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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On January 28 2018 08:27 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Aaaand the thread turned again into Danglar against the world.
Yawn.
It’s about as much fun and as interesting as arguing with conspiracy theorist.
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On January 28 2018 08:54 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2018 08:27 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Aaaand the thread turned again into Danglar against the world.
Yawn. It’s about as much fun and as interesting as arguing with conspiracy theorist.
I wonder if in his own mind he actually sees himself winning any of those arguments?
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On January 28 2018 08:58 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2018 08:54 Plansix wrote:On January 28 2018 08:27 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Aaaand the thread turned again into Danglar against the world.
Yawn. It’s about as much fun and as interesting as arguing with conspiracy theorist. I wonder if in his own mind he actually sees himself winning any of those arguments?
You could also give up. I didn’t see much argument beyond slurs.
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On January 28 2018 08:15 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2018 08:10 NewSunshine wrote:On January 28 2018 07:24 Danglars wrote:
This forum isn't famous for a spectrum of ideological diversity. It's more the place where you accuse opponents of hating brown people and loving Trump. Utter hogwash. The fact that the majority of people here disagree with you doesn't make them all far leftists. Plenty of people hold plenty of different opinions, and for different reasons. I regularly find things I disagree on between myself and regular posters such as P6 or GH, even Kwark. The difference is I find them (largely) reasonable. If you feel like the world is out to get you, perhaps try examining the way you interact with people, or the positions you hold. You should include what that was a response to and if you agree with his reasoning. “Man protests that the absence of others taking his side on the forum is not evidence that his takeaway is wrong. Clearly, he thinks nobody disagrees in this forum and everybody’s far left” Ludicrous.
It was a response to you, particularly the thing I quoted. I figured that was obvious. You seem to have it in your head that everyone who disagrees with you is a leftist, which is simply wrong. When you argue adversarially with people because they don't just buy into what you're saying, you lump them all into one group together, and surprise, they don't like discussing the subject with you anymore. The world is not black and white, red and blue, right and left.
On January 28 2018 08:29 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2018 08:27 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Aaaand the thread turned again into Danglar against the world.
Yawn. Thankfully we have people like you and sunshine to fill the thread with pointless filler.
And I suppose it's also a good thing that you consistently try to police the thread. I'll let the mods decide if my posts are worthless or not, thank you.
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CNN "exclusive" so take it with a pitcher of salt.
Washington (CNN)A growing number of State Department employees are charging they are being put in career purgatory because of their previous work on policy priorities associated with President Barack Obama and in offices the Trump administration is interested in closing.
The situation has got so serious that several officials tell CNN they have retained attorneys after repeatedly trying unsuccessfully to raise concerns about being assigned to low-level jobs in Foggy Bottom such as answering Freedom of Information Act requests.
The issue has also come to the attention of senior Democrats on Capitol Hill.
Secretary of State Rex Tillerson has made clearing a backlog of FOIA requests a priority and reassigned staff to what State Department spokesperson Heather Nauert has called "an all-hands on deck" effort to clear the backlog. Significant progress has been made, and the number of outstanding requests -- which stood at 22,000 in January 2017 -- has been reduced to about 13,000, Tillerson said in November, adding that he hopes the backlog will be cleared by the end of 2018.
The backlog grew over the last several years in part due to numerous requests from journalists and conservative groups, including Judicial Watch and Citizens United, for records relating to Hillary Clinton's emails.
www.cnn.com
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On January 28 2018 10:00 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2018 08:15 Danglars wrote:On January 28 2018 08:10 NewSunshine wrote:On January 28 2018 07:24 Danglars wrote:
This forum isn't famous for a spectrum of ideological diversity. It's more the place where you accuse opponents of hating brown people and loving Trump. Utter hogwash. The fact that the majority of people here disagree with you doesn't make them all far leftists. Plenty of people hold plenty of different opinions, and for different reasons. I regularly find things I disagree on between myself and regular posters such as P6 or GH, even Kwark. The difference is I find them (largely) reasonable. If you feel like the world is out to get you, perhaps try examining the way you interact with people, or the positions you hold. You should include what that was a response to and if you agree with his reasoning. “Man protests that the absence of others taking his side on the forum is not evidence that his takeaway is wrong. Clearly, he thinks nobody disagrees in this forum and everybody’s far left” Ludicrous. It was a response to you, particularly the thing I quoted. I figured that was obvious. You seem to have it in your head that everyone who disagrees with you is a leftist, which is simply wrong. When you argue adversarially with people because they don't just buy into what you're saying, you lump them all into one group together, and surprise, they don't like discussing the subject with you anymore. The world is not black and white, red and blue, right and left. Show nested quote +On January 28 2018 08:29 Sermokala wrote:On January 28 2018 08:27 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Aaaand the thread turned again into Danglar against the world.
