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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
The NFL had their most watched Sunday in years. Claiming this as a loss for them is pure denial.
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On September 26 2017 05:40 RealityIsKing wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 05:36 Mohdoo wrote:On September 26 2017 05:33 xDaunt wrote:And this statement from the Steelers QB, ladies and gentlemen, is why it is always a bad idea to politicize nationalism and patriotism in this country: I was unable to sleep last night and want to share my thoughts and feelings on our team’s decision to remain in the tunnel for the National Anthem yesterday. The idea was to be unified as a team when so much attention is paid to things dividing our country, but I wish we approached it differently. We did not want to appear divided on the sideline with some standing and some kneeling or sitting.
As a team, it was not a protest of the flag or the Anthem. I personally don’t believe the Anthem is ever the time to make any type of protest. For me, and many others on my team and around the league, it is a tribute to those who commit to serve and protect our country, current and past, especially the ones that made the ultimate sacrifice.
I appreciate the unique diversity in my team and throughout the league and completely support the call for social change and the pursuit of true equality. Moving forward, I hope standing for the Anthem shows solidarity as a nation, that we stand united in respect for the people on the front lines protecting our freedom and keeping us safe. God bless those men and women. Source. The NFL knows its fucked. Trump won. He knows it, and I think he's daring democrats to join the NFL players in protesting the national anthem. Can you be more specific as to how any of this proves or shows anything? I don't see what you are seeing. We can all agree that protesting flag/anthem is symbolically unpatriotic. Trump is daring DNC to join in to appear unpatriotic.
They aren't protesting the flag, do you understand that? And of course patriotism and nationalism are political issues - they're political stances.
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On September 26 2017 05:40 RealityIsKing wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 05:36 Mohdoo wrote:On September 26 2017 05:33 xDaunt wrote:And this statement from the Steelers QB, ladies and gentlemen, is why it is always a bad idea to politicize nationalism and patriotism in this country: I was unable to sleep last night and want to share my thoughts and feelings on our team’s decision to remain in the tunnel for the National Anthem yesterday. The idea was to be unified as a team when so much attention is paid to things dividing our country, but I wish we approached it differently. We did not want to appear divided on the sideline with some standing and some kneeling or sitting.
As a team, it was not a protest of the flag or the Anthem. I personally don’t believe the Anthem is ever the time to make any type of protest. For me, and many others on my team and around the league, it is a tribute to those who commit to serve and protect our country, current and past, especially the ones that made the ultimate sacrifice.
I appreciate the unique diversity in my team and throughout the league and completely support the call for social change and the pursuit of true equality. Moving forward, I hope standing for the Anthem shows solidarity as a nation, that we stand united in respect for the people on the front lines protecting our freedom and keeping us safe. God bless those men and women. Source. The NFL knows its fucked. Trump won. He knows it, and I think he's daring democrats to join the NFL players in protesting the national anthem. Can you be more specific as to how any of this proves or shows anything? I don't see what you are seeing. We can all agree that protesting flag/anthem is symbolically unpatriotic. Trump is daring DNC to join in to appear unpatriotic.
unpatriotic to whom? different people have different stances on what being patriotic and unpatriotic are.
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On September 26 2017 05:40 RealityIsKing wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 05:36 Mohdoo wrote:On September 26 2017 05:33 xDaunt wrote:And this statement from the Steelers QB, ladies and gentlemen, is why it is always a bad idea to politicize nationalism and patriotism in this country: I was unable to sleep last night and want to share my thoughts and feelings on our team’s decision to remain in the tunnel for the National Anthem yesterday. The idea was to be unified as a team when so much attention is paid to things dividing our country, but I wish we approached it differently. We did not want to appear divided on the sideline with some standing and some kneeling or sitting.
As a team, it was not a protest of the flag or the Anthem. I personally don’t believe the Anthem is ever the time to make any type of protest. For me, and many others on my team and around the league, it is a tribute to those who commit to serve and protect our country, current and past, especially the ones that made the ultimate sacrifice.
