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On February 16 2014 10:33 Nyxisto wrote:
Why exactly are there so many illegal people in the US? Are they just fleeing out of Mexico?
Yes. They pay fair sums of money to be transported across the border. They can work low skill jobs here under the table for next to nothing. It's why big business likes it. Mexico is in a really sucky place, it's violent and poor. And corrupt. They also know that once they are here, their chances of being deported are quite low. And some states even offer them driver's licences.
It sucks specifically because we put such a huge stigma against the way in which they came here. Why would they trust local authorities, try to vote, trust the community, and/or try to assimilate if they are being targeted to be shipped back to Mexico? Your logic is ass-backwards. They're not going to want to do anything for this country if they always have to live in fear that the country is going to send them back at any moment.
But we don't have any stigma against legal immigrants, we LOVE those who follow the law. If they are here legally then they don't have to worry about being deported, obviously.
But they are also poor because they don't assimilate and thus can't move up in society or the workplace.
And your logic fails not just because you confuse illegal with legal (or simply combine them) but because, despite how horribly they are treated here (apparently), they still come in droves away from their home country!
There is nothing stopping a legal immigrant from learning English and getting an education.
Hell, in California those aren't even barriers. Schools are open to all!
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Well but then it would make a lot of sense to legalize the illegal immigrants wouldn't it? As long as they're off the grid and out of the system they basically don't have any chance to participate.
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On February 16 2014 10:33 Nyxisto wrote:
Why exactly are there so many illegal people in the US? Are they just fleeing out of Mexico?
A lot of illegal immigrants in the US are people who overstayed visas, so they just liked the US and wanted to stay. From Mexico there are a significant portion of migrant workers that work on farms seasonally because traveling and working in the US makes them more money then in Mexico or Central/South America in general.
Everyone should note that like much of the country, CA has seen crime rates reduced, high school graduation rates increase and if you visit east Los Angeles (a huge Latino community) you will find almost everybody speaks English, fairly new buildings showing signs of economic growth and along with El Super and King Taco you can find a Taco Bell and Little Caesars Pizza.
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On February 16 2014 11:08 Nyxisto wrote:
Well but then it would make a lot of sense to legalize the illegal immigrants wouldn't it? As long as they're off the grid and out of the system they basically don't have any chance to participate.
That was done in 1986 by Reagan, who was promised by the democrats that they would pass a bill to secure the border "once and for all." So 2-3 million illegals were legalized (now we are talking upwards of 12-15 million. A moderate estimate). The democrats, of course, lied and didn't do it. So, here we are again. Most conservatives I know don't have a problem with amnesty so long as the human trafficking (essentially what it is) is put to an end. They just want this garbage to end.
Also, they would like us to promote assimilation, make them Americans, not Mexicans with voting rights.
A lot of illegal immigrants in the US are people who overstayed visas, so they just liked the US and wanted to stay. From Mexico there are a significant portion of migrant workers that work on farms seasonally because traveling and working in the US makes them more money then in Mexico or Central/South America in general.
Everyone should note that like much of the country, CA has seen crime rates reduced, high school graduation rates increase and if you visit east Los Angeles (a huge Latino community) you will find almost everybody speaks English, fairly new buildings showing signs of economic growth and along with El Super and King Taco you can find a Taco Bell and Little Caesars Pizza.
And some (if not most) places are nothing like that. Minorities still use more welfare programs than natural born citizens for one thing. And the crime rate is falling all over the country, so...and finally the % of them that speak English is still pretty low.
Also, notice how more English in a better, more successful community? They are Latinos, but they are adapting to where they are.
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On February 16 2014 11:11 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2014 11:08 Nyxisto wrote:
Well but then it would make a lot of sense to legalize the illegal immigrants wouldn't it? As long as they're off the grid and out of the system they basically don't have any chance to participate. That was done in 1986 by Reagan, who was promised by the democrats that they would pass a bill to secure the border "once and for all." So 2-3 million illegals were legalized (now we are talking upwards of 12-15 million. A moderate estimate). The democrats, of course, lied and didn't do it. So, here we are again. Most conservatives I know don't have a problem with amnesty so long as the human trafficking (essentially what it is) is put to an end. They just want this garbage to end. Also, they would like us to promote assimilation, make them Americans, not Mexicans with voting rights. Show nested quote +A lot of illegal immigrants in the US are people who overstayed visas, so they just liked the US and wanted to stay. From Mexico there are a significant portion of migrant workers that work on farms seasonally because traveling and working in the US makes them more money then in Mexico or Central/South America in general.
