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United States24740 Posts
On June 15 2017 12:16 Danglars wrote:
I mean for god's sakes Comey might have even committed a crime leaking government property.
I've heard this proposed by @realDonaldTrump but I haven't been told anywhere what crime Comey might have committed. Do you know?
Why are Trump and his supporters discussing how it might have been a crime? Either what he released was legal to release, or it was not. I just can't wrap my head around what makes it illegal. If the president calls me while I'm at work in my government job, and tells me "the sky is red" and I write down "trump said the sky is read on x date and time on a phone call with me" and then 'leak' that memo, is that illegal? If not, then obviously the content of the released information must have been illegal to release (e.g., classified), otherwise Comey couldn't have committed a crime by leaking his memo. So, what information was in the memo that was illegal to release to the public? Perhaps it's illegal to release information Trump says that makes Trump sound bad?
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On June 15 2017 12:11 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2017 09:26 biology]major wrote:On June 15 2017 09:17 Danglars wrote:On June 15 2017 08:54 biology]major wrote:
That's the thing, we have an idiot president who is going out of his way to out do his own idiocy at every turn and a bureaucracy that is invested in bringing him down. They are both happening simultaneously, and this time, I don't give a damn if the deepstate or the boogeyman takes trump down. We get pence, a much more polished politician, and we already have Gorsuch. Tax reform, healthcare are dependent on congress anyways so Trump is a net negative to the USA as of right now. So you would count as allies a bureaucracy gunning to depose its boss because you favor the outcome of Trump leaving office? I'm a bit horrified at that application of the ends justify the means. We also get an emboldened 4th branch that provably can claim a scalp that elected officials cannot ... which is a far greater threat to the Republic and democracy than you realize. Trump could have played his hand as 45 a million times better, won over both democrats and republicans, and made real change. He has all branches of government on his side. Instead he squanders an opportunity, disgraces the office with his constant lies and hypocrisy, and has not a single shred of decency. Why would I feel sorry for this buffoon? He was given a chance of a lifetime, and has so far been a crooked mess. Sad! I wouldn't even mind if he was just bad at his job, it's his blatant immorality that irks me. Sure he might not have done anything illegal, but crooked trump and crooked hillary are both cut from same cloth. One has the temperament of a child and the other a grown woman. I'm with DEB & xDaunt on that one. He couldn't have had the bureaucracy on his side; he was elected to shake it up and his entire brash character was aimed at upsetting the established order of the agencies. It should also be clear that his campaign promise of a temporary travel ban did not put the courts on his side; who have so much unrestrained activism that they think foreign policy is under judicial purview (but we've probably covered that one enough in this thread already). He took TONS of shots at establishment Republicans before joining hands on this and that, so you could also make the argument that the legislature was against him from the start, though it's so fractionally divided anyways that it's of weaker significance. No, no, and no, impossible! And don't flee to "feel sorry," I neither implied it nor ask it. I say instead you are foolish to join a dangerous party to unseat Trump. Do you have anything to say about the main point of the post you quoted?
You know, reading you, sometimes I wonder : what will it take for you to admit that Trump is a disgraceful, dishonest incompetent fool that ridicules his function and that this administration is a giant shitshow?
To paraphrase Cooper, at that point it looks like Trump could go to your place and take a dump on your desk, you would defend him.
I voted for a guy in France in 2012 who ended up being a pathetically weak, spineless president. Well I fucked it up. He was from my party, but he and his government were shit, and I won't vote for the PS until his goons have been cleared up because they clearly can't run a country. Is it too much cognitive dissonance for you to endure to admit your guy is a fucking disaster?
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On June 15 2017 19:23 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2017 12:16 Danglars wrote:
I mean for god's sakes Comey might have even committed a crime leaking government property. I've heard this proposed by @realDonaldTrump but I haven't been told anywhere what crime Comey might have committed. Do you know? Why are Trump and his supporters discussing how it might have been a crime? Either what he released was legal to release, or it was not. I just can't wrap my head around what makes it illegal. If the president calls me while I'm at work in my government job, and tells me "the sky is red" and I write down "trump said the sky is read on x date and time on a phone call with me" and then 'leak' that memo, is that illegal? If not, then obviously the content of the released information must have been illegal to release (e.g., classified), otherwise Comey couldn't have committed a crime by leaking his memo. So, what information was in the memo that was illegal to release to the public? Perhaps it's illegal to release information Trump says that makes Trump sound bad?
Trump doing all sorts of concerning, inappropriate and downright awful things: 'Yeah but look it's legal, where are the charges? Where are the charges? '
Comey sharing his own memos because he's concerned of said inappropriate behavior and about the whole Russian influence campaign in general 'Oh no what a criminal lock him up'
Trump flaming people for years based on nothing but his gut feeling. 'finally someone who says it how it is'
Trump getting criticized for his actions that have serious concequences for diplomacy or peoples well being: 'biggest witchhunt ever in history, people have no morals anymore'
When fucking Infowars is thought of as a legit source then all logic is just out of the window. It's really depressing.
