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On October 13 2017 02:49 Slydie wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2017 01:54 Plansix wrote:On October 13 2017 01:52 Slydie wrote:On October 13 2017 01:38 Plansix wrote:On October 13 2017 01:29 Rebs wrote:On October 13 2017 01:22 Plansix wrote:On October 13 2017 01:12 Furikawari wrote:On October 13 2017 01:05 Mohdoo wrote:
When both sides have a book that tells them they are 100% entitled to that land, best thing you can do is just pick whichever side aligns with you more strongly.
I remember when my mom described this situation to me when I was 12, I was like "why not just nuke both of them so we can move on" lmao >_< Yeah the situation there is a dead end, when I was a kid my father used to say WWIII would start there... You can't just pick a side, we're speaking of millions of people here that will be fucked, whatever side you chose. Those groups got along a lot better in the 1970s and 1980s. Things have escalated and we have hit the point where an entire generation has grown up and had kids under state of constant siege. The settlements have reach upwards of 600 thousand people, all who now have homes on that land. Israel has basically won and its just this protracted process of suffering or marginalization. Unless the global dynamic changes, the conflict is all but over. And that was the plan all along, run an open air prison. Keep building settlements and take over land, let the world call them illegal over and over again while no one actually does anything to stop it until its irreversible (which it pretty much is). Respond to the occasional matchstick with mass death from above + Show Spoiler +.(take away the odd 5 year olds bicycle and crush it because you think they stole it, not sure how smashing it in helps but hey, better than the kid keep it) GG no Re. But it does not overcome this flaw that it will take another two or three generations for the conflict to end. I'm not sure how many generations of EU and US citizens are going to keep the belief that Israel is the scrappy underdog in this fight. Maybe not my generation, but the next one might change their minds. It is the birthplace of Jesus, the home of the Jews, and a military stronghold in the arab world. Underdog or not today is almost irrelevant. We did not give a shit about that place for most of US history. There is every chance we can return to not giving a shit about Israel again in the next 30-40 years. It is a lot easier to not give a shit about Israel when there is no Israel to give a shit about.
We have found ways to not care about the fate of nations across the globe in this modern era. We could get there with Israel too. Never underestimate the power of America to not care about a country that is across an ocean.
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On October 13 2017 01:05 Mohdoo wrote:
When both sides have a book that tells them they are 100% entitled to that land, best thing you can do is just pick whichever side aligns with you more strongly.>_<
Do you have kids? Because that would make up for some truly shitty parenting.
What about "best way is to have a balanced approach and not let the stronger side fuck the other one over and over and over and over"?
Because your solution is a recipe for centuries of absolute disaster.
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Apparently we are using inmates to fight fires in California and paying them $1 an hour to do so. We are such a pile of trash.
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On October 13 2017 03:00 Plansix wrote:
Apparently we are using inmates to fight fires in California and paying them $1 an hour to do so. We are such a pile of trash.
Do you have a source for this? Its fucking disgusting if its true.
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On October 13 2017 03:01 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2017 03:00 Plansix wrote:
Apparently we are using inmates to fight fires in California and paying them $1 an hour to do so. We are such a pile of trash. Do you have a source for this? Its fucking disgusting if its true.
Here's a piece from earlier this year that focuses on the female inmate firefighters:
Shawna Lynn Jones climbed from the back of a red truck with ‘‘L.A. County Fire’’ printed on its side. Ten more women piled out after her, at a spot on the border of Agoura Hills and Malibu, in Southern California. They could see flames in the vicinity of Mulholland Highway, from a fire that had been burning for about an hour. Jones and her crew wore helmets and yellow Nomex fire-retardant suits; yellow handkerchiefs covered their mouths and necks. Each woman carried 50 pounds of equipment in her backpack: gloves, flares, food, full water bottles, safety and medical gear and an emergency shelter, in case they were surrounded by flames. As the ‘‘second saw,’’ Jones was one of two women who carried a chain saw with her. She was also one of California’s 250 or so female-inmate firefighters.
Jones worked side by side with Jessica Ornelas, the ‘‘second bucker,’’ who collected whatever wood Jones cut down. Together they were responsible for ‘‘setting the line,’’ which meant clearing potential fuel from a six-foot-wide stretch of ground between whatever was burning and the land they were trying to protect. If they did their job right, a fire might be contained. But any number of things could quickly go wrong — a slight wind shift, the fall of a burning tree — and the fire would jump the break.
‘‘This is what I get for wishing for live flames,’’ Jones said to Ornelas on the truck ride.