Everyone should note that like much of the country, CA has seen crime rates reduced, high school graduation rates increase and if you visit east Los Angeles (a huge Latino community) you will find almost everybody speaks English, fairly new buildings showing signs of economic growth and along with El Super and King Taco you can find a Taco Bell and Little Caesars Pizza. And some (if not most) places are nothing like that. Minorities still use more welfare programs than natural born citizens for one thing. And the crime rate is falling all over the country, so...and finally the % of them that speak English is still pretty low. Also, notice how more English in a better, more successful community? They are Latinos, but they are adapting to where they are.
Really, you know that? You just made up your mind that immigrants are causing tons of problems so you make up stuff to reinforce your beliefs.
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I love the lack of sources to these claims. You're just pulling anecdotes out of your ass as far as we know.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
Minorities still use more welfare programs than natural born citizens for one thing
i'd like to highlight this passage in our reading
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On February 16 2014 11:44 oneofthem wrote:Show nested quote +Minorities still use more welfare programs than natural born citizens for one thing i'd like to highlight this passage in our reading
Mainly, note how he conflates the term "minorities" to also mean "immigrants."
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
that's a charitable reading lol. he could have meant that minorities are not natural born citizens like it would read literally
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On February 16 2014 11:29 rod409 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2014 11:11 Introvert wrote:On February 16 2014 11:08 Nyxisto wrote:
Well but then it would make a lot of sense to legalize the illegal immigrants wouldn't it? As long as they're off the grid and out of the system they basically don't have any chance to participate. That was done in 1986 by Reagan, who was promised by the democrats that they would pass a bill to secure the border "once and for all." So 2-3 million illegals were legalized (now we are talking upwards of 12-15 million. A moderate estimate). The democrats, of course, lied and didn't do it. So, here we are again. Most conservatives I know don't have a problem with amnesty so long as the human trafficking (essentially what it is) is put to an end. They just want this garbage to end. Also, they would like us to promote assimilation, make them Americans, not Mexicans with voting rights. A lot of illegal immigrants in the US are people who overstayed visas, so they just liked the US and wanted to stay. From Mexico there are a significant portion of migrant workers that work on farms seasonally because traveling and working in the US makes them more money then in Mexico or Central/South America in general.
Everyone should note that like much of the country, CA has seen crime rates reduced, high school graduation rates increase and if you visit east Los Angeles (a huge Latino community) you will find almost everybody speaks English, fairly new buildings showing signs of economic growth and along with El Super and King Taco you can find a Taco Bell and Little Caesars Pizza. And some (if not most) places are nothing like that. Minorities still use more welfare programs than natural born citizens for one thing. And the crime rate is falling all over the country, so...and finally the % of them that speak English is still pretty low. Also, notice how more English in a better, more successful community? They are Latinos, but they are adapting to where they are. Show nested quote +Mainly, note how he conflates the term "minorities" to also mean "immigrants." Really, you know that? You just made up your mind that immigrants are causing tons of problems so you make up stuff to reinforce your beliefs.
I thought this was well known. The poorest areas of cities are those of immigrants. I guess I can go searching. (hell, I screwed up the quote. What is well known is the poverty among immigrants.)
About 85 percent of the foreign-born population spoke a language other than English at home, compared with about 10 percent of the native population
compared to:
At least 70 percent of the foreign-born population from Northern America, Oceania, Africa, and Europe spoke either only English at home or a language other than English at home and spoke English “very well,” compared with about 53 percent and 37 percent of the foreign-born population born in Asia and Latin America, respectively.
and:
About 9 out of 10 native born(87 percent) had some form of health insurance coverage, compared with just under 2 out of 3 foreign born (66 percent). Among those who had health insurance, 78 percent of natives and 75 percent of the foreign born were covered by a private
health insurance provider.