Yawn. Thankfully we have people like you and sunshine to fill the thread with pointless filler. And I suppose it's also a good thing that you consistently try to police the thread. I'll let the mods decide if my posts are worthless or not, thank you.
Oh you misunderstand I don't think your points are worthless I think that they're pointless. You're the commercial break of posters. Nothing about most of your posts actually says anything other then talking points and cheerleading. People don't respond to you most of the time because you don't think your peers need to have any value for your posts and your contribution. People give Danglar shit but at least they give a shit enough about him to give him that shit.
On January 28 2018 08:58 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2018 08:54 Plansix wrote:On January 28 2018 08:27 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Aaaand the thread turned again into Danglar against the world.
Yawn. It’s about as much fun and as interesting as arguing with conspiracy theorist. I wonder if in his own mind he actually sees himself winning any of those arguments?
Honest question do you see yourself actually winning any of the arguments?
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No one wins arguments on the internet.
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On January 28 2018 08:40 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2018 08:31 Doodsmack wrote:On January 28 2018 08:05 Danglars wrote:On January 28 2018 07:27 Doodsmack wrote:
So the FBI thwarts a terrorist attack on CNN, after the terrorist used the same language against them that Trump uses against them. CNN creates a video about the subject. Danglars makes the video into an issue of greater importance than the terrorist.
Oh and Trump didn't make a meaningful effort to fire Mueller and launch a campaign to discredit his team and the FBI. That's all CNN fake news. Trump has the right to do those things. But he didn't actually do those things because it's CNN fake news. And even if he did do those things, there's still this banana video, so why are we paying so much attention to Trump having threatened the jobs of Sessions, Comey, Rosenstein and Mueller? It's not a big deal that there's an ongoing FBI investigation of obstruction by the president, because CNN. Speaking of unseriousness, legitimately making criticism of a video comparable to diminishing the importance of terrorism is kind of the same problem. You're the one saying the charge that the terrorist was encouraged by Trump is frivolous, even though the guy used the same anti-CNN language that Trump popularized. You imply that the video is of equal importance as these other issues, and that it is "purely political posturing" to point out that Trump made a concerted effort to fire Mueller. Your views of the liberal media frequently cloud your assessment of Trump. “The same anti-CNN language that Trump popularized?” Do you listen to yourself? Like, radical terrorists use the same language the Islamic religion popularized, so they were encouraged in their acts of terrorism by Islam? When I take apart a video I think is remarkably dumb, it does not assert its “of equal importance as these other issues.” Only an idiot would think its a comparison of importance for anything. It’s a dumb video and it’s connection is the one I posted about. But if you’re so Trump-deranged that video criticism is saying videos are more important than terrorism, you’re truly lost.
Well you said the video is a demonstration of the lack of seriousness of CNN's message. You brush off any notion that Trump's language would incite a crazy, then turn your attention back to CNN. It would be funny to see Trump voters trying to make arguments relating to Trump if there were no liberal media establishment that apparently consumes their attention when it comes to politics.