The Incarcerated Women Who Fight California’s Wildfires
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
It's unfortunate that Israel was founded where it was, though I don't know if there was any other place it could have been formed. But it is where it is, and there's certainly no changing that now. And if you want to ignore an officially-not-nuclear power, then that's your choice.
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On October 13 2017 03:01 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2017 03:00 Plansix wrote:
Apparently we are using inmates to fight fires in California and paying them $1 an hour to do so. We are such a pile of trash. Do you have a source for this? Its fucking disgusting if its true.
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/The-Female-Inmates-Fighting-Fires-in-California-450438783.html
About 3,800 inmates, both women and men, fight fires in California, making up about 13 percent of California’s firefighting force. The fire program saves taxpayers $124 million per year, according to the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation.
But it should say:
About 3,800 inmates, both women and men, fight fires in California, making up about 13 percent of California’s firefighting force. The fire program saves taxpayers $124 million per year by employing slave labor tactics, according to the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation.
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The North American Free Trade Agreement could be on the verge of disintegration after coming under sustained attack from Donald Trump, a longtime critic of the three-nation deal.
In comments made at the White House with Justin Trudeau, prime minister of Canada, ahead of the start of fourth round of talks, Trump warned it was “possible” that the US would drop out of the 1994 deal.
“I think Justin understands this, if we can’t make a deal, it’ll be terminated and that will be fine,” Trump said. “We have to protect our workers. So we’ll see what happens with Nafta, but I’ve been opposed to Nafta for a long time, in terms of the fairness of Nafta.”
Trudeau later said he was optimistic that an agreement would be reached. “Nafta has benefited millions of people and can benefit millions more,” Trudeau said, although he added that Nafta could use a “much-needed upgrade”.
Enrique Peña Nieto, Mexico’s president, has also called for the modernization of the 23-year-old deal. But Mexican leaders have also warned that talks must conclude early next year before their presidential election campaign gets under way.
If the deal falls apart, the United States, Canada and Mexico would go back to a system of low tariffs on imports. But some agricultural products would be slapped with with far higher duties, including a 25% hike on shipments of beef, 45% on turkey, 75% on chicken, potatoes and high fructose corn syrup sent to Mexico from the US.
“Let me be forceful and direct,” Tom Donohue, president of the US Chamber of Commerce, said earlier this week. “There are several poison pill proposals still on the table that could doom the entire deal.”
The Chamber estimates that about 14m US jobs depend on trade with Canada and Mexico, and more than $1bn in commerce is conducted daily across the southern and northern borders.
But US business groups have expressed grave concern over Trump’s threat to pull out. More than 310 state and local chambers of commerce sent a letter to the administration urging the United States to improve but not end the trilateral agreement that, they said, has contributed to $1.2tn annually in trade.
“We recognize that this agreement is a quarter-century old. It makes sense to modernize it,” said Glenn Hamer, president and CEO of the Arizona Chamber of Commerce. “But for the love of God don’t do any harm to something that has been so economically beneficial to states all across America.”
US proposals include limiting the number of federal government contracts that Mexican and Canadian companies can win, a provision that would cause the deal to automatically expire in five years unless all three countries vote to renew, and changes in how much of a product needs to be made in North America to come under Nafta protections.
Under current rules, at least 62% of the parts in a car sold in North America must come from the region to avoid being hit with taxes at the border. Under the US proposal, America would require more to be made in the country and less sourced from other members of the bloc.
But US union leaders, including representatives at the AFL-CIO and the United Steelworkers, have expressed support for the deal’s demise, a position shared by some Democrats.
Source
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On October 13 2017 03:05 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2017 03:01 Jockmcplop wrote:On October 13 2017 03:00 Plansix wrote:
Apparently we are using inmates to fight fires in California and paying them $1 an hour to do so. We are such a pile of trash. Do you have a source for this? Its fucking disgusting if its true. http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/The-Female-Inmates-Fighting-Fires-in-California-450438783.htmlShow nested quote +About 3,800 inmates, both women and men, fight fires in California, making up about 13 percent of California’s firefighting force. The fire program saves taxpayers $124 million per year, according to the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation. But it should say: Show nested quote +About 3,800 inmates, both women and men, fight fires in California, making up about 13 percent of California’s firefighting force. The fire program saves taxpayers $124 million per year by employing slave labor tactics, according to the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation.
This is awful. It would be awful even if the US justice system was fair or worked well at all, but it isn't and it doesn't.
Its a bit of a stretch maybe, but given the structural racial bias in law enforcement and justice in America this pretty much amounts to racist slavery, something which we assumed had been knocked on the head a while ago. Obviously this is a simplification but you could see it that way and its hard to argue against.
