|
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On July 20 2017 08:48 LegalLord wrote:
So, since we're probably at least a year away from any real charges, I'm curious what you folk think: how deep does this Russia thing go?
I think it goes deep enough for someone to get indicted on a felony.
and that there's probably at least one person who was working with the russians (probably not for them so much as with them, and doing it for the money).
which isn't really all that different from what I used to think;
past that it's mostly just enoug hstuff to warrant a thorough investigation, and see where the evidence goes.
|
Special reminder. And:
I wonder when we will see those taxes.
|
|
|
He has already admitted to firing Comey over the investigation. This is not a surprise.
|
On July 20 2017 09:43 Gorsameth wrote:He has already admitted to firing Comey over the investigation. This is not a surprise.
It compounds the evidence for obstruction. He keeps admitting that he will use the office of the president to end the investigation into his affairs.
Lot of good stuff on twitter from reporters, republicans and democrats.
|
On July 20 2017 09:09 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Show nested quote +Video from Baltimore Police Department body cameras shows an officer tampering with evidence in a case that sent a man to jail for more than five months, reports have claimed.
The Baltimore Sun’s Justin Fenton recently shared a 90-second video showing what appears to be three Baltimore Police officers standing on a street corner. The camera follows one officer as he walks into an alleyway and places what appears to be a bag of drugs in a trash heap.
He then goes back to the street, stands for several seconds, and returns to the alleyway. He removes the bag from the same trash heap and brandishes it in front of the camera.
Baltimore Police Department body cameras record and preserve footage from the last 30 seconds before they are activated, according to the department's body-worn camera policy.
Fox Baltimore reports that a man was arrested in January on drug charges connected to this video. Mr Fenton claims the man was held for months on a $50,000 bail that he could not afford.
According to Fox Baltimore, the man’s trial was scheduled for last week. It was stalled, however, when a public defender found the video and send it to the prosecutor in the case.
In an email obtained by Fox Baltimore, the prosecutor writes: ”I’ve passed [the video] up and we are all appalled … something is going to happen because of this revelation.”
The charges were eventually dropped, but the officer in question was reportedly called in to testify on another case just one week later.
“[The prosecutors] had knowledge,” Public Defender Debbie Katz Levi told Fox Baltimore. “They watched it and were appalled by what was on the video, and then for whatever reason made the choice to continue to call him as a witness.”
The Baltimore Police Department said in a statement that they take the allegations “very seriously,” and have launched an internal investigation.
“We are fortunate to have Body Worn Cameras which provide a perspective of the events as reported,” the department said.
The Baltimore Police Department began rolling out body cameras to the majority of its officers in July of 2016. Officers are instructed to turn on their cameras during enforcement or investigative activities, emergency vehicle operation, custodial transports, or “other activities of a potentially confrontational nature”.
A 2016 Justice Department investigation of the Baltimore Police revealed at least one case of an officer planting drugs on a suspect. A fellow officer said he did not report the incident immediately for fear of retaliation.
That same year, the department settled a lawsuit with a man who accused the department of orchestrating a bogus drug bust at his home.
The city was also the site of riots last spring, when a young, black man named Freddie Gray died in police custody. All charges against the officers involved were eventually dropped.
The Independent has reached out to the Baltimore Police Department and the State’s Attorney's office for comment.
Source
Good thing those cops that watched him plant evidence are all in jail pending trial too.
What's that? It's basically not illegal for cops to conspire in tampering with a crime scene and planting evidence? Well that seems odd....
|
|
|
Alternative Facts. I wonder who fed him that line.
