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But I highly doubt Mattis and the other generals are going to put lives in danger because trump got his feelings hurt.
After his latest comments fueling the fire, i very much doubt your conclusion.
His response was in response to them saying that they are drawing up plans to attack Guam. He wouldn't have said anything otherwise.
So escalating it makes you feel.. confident?
What?
Who gives a shit what this was in response in, all of trumps tweets were in response to Kim, that doesn't mean that they somehow are justified or not escalating further.
A general who doesn't want to go to war, doesn't escalate. It really is that simple.
edit: of course you can argue that he doesn't want (or the US) to look weak, but if a general is that petty, again, how does that make you confident? The world knows the balance of power between NK and the US. Dickwaving doesn't do shit, it doesn't deter Kim, nothing: it only makes your people look really, really incompetent. Not just trump.
edit2: of course, you can argue that i misunderstand everything entirely, then feel free to explain to me how Mattis comments somehow should make the world (and make no mistake, it's not just the US at stake here) sleep better. What reasoning is behind that comment, and what is the expected result supposed to be.
The comments themselves may seem to be escalating the tension even further. I can see your reasoning behind that. I'm arguing that he responded to NKs claim of planning to attack Guam. If you don't know who Mattis is, you should read up on him. He won't go to war unless we are attacked first. Much of this back and forth is between unhinged trump and unhinged kim. Mattis' comments are not out to provoke NK to go but you better believe that he chose his words carefully.
A general who doesn't want to go to war, doesn't escalate. Agreed. Mattis' didn't escalate. Was there a response from NK after he made his comments? Did anyone else denounce his words? Did anything come from him saying what he said? He didn't "echo" trump. He made his own statement to them after they called trumps bluff.
Mhm, so how will Trump see that statement? Curious.
Not to mention, i don't agree at all with your assessment. Remember how we made fun of Trump because of his statements? Mattis literally made the exact same ones in february. So we got two options here: either Trumps comments are completely fine and appropriate, or Mattis isn't a dot better than Trump.
Don't forget to answer the question how Trump would take Mattis statement.
It doesn't matter how trump takes the statements. trump isn't going to make the final decision when push comes to shove. There are too many competent people in the military who would defy any orders from trump if he wanted to preemptively strike NK. Mattis is a military genius when it's all said and done. Read up on who he is and you'll understand that his comments are not to prop trump up. I feel his statement carries more weight behind it.
I don't need to, i judge people as they come, especially soldiers as a former one myself. And not to mention, it certainly DOES matter how Trump takes those statements, don't be dense. If he feels encouraged because he feels like his administration is with him on that one, he'll get bolder. You don't fucking encourage a monkey with a nuclear button.
Sidenote, no. There's no option to "defy" a legal order from your president without being thrown out, court marshalled and replaced by someone who will. If you think that Mattis will pull his gun and put one to Trumps head, you watch WAY too many movies. Lets make that one crystal clear. If Trump orders, Jets will start. It's entirely in his powers to do so, legally - ignoring that order would actually be treason regardless of "well mate i totally don't agree with that tho".
trump's statements are not fine nor appropriate for his position. As with all leaders, diplomacy is the best course and trump doesn't know what that is. No one takes anything he says seriously, just like Canada or France. Congress has rebuked him and he's now pretty much isolated in the WH. He's withered away the power of the presidency so quickly, I doubt he's in control of much. He's not being briefed on anything of significant importance, as has been reported, because he has no attention span.
tl;dr Trump can twitter war all he wants. Nothing is going to happen.
Again. It literally is repeating what Mattis said half a year back already, except the fire and fury bullshit. It doesn't matter what you doubt either, he doesn't need congress or senate (you know, the entities trying to reign him in) to give an order.
I mean, i don't know. I do agree that there's no reason to panic, but you clearly should stop being delusional.
Oh and most importantly, if Trump isn't "ruling", .. who is?
I was stationed in Okinawa. There's 4 marine corps bases and 2 naval bases. One major air base (kadena). Yokosuka in mainland japan is the major naval base in Japan.
Ah, a fellow soldier. That makes me understand you even less, and i promise you that most of the US soldiers i've met on tour would not share your opinion.
Your last part has me confused. What did you not understand about my listing of the bases on Okinawa? I've literally been to them all. I gave you the major ones.
My last part had nothing to do with your listing of the bases, not entirely sure what you're on about?
And yes, you can defy the order. There a a myriad of different reasons but Google gives me this:
Did you watch that video? Because you're repeating what i just told you. You in the US get the same training in that regard as i did, and that is, you're allowed, or rather required, to reject any unlawful order. A conventional strike on NK is not unlawful, it's entirely in Trumps power to do so, just as bush and obama did. If you reject a lawful order, you're committing treason. And you should know that.
I'm not saying there will be a military coup if trump orders an attack. Just like his transgender ban he debuted on twitter. No one with any sense will follow what he says. Mattis simply stated, "If you feel froggy, leap." I don't get how you don't understand that. This is a president that has no sense of duty to the nation or anyone besides himself. No one will follow him into battle unless Mattis or a general tells them to. And even then, you can be sure all other efforts have been explored to the fullest.
I agree on your Trump-assessment, but again, Mattis can't just say no. Morally he might feel obligated, sure. Then he resigns, someone else is gonna do it. You seem to miss the fact that you have laws in the US that also are applied to soldiers, general or not. You can disagree all you want (or Mattis for that matter), you can not reject a lawful order. You can argue that Trump is a fucking moron (and man would i agree), but he still is the elected president of your country regardless of how retarded he is (or how retarded it was to elect him, it's not like this wasn't crystal clear from the beginning and in fact called here, literally this situation). Your entire country is based on those principles. If you betray them, and certainly you could: what can of worms are you opening then?
Roger Stone has a massive tattoo of Nixon's face covering his back.
Not sure if joking or real. oO
A conventional strike or declaration of war is different and I agree it would be difficult for the generals to say no. But I still hold firm that nothing is going to happen if he orders them to. There is nothing lawful about him setting out to show NK his dick is bigger, conventional or otherwise and I really don't think Mattis or the generals would do that. As with the transgender issue, they'll issue a statement along the lines of "We are aware of the president's comments and the issue is being further investigated to find the best possible solution." And then they'll go on about their business.
About not following your last part, since you had it quoted, I thought you were making a comment on that. FYI, I was a Marine, not a soldier. :p
But I highly doubt Mattis and the other generals are going to put lives in danger because trump got his feelings hurt.
After his latest comments fueling the fire, i very much doubt your conclusion.
His response was in response to them saying that they are drawing up plans to attack Guam. He wouldn't have said anything otherwise.
So escalating it makes you feel.. confident?
What?
Who gives a shit what this was in response in, all of trumps tweets were in response to Kim, that doesn't mean that they somehow are justified or not escalating further.
A general who doesn't want to go to war, doesn't escalate. It really is that simple.
edit: of course you can argue that he doesn't want (or the US) to look weak, but if a general is that petty, again, how does that make you confident? The world knows the balance of power between NK and the US. Dickwaving doesn't do shit, it doesn't deter Kim, nothing: it only makes your people look really, really incompetent. Not just trump.
edit2: of course, you can argue that i misunderstand everything entirely, then feel free to explain to me how Mattis comments somehow should make the world (and make no mistake, it's not just the US at stake here) sleep better. What reasoning is behind that comment, and what is the expected result supposed to be.
The comments themselves may seem to be escalating the tension even further. I can see your reasoning behind that. I'm arguing that he responded to NKs claim of planning to attack Guam. If you don't know who Mattis is, you should read up on him. He won't go to war unless we are attacked first. Much of this back and forth is between unhinged trump and unhinged kim. Mattis' comments are not out to provoke NK to go but you better believe that he chose his words carefully.
A general who doesn't want to go to war, doesn't escalate. Agreed. Mattis' didn't escalate. Was there a response from NK after he made his comments? Did anyone else denounce his words? Did anything come from him saying what he said? He didn't "echo" trump. He made his own statement to them after they called trumps bluff.
Mhm, so how will Trump see that statement? Curious.
Not to mention, i don't agree at all with your assessment. Remember how we made fun of Trump because of his statements? Mattis literally made the exact same ones in february. So we got two options here: either Trumps comments are completely fine and appropriate, or Mattis isn't a dot better than Trump.
Don't forget to answer the question how Trump would take Mattis statement.
It doesn't matter how trump takes the statements. trump isn't going to make the final decision when push comes to shove. There are too many competent people in the military who would defy any orders from trump if he wanted to preemptively strike NK. Mattis is a military genius when it's all said and done. Read up on who he is and you'll understand that his comments are not to prop trump up. I feel his statement carries more weight behind it.
I don't need to, i judge people as they come, especially soldiers as a former one myself. And not to mention, it certainly DOES matter how Trump takes those statements, don't be dense. If he feels encouraged because he feels like his administration is with him on that one, he'll get bolder. You don't fucking encourage a monkey with a nuclear button.
Sidenote, no. There's no option to "defy" a legal order from your president without being thrown out, court marshalled and replaced by someone who will. If you think that Mattis will pull his gun and put one to Trumps head, you watch WAY too many movies. Lets make that one crystal clear. If Trump orders, Jets will start. It's entirely in his powers to do so, legally - ignoring that order would actually be treason regardless of "well mate i totally don't agree with that tho".
trump's statements are not fine nor appropriate for his position. As with all leaders, diplomacy is the best course and trump doesn't know what that is. No one takes anything he says seriously, just like Canada or France. Congress has rebuked him and he's now pretty much isolated in the WH. He's withered away the power of the presidency so quickly, I doubt he's in control of much. He's not being briefed on anything of significant importance, as has been reported, because he has no attention span.
tl;dr Trump can twitter war all he wants. Nothing is going to happen.
Again. It literally is repeating what Mattis said half a year back already, except the fire and fury bullshit. It doesn't matter what you doubt either, he doesn't need congress or senate (you know, the entities trying to reign him in) to give an order.
I mean, i don't know. I do agree that there's no reason to panic, but you clearly should stop being delusional.
Oh and most importantly, if Trump isn't "ruling", .. who is?
I was stationed in Okinawa. There's 4 marine corps bases and 2 naval bases. One major air base (kadena). Yokosuka in mainland japan is the major naval base in Japan.
Ah, a fellow soldier. That makes me understand you even less, and i promise you that most of the US soldiers i've met on tour would not share your opinion.
