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On December 02 2017 05:48 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2017 05:37 mozoku wrote:
Except the dossier has been essentially confirmed to be mostly false. That's not investigation. Only you guys would be so blinded by partisanship that you can't see anything wrong with paying someone to make up a bunch of fake claims about your political enemies and release it to the public, and then call it an "investigation."
And then insist that you've actually been correctly crying wolf each time after that debacle. You've been duped by whatever fake news you have been getting your information from. There is hope for you though. You can change your information sources and become more well informed.
??? None of the claims that made that dossier noteworthy are confirmed to have been true, despite ungodly incentive to do so by every major news and intelligence organization. Yet somehow I'm the one brainwashed for concluding that that means the claims are unlikely to be true. I don't know what world you live in.
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On December 02 2017 06:03 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2017 05:58 mozoku wrote:On December 02 2017 05:38 KwarK wrote:On December 02 2017 05:21 mozoku wrote:On December 02 2017 05:16 KwarK wrote:On December 02 2017 05:13 mozoku wrote:On December 02 2017 05:00 KwarK wrote:On December 02 2017 04:45 mozoku wrote:
I take a very skeptical prior on any "bombs" concerning Trump-Russia. It feels like I've seen this movie 10 times by now. We'll see. ? The reason we've seen it 10 times is because there actually have already been a series of bombs. You don't get to accuse the other side of crying wolf when each time they cried wolf there was an actual wolf attacking the flock. That's not how crying wolf works. Yeah like that dossier right? That was a real dossier given to McCain from a British intelligence officer. We have no way of verifying the contents ourselves yet but yes, the dossier really happened. Trump Jr., Flynn, Sessions, Kushner, Pence, Page, Manafort, and Stone represent a good collection of wolves too. Yeah, except you left out the part that it was funded by the Clinton campaign (and the GOP before that) lol. Nice deflection "none of that stuff is real" "what about this list of stuff that is real" "yeah but what about the dossier" "the dossier is also real" "yeah, but Clinton" And of course no comment on Trump Jr., Flynn, Sessions, Kushner, Pence, Page, Manafort, and Stone. If you were a shepherd you'd have no sheep left by now. My bad, didn't know I was expected to bring up an itemized list of thirty presumptions of "This is the end for Trump this time!" only to be followed up by business as usual the next week. I figured you could put two and two together yourself. I'm at work, I'm not about to write you a novel. No one has ever said Trump will be gone next week. You're creating an extremely silly strawman. People have celebrated the walls closing in because there has been significant progress. Keep in mind Flynn was attending top level national security meetings earlier this year. You're acting as if nothing major has taken place.
Didn't this conversation start from Plansix basically bitching about how Trump isn't impeached yet lol?
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On December 02 2017 06:05 doomdonker wrote:
Just because the Republicans are spineless and the US political system is outdated and terrible compared to the majority of other Western capitalist nations when it comes to disposing a leader and getting legislation through doesn’t mean the dossier is fanfiction written by Chelsea Clinton at age 15.
The golden shower part looks like the genius of someone around age 15. Maybe even claiming a person traveled to Prague who could prove he didn't. Your comparison really hurts your point.
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On December 02 2017 06:06 mozoku wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2017 05:48 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On December 02 2017 05:37 mozoku wrote:
Except the dossier has been essentially confirmed to be mostly false. That's not investigation. Only you guys would be so blinded by partisanship that you can't see anything wrong with paying someone to make up a bunch of fake claims about your political enemies and release it to the public, and then call it an "investigation."
And then insist that you've actually been correctly crying wolf each time after that debacle. You've been duped by whatever fake news you have been getting your information from. There is hope for you though. You can change your information sources and become more well informed. ??? None of the claims that made that dossier noteworthy are confirmed to have been true, despite ungodly incentive to do so by every major news and intelligence organization. Yet somehow I'm the one brainwashed for concluding that that means the claims are unlikely to be true. I don't know what world you live in.
Today's tribal world, man. The left pretends it wants a show of valor for opposing Trump, your party's president, but really they want a blue bandana over your eyes rather than a red bandana. They're humorously bad at departing tribal politics to pick up allies.