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On January 28 2018 10:25 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2018 10:00 NewSunshine wrote:On January 28 2018 08:15 Danglars wrote:On January 28 2018 08:10 NewSunshine wrote:On January 28 2018 07:24 Danglars wrote:
This forum isn't famous for a spectrum of ideological diversity. It's more the place where you accuse opponents of hating brown people and loving Trump. Utter hogwash. The fact that the majority of people here disagree with you doesn't make them all far leftists. Plenty of people hold plenty of different opinions, and for different reasons. I regularly find things I disagree on between myself and regular posters such as P6 or GH, even Kwark. The difference is I find them (largely) reasonable. If you feel like the world is out to get you, perhaps try examining the way you interact with people, or the positions you hold. You should include what that was a response to and if you agree with his reasoning. “Man protests that the absence of others taking his side on the forum is not evidence that his takeaway is wrong. Clearly, he thinks nobody disagrees in this forum and everybody’s far left” Ludicrous. It was a response to you, particularly the thing I quoted. I figured that was obvious. You seem to have it in your head that everyone who disagrees with you is a leftist, which is simply wrong. When you argue adversarially with people because they don't just buy into what you're saying, you lump them all into one group together, and surprise, they don't like discussing the subject with you anymore. The world is not black and white, red and blue, right and left. On January 28 2018 08:29 Sermokala wrote:On January 28 2018 08:27 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Aaaand the thread turned again into Danglar against the world.
Yawn. Thankfully we have people like you and sunshine to fill the thread with pointless filler. And I suppose it's also a good thing that you consistently try to police the thread. I'll let the mods decide if my posts are worthless or not, thank you. Oh you misunderstand I don't think your points are worthless I think that they're pointless. You're the commercial break of posters. Nothing about most of your posts actually says anything other then talking points and cheerleading. People don't respond to you most of the time because you don't think your peers need to have any value for your posts and your contribution. People give Danglar shit but at least they give a shit enough about him to give him that shit.
People don't have to respond to me if they don't want to, I don't view any one poster's validity as based on how much people directly engage with them. Simply putting one's voice out to be heard matters too. I engage in a less superficial manner from time to time, but I don't have the energy to do that every time just because that's what you would like. I'm an engineering student, I usually have better things to do with my time. I keep myself informed, I voice my opinion, and occasionally I'm up for an argument, but that's not always the case. I don't view this thread as strictly for debate. Apparently you disagree. Either way, I don't need your judgement or evaluation, or random callouts because I don't contribute the way you want me to. Keep to yourself and I'll kindly do the same.
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On January 28 2018 08:15 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2018 08:10 NewSunshine wrote:On January 28 2018 07:24 Danglars wrote:
This forum isn't famous for a spectrum of ideological diversity. It's more the place where you accuse opponents of hating brown people and loving Trump. Utter hogwash. The fact that the majority of people here disagree with you doesn't make them all far leftists. Plenty of people hold plenty of different opinions, and for different reasons. I regularly find things I disagree on between myself and regular posters such as P6 or GH, even Kwark. The difference is I find them (largely) reasonable. If you feel like the world is out to get you, perhaps try examining the way you interact with people, or the positions you hold. Didn't this forum use to be pretty much 50-50 left/right before Trump? I think that speaks volumes in and of itself. Trump and the republican party just isn't reasonable any more. There is zero worth in there. It's an "opposition party" whose only values are to be opposed of the other party (and, as it turns out, to be opposed of any reason and intelligence). Also, as a quote has been going around states: "Everything is left when you're to the right of Mussolini"
the forum has always been left-leaning iirc; though if you count just american posters i'm less sure, though it probably still was somewhat.
it is true that the republicans have been getting crazier and crazier; and have gone full loco with trump, and this has afflicted many who post on that side (to varying degrees). also partisanship (plus people in general bein stupid) causes many right-leaning posters to defend other right-leaning posters even when they shouldn't be.
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On January 28 2018 10:59 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2018 08:15 Excludos wrote:On January 28 2018 08:10 NewSunshine wrote:On January 28 2018 07:24 Danglars wrote:
This forum isn't famous for a spectrum of ideological diversity. It's more the place where you accuse opponents of hating brown people and loving Trump. Utter hogwash. The fact that the majority of people here disagree with you doesn't make them all far leftists. Plenty of people hold plenty of different opinions, and for different reasons. I regularly find things I disagree on between myself and regular posters such as P6 or GH, even Kwark. The difference is I find them (largely) reasonable. If you feel like the world is out to get you, perhaps try examining the way you interact with people, or the positions you hold. Didn't this forum use to be pretty much 50-50 left/right before Trump? I think that speaks volumes in and of itself. Trump and the republican party just isn't reasonable any more. There is zero worth in there. It's an "opposition party" whose only values are to be opposed of the other party (and, as it turns out, to be opposed of any reason and intelligence). Also, as a quote has been going around states: "Everything is left when you're to the right of Mussolini" the forum has always been left-leaning iirc; though if you count just american posters i'm less sure, though it probably still was somewhat. it is true that the republicans have been getting crazier and crazier; and have gone full loco with trump, and this has afflicted many who post on that side (to varying degrees). also partisanship (plus people in general bein stupid) causes many right-leaning posters to defend other right-leaning posters even when they shouldn't be.
