get deported". Go see what kind of response that will get you.
If the large majority of the GOP don't want this then tell them to damn well do something about it. Their the party in charge of the government last time I checked. The ball is in their court.
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I am sorry that I hurt your precious safe space Introvert, when I point out that you hold two completely contradictory viewpoints within your head. On believing that the large majority of republicans don't want dreamers deported, what would you presume the reason for their utter inability to pass legislation to prevent such?
If you think I am being a "massive ass" to you, please report my posts instead, and refrain from declaring that I am not using my brain.
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Didn't someone say that the investigation had moved on to Obstruction of Justice because they found nothing on Russia trying to interfere in the elections?
Also, I wonder if these Russians are in the US where they can be arrested or if they are in Russia who will (I assume) never ever extradite them.
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I'm sure someone said that and I bet they will still say it. The investigation won't change minds, but it is interesting to watch.
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EPT