Your last part has me confused. What did you not understand about my listing of the bases on Okinawa? I've literally been to them all. I gave you the major ones.
My last part had nothing to do with your listing of the bases, not entirely sure what you're on about?
Did you watch that video? Because you're repeating what i just told you. You in the US get the same training in that regard as i did, and that is, you're allowed, or rather required, to reject any unlawful order. A conventional strike on NK is not unlawful, it's entirely in Trumps power to do so, just as bush and obama did. If you reject a lawful order, you're committing treason. And you should know that.
I'm not saying there will be a military coup if trump orders an attack. Just like his transgender ban he debuted on twitter. No one with any sense will follow what he says. Mattis simply stated, "If you feel froggy, leap." I don't get how you don't understand that. This is a president that has no sense of duty to the nation or anyone besides himself. No one will follow him into battle unless Mattis or a general tells them to. And even then, you can be sure all other efforts have been explored to the fullest.
I agree on your Trump-assessment, but again, Mattis can't just say no. Morally he might feel obligated, sure. Then he resigns, someone else is gonna do it. You seem to miss the fact that you have laws in the US that also are applied to soldiers, general or not. You can disagree all you want (or Mattis for that matter), you can not reject a lawful order. You can argue that Trump is a fucking moron (and man would i agree), but he still is the elected president of your country regardless of how retarded he is. Your entire country is based on those principles. If you betray them, and certainly you could: what can of worms are you opening then?
Roger Stone has a massive tattoo of Nixon's face covering his back.
Not sure if joking or real. oO
I think that no one in the military high command would obey an order to launch a nuclear first strike. A conventional first strike, on the other hand.... I really fear that Trump will order an attack on North Korea with conventional forces and the response from the DPRK will lead to the 2nd Korean War. That's a million dead, at least, and if the draft is reinstituted I might very well be one of them.
I am very serious about the tattoo. You can look it up, it's common knowledge, not some fringe conspiracy theory. Roger Stone bragged on Twitter about having connections to Assange and Guccifer 2.0 during the election, so I would be very surprised if he hadn't been subpoenaed. Furthermore, I think it's possible he may have done something illegal. Ergo, his anger towards Mueller is entirely unsurprising but still quite fun to watch.
After his latest comments fueling the fire, i very much doubt your conclusion.
His response was in response to them saying that they are drawing up plans to attack Guam. He wouldn't have said anything otherwise.
So escalating it makes you feel.. confident?
What?
Who gives a shit what this was in response in, all of trumps tweets were in response to Kim, that doesn't mean that they somehow are justified or not escalating further.
A general who doesn't want to go to war, doesn't escalate. It really is that simple.
edit: of course you can argue that he doesn't want (or the US) to look weak, but if a general is that petty, again, how does that make you confident? The world knows the balance of power between NK and the US. Dickwaving doesn't do shit, it doesn't deter Kim, nothing: it only makes your people look really, really incompetent. Not just trump.
edit2: of course, you can argue that i misunderstand everything entirely, then feel free to explain to me how Mattis comments somehow should make the world (and make no mistake, it's not just the US at stake here) sleep better. What reasoning is behind that comment, and what is the expected result supposed to be.
The comments themselves may seem to be escalating the tension even further. I can see your reasoning behind that. I'm arguing that he responded to NKs claim of planning to attack Guam. If you don't know who Mattis is, you should read up on him. He won't go to war unless we are attacked first. Much of this back and forth is between unhinged trump and unhinged kim. Mattis' comments are not out to provoke NK to go but you better believe that he chose his words carefully.
A general who doesn't want to go to war, doesn't escalate. Agreed. Mattis' didn't escalate. Was there a response from NK after he made his comments? Did anyone else denounce his words? Did anything come from him saying what he said? He didn't "echo" trump. He made his own statement to them after they called trumps bluff.
Mhm, so how will Trump see that statement? Curious.
Not to mention, i don't agree at all with your assessment. Remember how we made fun of Trump because of his statements? Mattis literally made the exact same ones in february. So we got two options here: either Trumps comments are completely fine and appropriate, or Mattis isn't a dot better than Trump.
Don't forget to answer the question how Trump would take Mattis statement.
It doesn't matter how trump takes the statements. trump isn't going to make the final decision when push comes to shove. There are too many competent people in the military who would defy any orders from trump if he wanted to preemptively strike NK. Mattis is a military genius when it's all said and done. Read up on who he is and you'll understand that his comments are not to prop trump up. I feel his statement carries more weight behind it.
I don't need to, i judge people as they come, especially soldiers as a former one myself. And not to mention, it certainly DOES matter how Trump takes those statements, don't be dense. If he feels encouraged because he feels like his administration is with him on that one, he'll get bolder. You don't fucking encourage a monkey with a nuclear button.
Sidenote, no. There's no option to "defy" a legal order from your president without being thrown out, court marshalled and replaced by someone who will. If you think that Mattis will pull his gun and put one to Trumps head, you watch WAY too many movies. Lets make that one crystal clear. If Trump orders, Jets will start. It's entirely in his powers to do so, legally - ignoring that order would actually be treason regardless of "well mate i totally don't agree with that tho".
trump's statements are not fine nor appropriate for his position. As with all leaders, diplomacy is the best course and trump doesn't know what that is. No one takes anything he says seriously, just like Canada or France. Congress has rebuked him and he's now pretty much isolated in the WH. He's withered away the power of the presidency so quickly, I doubt he's in control of much. He's not being briefed on anything of significant importance, as has been reported, because he has no attention span.
tl;dr Trump can twitter war all he wants. Nothing is going to happen.
Again. It literally is repeating what Mattis said half a year back already, except the fire and fury bullshit. It doesn't matter what you doubt either, he doesn't need congress or senate (you know, the entities trying to reign him in) to give an order.
I mean, i don't know. I do agree that there's no reason to panic, but you clearly should stop being delusional.
Oh and most importantly, if Trump isn't "ruling", .. who is?
I was stationed in Okinawa. There's 4 marine corps bases and 2 naval bases. One major air base (kadena). Yokosuka in mainland japan is the major naval base in Japan.
Ah, a fellow soldier. That makes me understand you even less, and i promise you that most of the US soldiers i've met on tour would not share your opinion.
Your last part has me confused. What did you not understand about my listing of the bases on Okinawa? I've literally been to them all. I gave you the major ones.
My last part had nothing to do with your listing of the bases, not entirely sure what you're on about?
Did you watch that video? Because you're repeating what i just told you. You in the US get the same training in that regard as i did, and that is, you're allowed, or rather required, to reject any unlawful order. A conventional strike on NK is not unlawful, it's entirely in Trumps power to do so, just as bush and obama did. If you reject a lawful order, you're committing treason. And you should know that.
I'm not saying there will be a military coup if trump orders an attack. Just like his transgender ban he debuted on twitter. No one with any sense will follow what he says. Mattis simply stated, "If you feel froggy, leap." I don't get how you don't understand that. This is a president that has no sense of duty to the nation or anyone besides himself. No one will follow him into battle unless Mattis or a general tells them to. And even then, you can be sure all other efforts have been explored to the fullest.
I agree on your Trump-assessment, but again, Mattis can't just say no. Morally he might feel obligated, sure. Then he resigns, someone else is gonna do it. You seem to miss the fact that you have laws in the US that also are applied to soldiers, general or not. You can disagree all you want (or Mattis for that matter), you can not reject a lawful order. You can argue that Trump is a fucking moron (and man would i agree), but he still is the elected president of your country regardless of how retarded he is. Your entire country is based on those principles. If you betray them, and certainly you could: what can of worms are you opening then?
Roger Stone has a massive tattoo of Nixon's face covering his back.
Not sure if joking or real. oO
I think that no one in the military high command would obey an order to launch a nuclear first strike. A conventional first strike, on the other hand.... I really fear that Trump will order an attack on North Korea with conventional forces and the response from the DPRK will lead to the 2nd Korean War. That's a million dead, at least, and if the draft is reinstituted I might very well be one of them.
I am very serious about the tattoo. You can look it up, it's common knowledge, not some fringe conspiracy theory. Roger Stone bragged on Twitter about having connections to Assange and Guccifer 2.0 during the election, so I would be very surprised if he hadn't been subpoenaed. Furthermore, I think it's possible he may have done something illegal. Ergo, his anger towards Mueller is entirely unsurprising but still quite fun to watch.
I doubt the draft would be needed. We have enough military as is to fight NK. Most of it would be bombing the shit out of them. Plus we'd go in with SK and/or Japan. So we won't be needed. Now if China joins in, then we need to talk.
After his latest comments fueling the fire, i very much doubt your conclusion.
His response was in response to them saying that they are drawing up plans to attack Guam. He wouldn't have said anything otherwise.
So escalating it makes you feel.. confident?
What?
Who gives a shit what this was in response in, all of trumps tweets were in response to Kim, that doesn't mean that they somehow are justified or not escalating further.
A general who doesn't want to go to war, doesn't escalate. It really is that simple.
edit: of course you can argue that he doesn't want (or the US) to look weak, but if a general is that petty, again, how does that make you confident? The world knows the balance of power between NK and the US. Dickwaving doesn't do shit, it doesn't deter Kim, nothing: it only makes your people look really, really incompetent. Not just trump.
edit2: of course, you can argue that i misunderstand everything entirely, then feel free to explain to me how Mattis comments somehow should make the world (and make no mistake, it's not just the US at stake here) sleep better. What reasoning is behind that comment, and what is the expected result supposed to be.
The comments themselves may seem to be escalating the tension even further. I can see your reasoning behind that. I'm arguing that he responded to NKs claim of planning to attack Guam. If you don't know who Mattis is, you should read up on him. He won't go to war unless we are attacked first. Much of this back and forth is between unhinged trump and unhinged kim. Mattis' comments are not out to provoke NK to go but you better believe that he chose his words carefully.
A general who doesn't want to go to war, doesn't escalate. Agreed. Mattis' didn't escalate. Was there a response from NK after he made his comments? Did anyone else denounce his words? Did anything come from him saying what he said? He didn't "echo" trump. He made his own statement to them after they called trumps bluff.
Mhm, so how will Trump see that statement? Curious.
Not to mention, i don't agree at all with your assessment. Remember how we made fun of Trump because of his statements? Mattis literally made the exact same ones in february. So we got two options here: either Trumps comments are completely fine and appropriate, or Mattis isn't a dot better than Trump.