It's hard for either side to be civil when one side is endorsing Trump, along with his assaults on the media, assaults on the federal justice system, assaults on decorum and decency. I'm not sure what Danglars thinks Trump is offering to America and the world that is worth the trade-off of what is without doubt the most childish and tyrannical human-being to ever become President. Republicans seem more interested in defending the childishness and tyranny, although they'll say it's because we're being so relentlessly unfair in criticizing him.
So of course they're also the ones typically calling for civility, which is what people do when they're destroying normality. Anyone who looks at a timeline of Trump's actions and words as President can only be horrified. If you're not horrified, then you care about something that isn't America's well-being.
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On January 28 2018 10:53 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2018 10:25 Sermokala wrote:On January 28 2018 10:00 NewSunshine wrote:On January 28 2018 08:15 Danglars wrote:On January 28 2018 08:10 NewSunshine wrote:On January 28 2018 07:24 Danglars wrote:
This forum isn't famous for a spectrum of ideological diversity. It's more the place where you accuse opponents of hating brown people and loving Trump. Utter hogwash. The fact that the majority of people here disagree with you doesn't make them all far leftists. Plenty of people hold plenty of different opinions, and for different reasons. I regularly find things I disagree on between myself and regular posters such as P6 or GH, even Kwark. The difference is I find them (largely) reasonable. If you feel like the world is out to get you, perhaps try examining the way you interact with people, or the positions you hold. You should include what that was a response to and if you agree with his reasoning. “Man protests that the absence of others taking his side on the forum is not evidence that his takeaway is wrong. Clearly, he thinks nobody disagrees in this forum and everybody’s far left” Ludicrous. It was a response to you, particularly the thing I quoted. I figured that was obvious. You seem to have it in your head that everyone who disagrees with you is a leftist, which is simply wrong. When you argue adversarially with people because they don't just buy into what you're saying, you lump them all into one group together, and surprise, they don't like discussing the subject with you anymore. The world is not black and white, red and blue, right and left. On January 28 2018 08:29 Sermokala wrote:On January 28 2018 08:27 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Aaaand the thread turned again into Danglar against the world.
Yawn. Thankfully we have people like you and sunshine to fill the thread with pointless filler. And I suppose it's also a good thing that you consistently try to police the thread. I'll let the mods decide if my posts are worthless or not, thank you. Oh you misunderstand I don't think your points are worthless I think that they're pointless. You're the commercial break of posters. Nothing about most of your posts actually says anything other then talking points and cheerleading. People don't respond to you most of the time because you don't think your peers need to have any value for your posts and your contribution. People give Danglar shit but at least they give a shit enough about him to give him that shit. People don't have to respond to me if they don't want to, I don't view any one poster's validity as based on how much people directly engage with them. Simply putting one's voice out to be heard matters too. I engage in a less superficial manner from time to time, but I don't have the energy to do that every time just because that's what you would like. I'm an engineering student, I usually have better things to do with my time. I keep myself informed, I voice my opinion, and occasionally I'm up for an argument, but that's not always the case. I don't view this thread as strictly for debate. Apparently you disagree. Either way, I don't need your judgement or evaluation, or random callouts because I don't contribute the way you want me to. Keep to yourself and I'll kindly do the same.
You're still misunderstanding. None of your posts almost ever have a point. If we followed your posts we wouldn't come to the conclusions that you have opinions, are informed, are busy in any way, or are ever up for an argument about anything.