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Says the guy whose main campaign chant was "lock her up". This is so sad.
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We should treat him like a witch then. How did that catch 22 go? Throw him in the water... If he drowns he's innocent but if he floats/ swims he's a witch so we should burn him?
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And his earlier tweet on the matter :
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On June 15 2017 19:28 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2017 12:11 Danglars wrote:On June 15 2017 09:26 biology]major wrote:On June 15 2017 09:17 Danglars wrote:On June 15 2017 08:54 biology]major wrote:
That's the thing, we have an idiot president who is going out of his way to out do his own idiocy at every turn and a bureaucracy that is invested in bringing him down. They are both happening simultaneously, and this time, I don't give a damn if the deepstate or the boogeyman takes trump down. We get pence, a much more polished politician, and we already have Gorsuch. Tax reform, healthcare are dependent on congress anyways so Trump is a net negative to the USA as of right now. So you would count as allies a bureaucracy gunning to depose its boss because you favor the outcome of Trump leaving office? I'm a bit horrified at that application of the ends justify the means. We also get an emboldened 4th branch that provably can claim a scalp that elected officials cannot ... which is a far greater threat to the Republic and democracy than you realize. Trump could have played his hand as 45 a million times better, won over both democrats and republicans, and made real change. He has all branches of government on his side. Instead he squanders an opportunity, disgraces the office with his constant lies and hypocrisy, and has not a single shred of decency. Why would I feel sorry for this buffoon? He was given a chance of a lifetime, and has so far been a crooked mess. Sad! I wouldn't even mind if he was just bad at his job, it's his blatant immorality that irks me. Sure he might not have done anything illegal, but crooked trump and crooked hillary are both cut from same cloth. One has the temperament of a child and the other a grown woman. I'm with DEB & xDaunt on that one. He couldn't have had the bureaucracy on his side; he was elected to shake it up and his entire brash character was aimed at upsetting the established order of the agencies. It should also be clear that his campaign promise of a temporary travel ban did not put the courts on his side; who have so much unrestrained activism that they think foreign policy is under judicial purview (but we've probably covered that one enough in this thread already). He took TONS of shots at establishment Republicans before joining hands on this and that, so you could also make the argument that the legislature was against him from the start, though it's so fractionally divided anyways that it's of weaker significance. No, no, and no, impossible! And don't flee to "feel sorry," I neither implied it nor ask it. I say instead you are foolish to join a dangerous party to unseat Trump. Do you have anything to say about the main point of the post you quoted? You know, reading you, sometimes I wonder : what will it take for you to admit that Trump is a disgraceful, dishonest incompetent fool that ridicules his function and that this administration is a giant shitshow? To paraphrase Cooper, at that point it looks like Trump could go to your place and take a dump on your desk, you would defend him. I voted for a guy in France in 2012 who ended up being a pathetically weak, spineless president. Well I fucked it up. He was from my party, but he and his government were shit, and I won't vote for the PS until his goons have been cleared up because they clearly can't run a country. Is it too much cognitive dissonance for you to endure to admit your guy is a fucking disaster?
You have more than two parties. It is easier to admit that one of those was shit, and find another one.
In the US system, if you admit that your party is shit, you have to support THE ENEMY!!!, which is a lot harder than just supporting someone else that you didn't exactly support before, but who you also didn't really fight.
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On June 15 2017 22:02 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2017 19:28 Biff The Understudy wrote:On June 15 2017 12:11 Danglars wrote:On June 15 2017 09:26 biology]major wrote:On June 15 2017 09:17 Danglars wrote:On June 15 2017 08:54 biology]major wrote:
That's the thing, we have an idiot president who is going out of his way to out do his own idiocy at every turn and a bureaucracy that is invested in bringing him down. They are both happening simultaneously, and this time, I don't give a damn if the deepstate or the boogeyman takes trump down. We get pence, a much more polished politician, and we already have Gorsuch. Tax reform, healthcare are dependent on congress anyways so Trump is a net negative to the USA as of right now. So you would count as allies a bureaucracy gunning to depose its boss because you favor the outcome of Trump leaving office? I'm a bit horrified at that application of the ends justify the means. We also get an emboldened 4th branch that provably can claim a scalp that elected officials cannot ... which is a far greater threat to the Republic and democracy than you realize. Trump could have played his hand as 45 a million times better, won over both democrats and republicans, and made real change. He has all branches of government on his side. Instead he squanders an opportunity, disgraces the office with his constant lies and hypocrisy, and has not a single shred of decency. Why would I feel sorry for this buffoon? He was given a chance of a lifetime, and has so far been a crooked mess. Sad! I wouldn't even mind if he was just bad at his job, it's his blatant immorality that irks me. Sure he might not have done anything illegal, but crooked trump and crooked hillary are both cut from same cloth. One has the temperament of a child and the other a grown woman. I'm with DEB & xDaunt on that one. He couldn't have had the bureaucracy on his side; he