Don't forget to answer the question how Trump would take Mattis statement.
It doesn't matter how trump takes the statements. trump isn't going to make the final decision when push comes to shove. There are too many competent people in the military who would defy any orders from trump if he wanted to preemptively strike NK. Mattis is a military genius when it's all said and done. Read up on who he is and you'll understand that his comments are not to prop trump up. I feel his statement carries more weight behind it.
I don't need to, i judge people as they come, especially soldiers as a former one myself. And not to mention, it certainly DOES matter how Trump takes those statements, don't be dense. If he feels encouraged because he feels like his administration is with him on that one, he'll get bolder. You don't fucking encourage a monkey with a nuclear button.
Sidenote, no. There's no option to "defy" a legal order from your president without being thrown out, court marshalled and replaced by someone who will. If you think that Mattis will pull his gun and put one to Trumps head, you watch WAY too many movies. Lets make that one crystal clear. If Trump orders, Jets will start. It's entirely in his powers to do so, legally - ignoring that order would actually be treason regardless of "well mate i totally don't agree with that tho".
trump's statements are not fine nor appropriate for his position. As with all leaders, diplomacy is the best course and trump doesn't know what that is. No one takes anything he says seriously, just like Canada or France. Congress has rebuked him and he's now pretty much isolated in the WH. He's withered away the power of the presidency so quickly, I doubt he's in control of much. He's not being briefed on anything of significant importance, as has been reported, because he has no attention span.
tl;dr Trump can twitter war all he wants. Nothing is going to happen.
Again. It literally is repeating what Mattis said half a year back already, except the fire and fury bullshit. It doesn't matter what you doubt either, he doesn't need congress or senate (you know, the entities trying to reign him in) to give an order.
I mean, i don't know. I do agree that there's no reason to panic, but you clearly should stop being delusional.
Oh and most importantly, if Trump isn't "ruling", .. who is?
I was stationed in Okinawa. There's 4 marine corps bases and 2 naval bases. One major air base (kadena). Yokosuka in mainland japan is the major naval base in Japan.
Ah, a fellow soldier. That makes me understand you even less, and i promise you that most of the US soldiers i've met on tour would not share your opinion.
Your last part has me confused. What did you not understand about my listing of the bases on Okinawa? I've literally been to them all. I gave you the major ones.
My last part had nothing to do with your listing of the bases, not entirely sure what you're on about?
Did you watch that video? Because you're repeating what i just told you. You in the US get the same training in that regard as i did, and that is, you're allowed, or rather required, to reject any unlawful order. A conventional strike on NK is not unlawful, it's entirely in Trumps power to do so, just as bush and obama did. If you reject a lawful order, you're committing treason. And you should know that.
I'm not saying there will be a military coup if trump orders an attack. Just like his transgender ban he debuted on twitter. No one with any sense will follow what he says. Mattis simply stated, "If you feel froggy, leap." I don't get how you don't understand that. This is a president that has no sense of duty to the nation or anyone besides himself. No one will follow him into battle unless Mattis or a general tells them to. And even then, you can be sure all other efforts have been explored to the fullest.
I agree on your Trump-assessment, but again, Mattis can't just say no. Morally he might feel obligated, sure. Then he resigns, someone else is gonna do it. You seem to miss the fact that you have laws in the US that also are applied to soldiers, general or not. You can disagree all you want (or Mattis for that matter), you can not reject a lawful order. You can argue that Trump is a fucking moron (and man would i agree), but he still is the elected president of your country regardless of how retarded he is (or how retarded it was to elect him, it's not like this wasn't crystal clear from the beginning and in fact called here, literally this situation). Your entire country is based on those principles. If you betray them, and certainly you could: what can of worms are you opening then?
Roger Stone has a massive tattoo of Nixon's face covering his back.
Not sure if joking or real. oO
A conventional strike or declaration of war is different and I agree it would be difficult for the generals to say no. But I still hold firm that nothing is going to happen if he orders them to. There is nothing lawful about him setting out to show NK his dick is bigger, conventional or otherwise and I really don't think Mattis or the generals would do that. As with the transgender issue, they'll issue a statement along the lines of "We are aware of the president's comments and the issue is being further investigated to find the best possible solution." And then they'll go on about their business.
About not following your last part, since you had it quoted, I thought you were making a comment on that. FYI, I was a Marine, not a soldier. :p
What if it's a direct order while sitting in the Situation Room to launch a conventional attack, rather than some idiotic comment about attacking on Twitter? Personally, I think Mattis would follow orders in the first scenario, but not in the second. But I freely acknowledge that I really am not in the position to know either way.
On August 10 2017 11:48 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote: [quote] His response was in response to them saying that they are drawing up plans to attack Guam. He wouldn't have said anything otherwise.
So escalating it makes you feel.. confident?
What?
Who gives a shit what this was in response in, all of trumps tweets were in response to Kim, that doesn't mean that they somehow are justified or not escalating further.
A general who doesn't want to go to war, doesn't escalate. It really is that simple.
edit: of course you can argue that he doesn't want (or the US) to look weak, but if a general is that petty, again, how does that make you confident? The world knows the balance of power between NK and the US. Dickwaving doesn't do shit, it doesn't deter Kim, nothing: it only makes your people look really, really incompetent. Not just trump.
edit2: of course, you can argue that i misunderstand everything entirely, then feel free to explain to me how Mattis comments somehow should make the world (and make no mistake, it's not just the US at stake here) sleep better. What reasoning is behind that comment, and what is the expected result supposed to be.
The comments themselves may seem to be escalating the tension even further. I can see your reasoning behind that. I'm arguing that he responded to NKs claim of planning to attack Guam. If you don't know who Mattis is, you should read up on him. He won't go to war unless we are attacked first. Much of this back and forth is between unhinged trump and unhinged kim. Mattis' comments are not out to provoke NK to go but you better believe that he chose his words carefully.
A general who doesn't want to go to war, doesn't escalate. Agreed. Mattis' didn't escalate. Was there a response from NK after he made his comments? Did anyone else denounce his words? Did anything come from him saying what he said? He didn't "echo" trump. He made his own statement to them after they called trumps bluff.
Mhm, so how will Trump see that statement? Curious.
Not to mention, i don't agree at all with your assessment. Remember how we made fun of Trump because of his statements? Mattis literally made the exact same ones in february. So we got two options here: either Trumps comments are completely fine and appropriate, or Mattis isn't a dot better than Trump.
Don't forget to answer the question how Trump would take Mattis statement.
It doesn't matter how trump takes the statements. trump isn't going to make the final decision when push comes to shove. There are too many competent people in the military who would defy any orders from trump if he wanted to preemptively strike NK. Mattis is a military genius when it's all said and done. Read up on who he is and you'll understand that his comments are not to prop trump up. I feel his statement carries more weight behind it.
I don't need to, i judge people as they come, especially soldiers as a former one myself. And not to mention, it certainly DOES matter how Trump takes those statements, don't be dense. If he feels encouraged because he feels like his administration is with him on that one, he'll get bolder. You don't fucking encourage a monkey with a nuclear button.
Sidenote, no. There's no option to "defy" a legal order from your president without being thrown out, court marshalled and replaced by someone who will. If you think that Mattis will pull his gun and put one to Trumps head, you watch WAY too many movies. Lets make that one crystal clear. If Trump orders, Jets will start. It's entirely in his powers to do so, legally - ignoring that order would actually be treason regardless of "well mate i totally don't agree with that tho".
trump's statements are not fine nor appropriate for his position. As with all leaders, diplomacy is the best course and trump doesn't know what that is. No one takes anything he says seriously, just like Canada or France. Congress has rebuked him and he's now pretty much isolated in the WH. He's withered away the power of the presidency so quickly, I doubt he's in control of much. He's not being briefed on anything of significant importance, as has been reported, because he has no attention span.
tl;dr Trump can twitter war all he wants. Nothing is going to happen.
Again. It literally is repeating what Mattis said half a year back already, except the fire and fury bullshit. It doesn't matter what you doubt either, he doesn't need congress or senate (you know, the entities trying to reign him in) to give an order.
I mean, i don't know. I do agree that there's no reason to panic, but you clearly should stop being delusional.
Oh and most importantly, if Trump isn't "ruling", .. who is?
I was stationed in Okinawa. There's 4 marine corps bases and 2 naval bases. One major air base (kadena). Yokosuka in mainland japan is the major naval base in Japan.
Ah, a fellow soldier. That makes me understand you even less, and i promise you that most of the US soldiers i've met on tour would not share your opinion.
Your last part has me confused. What did you not understand about my listing of the bases on Okinawa? I've literally been to them all. I gave you the major ones.
My last part had nothing to do with your listing of the bases, not entirely sure what you're on about?
Did you watch that video? Because you're repeating what i just told you. You in the US get the same training in that regard as i did, and that is, you're allowed, or rather required, to reject any unlawful order. A conventional strike on NK is not unlawful, it's entirely in Trumps power to do so, just as bush and obama did. If you reject a lawful order, you're committing treason. And you should know that.
I'm not saying there will be a military coup if trump orders an attack. Just like his transgender ban he debuted on twitter. No one with any sense will follow what he says. Mattis simply stated, "If you feel froggy, leap." I don't get how you don't understand that. This is a president that has no sense of duty to the nation or anyone besides himself. No one will follow him into battle unless Mattis or a general tells them to. And even then, you can be sure all other efforts have been explored to the fullest.
I agree on your Trump-assessment, but again, Mattis can't just say no. Morally he might feel obligated, sure. Then he resigns, someone else is gonna do it. You seem to miss the fact that you have laws in the US that also are applied to soldiers, general or not. You can disagree all you want (or Mattis for that matter), you can not reject a lawful order. You can argue that Trump is a fucking moron (and man would i agree), but he still is the elected president of your country regardless of how retarded he is (or how retarded it was to elect him, it's not like this wasn't crystal clear from the beginning and in fact called here, literally this situation). Your entire country is based on those principles. If you betray them, and certainly you could: what can of worms are you opening then?
Roger Stone has a massive tattoo of Nixon's face covering his back.