I appreciate the unique diversity in my team and throughout the league and completely support the call for social change and the pursuit of true equality. Moving forward, I hope standing for the Anthem shows solidarity as a nation, that we stand united in respect for the people on the front lines protecting our freedom and keeping us safe. God bless those men and women. Source. The NFL knows its fucked. Trump won. He knows it, and I think he's daring democrats to join the NFL players in protesting the national anthem. Can you be more specific as to how any of this proves or shows anything? I don't see what you are seeing. We can all agree that protesting flag/anthem is symbolically unpatriotic. Trump is daring DNC to join in to appear unpatriotic.
In your eyes, how does someone "protest a flag"? What does that even mean? When you read about people protesting a flag, what mental image comes to mind? What do you think they are against? How is that "against the flag"? I legitimately don't understand your thinking.
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Kind of shows the massive divide in ideology if xDaunt and RIK think "unpatriotic" is some huge discussion bomb.
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I now somehow wish one of these athletes woud burn a flag or do something actually anti-patriotic... Just to watch the backlash/the US burn.
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On September 26 2017 05:40 RealityIsKing wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 05:36 Mohdoo wrote:On September 26 2017 05:33 xDaunt wrote:And this statement from the Steelers QB, ladies and gentlemen, is why it is always a bad idea to politicize nationalism and patriotism in this country: I was unable to sleep last night and want to share my thoughts and feelings on our team’s decision to remain in the tunnel for the National Anthem yesterday. The idea was to be unified as a team when so much attention is paid to things dividing our country, but I wish we approached it differently. We did not want to appear divided on the sideline with some standing and some kneeling or sitting.
As a team, it was not a protest of the flag or the Anthem. I personally don’t believe the Anthem is ever the time to make any type of protest. For me, and many others on my team and around the league, it is a tribute to those who commit to serve and protect our country, current and past, especially the ones that made the ultimate sacrifice.
I appreciate the unique diversity in my team and throughout the league and completely support the call for social change and the pursuit of true equality. Moving forward, I hope standing for the Anthem shows solidarity as a nation, that we stand united in respect for the people on the front lines protecting our freedom and keeping us safe. God bless those men and women. Source. The NFL knows its fucked. Trump won. He knows it, and I think he's daring democrats to join the NFL players in protesting the national anthem. Can you be more specific as to how any of this proves or shows anything? I don't see what you are seeing. We can all agree that protesting flag/anthem is symbolically unpatriotic. Trump is daring DNC to join in to appear unpatriotic.
I'm sorry but its a free country and it is unpatriotic of you, or anyone else, to force your opinion of what and how someone is allowed to peacefully protest.
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On September 26 2017 05:36 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 05:33 xDaunt wrote:And this statement from the Steelers QB, ladies and gentlemen, is why it is always a bad idea to politicize nationalism and patriotism in this country: I was unable to sleep last night and want to share my thoughts and feelings on our team’s decision to remain in the tunnel for the National Anthem yesterday. The idea was to be unified as a team when so much attention is paid to things dividing our country, but I wish we approached it differently. We did not want to appear divided on the sideline with some standing and some kneeling or sitting.
As a team, it was not a protest of the flag or the Anthem. I personally don’t believe the Anthem is ever the time to make any type of protest. For me, and many others on my team and around the league, it is a tribute to those who commit to serve and protect our country, current and past, especially the ones that made the ultimate sacrifice.
I appreciate the unique diversity in my team and throughout the league and completely support the call for social change and the pursuit of true equality. Moving forward, I hope standing for the Anthem shows solidarity as a nation, that we stand united in respect for the people on the front lines protecting our freedom and keeping us safe. God bless those men and women. Source. The NFL knows its fucked. Trump won. He knows it, and I think he's daring democrats to join the NFL players in protesting the national anthem. Can you be more specific as to how any of this proves or shows anything? I don't see what you are seeing.
The Steelers are one of the teams that stayed in the locker room during the national anthem in protest to what Trump said (I know Ben says the motive was different in his statement, but let's get real). Only one of their players came out (and uncoincidentally, he now has the most popular jersey in the country). The backlash from Steelers fans (and from NFL fans) has been more than noticeable. Big Ben is seeing it, and clearly felt compelled to publish this statement with his regrets.