Lets dig into your last two major posts in the thread before I made a dig at you
On January 27 2018 13:41 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2018 12:03 Danglars wrote:On January 27 2018 10:37 Excludos wrote:http://foreignpolicy.com/2018/01/26/trump-launched-campaign-to-discredit-potential-fbi-witnesses/President Donald Trump pressed senior aides last June to devise and carry out a campaign to discredit senior FBI officials after learning that those specific employees were likely to be witnesses against him as part of special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation, according to two people directly familiar with the matter. The New York Times reported late Thursday that Trump also ordered the firing of Mueller last June. Trump reportedly changed his mind after White House counsel Donald McGahn threatened to resign and two of the president’s highest-ranking aides told him that it would have devastating effects on his presidency. Just a shame Obstruction of Justice doesn't mean much in GOP land. It kind of lost its fangs when everything was considered obstruction of justice and the writers/posters made it clear they had no fucking clue about the legal standard. Now it's like digging through a pile of shit from anonymous sources, wondering if we actually have something this time, or a group of libs didn't like something he did but like the sound of "obstruction" more than "unethical." That really is too bad. It shouldn't lose its fangs. If you're just throwing your hands up and going "well everyone the libs call everything obstruction, so now nothing is anymore", that's choosing to whitewash it and devoid it of nuance. Even if someone is wrong in labeling it obstruction(arguable), that doesn't make its inarguable lack of ethics any more ok.
You start your post by disagreeing with Danglars. To have a point you'd need to follow that up with something about that statement. You make another accusation that hes whitewashing the term and devoiding it of nuance before stating that its actualy about a lack of ethics
You started your post by disagreeing with Danglars before making danglars arugment and supporting him. You have no point and you contribute nothing. You cross your wires in an attempt to just disagree with Danglars.
On January 28 2018 08:10 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2018 07:24 Danglars wrote:
This forum isn't famous for a spectrum of ideological diversity. It's more the place where you accuse opponents of hating brown people and loving Trump. Utter hogwash. The fact that the majority of people here disagree with you doesn't make them all far leftists. Plenty of people hold plenty of different opinions, and for different reasons. I regularly find things I disagree on between myself and regular posters such as P6 or GH, even Kwark. The difference is I find them (largely) reasonable. If you feel like the world is out to get you, perhaps try examining the way you interact with people, or the positions you hold.
Out of two sentences that say nothing about the left you make your entire post about the left and how disagreeing with danglars makes everyone a far leftist. You then say you don't find anyone thats not on the left reasonable.
You end your post by saying if you feel the world is out to get your you should examine the way you interact with people or the positions you hold. You hold absolutely no irony in this statement despite being the one calling the other side unreasonable and "Irregular" despite admitting that people hold different opinions for different reasons.
Do you see the pattern? You barely take anything at all from the posts you're responding to and create entire narratives out of thin air to try and make arguments that no one is having. Its impossible to follow along enough to respond to it in any real way. Its good and has value for the thread so that you don't have to feel tired from following every post but at the end of the day its filler that neither of us are putting any effort into.
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On January 28 2018 10:59 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2018 08:15 Excludos wrote:On January 28 2018 08:10 NewSunshine wrote:On January 28 2018 07:24 Danglars wrote:
This forum isn't famous for a spectrum of ideological diversity. It's more the place where you accuse opponents of hating brown people and loving Trump. Utter hogwash. The fact that the majority of people here disagree with you doesn't make them all far leftists. Plenty of people hold plenty of different opinions, and for different reasons. I regularly find things I disagree on between myself and regular posters such as P6 or GH, even Kwark. The difference is I find them (largely) reasonable. If you feel like the world is out to get you, perhaps try examining the way you interact with people, or the positions you hold. Didn't this forum use to be pretty much 50-50 left/right before Trump? I think that speaks volumes in and of itself. Trump and the republican party just isn't reasonable any more. There is zero worth in there. It's an "opposition party" whose only values are to be opposed of the other party (and, as it turns out, to be opposed of any reason and intelligence). Also, as a quote has been going around states: "Everything is left when you're to the right of Mussolini" the forum has always been left-leaning iirc; though if you count just american posters i'm less sure, though it probably still was somewhat. it is true that the republicans have been getting crazier and crazier; and have gone full loco with trump, and this has afflicted many who post on that side (to varying degrees). also partisanship (plus people in general bein stupid) causes many right-leaning posters to defend other right-leaning posters even when they shouldn't be.
