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On March 13 2014 11:05 Nyxisto wrote:No you're not only saying he is wrong. You're literally saying Obama has overreached his constitutional rights several times in this thread. And he has not. The supreme court has decided that Obamacare is constitutional. You can yammer about it as long as you want, but law is not a matter of opinion. Show nested quote +What does "Celebrity-in-Chief" have to do with executive overreach? I hate Obamacare because it's an overreach and I'm disgusted with Obama because of his overreaches
I said Obama has overreached and that the Court's decision on the mandate was wrong. That's what I meant.
Everyone can disagree. Just ask Igne about the Heller decision. So let's drop that argument.
There have been other things pointed out in the thread in terms of overreach. It's not JUST obamacare. That final link actually listed some.
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On March 13 2014 10:35 Nyxisto wrote:
The law doesn't count when Introvert disagrees and it's about Obama(care), although the supreme court came to the conclusion it's constitutional. You know the guys who are actually paid to interpret the constitution and are the highest authorities on the topic.
Also just calling Obamacare a ripoff doesn't magically make it one.
to be fair, that attitude is pretty common in America.
Supporting the law, except when it's wrong.
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On March 13 2014 10:35 Nyxisto wrote:
The law doesn't count when Introvert disagrees and it's about Obama(care), although the supreme court came to the conclusion it's constitutional. You know the guys who are actually paid to interpret the constitution and are the highest authorities on the topic.
Also just calling Obamacare a ripoff doesn't magically make it one.
Yea...
As much as I agree that Introvert is consistently ridiculous in this thread, we gotta get one thing clear:
A group of un-elected, appointed-for-life idealist judges are NOT always correct on the law. This has been shown several times throughout U.S. history.
This is the same entity that has made ridiculous rulings all the way back to the Dread-Scott case up to and beyond Citizens United.
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On March 13 2014 11:59 Stratos_speAr wrote:
A group of un-elected, appointed-for-life idealist judges are NOT always correct on the law. This has been shown several times throughout U.S. history.
They could be wrong (although I'll put a little more weight on the opinion of the supreme court judges than on Introverts, no offense) but that doesn't mean Obama is overreaching. If he's acting within the law, it's not overreaching. Then go blame the supreme court and not Obama.
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On March 13 2014 02:27 Roe wrote:
When has american culture ever valued hard work? It's always been about innovating and creating new technology that reduces the amount of work we have to do...The business culture has always been about squeezing every penny and making things more efficient - not just doing your job and calling it a day. If you really value hard work you'd put a freeze on all technological and commercial progress.
Automation (or whatever) and valuing hard work are not mutually exclusive things. I won't speak for the country as a whole, but a protestant / puritan work ethic was part of new england culture back before the US was the US.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On March 13 2014 11:59 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2014 10:35 Nyxisto wrote:
The law doesn't count when Introvert disagrees and it's about Obama(care), although the supreme court came to the conclusion it's constitutional. You know the guys who are actually paid to interpret the constitution and are the highest authorities on the topic.
Also just calling Obamacare a ripoff doesn't magically make it one. Yea... As much as I agree that Introvert is consistently ridiculous in this thread, we gotta get one thing clear: A group of un-elected, appointed-for-life idealist judges are NOT always correct on the law. This has been shown several times throughout U.S. history. This is the same entity that has made ridiculous rulings all the way back to the Dread-Scott case up to and beyond Citizens United.
they may be incorrect and that's the whole content of constitutional law discussions, but they do make the law literally. that's basically the positivism point. it's a distinction between what the law is and what it should be, two discussions
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On March 13 2014 12:09 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2014 02:27 Roe wrote:
When has american culture ever valued hard work? It's always been about innovating and creating new technology that reduces the amount of work we have to do...The business culture has always been about squeezing every penny and making things more efficient - not just doing your job and calling it a day. If you really value hard work you'd put a freeze on all technological and commercial progress. Automation (or whatever) and valuing hard work are not mutually exclusive things. I won't speak for the country as a whole, but a protestant / puritan work ethic was part of new england culture back before the US was the US.
Yea, not only is the Protestant/Puritan work ethic well-documented throughout U.S. culture/history, but the average American works longer hours, earns less money, and gets less from the federal government than people in most other developed nations. The idea that Americans don't value hard work is absurd. Just because we value ingenuity doesn't mean we don't value hard work. Measuring "hard work" purely in terms of physical energy expended is pretty naive.