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On December 02 2017 06:09 mozoku wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2017 06:03 Mohdoo wrote:On December 02 2017 05:58 mozoku wrote:On December 02 2017 05:38 KwarK wrote:On December 02 2017 05:21 mozoku wrote:On December 02 2017 05:16 KwarK wrote:On December 02 2017 05:13 mozoku wrote:On December 02 2017 05:00 KwarK wrote:On December 02 2017 04:45 mozoku wrote:
I take a very skeptical prior on any "bombs" concerning Trump-Russia. It feels like I've seen this movie 10 times by now. We'll see. ? The reason we've seen it 10 times is because there actually have already been a series of bombs. You don't get to accuse the other side of crying wolf when each time they cried wolf there was an actual wolf attacking the flock. That's not how crying wolf works. Yeah like that dossier right? That was a real dossier given to McCain from a British intelligence officer. We have no way of verifying the contents ourselves yet but yes, the dossier really happened. Trump Jr., Flynn, Sessions, Kushner, Pence, Page, Manafort, and Stone represent a good collection of wolves too. Yeah, except you left out the part that it was funded by the Clinton campaign (and the GOP before that) lol. Nice deflection "none of that stuff is real" "what about this list of stuff that is real" "yeah but what about the dossier" "the dossier is also real" "yeah, but Clinton" And of course no comment on Trump Jr., Flynn, Sessions, Kushner, Pence, Page, Manafort, and Stone. If you were a shepherd you'd have no sheep left by now. My bad, didn't know I was expected to bring up an itemized list of thirty presumptions of "This is the end for Trump this time!" only to be followed up by business as usual the next week. I figured you could put two and two together yourself. I'm at work, I'm not about to write you a novel. No one has ever said Trump will be gone next week. You're creating an extremely silly strawman. People have celebrated the walls closing in because there has been significant progress. Keep in mind Flynn was attending top level national security meetings earlier this year. You're acting as if nothing major has taken place. Didn't this conversation start from Plansix basically bitching about how Trump isn't impeached yet lol?
"Thinks" is not "wants".
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On December 02 2017 05:37 mozoku wrote:
Except the dossier has been essentially confirmed to be mostly false. That's not investigation. Only you guys would be so blinded by partisanship that you can't see anything wrong with paying someone to make up a bunch of fake claims about your political enemies and release it to the public, and then call it an "investigation."
And then insist that you've actually been correctly crying wolf each time after that debacle.
You are just objectively wrong, the worst kind of wrong to be. Like the things you are saying are literally provably false, and you keep saying them. At this point that's about as much as I've come to expect from republicans so I'm not really surprised or disappointed, just a bit sad.
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United States43643 Posts
I'm enjoying that mozuku's argument has gone from "there are no wolves" to "prove that everything I view as a cry of wolf was a wolf". It helps him ignore the fact that one of the wolves plead guilty earlier today.
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I dunno man, I think I like having the most powerful man not influenced by actual British neo-Nazis. But that's just me.
Now you're going to tell me that Trump's just retarded/joking/whatever, Britain First is just a "concerned" right wing group and it isn't important at all that he's watching or viewing neo-Nazi content.
On December 02 2017 06:10 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2017 06:05 doomdonker wrote:
Just because the Republicans are spineless and the US political system is outdated and terrible compared to the majority of other Western capitalist nations when it comes to disposing a leader and getting legislation through doesn’t mean the dossier is fanfiction written by Chelsea Clinton at age 15. The golden shower part looks like the genius of someone around age 15. Maybe even claiming a person traveled to Prague who could prove he didn't. Your comparison really hurts your point.
If one or two things being incorrect, despite a large amount of other claims being verifiable or very plausible, makes intelligence worthless, then we better scrap all intelligence then! Might as well scrap all meteorologists as well since they get parts of their reporting wrong too.
I don't know why people are playing this Russia limbo. If we dig back far enough, we've got the same people right now initially claiming that there was no Russia involvement, then little Russia involvement, then only Russian involvement with select few Trump campaign officials then now "but the dossier is fake anyway".
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So in regards to the Steele dossier, I'm under the impression that it's all allegations so far, nothing's been presented to the public yet? I'm looking over wiki and other google results and the gist of the dossier is:
- Russia has blackmail material on Trump and forcing him to cooperate (would this constitute as collusion then?)