About 19 percent of the foreign born were living below the poverty level in the 12 months prior to being surveyed, compared with about 15 percent of the native born.
https://www.census.gov/prod/2012pubs/acs-19.pdf
http://www.pewhispanic.org/2011/09/28/childhood-poverty-among-hispanics-sets-record-leads-nation/
I'll try to find some stats on illegals specifically, but they are harder to find. These two above studies lumped the legal with the "undocumented."
Edit- Here: http://www.pewhispanic.org/2009/04/14/a-portrait-of-unauthorized-immigrants-in-the-united-states/
http://www.pewhispanic.org/2009/04/14/iv-social-and-economic-characteristics/
Poverty is higher among immigrants. Even more so among illegals (or at least they have less education). It's supported by stats as well as logic. Where are your sources?
I never said that they were "causing lots of problems." I SAID that they were in lots of trouble, and our current approach to immigration is making it worse. But go ahead, extrapolate some.
Mainly, note how he conflates the term "minorities" to also mean "immigrants."
My bad. In case anyone hasn't noticed, I often let the wording slip here and there- I am constantly making edits. But I know it's much easier to try and label me a racist nativist and then just ignore everything I said.
~25% of latinos in LA are below the poverty rate .
http://www.city-data.com/poverty/poverty-Los-Angeles-California.html
Edits: Adding more stats as I find them. Your turn.
Edits: MOAR SOURCES.
While many cities near the U.S.-Mexico border have poverty rates above that of the U.S. overall, it is not clear from the available data that the elevated rates can be attributed directly to illegal immigration.
The U.S. Census Bureau does not collect information on whether individuals are in the country legally.
It does, however, track whether people are foreign born and when they entered the country.
http://azstarnet.com/news/local/how-does-immigration-affect-poverty-rates/article_b15457e3-9b1b-5818-97b0-68c421908999.html
Today's immigrants differ greatly from historic immigrant populations. Prior to 1960, immigrants to the U.S. had education levels that were similar to those of the non-immigrant workforce and earned wages that were, on average, higher than those of non-immigrant workers. Since the mid-1960s, however, the education levels of new immigrants have plunged relative to non-immigrants; consequently, the average wages of immigrants are now well below those of the non-immigrant population. Recent immigrants increasingly occupy the low end of the U.S. socio-economic spectrum.[2]
http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2006/10/importing-poverty-immigration-and-poverty-in-the-united-states-a-book-of-charts
Using the 2010 Census Bureau statistics, the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) released a detailed report that correlates high levels of illegal/legal immigrant poverty as a contributing factor for the increase in welfare programs in the U.S.
http://www.examiner.com/article/legal-illegal-immigrants-struggle-use-welfare-to-make-up-the-difference
Two groups that are particularly prone to poverty, according to the CRS report, are foreign-born individuals who are not citizens (as opposed to naturalized immigrants) and families headed by single women.
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/terence-p-jeffrey/crs-likely-take-several-years-or-more-poverty-rates-recede
I don't just randomly guess when I say something. But when I am guessing, I make it clear.
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On February 16 2014 11:05 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2014 10:33 Nyxisto wrote:
Why exactly are there so many illegal people in the US? Are they just fleeing out of Mexico? But we don't have any stigma against legal immigrants, we LOVE those who follow the law. If they are here legally then they don't have to worry about being deported, obviously.
If you haven't worked USCIS or INS or at least helped fill out immigration paperwork for permanent residency then you have no ground to talk about how easy it is to not be deported. Pretty difficult for Mexican immigrant, planning 3 years ahead, to get a green card while already having a work visa for a doctoral chemistry program and a husband and child who are legal american citizens (by green card and birth, respectively).
Edit: Haven't you bitched about the possible horrors of inefficient bureaucracy with regards to the ACA before? Would be pretty rich if you criticized that problem (which doesn't exist yet) while saying that legal immigration is ezpz. DHS budget is out of control. By 2030 they will be using more paperwork than is available in the world's current wood pulp reserves.