Kind of ironic, but ...whether you're left or right-leaning doesn't actually matter. Because this system will always cater for its owners, the rich fat cats. They don't care who wins the 'dog race' because every single dog, that's running on that track is actually running for them.
I'm the only one in my family who doesn't vote and whenever, they leave the house to 'place their bets'...
I remind them: "Whoever you've chosen won't matter, the house always wins!"
(edit: I used animal references, not because I loathe them, I love animals (I only hate politicians). Never understood the dog/ cat person thing though, both are awesome so why choose?  )
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On January 28 2018 11:22 thePunGun wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2018 10:59 zlefin wrote:On January 28 2018 08:15 Excludos wrote:On January 28 2018 08:10 NewSunshine wrote:On January 28 2018 07:24 Danglars wrote:
This forum isn't famous for a spectrum of ideological diversity. It's more the place where you accuse opponents of hating brown people and loving Trump. Utter hogwash. The fact that the majority of people here disagree with you doesn't make them all far leftists. Plenty of people hold plenty of different opinions, and for different reasons. I regularly find things I disagree on between myself and regular posters such as P6 or GH, even Kwark. The difference is I find them (largely) reasonable. If you feel like the world is out to get you, perhaps try examining the way you interact with people, or the positions you hold. Didn't this forum use to be pretty much 50-50 left/right before Trump? I think that speaks volumes in and of itself. Trump and the republican party just isn't reasonable any more. There is zero worth in there. It's an "opposition party" whose only values are to be opposed of the other party (and, as it turns out, to be opposed of any reason and intelligence). Also, as a quote has been going around states: "Everything is left when you're to the right of Mussolini" the forum has always been left-leaning iirc; though if you count just american posters i'm less sure, though it probably still was somewhat. it is true that the republicans have been getting crazier and crazier; and have gone full loco with trump, and this has afflicted many who post on that side (to varying degrees). also partisanship (plus people in general bein stupid) causes many right-leaning posters to defend other right-leaning posters even when they shouldn't be. Kind of ironic, but ...whether you're left or right-leaning doesn't actually matter. Because this system will always cater for its owners, the rich fat cats. They don't care who wins the 'dog race' because every single dog, that's running on that track is actually running for them. I'm the only one in my family who doesn't vote and whenever, they leave the house to 'place their bets'... I remind them: "Whoever you've chosen won't matter, the house always wins!"
not entirely wrong; but definitely not correct either. a common enough viewpoint to find though; I scoff at it as I do at all things. scoff!
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On January 28 2018 11:12 Leporello wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2018 10:59 zlefin wrote:On January 28 2018 08:15 Excludos wrote:On January 28 2018 08:10 NewSunshine wrote:On January 28 2018 07:24 Danglars wrote:
This forum isn't famous for a spectrum of ideological diversity. It's more the place where you accuse opponents of hating brown people and loving Trump. Utter hogwash. The fact that the majority of people here disagree with you doesn't make them all far leftists. Plenty of people hold plenty of different opinions, and for different reasons. I regularly find things I disagree on between myself and regular posters such as P6 or GH, even Kwark. The difference is I find them (largely) reasonable. If you feel like the world is out to get you, perhaps try examining the way you interact with people, or the positions you hold. Didn't this forum use to be pretty much 50-50 left/right before Trump? I think that speaks volumes in and of itself. Trump and the republican party just isn't reasonable any more. There is zero worth in there. It's an "opposition party" whose only values are to be opposed of the other party (and, as it turns out, to be opposed of any reason and intelligence). Also, as a quote has been going around states: "Everything is left when you're to the right of Mussolini" the forum has always been left-leaning iirc; though if you count just american posters i'm less sure, though it probably still was somewhat. it is true that the republicans have been getting crazier and crazier; and have gone full loco with trump, and this has afflicted many who post on that side (to varying degrees). also partisanship (plus people in general bein stupid) causes many right-leaning posters to defend other right-leaning posters even when they shouldn't be. It's hard for either side to be civil when one side is endorsing Trump, along with his assaults on the media, assaults on the federal justice system, assaults on decorum and decency. I'm not sure what Danglars thinks Trump is offering to America and the world that is worth the trade-off of what is without doubt the most childish and tyrannical human-being to ever become President. Republicans seem more interested in defending the childishness and tyranny, although they'll say it's because we're being so relentlessly unfair in criticizing him. So of course they're also the ones typically calling for civility, which is what people do when they're destroying normality. Anyone who looks at a timeline of Trump's actions and words as President can only be horrified. If you're not horrified, then you care about something that isn't America's well-being.