With a few words, Trump has routed the anthem protesters by making their actions a referendum on their patriotism instead of on the root issue of racial fairness. Yes, it's a dick a move on his part, but its effectiveness is undeniable. And in all fairness, the the protesters opened themselves up to it by it choosing the anthem as their point of protest in the first place.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On September 26 2017 05:45 Nevuk wrote:
The NFL had their most watched Sunday in years. Claiming this as a loss for them is pure denial.
I wonder if NYT, CNN, etc., who were so enamored with how Trump boosted their viewership are still on their high. Of course they get a huge boost from drama in the moment; people want to see what's up. But people quickly tire of that shit and move on with their lives.
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On September 26 2017 05:55 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 05:45 Nevuk wrote:
The NFL had their most watched Sunday in years. Claiming this as a loss for them is pure denial. I wonder if NYT, CNN, etc., who were so enamored with how Trump boosted their viewership are still on their high. Of course they get a huge boost from drama in the moment; people want to see what's up. But people quickly tire of that shit and move on with their lives.
If Trump tried to pick a fight with Fake Sports, I wonder which side his voters would pick. I'd bet Football.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On another note: remember the local Republican news sources that in an unprecedented move endorsed Hillary? They lost a lot of viewers for that. The viewer boost seems to be most prominent in cases where an already loyal fanbase is prepared to show even more loyalty to offset the popular decision they made in playing to their fans. If the fans don't like the current act it will probably end badly.
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On September 26 2017 05:40 RealityIsKing wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 05:36 Mohdoo wrote:On September 26 2017 05:33 xDaunt wrote:And this statement from the Steelers QB, ladies and gentlemen, is why it is always a bad idea to politicize nationalism and patriotism in this country: I was unable to sleep last night and want to share my thoughts and feelings on our team’s decision to remain in the tunnel for the National Anthem yesterday. The idea was to be unified as a team when so much attention is paid to things dividing our country, but I wish we approached it differently. We did not want to appear divided on the sideline with some standing and some kneeling or sitting.
As a team, it was not a protest of the flag or the Anthem. I personally don’t believe the Anthem is ever the time to make any type of protest. For me, and many others on my team and around the league, it is a tribute to those who commit to serve and protect our country, current and past, especially the ones that made the ultimate sacrifice.
I appreciate the unique diversity in my team and throughout the league and completely support the call for social change and the pursuit of true equality. Moving forward, I hope standing for the Anthem shows solidarity as a nation, that we stand united in respect for the people on the front lines protecting our freedom and keeping us safe. God bless those men and women. Source. The NFL knows its fucked. Trump won. He knows it, and I think he's daring democrats to join the NFL players in protesting the national anthem. Can you be more specific as to how any of this proves or shows anything? I don't see what you are seeing. We can all agree that protesting flag/anthem is symbolically unpatriotic. Trump is daring DNC to join in to appear unpatriotic.
Nope. It is the most patriotic thing you can do. This nation was founded on standing up to power through protest.
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On September 26 2017 06:02 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 05:40 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 26 2017 05:36 Mohdoo wrote:On September 26 2017 05:33 xDaunt wrote:And this statement from the Steelers QB, ladies and gentlemen, is why it is always a bad idea to politicize nationalism and patriotism in this country: I was unable to sleep last night and want to share my thoughts and feelings on our team’s decision to remain in the tunnel for the National Anthem yesterday. The idea was to be unified as a team when so much attention is paid to things dividing our country, but I wish we approached it differently. We did not want to appear divided on the sideline with some standing and some kneeling or sitting.
As a team, it was not a protest of the flag or the Anthem. I personally don’t believe the Anthem is ever the time to make any type of protest. For me, and many others on my team and around the league, it is a tribute to those who commit to serve and protect our country, current and past, especially the ones that made the ultimate sacrifice.
I appreciate the unique diversity in my team and throughout the league and completely support the call for social change and the pursuit of true equality. Moving forward, I hope standing for the Anthem shows solidarity as a nation, that we stand united in respect for the people on the front lines protecting our freedom and keeping us safe. God bless those men and women. Source. The NFL knows its fucked. Trump won. He knows it, and I think he's daring democrats to join the NFL players in protesting the national anthem. Can you be more specific as to how any of this proves or shows anything? I don't see what you are seeing. We can all agree that protesting flag/anthem is symbolically unpatriotic. Trump is daring DNC to join in to appear unpatriotic. Nope. It is the most patriotic thing you can do. This nation was founded on standing up to power through protest.