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On February 16 2014 12:18 Jormundr wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2014 11:05 Introvert wrote:On February 16 2014 10:33 Nyxisto wrote:
Why exactly are there so many illegal people in the US? Are they just fleeing out of Mexico? But we don't have any stigma against legal immigrants, we LOVE those who follow the law. If they are here legally then they don't have to worry about being deported, obviously. If you haven't worked USCIS or INS or at least helped fill out immigration paperwork for permanent residency then you have no ground to talk about how easy it is to not be deported. Pretty difficult for Mexican immigrant, planning 3 years ahead, to get a green card while already having a work visa for a doctoral chemistry program and a husband and child who are legal american citizens (by green card and birth, respectively).
I mean if they are a citizen. I wasn't referring to Green cards or those with PR in particular.
Edit: Haven't you bitched about the possible horrors of inefficient bureaucracy with regards to the ACA before? Would be pretty rich if you criticized that problem (which doesn't exist yet) while saying that legal immigration is ezpz. DHS budget is out of control. By 2030 they will be using more paperwork than is available in the world's current wood pulp reserves.
I never said anything about legal immigration being easy, just that it's the right way to go about coming here. I know it's a pain in the rear end.
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On February 16 2014 11:53 Introvert wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 16 2014 11:29 rod409 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2014 11:11 Introvert wrote:On February 16 2014 11:08 Nyxisto wrote:
Well but then it would make a lot of sense to legalize the illegal immigrants wouldn't it? As long as they're off the grid and out of the system they basically don't have any chance to participate. That was done in 1986 by Reagan, who was promised by the democrats that they would pass a bill to secure the border "once and for all." So 2-3 million illegals were legalized (now we are talking upwards of 12-15 million. A moderate estimate). The democrats, of course, lied and didn't do it. So, here we are again. Most conservatives I know don't have a problem with amnesty so long as the human trafficking (essentially what it is) is put to an end. They just want this garbage to end. Also, they would like us to promote assimilation, make them Americans, not Mexicans with voting rights. A lot of illegal immigrants in the US are people who overstayed visas, so they just liked the US and wanted to stay. From Mexico there are a significant portion of migrant workers that work on farms seasonally because traveling and working in the US makes them more money then in Mexico or Central/South America in general.
Everyone should note that like much of the country, CA has seen crime rates reduced, high school graduation rates increase and if you visit east Los Angeles (a huge Latino community) you will find almost everybody speaks English, fairly new buildings showing signs of economic growth and along with El Super and King Taco you can find a Taco Bell and Little Caesars Pizza. And some (if not most) places are nothing like that. Minorities still use more welfare programs than natural born citizens for one thing. And the crime rate is falling all over the country, so...and finally the % of them that speak English is still pretty low. Also, notice how more English in a better, more successful community? They are Latinos, but they are adapting to where they are. Show nested quote +Mainly, note how he conflates the term "minorities" to also mean "immigrants." Really, you know that? You just made up your mind that immigrants are causing tons of problems so you make up stuff to reinforce your beliefs. I thought this was well known. The poorest areas of cities are those of immigrants. I guess I can go searching. About 85 percent of the foreign-born population spoke a language other than English at home, compared with about 10 percent of the native population compared to: At least 70 percent of the foreign-born population from Northern America, Oceania, Africa, and Europe spoke either only English at home or a language other than English at home and spoke English “very well,” compared with about 53 percent and 37 percent of the foreign-born population born in Asia and Latin America, respectively. and: About 9 out of 10 native born(87 percent) had some form of health insurance coverage, compared with just under 2 out of 3 foreign born (66 percent). Among those who had health insurance, 78 percent of natives and 75 percent of the foreign born were covered by a private