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On March 13 2014 12:10 oneofthem wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2014 11:59 Stratos_speAr wrote:On March 13 2014 10:35 Nyxisto wrote:
The law doesn't count when Introvert disagrees and it's about Obama(care), although the supreme court came to the conclusion it's constitutional. You know the guys who are actually paid to interpret the constitution and are the highest authorities on the topic.
Also just calling Obamacare a ripoff doesn't magically make it one. Yea... As much as I agree that Introvert is consistently ridiculous in this thread, we gotta get one thing clear: A group of un-elected, appointed-for-life idealist judges are NOT always correct on the law. This has been shown several times throughout U.S. history. This is the same entity that has made ridiculous rulings all the way back to the Dread-Scott case up to and beyond Citizens United. they may be incorrect and that's the whole content of constitutional law discussions, but they do make the law literally. that's basically the positivism point. it's a distinction between what the law is and what it should be, two discussions
Who's denying that? I already said they make law.
They could be wrong (although I'll put a little more weight on the opinion of the supreme court judges than on Introverts, no offense) but that doesn't mean Obama is overreaching. If he's acting within the law, it's not overreaching. Then go blame the supreme court and not Obama.
I'd place more weight on their opionion too. But that doesn't mean you dismiss other opinions, especially when the decisions are so close.
As much as I agree that Introvert is consistently ridiculous in this thread,
Is there a problem with my positions or my argument style? Just curious, lol. Only one of those things I can fix.
^there is some confusion regarding the question of 'who's to decide whether obama violated laws'
please don't argue stuff if you can't follow ur own argument
No one is confused about that. I acknowledged that they have that power (for better or for worse), but that they are often wrong.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
^there is some confusion regarding the question of 'who's to decide whether obama violated laws'
please don't argue stuff if you can't follow ur own argument
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On March 13 2014 12:11 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2014 12:09 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On March 13 2014 02:27 Roe wrote:
When has american culture ever valued hard work? It's always been about innovating and creating new technology that reduces the amount of work we have to do...The business culture has always been about squeezing every penny and making things more efficient - not just doing your job and calling it a day. If you really value hard work you'd put a freeze on all technological and commercial progress. Automation (or whatever) and valuing hard work are not mutually exclusive things. I won't speak for the country as a whole, but a protestant / puritan work ethic was part of new england culture back before the US was the US. Yea, not only is the Protestant/Puritan work ethic well-documented throughout U.S. culture/history, but the average American works longer hours, earns less money, and gets less from the federal government than people in most other developed nations. The idea that Americans don't value hard work is absurd. Just because we value ingenuity doesn't mean we don't value hard work. Measuring "hard work" purely in terms of physical energy expended is pretty naive.
US median income ranks high.
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On March 13 2014 12:53 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2014 12:11 Stratos_speAr wrote:On March 13 2014 12:09 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On March 13 2014 02:27 Roe wrote:
When has american culture ever valued hard work? It's always been about innovating and creating new technology that reduces the amount of work we have to do...The business culture has always been about squeezing every penny and making things more efficient - not just doing your job and calling it a day. If you really value hard work you'd put a freeze on all technological and commercial progress. Automation (or whatever) and valuing hard work are not mutually exclusive things. I won't speak for the country as a whole, but a protestant / puritan work ethic was part of new england culture back before the US was the US. Yea, not only is the Protestant/Puritan work ethic well-documented throughout U.S. culture/history, but the average American works longer hours, earns less money, and gets less from the federal government than people in most other developed nations. The idea that Americans don't value hard work is absurd. Just because we value ingenuity doesn't mean we don't value hard work. Measuring "hard work" purely in terms of physical energy expended is pretty naive. US median income ranks high.
Works harder, earns less money per productive hour (productivity * hours per work week)
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On March 13 2014 08:51 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2014 08:39 jellyjello wrote:On March 13 2014 08:31 Nyxisto wrote:
The daily show had a take on it not too long ago. One day Obama is weak and wears mom jeans and the next day he is emperor Obama who doesn't respect the constitution. Arguing against Obama that way is just another way of saying "blah, I hate Obama" Right, because no one should ever say anything bad about Obama. On a serious note, you do realize the difference between domestic and foreign policy, right? Ah I forgot, a true American president is supposed to not do anything at home and wage war on people on other continents. I'd like to hear more concretely were exactly Obama is violating anything at home, and what exactly he should do in the foreign policy department?