Not sure if joking or real. oO
A conventional strike or declaration of war is different and I agree it would be difficult for the generals to say no. But I still hold firm that nothing is going to happen if he orders them to. There is nothing lawful about him setting out to show NK his dick is bigger, conventional or otherwise and I really don't think Mattis or the generals would do that. As with the transgender issue, they'll issue a statement along the lines of "We are aware of the president's comments and the issue is being further investigated to find the best possible solution." And then they'll go on about their business.
About not following your last part, since you had it quoted, I thought you were making a comment on that. FYI, I was a Marine, not a soldier. :p
What if it's a direct order while sitting in the Situation Room to launch a conventional attack, rather than some idiotic comment about attacking on Twitter? Personally, I think Mattis would follow orders in the first scenario, but not in the second. But I freely acknowledge that I really am not in the position to know either way.
If trump gives the order with Mattis present? There's going to be more than enough evidence at that point and Mattis would give the go ahead to his generals.
After his latest comments fueling the fire, i very much doubt your conclusion.
His response was in response to them saying that they are drawing up plans to attack Guam. He wouldn't have said anything otherwise.
So escalating it makes you feel.. confident?
What?
Who gives a shit what this was in response in, all of trumps tweets were in response to Kim, that doesn't mean that they somehow are justified or not escalating further.
A general who doesn't want to go to war, doesn't escalate. It really is that simple.
edit: of course you can argue that he doesn't want (or the US) to look weak, but if a general is that petty, again, how does that make you confident? The world knows the balance of power between NK and the US. Dickwaving doesn't do shit, it doesn't deter Kim, nothing: it only makes your people look really, really incompetent. Not just trump.
edit2: of course, you can argue that i misunderstand everything entirely, then feel free to explain to me how Mattis comments somehow should make the world (and make no mistake, it's not just the US at stake here) sleep better. What reasoning is behind that comment, and what is the expected result supposed to be.
The comments themselves may seem to be escalating the tension even further. I can see your reasoning behind that. I'm arguing that he responded to NKs claim of planning to attack Guam. If you don't know who Mattis is, you should read up on him. He won't go to war unless we are attacked first. Much of this back and forth is between unhinged trump and unhinged kim. Mattis' comments are not out to provoke NK to go but you better believe that he chose his words carefully.
A general who doesn't want to go to war, doesn't escalate. Agreed. Mattis' didn't escalate. Was there a response from NK after he made his comments? Did anyone else denounce his words? Did anything come from him saying what he said? He didn't "echo" trump. He made his own statement to them after they called trumps bluff.
Mhm, so how will Trump see that statement? Curious.
Not to mention, i don't agree at all with your assessment. Remember how we made fun of Trump because of his statements? Mattis literally made the exact same ones in february. So we got two options here: either Trumps comments are completely fine and appropriate, or Mattis isn't a dot better than Trump.
Don't forget to answer the question how Trump would take Mattis statement.
It doesn't matter how trump takes the statements. trump isn't going to make the final decision when push comes to shove. There are too many competent people in the military who would defy any orders from trump if he wanted to preemptively strike NK. Mattis is a military genius when it's all said and done. Read up on who he is and you'll understand that his comments are not to prop trump up. I feel his statement carries more weight behind it.
I don't need to, i judge people as they come, especially soldiers as a former one myself. And not to mention, it certainly DOES matter how Trump takes those statements, don't be dense. If he feels encouraged because he feels like his administration is with him on that one, he'll get bolder. You don't fucking encourage a monkey with a nuclear button.
Sidenote, no. There's no option to "defy" a legal order from your president without being thrown out, court marshalled and replaced by someone who will. If you think that Mattis will pull his gun and put one to Trumps head, you watch WAY too many movies. Lets make that one crystal clear. If Trump orders, Jets will start. It's entirely in his powers to do so, legally - ignoring that order would actually be treason regardless of "well mate i totally don't agree with that tho".
trump's statements are not fine nor appropriate for his position. As with all leaders, diplomacy is the best course and trump doesn't know what that is. No one takes anything he says seriously, just like Canada or France. Congress has rebuked him and he's now pretty much isolated in the WH. He's withered away the power of the presidency so quickly, I doubt he's in control of much. He's not being briefed on anything of significant importance, as has been reported, because he has no attention span.
tl;dr Trump can twitter war all he wants. Nothing is going to happen.
Again. It literally is repeating what Mattis said half a year back already, except the fire and fury bullshit. It doesn't matter what you doubt either, he doesn't need congress or senate (you know, the entities trying to reign him in) to give an order.
I mean, i don't know. I do agree that there's no reason to panic, but you clearly should stop being delusional.
Oh and most importantly, if Trump isn't "ruling", .. who is?
I was stationed in Okinawa. There's 4 marine corps bases and 2 naval bases. One major air base (kadena). Yokosuka in mainland japan is the major naval base in Japan.
Ah, a fellow soldier. That makes me understand you even less, and i promise you that most of the US soldiers i've met on tour would not share your opinion.
Your last part has me confused. What did you not understand about my listing of the bases on Okinawa? I've literally been to them all. I gave you the major ones.
My last part had nothing to do with your listing of the bases, not entirely sure what you're on about?
Did you watch that video? Because you're repeating what i just told you. You in the US get the same training in that regard as i did, and that is, you're allowed, or rather required, to reject any unlawful order. A conventional strike on NK is not unlawful, it's entirely in Trumps power to do so, just as bush and obama did. If you reject a lawful order, you're committing treason. And you should know that.
I'm not saying there will be a military coup if trump orders an attack. Just like his transgender ban he debuted on twitter. No one with any sense will follow what he says. Mattis simply stated, "If you feel froggy, leap." I don't get how you don't understand that. This is a president that has no sense of duty to the nation or anyone besides himself. No one will follow him into battle unless Mattis or a general tells them to. And even then, you can be sure all other efforts have been explored to the fullest.
I agree on your Trump-assessment, but again, Mattis can't just say no. Morally he might feel obligated, sure. Then he resigns, someone else is gonna do it. You seem to miss the fact that you have laws in the US that also are applied to soldiers, general or not. You can disagree all you want (or Mattis for that matter), you can not reject a lawful order. You can argue that Trump is a fucking moron (and man would i agree), but he still is the elected president of your country regardless of how retarded he is (or how retarded it was to elect him, it's not like this wasn't crystal clear from the beginning and in fact called here, literally this situation). Your entire country is based on those principles. If you betray them, and certainly you could: what can of worms are you opening then?
Roger Stone has a massive tattoo of Nixon's face covering his back.
Not sure if joking or real. oO
A conventional strike or declaration of war is different and I agree it would be difficult for the generals to say no. But I still hold firm that nothing is going to happen if he orders them to. There is nothing lawful about him setting out to show NK his dick is bigger, conventional or otherwise and I really don't think Mattis or the generals would do that. As with the transgender issue, they'll issue a statement along the lines of "We are aware of the president's comments and the issue is being further investigated to find the best possible solution." And then they'll go on about their business.
About not following your last part, since you had it quoted, I thought you were making a comment on that. FYI, I was a Marine, not a soldier. :p
These proposed strikes via B-1Bs are conventional. And yeah, it's lawful as long as you can't prove that it's not provoked, which i assume you'd be hard pressed in regards to NK. The transgender issue is something else entirely, i don't know why you're coming back to that. It was a tweet, not a military order. Although i wouldn't put it behind Trump to order a conventional strike via Twitter, i assume if push comes to shove, it'd be different.
In regards to being a marine, my condolences.
Army all the way (except german, but you know, details). But that's for a different thread (or a very long night with loads of liquids of the hop kind, and i don't mean that piss that you sell as beer in the US).
I think that no one in the military high command would obey an order to launch a nuclear first strike. A conventional first strike, on the other hand.... I really fear that Trump will order an attack on North Korea with conventional forces and the response from the DPRK will lead to the 2nd Korean War. That's a million dead, at least, and if the draft is reinstituted I might very well be one of them.
I am very serious about the tattoo. You can look it up, it's common knowledge, not some fringe conspiracy theory. Roger Stone bragged on Twitter about having connections to Assange and Guccifer 2.0 during the election, so I would be very surprised if he hadn't been subpoenaed. Furthermore, I think it's possible he may have done something illegal. Ergo, his anger towards Mueller is entirely unsurprising but still quite fun to watch.
Oh i do believe you, didn't imply you were lying, it's just that i really don't care that much about a delusional conspiracy nutjob that i start googling shit
And yeah, i was talking about the proposed strike. Conventional weapons, B-1B bombers.
The escalating nuclear crisis between the United States and North Korea boils down to a battle between “two bullies” that could have devastating consequences if President Donald Trump feels “his manhood” is being attacked. That’s the verdict of former Secretary of Defense and CIA Director Leon Panetta.
“You’ve got two bullies chiding each other with outrageous comments—and it doesn’t help the situation in terms of trying to resolve something that has to be resolved peacefully...because the consequences of nuclear war would be devastating,” Panetta told Politico Tuesday at the Panetta Institute for Public Policy at California State University, Monterey Bay.
He added: “The question is: Does [Trump] get so frustrated with the North Korean leader—who’s yelling every other day—that he feels that somehow the North Korean leader is attacking his manhood? This is a guy who, if he feels that, does he decide, ‘OK, enough is enough’? So we’re living on that brink right now. We’re not sure what direction this is going to take.... It’s a very dangerous world that’s out there, and it’s going to require a lot of decisions on some tough issues.”
Two senior military officials — and two senior retired officers — told NBC News that key to the plan would be a B-1B heavy bomber attack originating from Andersen Air Force Base in Guam. My beef with this attack is that it will only be hitting the above ground missile launching areas ... which are really just dirt fields. I am not seeing how we hit any warheads with this kind of strike. Further, they can make more launch facilities fairly easy. I would prefer that we cripple their entire submarine force in 1 blow and end their SLBM development for good.
Pairs of B-1s have conducted 11 practice runs of a similar mission since the end of May, the last taking place on Monday. The training has accelerated since May, according to officials. In an actual mission, the non-nuclear bombers would be supported by satellites and drones and surrounded by fighter jets as well as aerial refueling and electronic warfare planes.
While I am sure that B1 bombers would be involved, I doubt that the strikes will be limited to supporting them. B2's will undoubtedly be used to hit the most heavily defended areas, not to mention the inevitable cruise missile barrage from the navy and drone involvement. In other words, there's no reason why the US wouldn't destroy the submarine force in the initial attacks along with the launch facilities.