- Meetings between Trump official and Russians
- Trump's personal attorney, Cohen, met with Russians in Prague
Am I missing anything else major?
Most of these points can't really be proven or confirmed as true or false afaik but there's an increasing amount of evidence towards the second point, culminating with Papadopoulos' guilty plea last month and Flynn's guilty plea today.
I'm curious as to what's been proven/disproven, from some of the adamant claims from posters in the past page.
Also, I assume this document that was the second hit on google is fake?
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On December 02 2017 02:41 Mohdoo wrote:
Comey's tweet is just amazing
I still remember the outrage on this forum when comey did reopen the Clinton investigations. Now he is a hero for the democrats,things can change so fast.
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On December 02 2017 05:12 mozoku wrote:
I'm not sure "spineless" is the word for not impeaching him before the official investigation has even made its findings public. Right now we have an admission of intent to collude from his son that was was essentially the result of blackmail from a leak. If the investigation confirms that there's indeed a compete case against Trump Sr and the GOP still doesn't move to remove him, then you can start credibly lambasting them.
I agree it's probably an impeachable offense once it's officially confirmed that Trump Sr was involved, but if this is your standard of evidence for impeachment then we might as well start voting for presidential replacements at midterms going forward. Just because impeachment is technically a political process doesn't we aren't better off applying some measure of legal rigor to the proceedings.
there's no shortage of other grounds to impeach Trump. he could be impeached on emolument clause violations any time really.
we can credibly lambast them now, because he should not have been president, and they put party and their own petty interests ahead of the good of the country, and continue to do so. that's a pretty good reason to lambast people. also that they willfully ignore corruption to again, put party (and mostly their own careers) over country; which is another good reason for lambasting.
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On December 02 2017 06:35 pmh wrote:I still remember the outrage on this forum when comey did reopen the Clinton investigations. Now he is a hero for the democrats,things can change so fast.
In light of context and time, well, yeah. As you said, "things change".
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On December 02 2017 05:53 Nevuk wrote:
well,that is somewhat good news at least. I don't think trump can afford to push tillerson out,he will lose a lot of support from republicans that are for now still willing to work with him.
Tillerson is there sort of to keep trump in check,as far as that is possible.
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United States43643 Posts
Looks like the tax vote will pass. A majority of middle class Americans are projected to see a tax increase over the next ten years while the deficit is projected to increase by an additional trillion dollars.
Good job America.
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On December 02 2017 06:40 KwarK wrote:
Looks like the tax vote will pass. A majority of middle class Americans are projected to see a tax increase over the next ten years while the deficit is projected to increase by an additional trillion dollars.
Good job America.
And then we elect a democrat in 2020 and it all changes, so i dunno. Shitty, yeah, but it's not like this tax plan will actually go that long.
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I hope the rich in this country are looking forward to having 90% taxes again
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does the tax plan have any abuseable special provisions wherein that wouldn't be a problem? the kind of thing where it only needs to be legal for a little while to take full advantage of? like a repatriating money for a pittance thing that lets them bring their profits into the US with almost no tax. they'd only need that to be up for a year to bring in the money, and if it gets fixed later they just wait fo rthe next chance to push something like that through.
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On December 02 2017 06:21 KwarK wrote:
I'm enjoying that mozuku's argument has gone from "there are no wolves" to "prove that everything I view as a cry of wolf was a wolf". It helps him ignore the fact that one of the wolves plead guilty earlier today.
You and I are defining "wolf" differently, if you somehow by now haven't realized that. I've maintained from the beginning that Trump is probably guilty.
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United States43643 Posts
Particularly egregious from my perspective are the employee educational benefit taxes and the university endowment taxes.
I get heavily discounted education provided by my employer. It helps make up for the meager wages and it encourages motivated individuals to work here while actively improving their skills. I suspect far fewer people will take advantage of the tuition benefits if they're confronted with a tax bill as if the full cost of the education was taxable income. Grad student positions are getting especially fucked because they make very little money, the discounted tuition is basically the only reason those positions even exist.
And taxing scholarship funds? Really? Who the fuck is that for?
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EPT