The game is that you ask for decency and civility when you're asking people to interact with people who are not trump because they aren't trump and trump doesn't define who they are. Then when people see them calling you a nazi and a tyrant and you're not acting like that or advocating for those things people get confused with you and you're the unreasonable one.
Its like good cop-trump cop.
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On January 28 2018 11:29 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2018 11:22 thePunGun wrote:On January 28 2018 10:59 zlefin wrote:On January 28 2018 08:15 Excludos wrote:On January 28 2018 08:10 NewSunshine wrote:On January 28 2018 07:24 Danglars wrote:
This forum isn't famous for a spectrum of ideological diversity. It's more the place where you accuse opponents of hating brown people and loving Trump. Utter hogwash. The fact that the majority of people here disagree with you doesn't make them all far leftists. Plenty of people hold plenty of different opinions, and for different reasons. I regularly find things I disagree on between myself and regular posters such as P6 or GH, even Kwark. The difference is I find them (largely) reasonable. If you feel like the world is out to get you, perhaps try examining the way you interact with people, or the positions you hold. Didn't this forum use to be pretty much 50-50 left/right before Trump? I think that speaks volumes in and of itself. Trump and the republican party just isn't reasonable any more. There is zero worth in there. It's an "opposition party" whose only values are to be opposed of the other party (and, as it turns out, to be opposed of any reason and intelligence). Also, as a quote has been going around states: "Everything is left when you're to the right of Mussolini" the forum has always been left-leaning iirc; though if you count just american posters i'm less sure, though it probably still was somewhat. it is true that the republicans have been getting crazier and crazier; and have gone full loco with trump, and this has afflicted many who post on that side (to varying degrees). also partisanship (plus people in general bein stupid) causes many right-leaning posters to defend other right-leaning posters even when they shouldn't be. Kind of ironic, but ...whether you're left or right-leaning doesn't actually matter. Because this system will always cater for its owners, the rich fat cats. They don't care who wins the 'dog race' because every single dog, that's running on that track is actually running for them. I'm the only one in my family who doesn't vote and whenever, they leave the house to 'place their bets'... I remind them: "Whoever you've chosen won't matter, the house always wins!" not entirely wrong; but definitely not correct either. a common enough viewpoint to find though; I scoff at it as I do at all things. scoff!
Well, scoffing is the cynics last resort, so I'm basically givin it all I've got.. 
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On January 28 2018 11:32 thePunGun wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2018 11:29 zlefin wrote:On January 28 2018 11:22 thePunGun wrote:On January 28 2018 10:59 zlefin wrote:On January 28 2018 08:15 Excludos wrote:On January 28 2018 08:10 NewSunshine wrote:On January 28 2018 07:24 Danglars wrote:
This forum isn't famous for a spectrum of ideological diversity. It's more the place where you accuse opponents of hating brown people and loving Trump. Utter hogwash. The fact that the majority of people here disagree with you doesn't make them all far leftists. Plenty of people hold plenty of different opinions, and for different reasons. I regularly find things I disagree on between myself and regular posters such as P6 or GH, even Kwark. The difference is I find them (largely) reasonable. If you feel like the world is out to get you, perhaps try examining the way you interact with people, or the positions you hold. Didn't this forum use to be pretty much 50-50 left/right before Trump? I think that speaks volumes in and of itself. Trump and the republican party just isn't reasonable any more. There is zero worth in there. It's an "opposition party" whose only values are to be opposed of the other party (and, as it turns out, to be opposed of any reason and intelligence). Also, as a quote has been going around states: "Everything is left when you're to the right of Mussolini" the forum has always been left-leaning iirc; though if you count just american posters i'm less sure, though it probably still was somewhat. it is true that the republicans have been getting crazier and crazier; and have gone full loco with trump, and this has afflicted many who post on that side (to varying degrees). also partisanship (plus people in general bein stupid) causes many right-leaning posters to defend other right-leaning posters even when they shouldn't be. Kind of ironic, but ...whether you're left or right-leaning doesn't actually matter. Because this system will always cater for its owners, the rich fat cats. They don't care who wins the 'dog race' because every single dog, that's running on that track is actually running for them. I'm the only one in my family who doesn't vote and whenever, they leave the house to 'place their bets'... I remind them: "Whoever you've chosen won't matter, the house always wins!" not entirely wrong; but definitely not correct either. a common enough viewpoint to find though; I scoff at it as I do at all things. scoff! Well, scoffing is the cynics last resort, so I'm basically givin it all I've got..