Regardless, I don't think that an attack from the US is imminent. The big tip off that something may be coming will be when news leaks out that multiple carrier strike groups have been deployed to the region. I'd be very surprised if the US tried something with only one carrier group deployed.
There's B52s stationed on Guam, so i'm pretty sure that they'd go in too. I assume NK is using cold war era soviet anti air systems, B-1Bs and ballistic weaponry should make short work of those, enabling B52s to go in.
On August 10 2017 11:48 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote: [quote] His response was in response to them saying that they are drawing up plans to attack Guam. He wouldn't have said anything otherwise.
So escalating it makes you feel.. confident?
What?
Who gives a shit what this was in response in, all of trumps tweets were in response to Kim, that doesn't mean that they somehow are justified or not escalating further.
A general who doesn't want to go to war, doesn't escalate. It really is that simple.
edit: of course you can argue that he doesn't want (or the US) to look weak, but if a general is that petty, again, how does that make you confident? The world knows the balance of power between NK and the US. Dickwaving doesn't do shit, it doesn't deter Kim, nothing: it only makes your people look really, really incompetent. Not just trump.
edit2: of course, you can argue that i misunderstand everything entirely, then feel free to explain to me how Mattis comments somehow should make the world (and make no mistake, it's not just the US at stake here) sleep better. What reasoning is behind that comment, and what is the expected result supposed to be.
The comments themselves may seem to be escalating the tension even further. I can see your reasoning behind that. I'm arguing that he responded to NKs claim of planning to attack Guam. If you don't know who Mattis is, you should read up on him. He won't go to war unless we are attacked first. Much of this back and forth is between unhinged trump and unhinged kim. Mattis' comments are not out to provoke NK to go but you better believe that he chose his words carefully.
A general who doesn't want to go to war, doesn't escalate. Agreed. Mattis' didn't escalate. Was there a response from NK after he made his comments? Did anyone else denounce his words? Did anything come from him saying what he said? He didn't "echo" trump. He made his own statement to them after they called trumps bluff.
Mhm, so how will Trump see that statement? Curious.
Not to mention, i don't agree at all with your assessment. Remember how we made fun of Trump because of his statements? Mattis literally made the exact same ones in february. So we got two options here: either Trumps comments are completely fine and appropriate, or Mattis isn't a dot better than Trump.
Don't forget to answer the question how Trump would take Mattis statement.
It doesn't matter how trump takes the statements. trump isn't going to make the final decision when push comes to shove. There are too many competent people in the military who would defy any orders from trump if he wanted to preemptively strike NK. Mattis is a military genius when it's all said and done. Read up on who he is and you'll understand that his comments are not to prop trump up. I feel his statement carries more weight behind it.
I don't need to, i judge people as they come, especially soldiers as a former one myself. And not to mention, it certainly DOES matter how Trump takes those statements, don't be dense. If he feels encouraged because he feels like his administration is with him on that one, he'll get bolder. You don't fucking encourage a monkey with a nuclear button.
Sidenote, no. There's no option to "defy" a legal order from your president without being thrown out, court marshalled and replaced by someone who will. If you think that Mattis will pull his gun and put one to Trumps head, you watch WAY too many movies. Lets make that one crystal clear. If Trump orders, Jets will start. It's entirely in his powers to do so, legally - ignoring that order would actually be treason regardless of "well mate i totally don't agree with that tho".
trump's statements are not fine nor appropriate for his position. As with all leaders, diplomacy is the best course and trump doesn't know what that is. No one takes anything he says seriously, just like Canada or France. Congress has rebuked him and he's now pretty much isolated in the WH. He's withered away the power of the presidency so quickly, I doubt he's in control of much. He's not being briefed on anything of significant importance, as has been reported, because he has no attention span.
tl;dr Trump can twitter war all he wants. Nothing is going to happen.
Again. It literally is repeating what Mattis said half a year back already, except the fire and fury bullshit. It doesn't matter what you doubt either, he doesn't need congress or senate (you know, the entities trying to reign him in) to give an order.
I mean, i don't know. I do agree that there's no reason to panic, but you clearly should stop being delusional.
Oh and most importantly, if Trump isn't "ruling", .. who is?
I was stationed in Okinawa. There's 4 marine corps bases and 2 naval bases. One major air base (kadena). Yokosuka in mainland japan is the major naval base in Japan.
Ah, a fellow soldier. That makes me understand you even less, and i promise you that most of the US soldiers i've met on tour would not share your opinion.
Your last part has me confused. What did you not understand about my listing of the bases on Okinawa? I've literally been to them all. I gave you the major ones.
My last part had nothing to do with your listing of the bases, not entirely sure what you're on about?
Did you watch that video? Because you're repeating what i just told you. You in the US get the same training in that regard as i did, and that is, you're allowed, or rather required, to reject any unlawful order. A conventional strike on NK is not unlawful, it's entirely in Trumps power to do so, just as bush and obama did. If you reject a lawful order, you're committing treason. And you should know that.
I'm not saying there will be a military coup if trump orders an attack. Just like his transgender ban he debuted on twitter. No one with any sense will follow what he says. Mattis simply stated, "If you feel froggy, leap." I don't get how you don't understand that. This is a president that has no sense of duty to the nation or anyone besides himself. No one will follow him into battle unless Mattis or a general tells them to. And even then, you can be sure all other efforts have been explored to the fullest.
I agree on your Trump-assessment, but again, Mattis can't just say no. Morally he might feel obligated, sure. Then he resigns, someone else is gonna do it. You seem to miss the fact that you have laws in the US that also are applied to soldiers, general or not. You can disagree all you want (or Mattis for that matter), you can not reject a lawful order. You can argue that Trump is a fucking moron (and man would i agree), but he still is the elected president of your country regardless of how retarded he is (or how retarded it was to elect him, it's not like this wasn't crystal clear from the beginning and in fact called here, literally this situation). Your entire country is based on those principles. If you betray them, and certainly you could: what can of worms are you opening then?
Roger Stone has a massive tattoo of Nixon's face covering his back.
Not sure if joking or real. oO
A conventional strike or declaration of war is different and I agree it would be difficult for the generals to say no. But I still hold firm that nothing is going to happen if he orders them to. There is nothing lawful about him setting out to show NK his dick is bigger, conventional or otherwise and I really don't think Mattis or the generals would do that. As with the transgender issue, they'll issue a statement along the lines of "We are aware of the president's comments and the issue is being further investigated to find the best possible solution." And then they'll go on about their business.
About not following your last part, since you had it quoted, I thought you were making a comment on that. FYI, I was a Marine, not a soldier. :p
These proposed strikes via B-1Bs are conventional. And yeah, it's lawful as long as you can't prove that it's not provoked, which i assume you'd be hard pressed in regards to NK. The transgender issue is something else entirely, i don't know why you're coming back to that. It was a tweet, not a military order. Although i wouldn't put it behind Trump to order a conventional strike via Twitter, i assume if push comes to shove, it'd be different.
In regards to being a marine, my condolences.
Army all the way (except german, but you know, details). But that's for a different thread (or a very long night with loads of liquids of the hop kind, and i don't mean that piss that you sell as beer in the US).
I think that no one in the military high command would obey an order to launch a nuclear first strike. A conventional first strike, on the other hand.... I really fear that Trump will order an attack on North Korea with conventional forces and the response from the DPRK will lead to the 2nd Korean War. That's a million dead, at least, and if the draft is reinstituted I might very well be one of them.
I am very serious about the tattoo. You can look it up, it's common knowledge, not some fringe conspiracy theory. Roger Stone bragged on Twitter about having connections to Assange and Guccifer 2.0 during the election, so I would be very surprised if he hadn't been subpoenaed. Furthermore, I think it's possible he may have done something illegal. Ergo, his anger towards Mueller is entirely unsurprising but still quite fun to watch.
Oh i do believe you, didn't imply you were lying, it's just that i really don't care that much about a delusional conspiracy nutjob that i start googling shit
And yeah, i was talking about the proposed strike. Conventional weapons, B-1B bombers.
edit: jesus, 5am, not the time for me
Sadly Roger Stone is not just a delusional conspiracy nutjob. He often hangs out with those types and has made numerous appearances with Alex Jones. But Stone is in fact one of the most successful American political operatives of the last 50 years. He's a very effective dirty tricks kind of guy. I hope it comes back to bite him now.
On August 10 2017 11:48 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote: [quote] His response was in response to them saying that they are drawing up plans to attack Guam. He wouldn't have said anything otherwise.
So escalating it makes you feel.. confident?
What?
Who gives a shit what this was in response in, all of trumps tweets were in response to Kim, that doesn't mean that they somehow are justified or not escalating further.
A general who doesn't want to go to war, doesn't escalate. It really is that simple.
edit: of course you can argue that he doesn't want (or the US) to look weak, but if a general is that petty, again, how does that make you confident? The world knows the balance of power between NK and the US. Dickwaving doesn't do shit, it doesn't deter Kim, nothing: it only makes your people look really, really incompetent. Not just trump.
edit2: of course, you can argue that i misunderstand everything entirely, then feel free to explain to me how Mattis comments somehow should make the world (and make no mistake, it's not just the US at stake here) sleep better. What reasoning is behind that comment, and what is the expected result supposed to be.
The comments themselves may seem to be escalating the tension even further. I can see your reasoning behind that. I'm arguing that he responded to NKs claim of planning to attack Guam. If you don't know who Mattis is, you should read up on him. He won't go to war unless we are attacked first. Much of this back and forth is between unhinged trump and unhinged kim. Mattis' comments are not out to provoke NK to go but you better believe that he chose his words carefully.
A general who doesn't want to go to war, doesn't escalate. Agreed. Mattis' didn't escalate. Was there a response from NK after he made his comments? Did anyone else denounce his words? Did anything come from him saying what he said? He didn't "echo" trump. He made his own statement to them after they called trumps bluff.
Mhm, so how will Trump see that statement? Curious.
Not to mention, i don't agree at all with your assessment. Remember how we made fun of Trump because of his statements? Mattis literally made the exact same ones in february. So we got two options here: either Trumps comments are completely fine and appropriate, or Mattis isn't a dot better than Trump.
Don't forget to answer the question how Trump would take Mattis statement.
It doesn't matter how trump takes the statements. trump isn't going to make the final decision when push comes to shove. There are too many competent people in the military who would defy any orders from trump if he wanted to preemptively strike NK. Mattis is a military genius when it's all said and done. Read up on who he is and you'll understand that his comments are not to prop trump up. I feel his statement carries more weight behind it.