|
On July 20 2017 09:33 mozoku wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2017 09:18 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 20 2017 09:11 mozoku wrote:On July 20 2017 08:56 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 20 2017 08:52 mozoku wrote:On July 20 2017 08:30 KwarK wrote:
Not sure if sarcastic or genuinely asking why nobody has started a company with a business plan reading "hire women, pay them less". Why is that any more ridiculous than "hire H1-Bs, pay them less"? If the level of extremity for some reason bothers you (as opposed to just being condescending), why are consulting firms male-dominated? By far the largest cost in that business is people, but consultants at the Big 3 have 70/30 male/female gender splits. Reverse that to 30/70, pay them 10% less, and you've reduced your total labor costs by 4.2%. Seems like an obvious move, doesn't it? My eyes don't tell me that sexism is causing women to be paid less. My brain tells me that women often take a career gap mid-career, are (on average) less aggressive in social situations (unfavorable in most occupations), and culturally are less pressured to be career-driven. Women are, on average, better at multitasking but worse at focusing exclusively on a single task (i.e. work). These are real cultural and biological factors that would presumably affect women's pay in the aggregate. Why is it necessarily "sexism" instead of these factors that explain the pay gap? "I see it with my eyes" is not good enough evidence. Because it's male dominated and they have to deal with male egos. Would you take a negotiation on a multi-million/billion dollar cause seriously if a woman represented the other firm? Probably not. But a male counterpart would probably get that deal done and have the respect of the other party. It's as simple as that. Women aren't less effective at those things, they are viewed that way. You're a prime example of why it's so hard for them to get their fair due in the corporate world. Uhhh, you're aware that there are women CEOs, and still 30% of the consulting business is women, right? Clearly, women can compete with and outperform men. There are female partners at consulting firms, and female directors as well. The issue is I raised is whether they do so on average. If cultural and biological factors don't affect genders differently, why are so many college majors so imbalanced along gender lines (when each person chooses what to study)? On July 20 2017 09:04 Plansix wrote:On July 20 2017 08:56 Danglars wrote:On July 20 2017 08:52 mozoku wrote:On July 20 2017 08:30 KwarK wrote:
Not sure if sarcastic or genuinely asking why nobody has started a company with a business plan reading "hire women, pay them less". Why is that any more ridiculous than "hire H1-Bs, pay them less"? If the level of extremity for some reason bothers you (as opposed to just being condescending), why are consulting firms male-dominated? By far the largest cost in that business is people, but consultants at the Big 3 have 70/30 male/female gender splits. Reverse that to 30/70, pay them 10% less, and you've reduced your total labor costs by 4.2%. Seems like an obvious move, doesn't it?My eyes don't tell me that sexism is causing women to be paid less. My brain tells me that women often take a career gap mid-career, are (on average) less aggressive in social situations (unfavorable in most occupations), and culturally are less pressured to be career-driven. Women are, on average, better at multitasking but worse at focusing exclusively on a single task (i.e. work). These are real cultural and biological factors that would presumably affect women's pay in the aggregate. Why is it necessarily "sexism" instead of these factors that explain the pay gap? "I see it with my eyes" is not good enough evidence. TBH that third paragraph on "less aggressive," "worse at focusing," and "biological factors" is enough to be called a sexist in Southern California circles. The female attorneys I work for agree that it is pretty sexist. Let them. If they're offended because they don't understand how an individual's traits and abilities are different from the average of individuals' traits and abilities, that's their own problem. Not society's. I never said that your coworkers were less aggressive or worse at multitasking because they're female. No, the issue you raised was that women should be paid less for the same amount of work. And if H1-B visa was the same thing, then it should be used in place of women. Those visas are for foreign workers coming here on a temporary basis. Not women in the workforce trying to support themselves and a family. You're cherry picking the narrative to suit your needs. I never said they should be paid less for the same work. What I said is that there are cultural and biological factors that plausibly may cause women to be slightly less productive workers, in the aggregate. For that reason, they may be valued less on average by businesses. That says nothing about what an individual woman's worth in the market is relative to the average man. They can be worth far more or far less. The variance of a worker's productivity is nearly entirely within gender, not between gender. To assert that the between gender variance is zero conflicts with the fact that there's measurable differences between genders in everything else. It's simply false on its face. I don't support any kind of discrimination based on race, sex, sexual orientation because it doesn't make any sense. People should be paid what they're worth. If sexism is indeed the reason are paid less, then that's nonsense and needs to be fixed. But that needs to be clearly established before we start passing laws, unless they're being passed merely for political purposes.