hmm, I feel I should be makin ga cynic/dog pun, but I can't come up with any that fit the situation.
at any rate; I assume you are already familiar with the flaws/counterpoints to your statement, as your stanc eis common enough that the counterpoints are well known as well.
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I used to be optimistic in my teens, in my twenties optimism turned into realism...Now in my thirties, I've realized that reality is something you have to rise above or you'll get run over.
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On January 28 2018 11:22 thePunGun wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2018 10:59 zlefin wrote:On January 28 2018 08:15 Excludos wrote:On January 28 2018 08:10 NewSunshine wrote:On January 28 2018 07:24 Danglars wrote:
This forum isn't famous for a spectrum of ideological diversity. It's more the place where you accuse opponents of hating brown people and loving Trump. Utter hogwash. The fact that the majority of people here disagree with you doesn't make them all far leftists. Plenty of people hold plenty of different opinions, and for different reasons. I regularly find things I disagree on between myself and regular posters such as P6 or GH, even Kwark. The difference is I find them (largely) reasonable. If you feel like the world is out to get you, perhaps try examining the way you interact with people, or the positions you hold. Didn't this forum use to be pretty much 50-50 left/right before Trump? I think that speaks volumes in and of itself. Trump and the republican party just isn't reasonable any more. There is zero worth in there. It's an "opposition party" whose only values are to be opposed of the other party (and, as it turns out, to be opposed of any reason and intelligence). Also, as a quote has been going around states: "Everything is left when you're to the right of Mussolini" the forum has always been left-leaning iirc; though if you count just american posters i'm less sure, though it probably still was somewhat. it is true that the republicans have been getting crazier and crazier; and have gone full loco with trump, and this has afflicted many who post on that side (to varying degrees). also partisanship (plus people in general bein stupid) causes many right-leaning posters to defend other right-leaning posters even when they shouldn't be. Kind of ironic, but ...whether you're left or right-leaning doesn't actually matter. Because this system will always cater for its owners, the rich fat cats. They don't care who wins the 'dog race' because every single dog, that's running on that track is actually running for them. I'm the only one in my family who doesn't vote and whenever, they leave the house to 'place their bets'... I remind them: "Whoever you've chosen won't matter, the house always wins!" (edit: I used animal references, not because I loathe them, I love animals (I only hate politicians). Never understood the dog/ cat person thing though, both are awesome so why choose? )
Unlike Zlefin I'm going to come out and say that this is entirely wrong.
Yes, the US political system is completely fucked, maybe beyond repair, due to its "donations" (Which everywhere else in the world would be called corruption), first past the post, gerrymandering and electoral college to name a few. It's a system which caters to the rich so they can get their way.
This does not(!) however mean that every party/president/senator is the same. There are wide differences, and some do actually try to fight for your interests along side those of his donors, to a varying degree. Some people do actually become politicians because they want to make a difference, and they are fighting their own system to attempt to fight for you. To pretend that Hillary would be the same as Trump is laughable.
With Hillary you might not have felt a huge difference in your daily life, much like with Obama, but there's a good chance she would have steered the country in the right direction in the long run while simultaneously catering to her own interests.
Trump on the other hand is hellbent on tearing the country apart. He gives no shits about your interests. He only cares about himself and how his rich friends view him, and he is willing to lie and attack every liberty you might think you have to do it. Even if you think Hillary would have been a bad president, you still should have voted for her as the lesser evil.
This "my vote doesn't matter anyways" is a common misconception I hear a lot, but you not voting is literally why Trump is president right now, and your life and those around you either is or will be actively worse because of it.
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So a terrorist training camp in Texas and little to no media coverage.
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EPT