health insurance provider. About 19 percent of the foreign born were living below the poverty level in the 12 months prior to being surveyed, compared with about 15 percent of the native born. https://www.census.gov/prod/2012pubs/acs-19.pdfhttp://www.pewhispanic.org/2011/09/28/childhood-poverty-among-hispanics-sets-record-leads-nation/i'll try to find some stats on illegals specifically, but they are harder to find. These two above studies lumped the legal with the "undocumented." Here: http://www.pewhispanic.org/2009/04/14/a-portrait-of-unauthorized-immigrants-in-the-united-states/http://www.pewhispanic.org/2009/04/14/iv-social-and-economic-characteristics/Poverty is higher among immigrants. Even more so among illegals (or at least they have less education). It's supported by stats as well as logic. Where are your sources? I never said that they were "causing lots of problems." I SAID that they were in lots of trouble, and our current approach to immigration is making it worse. But go ahead, extrapolate some. Mainly, note how he conflates the term "minorities" to also mean "immigrants." My bad. In case anyone hasn't noticed, I often let the wording slip here and there- I am constantly making edits. But I know it's much easier to try and label me a racist nativist and then just ignore everything I said. ~25% of latinos in LA are below the poverty rate . http://www.city-data.com/poverty/poverty-Los-Angeles-California.htmlEdits: Adding more stats as I find them. Your turn. Edits: MOAR SOURCES. http://azstarnet.com/news/local/how-does-immigration-affect-poverty-rates/article_b15457e3-9b1b-5818-97b0-68c421908999.htmlToday's immigrants differ greatly from historic immigrant populations. Prior to 1960, immigrants to the U.S. had education levels that were similar to those of the non-immigrant workforce and earned wages that were, on average, higher than those of non-immigrant workers. Since the mid-1960s, however, the education levels of new immigrants have plunged relative to non-immigrants; consequently, the average wages of immigrants are now well below those of the non-immigrant population. Recent immigrants increasingly occupy the low end of the U.S. socio-economic spectrum.[2] http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2006/10/importing-poverty-immigration-and-poverty-in-the-united-states-a-book-of-chartsUsing the 2010 Census Bureau statistics, the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) released a detailed report that correlates high levels of illegal/legal immigrant poverty as a contributing factor for the increase in welfare programs in the U.S. http://www.examiner.com/article/legal-illegal-immigrants-struggle-use-welfare-to-make-up-the-difference
I never said immigrants are not poorer in general than the native population, that is true everywhere. I said things have been getting better for them, poverty is still lower after the recession than high points in the 80s and 90s.
![[image loading]](http://aspe.hhs.gov/hsp/12/povertyandincomeest/images/fig7.png)
source
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On February 16 2014 12:20 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2014 12:18 Jormundr wrote:On February 16 2014 11:05 Introvert wrote:On February 16 2014 10:33 Nyxisto wrote:
Why exactly are there so many illegal people in the US? Are they just fleeing out of Mexico? But we don't have any stigma against legal immigrants, we LOVE those who follow the law. If they are here legally then they don't have to worry about being deported, obviously. If you haven't worked USCIS or INS or at least helped fill out immigration paperwork for permanent residency then you have no ground to talk about how easy it is to not be deported. Pretty difficult for Mexican immigrant, planning 3 years ahead, to get a green card while already having a work visa for a doctoral chemistry program and a husband and child who are legal american citizens (by green card and birth, respectively). I mean if they are a citizen. I wasn't referring to Green cards or those with PR in particular.
When you need a two inch binder full of paperwork to apply for citizenship (which is more gambling than anything else) you would probably be much more likely to instead gamble on being able to sneak across the border and stay under the radar/find a spouse.
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On February 16 2014 12:26 rod409 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2014 11:53 Introvert wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 16 2014 11:29 rod409 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2014 11:11 Introvert wrote:On February 16 2014 11:08 Nyxisto wrote:
Well but then it would make a lot of sense to legalize the illegal immigrants wouldn't it? As long as they're off the grid and out of the system they basically don't have any chance to participate. That was done in 1986 by Reagan, who was promised by the democrats that they would pass a bill to secure the border "once and for all." So 2-3 million illegals were legalized (now we are talking upwards of 12-15 million. A moderate estimate). The democrats, of course, lied and didn't do it. So, here we are again. Most conservatives I know don't have a problem with amnesty so long as the human trafficking (essentially what it is) is put to an end. They just want this garbage to end. Also, they would like us to promote assimilation, make them Americans, not Mexicans with voting rights. A lot of illegal immigrants in the US are people who overstayed visas, so they just liked the US and wanted to stay. From Mexico there are a significant portion of migrant workers that work on farms seasonally because traveling and working in the US makes them more money then in Mexico or Central/South America in general.