Go back and read the first paragraph you wrote. You literally said to substitute the men for women, pay them less, and reduce cost of paying personnel. Or are you saying pay the men 10% less? Because that isn't what you typed. Either way, you're still advocating for paying women less than men for the same work being done.
|
He's been diagnosed with brain cancer, not the flu...
|
|
|
this is the guy who belittled mccain's service during the vietnam war, so.
|
So I'm genuinely not just trying to find more reasons to dislike Trump, and I know this isn't that important in the grand scheme of things. But in the face of a likely-lethal cancer diagnosis, does "Get well soon" not feel a bit... trite? Like, I'm sure Obama or his social media whever put some thought into the politics of it so it's kind of manufactured, but his statement still felt a little genuine. Trump's felt to me like he never liked McCain and didn't want to try very hard to hide it.
Like, Trump has this reputation for being some kind of messaging genius, so why does that statement make him look like a bit of an asshole? Is the 4d chess narrative that Trump actually benefits somehow from being perceived as an asshole? Or am I the only one that got that vibe from Trump's statement about McCain?
|
On July 20 2017 10:39 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2017 09:33 mozoku wrote:On July 20 2017 09:18 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 20 2017 09:11 mozoku wrote:On July 20 2017 08:56 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 20 2017 08:52 mozoku wrote:On July 20 2017 08:30 KwarK wrote:
Not sure if sarcastic or genuinely asking why nobody has started a company with a business plan reading "hire women, pay them less". Why is that any more ridiculous than "hire H1-Bs, pay them less"? If the level of extremity for some reason bothers you (as opposed to just being condescending), why are consulting firms male-dominated? By far the largest cost in that business is people, but consultants at the Big 3 have 70/30 male/female gender splits. Reverse that to 30/70, pay them 10% less, and you've reduced your total labor costs by 4.2%. Seems like an obvious move, doesn't it? My eyes don't tell me that sexism is causing women to be paid less. My brain tells me that women often take a career gap mid-career, are (on average) less aggressive in social situations (unfavorable in most occupations), and culturally are less pressured to be career-driven. Women are, on average, better at multitasking but worse at focusing exclusively on a single task (i.e. work). These are real cultural and biological factors that would presumably affect women's pay in the aggregate. Why is it necessarily "sexism" instead of these factors that explain the pay gap? "I see it with my eyes" is not good enough evidence. Because it's male dominated and they have to deal with male egos. Would you take a negotiation on a multi-million/billion dollar cause seriously if a woman represented the other firm? Probably not. But a male counterpart would probably get that deal done and have the respect of the other party. It's as simple as that. Women aren't less effective at those things, they are viewed that way. You're a prime example of why it's so hard for them to get their fair due in the corporate world. Uhhh, you're aware that there are women CEOs, and still 30% of the consulting business is women, right? Clearly, women can compete with and outperform men. There are female partners at consulting firms, and female directors as well. The issue is I raised is whether they do so on average. If cultural and biological factors don't affect genders differently, why are so many college majors so imbalanced along gender lines (when each person chooses what to study)? On July 20 2017 09:04 Plansix wrote:On July 20 2017 08:56 Danglars wrote:On July 20 2017 08:52 mozoku wrote:On July 20 2017 08:30 KwarK wrote:
Not sure if sarcastic or genuinely asking why nobody has started a company with a business plan reading "hire women, pay them less". Why is that any more ridiculous than "hire H1-Bs, pay them less"? If the level of extremity for some reason bothers you (as opposed to just being condescending), why are consulting firms male-dominated? By far the largest cost in that business is people, but consultants at the Big 3 have 70/30 male/female gender splits. Reverse that to 30/70, pay them 10% less, and you've reduced your total labor costs by 4.2%. Seems like an obvious move, doesn't it?My eyes don't tell me that sexism is causing women to be paid less. My brain tells me that women often take a career gap mid-career, are (on average) less aggressive in social situations (unfavorable in most occupations), and culturally are less pressured to be career-driven. Women are, on average, better at multitasking but worse at focusing exclusively on a single task (i.e. work). These are real cultural and biological factors that would presumably affect women's pay in the aggregate. Why is