The most unpatriotic thing an American could do was dump tea into a harbour.
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On September 26 2017 06:01 LegalLord wrote:
On another note: remember the local Republican news sources that in an unprecedented move endorsed Hillary? They lost a lot of viewers for that. The viewer boost seems to be most prominent in cases where an already loyal fanbase is prepared to show even more loyalty to offset the popular decision they made in playing to their fans. If the fans don't like the current act it will probably end badly.
I remember those; it's too bad they got hurt for doing the right thing; and sad that people foolishly unsubscribed for that, ah the foolishness of humanity 
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On September 26 2017 05:55 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 05:36 Mohdoo wrote:On September 26 2017 05:33 xDaunt wrote:And this statement from the Steelers QB, ladies and gentlemen, is why it is always a bad idea to politicize nationalism and patriotism in this country: I was unable to sleep last night and want to share my thoughts and feelings on our team’s decision to remain in the tunnel for the National Anthem yesterday. The idea was to be unified as a team when so much attention is paid to things dividing our country, but I wish we approached it differently. We did not want to appear divided on the sideline with some standing and some kneeling or sitting.
As a team, it was not a protest of the flag or the Anthem. I personally don’t believe the Anthem is ever the time to make any type of protest. For me, and many others on my team and around the league, it is a tribute to those who commit to serve and protect our country, current and past, especially the ones that made the ultimate sacrifice.
I appreciate the unique diversity in my team and throughout the league and completely support the call for social change and the pursuit of true equality. Moving forward, I hope standing for the Anthem shows solidarity as a nation, that we stand united in respect for the people on the front lines protecting our freedom and keeping us safe. God bless those men and women. Source. The NFL knows its fucked. Trump won. He knows it, and I think he's daring democrats to join the NFL players in protesting the national anthem. Can you be more specific as to how any of this proves or shows anything? I don't see what you are seeing. The Steelers are one of the teams that stayed in the locker room during the national anthem in protest to what Trump said (I know Ben says the motive was different in his statement, but let's get real). Only one of their players came out (and uncoincidentally, he now has the most popular jersey in the country). The backlash from Steelers fans (and from NFL fans) has been more than noticeable. Big Ben is seeing it, and clearly felt compelled to publish this statement with his regrets. With a few words, Trump has routed the anthem protesters by making their actions a referendum on their patriotism instead of on the root issue of racial fairness. Yes, it's a dick a move on his part, but its effectiveness is undeniable. And in all fairness, the the protesters opened themselves up to it by it choosing the anthem as their point of protest in the first place.
omg. Why do you keep saying this nonsense? I'm at a loss.
EDIT: Also, no one shocked that lots of Pittsburgh fans are buying this "anti-flag/anti-anthem" nonsense.
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On September 26 2017 05:55 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 05:36 Mohdoo wrote:On September 26 2017 05:33 xDaunt wrote:And this statement from the Steelers QB, ladies and gentlemen, is why it is always a bad idea to politicize nationalism and patriotism in this country: I was unable to sleep last night and want to share my thoughts and feelings on our team’s decision to remain in the tunnel for the National Anthem yesterday. The idea was to be unified as a team when so much attention is paid to things dividing our country, but I wish we approached it differently. We did not want to appear divided on the sideline with some standing and some kneeling or sitting.
As a team, it was not a protest of the flag or the Anthem. I personally don’t believe the Anthem is ever the time to make any type of protest. For me, and many others on my team and around the league, it is a tribute to those who commit to serve and protect our country, current and past, especially the ones that made the ultimate sacrifice.