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So I had a friend tell me this, and while I don't care enough to disprove him since I'm a centrist and see both sides are total shit. Would any of you have something?
+ Show Spoiler +
"All the liberal media outlets practice a way more excessive amount of fake news than any conservative outlet out there, if you have proof that says otherwise, please show me."
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It is modern slavery. There's just no other way of naming this.
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On October 13 2017 03:11 ShoCkeyy wrote:So I had a friend tell me this, and while I don't care enough to disprove him since I'm a centrist and see both sides are total shit. Would any of you have something? + Show Spoiler +
"All the liberal media outlets practice a way more excessive amount of fake news than any conservative outlet out there, if you have proof that says otherwise, please show me."
It's a trap. In french we call that "inversion de la charge de la preuve", like all religious people like to practice (you know, "prove me that god doesnt exists").
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While it is modern slavery, would you rather be inside of a box for the rest of your life, or help your planet/city by fighting fires? And this has been going on for quite some time. I think the inmates actually prefer fighting the fires, while getting paid.
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I think the issue is they're only getting a single dollar an hour. If it were minimum wage or higher and they had the option to opt out it wouldn't be nearly so egregious.
BTW, this is a loophole in the 13th amendment - slavery in the US is still legal as long as the person is in prison.
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On October 13 2017 03:18 Nevuk wrote:
I think the issue is they're only getting a single dollar an hour. If it were minimum wage or higher and they had the option to opt out it wouldn't be nearly so egregious.
BTW, this is a loophole in the 13th amendment - slavery in the US is still legal as long as the person is in prison.
Yea but at least they're getting paid. It can easily be gruesome work with no pay. They don't have rights to pay when they're in prison apparently. https://www.hg.org/prisoner-rights-law.html
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On October 13 2017 03:05 LegalLord wrote:
It's unfortunate that Israel was founded where it was, though I don't know if there was any other place it could have been formed. But it is where it is, and there's certainly no changing that now. And if you want to ignore an officially-not-nuclear power, then that's your choice.
there were other places if the goal was merely to create a safe place (and you ignore the desire of some of the religious types who wanted to be in that particular area). such an other place would be in the middle of Canada.
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On October 13 2017 03:14 Furikawari wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2017 03:11 ShoCkeyy wrote:So I had a friend tell me this, and while I don't care enough to disprove him since I'm a centrist and see both sides are total shit. Would any of you have something? + Show Spoiler +
"All the liberal media outlets practice a way more excessive amount of fake news than any conservative outlet out there, if you have proof that says otherwise, please show me."
It's a trap. In french we call that "inversion de la charge de la preuve", like all religious people like to practice (you know, "prove me that god doesnt exists").
Thanks, I think I responded appropriately. He still challenged me, but I still responded well, and didn't take the bait.
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On October 13 2017 03:11 ShoCkeyy wrote:So I had a friend tell me this, and while I don't care enough to disprove him since I'm a centrist and see both sides are total shit. Would any of you have something? + Show Spoiler +
"All the liberal media outlets practice a way more excessive amount of fake news than any conservative outlet out there, if you have proof that says otherwise, please show me."
what sites/sources would he accep tas truth?
with someone spouting such utter garbage as that, I'd expect they both have no concept of what fake news is, and would dismiss any evidence as having come from a fake site.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On October 13 2017 03:11 ShoCkeyy wrote:So I had a friend tell me this, and while I don't care enough to disprove him since I'm a centrist and see both sides are total shit. Would any of you have something? + Show Spoiler +
"All the liberal media outlets practice a way more excessive amount of fake news than any conservative outlet out there, if you have proof that says otherwise, please show me."
No, the right-leaning media definitely does more straight up lying and fabrication than the left. I think plenty of fact-checking independent groups would say as much. Though only the center-left groups seem to peddle this holier-than-thou sudden concern about constitutional norms.
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On October 13 2017 03:11 ShoCkeyy wrote:So I had a friend tell me this, and while I don't care enough to disprove him since I'm a centrist and see both sides are total shit. Would any of you have something? + Show Spoiler +
"All the liberal media outlets practice a way more excessive amount of fake news than any conservative outlet out there, if you have proof that says otherwise, please show me."
Folks are right, it’s a trap. There is no way to quantify the amount of fake news, or establish what is a liberal outlet. Also it comes dangerously close to proving a negative, since you need to prove an excessive amount of false stories does not exist.
But the real response to him is: Please show your work.
He is making the claim, not you.
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EPT