it necessarily "sexism" instead of these factors that explain the pay gap? "I see it with my eyes" is not good enough evidence. TBH that third paragraph on "less aggressive," "worse at focusing," and "biological factors" is enough to be called a sexist in Southern California circles. The female attorneys I work for agree that it is pretty sexist. Let them. If they're offended because they don't understand how an individual's traits and abilities are different from the average of individuals' traits and abilities, that's their own problem. Not society's. I never said that your coworkers were less aggressive or worse at multitasking because they're female. No, the issue you raised was that women should be paid less for the same amount of work. And if H1-B visa was the same thing, then it should be used in place of women. Those visas are for foreign workers coming here on a temporary basis. Not women in the workforce trying to support themselves and a family. You're cherry picking the narrative to suit your needs. I never said they should be paid less for the same work. What I said is that there are cultural and biological factors that plausibly may cause women to be slightly less productive workers, in the aggregate. For that reason, they may be valued less on average by businesses. That says nothing about what an individual woman's worth in the market is relative to the average man. They can be worth far more or far less. The variance of a worker's productivity is nearly entirely within gender, not between gender. To assert that the between gender variance is zero conflicts with the fact that there's measurable differences between genders in everything else. It's simply false on its face. I don't support any kind of discrimination based on race, sex, sexual orientation because it doesn't make any sense. People should be paid what they're worth. If sexism is indeed the reason are paid less, then that's nonsense and needs to be fixed. But that needs to be clearly established before we start passing laws, unless they're being passed merely for political purposes. Go back and read the first paragraph you wrote. You literally said to substitute the men for women, pay them less, and reduce cost of paying personnel. Or are you saying pay the men 10% less? Because that isn't what you typed. Either way, you're still advocating for paying women less than men for the same work being done.
What he was saying is that if the wage gap is as big as advertised, it would make no sense to have a man hired for a job when you could have a woman in that position. With equal competency, you'd get the same product for cheaper. Like mentioned a few pages ago with sometimes what is best from a capitalistic stance isn't always ethical.
|
On July 20 2017 10:53 ChristianS wrote:
So I'm genuinely not just trying to find more reasons to dislike Trump, and I know this isn't that important in the grand scheme of things. But in the face of a likely-lethal cancer diagnosis, does "Get well soon" not feel a bit... trite? Like, I'm sure Obama or his social media whever put some thought into the politics of it so it's kind of manufactured, but his statement still felt a little genuine. Trump's felt to me like he never liked McCain and didn't want to try very hard to hide it.
Like, Trump has this reputation for being some kind of messaging genius, so why does that statement make him look like a bit of an asshole? Is the 4d chess narrative that Trump actually benefits somehow from being perceived as an asshole? Or am I the only one that got that vibe from Trump's statement about McCain?
this doesn't feel like it was written by trump, or particularly suggested (beyond a vague note to say something); and get well soon for a cancer diagnosis is odd;
this feels like it was written by an intern/low level staffer at the press secretary's office; and the higher ups failed to check it properly.
|
On July 20 2017 10:53 ChristianS wrote:
Like, Trump has this reputation for being some kind of messaging genius, so why does that statement make him look like a bit of an asshole? Is the 4d chess narrative that Trump actually benefits somehow from being perceived as an asshole? Or am I the only one that got that vibe from Trump's statement about McCain?
I mean, he only is a messanging genius to people who like the fact that he is an asshole, so there's that. This is just how he communicates
|
On July 20 2017 10:58 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2017 10:53 ChristianS wrote:
So I'm genuinely not just trying to find more reasons to dislike Trump, and I know this isn't that important in the grand scheme of things. But in the face of a likely-lethal cancer diagnosis, does "Get well soon" not feel a bit... trite? Like, I'm sure Obama or his social media whever put some thought into the politics of it so it's kind of manufactured, but his statement still felt a little genuine. Trump's felt to me like he never liked McCain and didn't want to try very hard to hide it.