This is nothing but beating a dead horse. I can give you a list full of Obama's inefficiency in running a government, but I already know you won't listen. I've posted a scholarly article on Obama's foreign policy, or lack thereof, a few posts back. Here is the short version. Said something about his strategy of "leading from behind" is not working out. But please, don't let this stop you from singing praises about him.
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Tell me where in the Constitution it allows the president to alter or ignore portions of a law by fiat, and then you can bullshit about how Obama hasn't wiped his ass with the Constitution. And yes before someone bleats it up Bush did it too, it wasn't right then either.
Obamacare's constitutional because John Roberts is a pussy. The individual mandate that he'd ruled a month earlier was not a tax suddenly becomes a tax because otherwise he couldn't find Obamacare constitutional and if he didn't find Obamacare constitutional all the Movers and Shakers in the Beltway, on the Upper West Side and the West Coast were going to go apeshit on the Supreme Court. The weeks preceding the ruling were saturated with commentary about how if it wasn't upheld the Supreme Court would lose its legitimacy because obviously the government can force you to do X because. Rank, cowardly bullshit from Roberts but hey at least he didn't join the four fascists on the "liberal" wing who said the government can compel you to do whatever it wants if the government claims you not doing it has an impact on the national economy.
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On March 13 2014 13:07 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2014 12:53 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On March 13 2014 12:11 Stratos_speAr wrote:On March 13 2014 12:09 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On March 13 2014 02:27 Roe wrote:
When has american culture ever valued hard work? It's always been about innovating and creating new technology that reduces the amount of work we have to do...The business culture has always been about squeezing every penny and making things more efficient - not just doing your job and calling it a day. If you really value hard work you'd put a freeze on all technological and commercial progress. Automation (or whatever) and valuing hard work are not mutually exclusive things. I won't speak for the country as a whole, but a protestant / puritan work ethic was part of new england culture back before the US was the US. Yea, not only is the Protestant/Puritan work ethic well-documented throughout U.S. culture/history, but the average American works longer hours, earns less money, and gets less from the federal government than people in most other developed nations. The idea that Americans don't value hard work is absurd. Just because we value ingenuity doesn't mean we don't value hard work. Measuring "hard work" purely in terms of physical energy expended is pretty naive. US median income ranks high. Works harder, earns less money per productive hour (productivity * hours per work week)
US is only a bit above average in terms of length of workweek and proportion of population working.
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now four of the Supreme Court judges are fascists? Jesus Christ you sound like the Russian people from the Euromaidan thread.
Also the government can't force you to do whatever it wants, but yes, it can force you to do certain things, even in the US. (And actually every government does since the beginning of governments. I hope we don't need to start that discussion.)
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
if only you guys support a public option they wouldn't have to force you to get insurance. pls do so and fix the thing sooner
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On March 13 2014 14:01 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2014 13:07 IgnE wrote:On March 13 2014 12:53 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On March 13 2014 12:11 Stratos_speAr wrote:On March 13 2014 12:09 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On March 13 2014 02:27 Roe wrote:
When has american culture ever valued hard work? It's always been about innovating and creating new technology that reduces the amount of work we have to do...The business culture has always been about squeezing every penny and making things more efficient - not just doing your job and calling it a day. If you really value hard work you'd put a freeze on all technological and commercial progress. Automation (or whatever) and valuing hard work are not mutually exclusive things. I won't speak for the country as a whole, but a protestant / puritan work ethic was part of new england culture back before the US was the US. Yea, not only is the Protestant/Puritan work ethic well-documented throughout U.S. culture/history, but the average American works longer hours, earns less money, and gets less from the federal government than people in most other developed nations. The idea that Americans don't value hard work is absurd. Just because we value ingenuity doesn't mean we don't value hard work. Measuring "hard work" purely in terms of physical energy expended is pretty naive. US median income ranks high. Works harder, earns less money per productive hour (productivity * hours per work week) US is only a bit above average in terms of length of workweek and proportion of population working.
What does proportion of population working have to do with it? We are talking about the employed. Those lazy unemployed people don't count.
Americans work more than any other first world country.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
^more than japan? japan has always led the numbers last time i looked
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On March 13 2014 14:28 oneofthem wrote:
^more than japan? japan has always led the numbers last time i looked
And let's not forget about beloved South Korea.
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Those asians are just too good at working.
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EPT