I don't need to, i judge people as they come, especially soldiers as a former one myself. And not to mention, it certainly DOES matter how Trump takes those statements, don't be dense. If he feels encouraged because he feels like his administration is with him on that one, he'll get bolder. You don't fucking encourage a monkey with a nuclear button.
Sidenote, no. There's no option to "defy" a legal order from your president without being thrown out, court marshalled and replaced by someone who will. If you think that Mattis will pull his gun and put one to Trumps head, you watch WAY too many movies. Lets make that one crystal clear. If Trump orders, Jets will start. It's entirely in his powers to do so, legally - ignoring that order would actually be treason regardless of "well mate i totally don't agree with that tho".
trump's statements are not fine nor appropriate for his position. As with all leaders, diplomacy is the best course and trump doesn't know what that is. No one takes anything he says seriously, just like Canada or France. Congress has rebuked him and he's now pretty much isolated in the WH. He's withered away the power of the presidency so quickly, I doubt he's in control of much. He's not being briefed on anything of significant importance, as has been reported, because he has no attention span.
tl;dr Trump can twitter war all he wants. Nothing is going to happen.
Again. It literally is repeating what Mattis said half a year back already, except the fire and fury bullshit. It doesn't matter what you doubt either, he doesn't need congress or senate (you know, the entities trying to reign him in) to give an order.
I mean, i don't know. I do agree that there's no reason to panic, but you clearly should stop being delusional.
Oh and most importantly, if Trump isn't "ruling", .. who is?
I was stationed in Okinawa. There's 4 marine corps bases and 2 naval bases. One major air base (kadena). Yokosuka in mainland japan is the major naval base in Japan.
Ah, a fellow soldier. That makes me understand you even less, and i promise you that most of the US soldiers i've met on tour would not share your opinion.
Your last part has me confused. What did you not understand about my listing of the bases on Okinawa? I've literally been to them all. I gave you the major ones.
My last part had nothing to do with your listing of the bases, not entirely sure what you're on about?
Did you watch that video? Because you're repeating what i just told you. You in the US get the same training in that regard as i did, and that is, you're allowed, or rather required, to reject any unlawful order. A conventional strike on NK is not unlawful, it's entirely in Trumps power to do so, just as bush and obama did. If you reject a lawful order, you're committing treason. And you should know that.
I'm not saying there will be a military coup if trump orders an attack. Just like his transgender ban he debuted on twitter. No one with any sense will follow what he says. Mattis simply stated, "If you feel froggy, leap." I don't get how you don't understand that. This is a president that has no sense of duty to the nation or anyone besides himself. No one will follow him into battle unless Mattis or a general tells them to. And even then, you can be sure all other efforts have been explored to the fullest.
I agree on your Trump-assessment, but again, Mattis can't just say no. Morally he might feel obligated, sure. Then he resigns, someone else is gonna do it. You seem to miss the fact that you have laws in the US that also are applied to soldiers, general or not. You can disagree all you want (or Mattis for that matter), you can not reject a lawful order. You can argue that Trump is a fucking moron (and man would i agree), but he still is the elected president of your country regardless of how retarded he is (or how retarded it was to elect him, it's not like this wasn't crystal clear from the beginning and in fact called here, literally this situation). Your entire country is based on those principles. If you betray them, and certainly you could: what can of worms are you opening then?
Roger Stone has a massive tattoo of Nixon's face covering his back.
Not sure if joking or real. oO
A conventional strike or declaration of war is different and I agree it would be difficult for the generals to say no. But I still hold firm that nothing is going to happen if he orders them to. There is nothing lawful about him setting out to show NK his dick is bigger, conventional or otherwise and I really don't think Mattis or the generals would do that. As with the transgender issue, they'll issue a statement along the lines of "We are aware of the president's comments and the issue is being further investigated to find the best possible solution." And then they'll go on about their business.
About not following your last part, since you had it quoted, I thought you were making a comment on that. FYI, I was a Marine, not a soldier. :p
These proposed strikes via B-1Bs are conventional. And yeah, it's lawful as long as you can't prove that it's not provoked, which i assume you'd be hard pressed in regards to NK. The transgender issue is something else entirely, i don't know why you're coming back to that. It was a tweet, not a military order. Although i wouldn't put it behind Trump to order a conventional strike via Twitter, i assume if push comes to shove, it'd be different.
In regards to being a marine, my condolences.
Army all the way (except german, but you know, details). But that's for a different thread (or a very long night with loads of liquids of the hop kind, and i don't mean that piss that you sell as beer in the US).
I think that no one in the military high command would obey an order to launch a nuclear first strike. A conventional first strike, on the other hand.... I really fear that Trump will order an attack on North Korea with conventional forces and the response from the DPRK will lead to the 2nd Korean War. That's a million dead, at least, and if the draft is reinstituted I might very well be one of them.
I am very serious about the tattoo. You can look it up, it's common knowledge, not some fringe conspiracy theory. Roger Stone bragged on Twitter about having connections to Assange and Guccifer 2.0 during the election, so I would be very surprised if he hadn't been subpoenaed. Furthermore, I think it's possible he may have done something illegal. Ergo, his anger towards Mueller is entirely unsurprising but still quite fun to watch.
Oh i do believe you, didn't imply you were lying, it's just that i really don't care that much about a delusional conspiracy nutjob that i start googling shit
And yeah, i was talking about the proposed strike. Conventional weapons, B-1B bombers.
edit: jesus, 5am, not the time for me
I'm long overdue for a trip to Germany, so we'll have to make that offer a reality. And yeah, being a Marine was just boring. Tedious and boring. But 3 years of Okinawa living does that to you.
I only bring up the transgender issue to illustrate how the military basically told trump to fuck off.
Who gives a shit what this was in response in, all of trumps tweets were in response to Kim, that doesn't mean that they somehow are justified or not escalating further.
A general who doesn't want to go to war, doesn't escalate. It really is that simple.
edit: of course you can argue that he doesn't want (or the US) to look weak, but if a general is that petty, again, how does that make you confident? The world knows the balance of power between NK and the US. Dickwaving doesn't do shit, it doesn't deter Kim, nothing: it only makes your people look really, really incompetent. Not just trump.
edit2: of course, you can argue that i misunderstand everything entirely, then feel free to explain to me how Mattis comments somehow should make the world (and make no mistake, it's not just the US at stake here) sleep better. What reasoning is behind that comment, and what is the expected result supposed to be.
The comments themselves may seem to be escalating the tension even further. I can see your reasoning behind that. I'm arguing that he responded to NKs claim of planning to attack Guam. If you don't know who Mattis is, you should read up on him. He won't go to war unless we are attacked first. Much of this back and forth is between unhinged trump and unhinged kim. Mattis' comments are not out to provoke NK to go but you better believe that he chose his words carefully.
A general who doesn't want to go to war, doesn't escalate. Agreed. Mattis' didn't escalate. Was there a response from NK after he made his comments? Did anyone else denounce his words? Did anything come from him saying what he said? He didn't "echo" trump. He made his own statement to them after they called trumps bluff.
Mhm, so how will Trump see that statement? Curious.
Not to mention, i don't agree at all with your assessment. Remember how we made fun of Trump because of his statements? Mattis literally made the exact same ones in february. So we got two options here: either Trumps comments are completely fine and appropriate, or Mattis isn't a dot better than Trump.
Don't forget to answer the question how Trump would take Mattis statement.
It doesn't matter how trump takes the statements. trump isn't going to make the final decision when push comes to shove. There are too many competent people in the military who would defy any orders from trump if he wanted to preemptively strike NK. Mattis is a military genius when it's all said and done. Read up on who he is and you'll understand that his comments are not to prop trump up. I feel his statement carries more weight behind it.
I don't need to, i judge people as they come, especially soldiers as a former one myself. And not to mention, it certainly DOES matter how Trump takes those statements, don't be dense. If he feels encouraged because he feels like his administration is with him on that one, he'll get bolder. You don't fucking encourage a monkey with a nuclear button.
Sidenote, no. There's no option to "defy" a legal order from your president without being thrown out, court marshalled and replaced by someone who will. If you think that Mattis will pull his gun and put one to Trumps head, you watch WAY too many movies. Lets make that one crystal clear. If Trump orders, Jets will start. It's entirely in his powers to do so, legally - ignoring that order would actually be treason regardless of "well mate i totally don't agree with that tho".
trump's statements are not fine nor appropriate for his position. As with all leaders, diplomacy is the best course and trump doesn't know what that is. No one takes anything he says seriously, just like Canada or France. Congress has rebuked him and he's now pretty much isolated in the WH. He's withered away the power of the presidency so quickly, I doubt he's in control of much. He's not being briefed on anything of significant importance, as has been reported, because he has no attention span.
tl;dr Trump can twitter war all he wants. Nothing is going to happen.
Again. It literally is repeating what Mattis said half a year back already, except the fire and fury bullshit. It doesn't matter what you doubt either, he doesn't need congress or senate (you know, the entities trying to reign him in) to give an order.
I mean, i don't know. I do agree that there's no reason to panic, but you clearly should stop being delusional.
Oh and most importantly, if Trump isn't "ruling", .. who is?
I was stationed in Okinawa. There's 4 marine corps bases and 2 naval bases. One major air base (kadena). Yokosuka in mainland japan is the major naval base in Japan.
Ah, a fellow soldier. That makes me understand you even less, and i promise you that most of the US soldiers i've met on tour would not share your opinion.
Your last part has me confused. What did you not understand about my listing of the bases on Okinawa? I've literally been to them all. I gave you the major ones.
My last part had nothing to do with your listing of the bases, not entirely sure what you're on about?
Did you watch that video? Because you're repeating what i just told you. You in the US get the same training in that regard as i did, and that is, you're allowed, or rather required, to reject any unlawful order. A conventional strike on NK is not unlawful, it's entirely in Trumps power to do so, just as bush and obama did. If you reject a lawful order, you're committing treason. And you should know that.
I'm not saying there will be a military coup if trump orders an attack. Just like his transgender ban he debuted on twitter. No one with any sense will follow what he says. Mattis simply stated, "If you feel froggy, leap." I don't get how you don't understand that. This is a president that has no sense of duty to the nation or anyone besides himself. No one will follow him into battle unless Mattis or a general tells them to. And even then, you can be sure all other efforts have been explored to the fullest.