Like, Trump has this reputation for being some kind of messaging genius, so why does that statement make him look like a bit of an asshole? Is the 4d chess narrative that Trump actually benefits somehow from being perceived as an asshole? Or am I the only one that got that vibe from Trump's statement about McCain? this doesn't feel like it was written by trump, or particularly suggested (beyond a vague note to say something); and get well soon for a cancer diagnosis is odd; this feels like it was written by an intern/low level staffer at the press secretary's office; and the higher ups failed to check it properly.
Is this the first press release/statement you've seen from this Administration? It's rare that such messages don't sound like this, have typos, or even misspelled words.
|
On July 20 2017 10:55 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2017 10:39 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 20 2017 09:33 mozoku wrote:On July 20 2017 09:18 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 20 2017 09:11 mozoku wrote:On July 20 2017 08:56 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 20 2017 08:52 mozoku wrote:On July 20 2017 08:30 KwarK wrote:
Not sure if sarcastic or genuinely asking why nobody has started a company with a business plan reading "hire women, pay them less". Why is that any more ridiculous than "hire H1-Bs, pay them less"? If the level of extremity for some reason bothers you (as opposed to just being condescending), why are consulting firms male-dominated? By far the largest cost in that business is people, but consultants at the Big 3 have 70/30 male/female gender splits. Reverse that to 30/70, pay them 10% less, and you've reduced your total labor costs by 4.2%. Seems like an obvious move, doesn't it? My eyes don't tell me that sexism is causing women to be paid less. My brain tells me that women often take a career gap mid-career, are (on average) less aggressive in social situations (unfavorable in most occupations), and culturally are less pressured to be career-driven. Women are, on average, better at multitasking but worse at focusing exclusively on a single task (i.e. work). These are real cultural and biological factors that would presumably affect women's pay in the aggregate. Why is it necessarily "sexism" instead of these factors that explain the pay gap? "I see it with my eyes" is not good enough evidence. Because it's male dominated and they have to deal with male egos. Would you take a negotiation on a multi-million/billion dollar cause seriously if a woman represented the other firm? Probably not. But a male counterpart would probably get that deal done and have the respect of the other party. It's as simple as that. Women aren't less effective at those things, they are viewed that way. You're a prime example of why it's so hard for them to get their fair due in the corporate world. Uhhh, you're aware that there are women CEOs, and still 30% of the consulting business is women, right? Clearly, women can compete with and outperform men. There are female partners at consulting firms, and female directors as well. The issue is I raised is whether they do so on average. If cultural and biological factors don't affect genders differently, why are so many college majors so imbalanced along gender lines (when each person chooses what to study)? On July 20 2017 09:04 Plansix wrote:On July 20 2017 08:56 Danglars wrote:On July 20 2017 08:52 mozoku wrote:On July 20 2017 08:30 KwarK wrote:
Not sure if sarcastic or genuinely asking why nobody has started a company with a business plan reading "hire women, pay them less". Why is that any more ridiculous than "hire H1-Bs, pay them less"? If the level of extremity for some reason bothers you (as opposed to just being condescending), why are consulting firms male-dominated? By far the largest cost in that business is people, but consultants at the Big 3 have 70/30 male/female gender splits. Reverse that to 30/70, pay them 10% less, and you've reduced your total labor costs by 4.2%. Seems like an obvious move, doesn't it?My eyes don't tell me that sexism is causing women to be paid less. My brain tells me that women often take a career gap mid-career, are (on average) less aggressive in social situations (unfavorable in most occupations), and culturally are less pressured to be career-driven. Women are, on average, better at multitasking but worse at focusing exclusively on a single task (i.e. work). These are real cultural and biological factors that would presumably affect women's pay in the aggregate. Why is it necessarily "sexism" instead of these factors that explain the pay gap? "I see it with my eyes" is not good enough evidence. TBH that third paragraph on "less aggressive," "worse at focusing," and "biological factors" is enough to be called a sexist in Southern California circles. The female attorneys I work for agree that it is pretty sexist. Let them. If they're offended