I appreciate the unique diversity in my team and throughout the league and completely support the call for social change and the pursuit of true equality. Moving forward, I hope standing for the Anthem shows solidarity as a nation, that we stand united in respect for the people on the front lines protecting our freedom and keeping us safe. God bless those men and women. Source. The NFL knows its fucked. Trump won. He knows it, and I think he's daring democrats to join the NFL players in protesting the national anthem. Can you be more specific as to how any of this proves or shows anything? I don't see what you are seeing. The Steelers are one of the teams that stayed in the locker room during the national anthem in protest to what Trump said (I know Ben says the motive was different in his statement, but let's get real). Only one of their players came out (and uncoincidentally, he now has the most popular jersey in the country). The backlash from Steelers fans (and from NFL fans) has been more than noticeable. Big Ben is seeing it, and clearly felt compelled to publish this statement with his regrets. With a few words, Trump has routed the anthem protesters by making their actions a referendum on their patriotism instead of on the root issue of racial fairness. Yes, it's a dick a move on his part, but its effectiveness is undeniable. And in all fairness, the the protesters opened themselves up to it by it choosing the anthem as their point of protest in the first place.
The cherry on top was that the protester of the protest, as it were, is a Hispanic American. This is a member of the group the liberal elite tells you must be most offended by who Trump is and what he does. He was the lone dissenter in registering this protest of Trump and racial injustice. Ben, to his credit, caught on to what crowd he doesn't want to be associated with. The kinds of people that think the flag and anthem are where you expose the country's racism. It's like the people who consider all forms of visible protest "a means to start the conversation on race" also happen to consider, "Fuck you!" a terrific start to conversations in general.
You don't want to tell America that patriotism and nationalism are the enemies of the new race war. Trump's antics will take back seat and he'll enjoy a mild win (until he messes it up again, I'm sure).
Front and center, brought to you by the crowd that also produced "Why you're a racist and what you can do about it" and "Conservatism is a cover for White Nationalism," we're now playing "This Country's Flag and Anthem are symbols of racial injustice to black athletes & allies." Never has anyone been so fortunate in his enemies than Donald Trump.
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On September 26 2017 06:23 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 05:55 xDaunt wrote:On September 26 2017 05:36 Mohdoo wrote:On September 26 2017 05:33 xDaunt wrote:And this statement from the Steelers QB, ladies and gentlemen, is why it is always a bad idea to politicize nationalism and patriotism in this country: I was unable to sleep last night and want to share my thoughts and feelings on our team’s decision to remain in the tunnel for the National Anthem yesterday. The idea was to be unified as a team when so much attention is paid to things dividing our country, but I wish we approached it differently. We did not want to appear divided on the sideline with some standing and some kneeling or sitting.
As a team, it was not a protest of the flag or the Anthem. I personally don’t believe the Anthem is ever the time to make any type of protest. For me, and many others on my team and around the league, it is a tribute to those who commit to serve and protect our country, current and past, especially the ones that made the ultimate sacrifice.
I appreciate the unique diversity in my team and throughout the league and completely support the call for social change and the pursuit of true equality. Moving forward, I hope standing for the Anthem shows solidarity as a nation, that we stand united in respect for the people on the front lines protecting our freedom and keeping us safe. God bless those men and women. Source. The NFL knows its fucked. Trump won. He knows it, and I think he's daring democrats to join the NFL players in protesting the national anthem. Can you be more specific as to how any of this proves or shows anything? I don't see what you are seeing. The Steelers are one of the teams that stayed in the locker room during the national anthem in protest to what Trump said (I know Ben says the motive was different in his statement, but let's get real). Only one of their players came out (and uncoincidentally, he now has the most popular jersey in the country). The backlash from Steelers fans (and from NFL fans) has been more than noticeable. Big Ben is seeing it, and clearly felt compelled to publish this statement with his regrets. With a few words, Trump has routed the anthem protesters by making their actions a referendum on their patriotism instead of on the root issue of racial fairness. Yes, it's a dick a move on his part, but its effectiveness is undeniable. And in all fairness, the the protesters opened themselves up to it by it choosing the anthem as their point of protest in the first place. The cherry on top was that the protester of the protest, as it were, is a Hispanic American. This is a member of the group the liberal elite tells you must be most offended by who Trump is and what he does. He was the lone dissenter in registering this protest of Trump and racial injustice. Ben, to his credit, caught on to what crowd he doesn't want to be associated with. The kinds of people that think the flag and anthem are where you expose the country's racism. It's like the people who consider all forms of visible protest "a means to start the conversation on race" also happen to consider, "Fuck you!" a terrific start to conversations in general. You don't want to tell America that patriotism and nationalism are the enemies of the new race war. Trump's antics will take back seat and he'll enjoy a mild win (until he messes it up again, I'm sure). Front and center, brought to you by the crowd that also produced "Why you're a racist and what you can do about it" and "Conservatism is a cover for White Nationalism," we're now playing "This Country's Flag and Anthem are symbols of racial injustice to black athletes & allies." Never has anyone been so fortunate in his enemies than Donald Trump.