I agree on your Trump-assessment, but again, Mattis can't just say no. Morally he might feel obligated, sure. Then he resigns, someone else is gonna do it. You seem to miss the fact that you have laws in the US that also are applied to soldiers, general or not. You can disagree all you want (or Mattis for that matter), you can not reject a lawful order. You can argue that Trump is a fucking moron (and man would i agree), but he still is the elected president of your country regardless of how retarded he is (or how retarded it was to elect him, it's not like this wasn't crystal clear from the beginning and in fact called here, literally this situation). Your entire country is based on those principles. If you betray them, and certainly you could: what can of worms are you opening then?
Roger Stone has a massive tattoo of Nixon's face covering his back.
Not sure if joking or real. oO
A conventional strike or declaration of war is different and I agree it would be difficult for the generals to say no. But I still hold firm that nothing is going to happen if he orders them to. There is nothing lawful about him setting out to show NK his dick is bigger, conventional or otherwise and I really don't think Mattis or the generals would do that. As with the transgender issue, they'll issue a statement along the lines of "We are aware of the president's comments and the issue is being further investigated to find the best possible solution." And then they'll go on about their business.
About not following your last part, since you had it quoted, I thought you were making a comment on that. FYI, I was a Marine, not a soldier. :p
These proposed strikes via B-1Bs are conventional. And yeah, it's lawful as long as you can't prove that it's not provoked, which i assume you'd be hard pressed in regards to NK. The transgender issue is something else entirely, i don't know why you're coming back to that. It was a tweet, not a military order. Although i wouldn't put it behind Trump to order a conventional strike via Twitter, i assume if push comes to shove, it'd be different.
In regards to being a marine, my condolences.
Army all the way (except german, but you know, details). But that's for a different thread (or a very long night with loads of liquids of the hop kind, and i don't mean that piss that you sell as beer in the US).
I think that no one in the military high command would obey an order to launch a nuclear first strike. A conventional first strike, on the other hand.... I really fear that Trump will order an attack on North Korea with conventional forces and the response from the DPRK will lead to the 2nd Korean War. That's a million dead, at least, and if the draft is reinstituted I might very well be one of them.
I am very serious about the tattoo. You can look it up, it's common knowledge, not some fringe conspiracy theory. Roger Stone bragged on Twitter about having connections to Assange and Guccifer 2.0 during the election, so I would be very surprised if he hadn't been subpoenaed. Furthermore, I think it's possible he may have done something illegal. Ergo, his anger towards Mueller is entirely unsurprising but still quite fun to watch.
Oh i do believe you, didn't imply you were lying, it's just that i really don't care that much about a delusional conspiracy nutjob that i start googling shit
And yeah, i was talking about the proposed strike. Conventional weapons, B-1B bombers.
edit: jesus, 5am, not the time for me
Sadly Roger Stone is not just a delusional conspiracy nutjob. He often hangs out with those types and has made numerous appearances with Alex Jones. But Stone is in fact one of the most successful American political operatives of the last 50 years. He's a very effective dirty tricks kind of guy. I hope it comes back to bite him now.
That's not mutually exclusive as we know, Trump is of the same category really.
Might read up on him, for fun. Now's too late tho, bed's calling.
I'm long overdue for a trip to Germany, so we'll have to make that offer a reality. And yeah, being a Marine was just boring. Tedious and boring. But 3 years of Okinawa living does that to you.
You'd need to make a stop in Wales, UK - that's where i found my wife. But not too far (20ish miles) here's the biggest air base in the UK, so the pubs here are rather fun. :D
I always thought living in Japan is great. I was actually thinking about it when i was younger, now i feel too old to learn the language (actually i'm just too lazy but meh). Being a soldier (Panzergrenadier, basically mechanized infantry? The guys with APCs being grunts on the frontline) was really not that boring for me. At least some parts of it.
On August 10 2017 12:05 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote: [quote] The comments themselves may seem to be escalating the tension even further. I can see your reasoning behind that. I'm arguing that he responded to NKs claim of planning to attack Guam. If you don't know who Mattis is, you should read up on him. He won't go to war unless we are attacked first. Much of this back and forth is between unhinged trump and unhinged kim. Mattis' comments are not out to provoke NK to go but you better believe that he chose his words carefully.
A general who doesn't want to go to war, doesn't escalate. Agreed. Mattis' didn't escalate. Was there a response from NK after he made his comments? Did anyone else denounce his words? Did anything come from him saying what he said? He didn't "echo" trump. He made his own statement to them after they called trumps bluff.
Mhm, so how will Trump see that statement? Curious.
Not to mention, i don't agree at all with your assessment. Remember how we made fun of Trump because of his statements? Mattis literally made the exact same ones in february. So we got two options here: either Trumps comments are completely fine and appropriate, or Mattis isn't a dot better than Trump.
Don't forget to answer the question how Trump would take Mattis statement.
It doesn't matter how trump takes the statements. trump isn't going to make the final decision when push comes to shove. There are too many competent people in the military who would defy any orders from trump if he wanted to preemptively strike NK. Mattis is a military genius when it's all said and done. Read up on who he is and you'll understand that his comments are not to prop trump up. I feel his statement carries more weight behind it.
I don't need to, i judge people as they come, especially soldiers as a former one myself. And not to mention, it certainly DOES matter how Trump takes those statements, don't be dense. If he feels encouraged because he feels like his administration is with him on that one, he'll get bolder. You don't fucking encourage a monkey with a nuclear button.
Sidenote, no. There's no option to "defy" a legal order from your president without being thrown out, court marshalled and replaced by someone who will. If you think that Mattis will pull his gun and put one to Trumps head, you watch WAY too many movies. Lets make that one crystal clear. If Trump orders, Jets will start. It's entirely in his powers to do so, legally - ignoring that order would actually be treason regardless of "well mate i totally don't agree with that tho".
trump's statements are not fine nor appropriate for his position. As with all leaders, diplomacy is the best course and trump doesn't know what that is. No one takes anything he says seriously, just like Canada or France. Congress has rebuked him and he's now pretty much isolated in the WH. He's withered away the power of the presidency so quickly, I doubt he's in control of much. He's not being briefed on anything of significant importance, as has been reported, because he has no attention span.
tl;dr Trump can twitter war all he wants. Nothing is going to happen.
Again. It literally is repeating what Mattis said half a year back already, except the fire and fury bullshit. It doesn't matter what you doubt either, he doesn't need congress or senate (you know, the entities trying to reign him in) to give an order.
I mean, i don't know. I do agree that there's no reason to panic, but you clearly should stop being delusional.
Oh and most importantly, if Trump isn't "ruling", .. who is?
I was stationed in Okinawa. There's 4 marine corps bases and 2 naval bases. One major air base (kadena). Yokosuka in mainland japan is the major naval base in Japan.
Ah, a fellow soldier. That makes me understand you even less, and i promise you that most of the US soldiers i've met on tour would not share your opinion.
Your last part has me confused. What did you not understand about my listing of the bases on Okinawa? I've literally been to them all. I gave you the major ones.
My last part had nothing to do with your listing of the bases, not entirely sure what you're on about?
Did you watch that video? Because you're repeating what i just told you. You in the US get the same training in that regard as i did, and that is, you're allowed, or rather required, to reject any unlawful order. A conventional strike on NK is not unlawful, it's entirely in Trumps power to do so, just as bush and obama did. If you reject a lawful order, you're committing treason. And you should know that.
I'm not saying there will be a military coup if trump orders an attack. Just like his transgender ban he debuted on twitter. No one with any sense will follow what he says. Mattis simply stated, "If you feel froggy, leap." I don't get how you don't understand that. This is a president that has no sense of duty to the nation or anyone besides himself. No one will follow him into battle unless Mattis or a general tells them to. And even then, you can be sure all other efforts have been explored to the fullest.
I agree on your Trump-assessment, but again, Mattis can't just say no. Morally he might feel obligated, sure. Then he resigns, someone else is gonna do it. You seem to miss the fact that you have laws in the US that also are applied to soldiers, general or not. You can disagree all you want (or Mattis for that matter), you can not reject a lawful order. You can argue that Trump is a fucking moron (and man would i agree), but he still is the elected president of your country regardless of how retarded he is (or how retarded it was to elect him, it's not like this wasn't crystal clear from the beginning and in fact called here, literally this situation). Your entire country is based on those principles. If you betray them, and certainly you could: what can of worms are you opening then?
Roger Stone has a massive tattoo of Nixon's face covering his back.
Not sure if joking or real. oO
A conventional strike or declaration of war is different and I agree it would be difficult for the generals to say no. But I still hold firm that nothing is going to happen if he orders them to. There is nothing lawful about him setting out to show NK his dick is bigger, conventional or otherwise and I really don't think Mattis or the generals would do that. As with the transgender issue, they'll issue a statement along the lines of "We are aware of the president's comments and the issue is being further investigated to find the best possible solution." And then they'll go on about their business.
About not following your last part, since you had it quoted, I thought you were making a comment on that. FYI, I was a Marine, not a soldier. :p
These proposed strikes via B-1Bs are conventional. And yeah, it's lawful as long as you can't prove that it's not provoked, which i assume you'd be hard pressed in regards to NK. The transgender issue is something else entirely, i don't know why you're coming back to that. It was a tweet, not a military order. Although i wouldn't put it behind Trump to order a conventional strike via Twitter, i assume if push comes to shove, it'd be different.
In regards to being a marine, my condolences.
Army all the way (except german, but you know, details). But that's for a different thread (or a very long night with loads of liquids of the hop kind, and i don't mean that piss that you sell as beer in the US).
I think that no one in the military high command would obey an order to launch a nuclear first strike. A conventional first strike, on the other hand.... I really fear that Trump will order an attack on North Korea with conventional forces and the response from the DPRK will lead to the 2nd Korean War. That's a million dead, at least, and if the draft is reinstituted I might very well be one of them.
I am very serious about the tattoo. You can look it up, it's common knowledge, not some fringe conspiracy theory. Roger Stone bragged on Twitter about having connections to Assange and Guccifer 2.0 during the election, so I would be very surprised if he hadn't been subpoenaed. Furthermore, I think it's possible he may have done something illegal. Ergo, his anger towards Mueller is entirely unsurprising but still quite fun to watch.