Everyone should note that like much of the country, CA has seen crime rates reduced, high school graduation rates increase and if you visit east Los Angeles (a huge Latino community) you will find almost everybody speaks English, fairly new buildings showing signs of economic growth and along with El Super and King Taco you can find a Taco Bell and Little Caesars Pizza. And some (if not most) places are nothing like that. Minorities still use more welfare programs than natural born citizens for one thing. And the crime rate is falling all over the country, so...and finally the % of them that speak English is still pretty low. Also, notice how more English in a better, more successful community? They are Latinos, but they are adapting to where they are. Show nested quote +Mainly, note how he conflates the term "minorities" to also mean "immigrants." Really, you know that? You just made up your mind that immigrants are causing tons of problems so you make up stuff to reinforce your beliefs. I thought this was well known. The poorest areas of cities are those of immigrants. I guess I can go searching. About 85 percent of the foreign-born population spoke a language other than English at home, compared with about 10 percent of the native population compared to: At least 70 percent of the foreign-born population from Northern America, Oceania, Africa, and Europe spoke either only English at home or a language other than English at home and spoke English “very well,” compared with about 53 percent and 37 percent of the foreign-born population born in Asia and Latin America, respectively. and: About 9 out of 10 native born(87 percent) had some form of health insurance coverage, compared with just under 2 out of 3 foreign born (66 percent). Among those who had health insurance, 78 percent of natives and 75 percent of the foreign born were covered by a private
health insurance provider. About 19 percent of the foreign born were living below the poverty level in the 12 months prior to being surveyed, compared with about 15 percent of the native born. https://www.census.gov/prod/2012pubs/acs-19.pdfhttp://www.pewhispanic.org/2011/09/28/childhood-poverty-among-hispanics-sets-record-leads-nation/i'll try to find some stats on illegals specifically, but they are harder to find. These two above studies lumped the legal with the "undocumented." Here: http://www.pewhispanic.org/2009/04/14/a-portrait-of-unauthorized-immigrants-in-the-united-states/http://www.pewhispanic.org/2009/04/14/iv-social-and-economic-characteristics/Poverty is higher among immigrants. Even more so among illegals (or at least they have less education). It's supported by stats as well as logic. Where are your sources? I never said that they were "causing lots of problems." I SAID that they were in lots of trouble, and our current approach to immigration is making it worse. But go ahead, extrapolate some. Mainly, note how he conflates the term "minorities" to also mean "immigrants." My bad. In case anyone hasn't noticed, I often let the wording slip here and there- I am constantly making edits. But I know it's much easier to try and label me a racist nativist and then just ignore everything I said. ~25% of latinos in LA are below the poverty rate . http://www.city-data.com/poverty/poverty-Los-Angeles-California.htmlEdits: Adding more stats as I find them. Your turn. Edits: MOAR SOURCES. http://azstarnet.com/news/local/how-does-immigration-affect-poverty-rates/article_b15457e3-9b1b-5818-97b0-68c421908999.htmlToday's immigrants differ greatly from historic immigrant populations. Prior to 1960, immigrants to the U.S. had education levels that were similar to those of the non-immigrant workforce and earned wages that were, on average, higher than those of non-immigrant workers. Since the mid-1960s, however, the education levels of new immigrants have plunged relative to non-immigrants; consequently, the average wages of immigrants are now well below those of the non-immigrant population. Recent immigrants increasingly occupy the low end of the U.S. socio-economic spectrum.[2] http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2006/10/importing-poverty-immigration-and-poverty-in-the-united-states-a-book-of-chartsUsing the 2010 Census Bureau statistics, the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) released a detailed report that correlates high levels of illegal/legal immigrant poverty as a contributing factor for the increase in welfare programs in the U.S. http://www.examiner.com/article/legal-illegal-immigrants-struggle-use-welfare-to-make-up-the-difference I never said immigrants are not poorer in general than the native population, that is true everywhere. I said things have been getting better for them, poverty is still lower after the recession than high points in the 80s and 90s. source
It's following the economy. My point is that it sucks and encouraging this separation of cultures is doing nothing for them, it's a detriment. It's 5% from what it was at it's height, and ~3% from what is was in '79. I took you and the other guy to be doubting what I was saying generally, after what you posted on LA. The poverty rate has changed ~5% from the 90s?