because they don't understand how an individual's traits and abilities are different from the average of individuals' traits and abilities, that's their own problem. Not society's. I never said that your coworkers were less aggressive or worse at multitasking because they're female. No, the issue you raised was that women should be paid less for the same amount of work. And if H1-B visa was the same thing, then it should be used in place of women. Those visas are for foreign workers coming here on a temporary basis. Not women in the workforce trying to support themselves and a family. You're cherry picking the narrative to suit your needs. I never said they should be paid less for the same work. What I said is that there are cultural and biological factors that plausibly may cause women to be slightly less productive workers, in the aggregate. For that reason, they may be valued less on average by businesses. That says nothing about what an individual woman's worth in the market is relative to the average man. They can be worth far more or far less. The variance of a worker's productivity is nearly entirely within gender, not between gender. To assert that the between gender variance is zero conflicts with the fact that there's measurable differences between genders in everything else. It's simply false on its face. I don't support any kind of discrimination based on race, sex, sexual orientation because it doesn't make any sense. People should be paid what they're worth. If sexism is indeed the reason are paid less, then that's nonsense and needs to be fixed. But that needs to be clearly established before we start passing laws, unless they're being passed merely for political purposes. Go back and read the first paragraph you wrote. You literally said to substitute the men for women, pay them less, and reduce cost of paying personnel. Or are you saying pay the men 10% less? Because that isn't what you typed. Either way, you're still advocating for paying women less than men for the same work being done. What he was saying is that if the wage gap is as big as advertised, it would make no sense to have a man hired for a job when you could have a woman in that position. With equal competency, you'd get the same product for cheaper. Like mentioned a few pages ago with sometimes what is best from a capitalistic stance isn't always ethical.
I understand that. What I'm saying is that it's sexist to do that and then claim "capitalism made me do it." You pay the same for the work being done, regardless of sex. If a woman made more than simply because she was a woman, I'd argue the same thing.
|
On July 20 2017 11:04 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2017 10:55 Gahlo wrote:On July 20 2017 10:39 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 20 2017 09:33 mozoku wrote:On July 20 2017 09:18 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 20 2017 09:11 mozoku wrote:On July 20 2017 08:56 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 20 2017 08:52 mozoku wrote:On July 20 2017 08:30 KwarK wrote:
Not sure if sarcastic or genuinely asking why nobody has started a company with a business plan reading "hire women, pay them less". Why is that any more ridiculous than "hire H1-Bs, pay them less"? If the level of extremity for some reason bothers you (as opposed to just being condescending), why are consulting firms male-dominated? By far the largest cost in that business is people, but consultants at the Big 3 have 70/30 male/female gender splits. Reverse that to 30/70, pay them 10% less, and you've reduced your total labor costs by 4.2%. Seems like an obvious move, doesn't it? My eyes don't tell me that sexism is causing women to be paid less. My brain tells me that women often take a career gap mid-career, are (on average) less aggressive in social situations (unfavorable in most occupations), and culturally are less pressured to be career-driven. Women are, on average, better at multitasking but worse at focusing exclusively on a single task (i.e. work). These are real cultural and biological factors that would presumably affect women's pay in the aggregate. Why is it necessarily "sexism" instead of these factors that explain the pay gap? "I see it with my eyes" is not good enough evidence. Because it's male dominated and they have to deal with male egos. Would you take a negotiation on a multi-million/billion dollar cause seriously if a woman represented the other firm? Probably not. But a male counterpart would probably get that deal done and have the respect of the other party. It's as simple as that. Women aren't less effective at those things, they are viewed that way. You're a prime example of why it's so hard for them to get their fair due in the corporate world. Uhhh, you're aware that there are women CEOs, and still 30% of the consulting business is women, right? Clearly, women can compete with and outperform men. There are female partners at consulting firms, and female directors as well. The issue is I raised is whether they do so on average. If cultural and biological factors don't affect genders differently, why are so many college majors so imbalanced along gender lines (when each person chooses what to study)? On July 20 2017 09:04 Plansix wrote:On July 20 2017 08:56 Danglars wrote:On July 20 2017 08:52 mozoku wrote:On July 20 2017 08:30 KwarK wrote:
Not sure if sarcastic or genuinely asking why nobody has started a company with a business plan reading "hire women, pay them less". Why is that any more ridiculous than "hire H1-Bs, pay them less"? If the level of extremity for some reason bothers you (as opposed to just being condescending), why are consulting firms male-dominated? By far the largest cost in that business is people, but consultants at the Big 3 have 70/30 male/female gender splits. Reverse that to 30/70, pay them 10% less, and you've reduced your total labor costs by 4.2%. Seems like an obvious move, doesn't it?My eyes don't tell me that sexism is causing women to be paid less. My brain tells me that women often take a career gap mid-career, are (on average) less aggressive in social situations (unfavorable in most occupations), and culturally are less pressured to be career-driven. Women are, on average, better at multitasking but worse at focusing exclusively on a single task (i.e. work). These are real cultural and biological factors that would presumably affect women's pay in the aggregate. Why is it necessarily "sexism" instead of these factors that explain the pay gap? "I see it with my eyes" is not good enough evidence. TBH that third paragraph on "less aggressive," "worse at focusing," and "biological factors" is enough to be called a sexist in Southern California circles. The female attorneys I work for agree that it is pretty sexist. Let them. If they're offended because they don't understand how an individual's traits and abilities are different from the average of individuals' traits and abilities, that's their own problem. Not society's. I never said that your coworkers were less aggressive or worse at multitasking because they're female. No, the issue you raised was that women should be paid less for the same amount of work. And if H1-B visa was the same thing, then it should be used in place of women. Those visas are for foreign workers coming here on a temporary basis. Not women in the workforce trying to support themselves and a family. You're cherry picking the narrative to suit your needs. I never said they should be paid less for the same work. What I said is that there are cultural and biological factors that plausibly may cause women to be slightly less productive workers, in the aggregate. For that reason, they may be valued less on average by businesses. That says nothing about what an individual woman's worth in the market is relative to the average man. They can be worth far more or far less. The variance of a worker's productivity is nearly entirely within gender, not between gender. To assert that the between gender variance is zero conflicts with the fact that there's measurable differences between genders in everything else. It's simply false on its face. I don't support any kind of discrimination based on race, sex, sexual orientation because it doesn't make any sense. People should be paid what they're worth. If sexism is indeed the reason are paid less, then that's nonsense and needs to be fixed. But that needs to be clearly established before we start passing laws, unless they're being passed merely for political purposes. Go back and read the first paragraph you wrote. You literally said to substitute the men for women, pay them less, and reduce cost of paying personnel. Or are you saying pay the men 10% less? Because that isn't what you typed. Either way, you're still advocating for paying women less than men for the same work being done. What he was saying is that if the wage gap is as big as advertised, it would make no sense to have a man hired for a job when you could have a woman in that position. With equal competency, you'd get the same product for cheaper. Like mentioned a few pages ago with sometimes what is best from a capitalistic stance isn't always ethical. I understand that. What I'm saying is that it's sexist to do that and then claim "capitalism made me do it." You pay the same for the work being done, regardless of sex. If a woman made more than simply because she was a woman, I'd argue the same thing.
In theory, if firms made more money by hiring "cheap female labor", then the demand for "cheap female labor" would rise until the price of female labor was the same as male labor.
|
I think that the current opinion on the pay gap is that a very large portion of it is explained by women taking a few years off to raise a child, while men are far less likely to do it. Any gap in work is going to depress wages.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