Oh i do believe you, didn't imply you were lying, it's just that i really don't care that much about a delusional conspiracy nutjob that i start googling shit
And yeah, i was talking about the proposed strike. Conventional weapons, B-1B bombers.
edit: jesus, 5am, not the time for me
Sadly Roger Stone is not just a delusional conspiracy nutjob. He often hangs out with those types and has made numerous appearances with Alex Jones. But Stone is in fact one of the most successful American political operatives of the last 50 years. He's a very effective dirty tricks kind of guy. I hope it comes back to bite him now.
That's not mutually exclusive as we know, Trump is of the same category really.
Might read up on him, for fun. Now's too late tho, bed's calling.
I'm long overdue for a trip to Germany, so we'll have to make that offer a reality. And yeah, being a Marine was just boring. Tedious and boring. But 3 years of Okinawa living does that to you.
You'd need to make a stop in Wales, UK - that's where i found my wife. But not too far (20ish miles) here's the biggest air base in the UK, so the pubs here are rather fun. :D
I always thought living in Japan is great. I was actually thinking about it when i was younger, now i feel too old to learn the language (actually i'm just too lazy but meh). Being a soldier (Panzergrenadier, basically mechanized infantry? The guys with APCs being grunts on the frontline) was really not that boring for me. At least some parts of it.
Sounds good. I haven't given up my european backpacking dreams. I'm pushing 31, so I'll get it going within the next 2-3 years for sure. And living in Japan was a dream. I could go on and on about that place. Hence my apprehension of NK trying to bomb them. Second home and all that.
I'm sure tomorrow will give us some more news from Trump and co. If Mattis does do the opposite of what I've claimed here, then I'll delete my account here. But I doubt anything major will happen even if NK completes its plans to bomb Guam.
In stark contrast to the narrative peddled by the 'progressive' media (labeling the author sexist, bigot, misogynist, pig...), they seem to agree the science behind it is pretty much rock solid. As in, really solid.
So in essence, man gets fired for being scientifically accurate and attempting a reasoned debate.
On August 10 2017 15:30 Kickboxer wrote: Scholars respond to the Google memo fiasco.
In stark contrast to the narrative peddled by the 'progressive' media (labeling the author sexist, bigot, misogynist, pig...), they seem to agree the science behind it is pretty much rock solid. As in, really solid.
So in essence, man gets fired for being scientifically accurate and attempting a reasoned debate.
On August 10 2017 15:30 Kickboxer wrote: Scholars respond to the Google memo fiasco.
In stark contrast to the narrative peddled by the 'progressive' media (labeling the author sexist, bigot, misogynist, pig...), they seem to agree the science behind it is pretty much rock solid. As in, really solid.
So in essence, man gets fired for being scientifically accurate and attempting a reasoned debate.
Its late so I haven't had a chance to go over it much but I have found some problematic logic and overselling of some rather niche scientific disciplines (like evolutionary psychology) to make their points while one of the authors suggests reading a bunch of one of the other four's work as evidence. They also like all leave out or just give lip service to cultural and social factors and one really just says some things about his research about sex differences, acknowledges the barriers that women face but at the end doesn't agree that he should be fired because discourse should be more open.
Also rounding up 4 scientists does not a consensus on the issue make and its not exactly hard to find 4 PhD's who hold views that run counter to mainstream thought.
The science of sex differences is really complicated and anyone trying to tell you with absolute certainty or that there is a huge scientific consensus about it is selling you something.
I did actually go back and read the entire thing. I would put it as a "I kind of partially agree, but I'd debate the central thesis" in terms of the argument alone.
In terms of what you'd put out under your own name that was a completely and utterly reckless thing to post. A "fireable if people notice" level of dumb. Google, like any other corporate environment, will need to save face if there is public outcry, so this result isn't surprising.
Also might be important to point out that Dr. Schmitt who had a piece in the article that Kickboxer linked really doesn't agree with a lot of things in the memo either and just responded because he work was cited and in general he hopes people can be more open and scientific when discussing (and being informed on) the topic.
The tit-for-tat between Donald Trump and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell over the chamber's failure to repeal Obamacare opens a politically perilous schism within a party already riven by tensions over its lack of accomplishments this year.
Trump's punch at McConnell Wednesday came less than 48 hours after the Kentucky Republican suggested during an appearance in his home state that the president's inexperience gave him “excessive expectations” for the time frame required to rip up Obamacare. In fact, GOP leaders had projected days after Trump's inauguration that they would repeal the health care law and pass a tax bill by this month, neither of which has happened.
“Senator Mitch McConnell said I had ‘excessive expectations,’ but I don’t think so,” the president tweeted Wednesday afternoon. “After 7 years of hearing Repeal & Replace, why not done?”
Frustration at the White House with McConnell's comments spilled into the open earlier Wednesday when Trump's social media director, Dan Scavino, quipped on Twitter that the Senate GOP leader "must have needed another 4 years" to repeal and replace Obamacare "in addition to the 7 years" since it became law.
The intra-GOP squabble could further fray relations between Trump and Senate Republicans, some of whom spent their last week in session before this month's recess focused on strategies to rein in the president. McConnell is a particularly critical ally for Trump as the president pitches an ambitious tax plan and pushes to fund his long-promised border wall while averting a government shutdown next month.
McConnell set off Trump when the Senate leader told the Rotary Club in Florence, Kentucky, on Monday that the perception that Congress hasn’t accomplished anything is “extremely irritating.” He attributed it, in part, to “the president and others” who “have set these early timelines” for legislation such as undoing the health care law that is President Barack Obama's signature achievement.
“Our new president, of course, has not been in this line of work before and I think had excessive expectations about how quickly things happen in the democratic process,” McConnell (R-Ky.) added.
Trump did hand McConnell a win on Tuesday by endorsing Sen. Luther Strange (R-Ala.), the majority leader's preferred candidate in this month's GOP primary race to succeed Attorney General Jeff Sessions. But by Wednesday, following an anti-McConnell tweet from Fox News host Sean Hannity, Trump's sentiments had shifted against the Senate Republican leader.
Asked about Trump's tweet, McConnell spokeswoman Antonia Ferrier said: "The Leader has spoken repeatedly about the path forward regarding Obamacare repeal on the Senate floor, at media availabilities multiple times, and in Kentucky. If he has any new statements, I’ll be sure to pass them along."
Although Trump blamed McConnell for the Senate GOP's inability to muster 50 votes for a still-unclear path to replacing Obamacare following its demise, the president arguably has complicated that task as often as he has helped. Trump chided the House GOP's repeal bill as "mean" soon after its passage, and his affiliated political group America First Policies floated a million-dollar campaign to shame Sen. Dean Heller after the Nevada Republican criticized an early iteration of their party's Obamacare repeal legislation.
Among the first members of McConnell's conference to speak out after Trump's criticism came to the president's defense — not the majority leader's.
Sen. Lindsey Graham, a frequent Trump critic, called it “ridiculous” for McConnell to blame Trump’s impatience and inexperience for the public sense that Congress hasn’t done much.
“It’s like being hit by a slow-moving bus in Kansas. You can see the bus coming,” the South Carolina Republican told Fox News’ Brian Kilmeade in a radio interview. “The bottom line is we didn’t fail because we didn’t have enough time. We failed because we were not ready to solve the problem, and we didn’t have the right idea.”
McConnell has so far failed to bring forward a bill to repeal Obamacare or to repeal and replace it in a manner that could garner enough support from his Republican caucus to advance. The Senate left town for its annual August recess last week after falling short of its years-long pledge to uproot the law, and with no firm plans to resume the health care debate. The chamber plans to focus on tax reform and other issues such as the debt ceiling when lawmakers return in September.
Graham, however, said he intends to continue pushing for a health care overhaul by introducing a bill with Sen. Bill Cassidy (R-La.).
“I like Mitch, but for eight years we’ve been saying we’re going to repeal and replace Obamacare. It's not like we made this up overnight,” Graham said. “There is no way to sugarcoat this: The Republican Party promised for eight years to repeal and replace Obamacare. We failed, and if we give up, shame on us.”
On August 10 2017 15:30 Kickboxer wrote: Scholars respond to the Google memo fiasco.
In stark contrast to the narrative peddled by the 'progressive' media (labeling the author sexist, bigot, misogynist, pig...), they seem to agree the science behind it is pretty much rock solid. As in, really solid.
So in essence, man gets fired for being scientifically accurate and attempting a reasoned debate.
Its late so I haven't had a chance to go over it much but I have found some problematic logic and overselling of some rather niche scientific disciplines (like evolutionary psychology) to make their points while one of the authors suggests reading a bunch of one of the other four's work as evidence. They also like all leave out or just give lip service to cultural and social factors and one really just says some things about his research about sex differences, acknowledges the barriers that women face but at the end doesn't agree that he should be fired because discourse should be more open.
Also rounding up 4 scientists does not a consensus on the issue make and its not exactly hard to find 4 PhD's who hold views that run counter to mainstream thought.
The science of sex differences is really complicated and anyone trying to tell you with absolute certainty or that there is a huge scientific consensus about it is selling you something.
On August 10 2017 15:30 Kickboxer wrote: Scholars respond to the Google memo fiasco.
In stark contrast to the narrative peddled by the 'progressive' media (labeling the author sexist, bigot, misogynist, pig...), they seem to agree the science behind it is pretty much rock solid. As in, really solid.
So in essence, man gets fired for being scientifically accurate and attempting a reasoned debate.
Its late so I haven't had a chance to go over it much but I have found some problematic logic and overselling of some rather niche scientific disciplines (like evolutionary psychology) to make their points while one of the authors suggests reading a bunch of one of the other four's work as evidence. They also like all leave out or just give lip service to cultural and social factors and one really just says some things about his research about sex differences, acknowledges the barriers that women face but at the end doesn't agree that he should be fired because discourse should be more open.
Also rounding up 4 scientists does not a consensus on the issue make and its not exactly hard to find 4 PhD's who hold views that run counter to mainstream thought.
The science of sex differences is really complicated and anyone trying to tell you with absolute certainty or that there is a huge scientific consensus about it is selling you something.
Not to mention, the "science" of psychology, gender- and social studies is generally wooly and subjective, not exactly biology or physics.
Yes, they are in many ways more challenging since their subject is the human mind. But that has never stopped STEM lord from looking down at the fields for being about feelings.
EPT