As a side note, I wonder how legalization changed the incomes of all those people. It added many of them to the welfare rolls while potentially kicking them out of their jobs (since the now needed minimum wage). I'd be interested to see how that works out.
So what happens after the next wave comes in?
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About 85 percent of the foreign-born population spoke a language other than English at home, compared with about 10 percent of the native population
compared to:
At least 70 percent of the foreign-born population from Northern America, Oceania, Africa, and Europe spoke either only English at home or a language other than English at home and spoke English “very well,” compared with about 53 percent and 37 percent of the foreign-born population born in Asia and Latin America, respectively.
You made a claim that a low % of Latinos speak English and your sources are 85% of foreign born population speak a non-English language at home and that only 37% percent of foreign-born Latinos speak English "very well" at home.
Most people that are foreign born are not going to speak English "very well" if they did not learn it in their home country. But that doesn't mean they can't speak English at all and/or are trying to learn. Also their kids will learn English better than their parents so the next generation will improve.
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On February 16 2014 12:47 rod409 wrote:Show nested quote +About 85 percent of the foreign-born population spoke a language other than English at home, compared with about 10 percent of the native population compared to: Show nested quote + At least 70 percent of the foreign-born population from Northern America, Oceania, Africa, and Europe spoke either only English at home or a language other than English at home and spoke English “very well,” compared with about 53 percent and 37 percent of the foreign-born population born in Asia and Latin America, respectively. You made a claim that a low % of Latinos speak English and your sources are 85% of foreign born population speak a non-English language at home and that only 37% percent of foreign-born Latinos speak English "very well" at home. Most people that are foreign born are not going to speak English "very well" if they did not learn it in their home country. But that doesn't mean they can't speak English at all and/or are trying to learn. Also their kids will learn English better than their parents so the next generation will improve.
Almost unchanged from 2000.
https://www.census.gov/population/foreign/files/maps/Mex_Lang.pdf
https://www.census.gov/newsroom/pdf/cspan_fb_slides.pdf
And the graduation rates are abysmal.
http://www.pewhispanic.org/2013/01/29/statistical-portrait-of-the-foreign-born-population-in-the-united-states-2011/#23
My point is that things are not improving in any meaningful way, they are just fluctuating around, varying with the economy.
Perhaps when I said "getting worse" I was wrong, though it varies with the time frame.
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On February 16 2014 13:04 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2014 12:47 rod409 wrote:About 85 percent of the foreign-born population spoke a language other than English at home, compared with about 10 percent of the native population compared to: At least 70 percent of the foreign-born population from Northern America, Oceania, Africa, and Europe spoke either only English at home or a language other than English at home and spoke English “very well,” compared with about 53 percent and 37 percent of the foreign-born population born in Asia and Latin America, respectively. You made a claim that a low % of Latinos speak English and your sources are 85% of foreign born population speak a non-English language at home and that only 37% percent of foreign-born Latinos speak English "very well" at home. Most people that are foreign born are not going to speak English "very well" if they did not learn it in their home country. But that doesn't mean they can't speak English at all and/or are trying to learn. Also their kids will learn English better than their parents so the next generation will improve. Almost unchanged from 2000. https://www.census.gov/population/foreign/files/maps/Mex_Lang.pdfhttps://www.census.gov/newsroom/pdf/cspan_fb_slides.pdfAnd the graduation rates are abysmal. http://www.pewhispanic.org/2013/01/29/statistical-portrait-of-the-foreign-born-population-in-the-united-states-2011/#23My point is that things are not improving in any meaningful way, they are just fluctuating around, varying with the economy. Perhaps when I said "getting worse" I was wrong, though it varies with the time frame.