Alright I'm out of this thread I can't take posts like this anymore lol
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On September 26 2017 06:23 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 05:55 xDaunt wrote:On September 26 2017 05:36 Mohdoo wrote:On September 26 2017 05:33 xDaunt wrote:And this statement from the Steelers QB, ladies and gentlemen, is why it is always a bad idea to politicize nationalism and patriotism in this country: I was unable to sleep last night and want to share my thoughts and feelings on our team’s decision to remain in the tunnel for the National Anthem yesterday. The idea was to be unified as a team when so much attention is paid to things dividing our country, but I wish we approached it differently. We did not want to appear divided on the sideline with some standing and some kneeling or sitting.
As a team, it was not a protest of the flag or the Anthem. I personally don’t believe the Anthem is ever the time to make any type of protest. For me, and many others on my team and around the league, it is a tribute to those who commit to serve and protect our country, current and past, especially the ones that made the ultimate sacrifice.
I appreciate the unique diversity in my team and throughout the league and completely support the call for social change and the pursuit of true equality. Moving forward, I hope standing for the Anthem shows solidarity as a nation, that we stand united in respect for the people on the front lines protecting our freedom and keeping us safe. God bless those men and women. Source. The NFL knows its fucked. Trump won. He knows it, and I think he's daring democrats to join the NFL players in protesting the national anthem. Can you be more specific as to how any of this proves or shows anything? I don't see what you are seeing. The Steelers are one of the teams that stayed in the locker room during the national anthem in protest to what Trump said (I know Ben says the motive was different in his statement, but let's get real). Only one of their players came out (and uncoincidentally, he now has the most popular jersey in the country). The backlash from Steelers fans (and from NFL fans) has been more than noticeable. Big Ben is seeing it, and clearly felt compelled to publish this statement with his regrets. With a few words, Trump has routed the anthem protesters by making their actions a referendum on their patriotism instead of on the root issue of racial fairness. Yes, it's a dick a move on his part, but its effectiveness is undeniable. And in all fairness, the the protesters opened themselves up to it by it choosing the anthem as their point of protest in the first place. The cherry on top was that the protester of the protest, as it were, is a Hispanic American. This is a member of the group the liberal elite tells you must be most offended by who Trump is and what he does. He was the lone dissenter in registering this protest of Trump and racial injustice. Ben, to his credit, caught on to what crowd he doesn't want to be associated with. The kinds of people that think the flag and anthem are where you expose the country's racism. It's like the people who consider all forms of visible protest "a means to start the conversation on race" also happen to consider, "Fuck you!" a terrific start to conversations in general.You don't want to tell America that patriotism and nationalism are the enemies of the new race war. Trump's antics will take back seat and he'll enjoy a mild win (until he messes it up again, I'm sure). Front and center, brought to you by the crowd that also produced "Why you're a racist and what you can do about it" and "Conservatism is a cover for White Nationalism," we're now playing "This Country's Flag and Anthem are symbols of racial injustice to black athletes & allies." Never has anyone been so fortunate in his enemies than Donald Trump.
The bold part is ahistorical.
The conversation started by saying "Hey you black people, you're our property now"
Since then it's mostly been "Hey can we have our rights that you promised us now?"
And America saying "Go Fuck Yourself"
SO please stop with this bullshit "they want to start with fuck you" nonsense. It's offensively ridiculous.
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Imagine having to pretend that the argument that "it's the wrong place to protest", coming from the people and the party who have defended the view that the protest is unfounded, is something other than a deflection.
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EPT