With regards to graduation rates:
A record seven-in-ten (69%) Hispanic high school graduates in the class of 2012 enrolled in college that fall, two percentage points higher than the rate (67%) among their white counterparts,1 according to a Pew Research Center analysis of new data from the U.S. Census Bureau.2
![[image loading]](http://www.pewhispanic.org/files/2013/05/PHC-2013-05-college-enrollment-01.png)
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That chart you show is foreign born that are 25 and older. Which shows what I am saying, the foreign born population has a harder time but their kids do better as you can tell when you look at the whole ethnic group.
I don't know what you are trying to show with English speaking at home for foreign born Mexicans. I don't expect them to speak English very well, I expect their kids to improve.
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On February 16 2014 13:26 rod409 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2014 13:04 Introvert wrote:On February 16 2014 12:47 rod409 wrote:About 85 percent of the foreign-born population spoke a language other than English at home, compared with about 10 percent of the native population compared to: At least 70 percent of the foreign-born population from Northern America, Oceania, Africa, and Europe spoke either only English at home or a language other than English at home and spoke English “very well,” compared with about 53 percent and 37 percent of the foreign-born population born in Asia and Latin America, respectively. You made a claim that a low % of Latinos speak English and your sources are 85% of foreign born population speak a non-English language at home and that only 37% percent of foreign-born Latinos speak English "very well" at home. Most people that are foreign born are not going to speak English "very well" if they did not learn it in their home country. But that doesn't mean they can't speak English at all and/or are trying to learn. Also their kids will learn English better than their parents so the next generation will improve. Almost unchanged from 2000. https://www.census.gov/population/foreign/files/maps/Mex_Lang.pdfhttps://www.census.gov/newsroom/pdf/cspan_fb_slides.pdfAnd the graduation rates are abysmal. http://www.pewhispanic.org/2013/01/29/statistical-portrait-of-the-foreign-born-population-in-the-united-states-2011/#23My point is that things are not improving in any meaningful way, they are just fluctuating around, varying with the economy. Perhaps when I said "getting worse" I was wrong, though it varies with the time frame. With regards to graduation rates: Show nested quote +A record seven-in-ten (69%) Hispanic high school graduates in the class of 2012 enrolled in college that fall, two percentage points higher than the rate (67%) among their white counterparts,1 according to a Pew Research Center analysis of new data from the U.S. Census Bureau.2 sourceThat chart you show is foreign born that are 25 and older. Which shows what I am saying, the foreign born population has a harder time but their kids do better as you can tell when you look at the whole ethnic group. I don't know what you are trying to show with English speaking at home for foreign born Mexicans. I don't expect them to speak English very well, I expect their kids to improve.
That's a very good statistic and makes your point quite well. I was, however, talking about immigrants. I do admit to not seeing that stat when it was released, it's quite encouraging. now to see if all that state money and favoritism can translate into degrees. Without the staggering debt. But that's not really the topic.
Almost everything is up over time (black graduation rates as well), though Latinos have made good gains recently. I would expect more and more citizen children to do better, as a higher and higher % of them are born here. Then they have to go through our mandatory education system 
But other statistics remain stagnant or slowed for people who immigrate here. And this is what causes the culture problem...the more generations removed you are the better off you will be. I'm arguing that encouraging this separatism (multiculturalism in the PC form) is harmful. The further removed from that you are, the better off you are, which is exactly what the stats show. But in the name of PC we refuse to promote them joining this society and system. If you cut off the flow of illegals and start encouraging assimilation, you get more and more of them in schools and being useful, informed members of society.
Thank you for your statistics sir, quite informative. Even if they weren't directly addressing what I was saying.
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A longtime friend of Chris Christie's was involved in the infamous George Washington Bridge lane closures, MSNBC's Steve Kornacki revealed on Sunday.
According to Kornacki, Thomas Michaels is a Port Authority police officer who grew up in the same town as the New Jersey Governor. He even coached Christie's son in hockey.
On the day of the traffic jam, Kornacki explains, Michaels was on site with David Wildstein, the Port Authority official who ordered the closures. He also reportedly sent text messages to the embattled Christie aide about the situation. It's not clear if Michaels was privy to any wrongdoing.
Michaels' name has been floated in connection to the scandal before. According to documents released last month, Michaels' commanding officer had emailed him about the lane closures the day before they occurred. Michaels replied, "Will this affect our normal rush hour operation?"
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EPT