was elected to shake it up and his entire brash character was aimed at upsetting the established order of the agencies. It should also be clear that his campaign promise of a temporary travel ban did not put the courts on his side; who have so much unrestrained activism that they think foreign policy is under judicial purview (but we've probably covered that one enough in this thread already). He took TONS of shots at establishment Republicans before joining hands on this and that, so you could also make the argument that the legislature was against him from the start, though it's so fractionally divided anyways that it's of weaker significance. No, no, and no, impossible! And don't flee to "feel sorry," I neither implied it nor ask it. I say instead you are foolish to join a dangerous party to unseat Trump. Do you have anything to say about the main point of the post you quoted? You know, reading you, sometimes I wonder : what will it take for you to admit that Trump is a disgraceful, dishonest incompetent fool that ridicules his function and that this administration is a giant shitshow? To paraphrase Cooper, at that point it looks like Trump could go to your place and take a dump on your desk, you would defend him. I voted for a guy in France in 2012 who ended up being a pathetically weak, spineless president. Well I fucked it up. He was from my party, but he and his government were shit, and I won't vote for the PS until his goons have been cleared up because they clearly can't run a country. Is it too much cognitive dissonance for you to endure to admit your guy is a fucking disaster? You have more than two parties. It is easier to admit that one of those was shit, and find another one. In the US system, if you admit that your party is shit, you have to support THE ENEMY!!!, which is a lot harder than just supporting someone else that you didn't exactly support before, but who you also didn't really fight.
Well Trump was the closest we've gotten to having a true 3rd party president, and look how it's working out. Every time we inch closer to having a solid victory for some 3rd party here, I wish we hadn't lol.
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On June 15 2017 22:02 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2017 19:28 Biff The Understudy wrote:On June 15 2017 12:11 Danglars wrote:On June 15 2017 09:26 biology]major wrote:On June 15 2017 09:17 Danglars wrote:On June 15 2017 08:54 biology]major wrote:
That's the thing, we have an idiot president who is going out of his way to out do his own idiocy at every turn and a bureaucracy that is invested in bringing him down. They are both happening simultaneously, and this time, I don't give a damn if the deepstate or the boogeyman takes trump down. We get pence, a much more polished politician, and we already have Gorsuch. Tax reform, healthcare are dependent on congress anyways so Trump is a net negative to the USA as of right now. So you would count as allies a bureaucracy gunning to depose its boss because you favor the outcome of Trump leaving office? I'm a bit horrified at that application of the ends justify the means. We also get an emboldened 4th branch that provably can claim a scalp that elected officials cannot ... which is a far greater threat to the Republic and democracy than you realize. Trump could have played his hand as 45 a million times better, won over both democrats and republicans, and made real change. He has all branches of government on his side. Instead he squanders an opportunity, disgraces the office with his constant lies and hypocrisy, and has not a single shred of decency. Why would I feel sorry for this buffoon? He was given a chance of a lifetime, and has so far been a crooked mess. Sad! I wouldn't even mind if he was just bad at his job, it's his blatant immorality that irks me. Sure he might not have done anything illegal, but crooked trump and crooked hillary are both cut from same cloth. One has the temperament of a child and the other a grown woman. I'm with DEB & xDaunt on that one. He couldn't have had the bureaucracy on his side; he was elected to shake it up and his entire brash character was aimed at upsetting the established order of the agencies. It should also be clear that his campaign promise of a temporary travel ban did not put the courts on his side; who have so much unrestrained activism that they think foreign policy is under judicial purview (but we've probably covered that one enough in this thread already). He took TONS of shots at establishment Republicans before joining hands on this and that, so you could also make the argument that the legislature was against him from the start, though it's so fractionally divided anyways that it's of weaker significance. No, no, and no, impossible! And don't flee to "feel sorry," I neither implied it nor ask it. I say instead you are foolish to join a dangerous party to unseat Trump. Do you have anything to say about the main point of the post you quoted? You know, reading you, sometimes I wonder : what will it take for you to admit that Trump is a disgraceful, dishonest incompetent fool that ridicules his function and that this administration is a giant shitshow? To paraphrase Cooper, at that point it looks like Trump could go to your place and take a dump on your desk, you would defend him. I voted for a guy in France in 2012 who ended up being a pathetically weak, spineless president. Well I fucked it up. He was from my party, but he and his government were shit, and I won't vote for the PS until his goons have been cleared up because they clearly can't run a country. Is it too much cognitive dissonance for you to endure to admit your guy is a fucking disaster? You have more than two parties. It is easier to admit that one of those was shit, and find another one. In the US system, if you admit that your party is shit, you have to support THE ENEMY!!!, which is a lot harder than just supporting someone else that you didn't exactly support before, but who you also didn't really fight.
I don't ask anyone to support the democrats or Clinton. I ask him to stop being a partisan bot and look at what is in fromt of his eyes, which that the potus is a fucking disaster and that his administration is a hellish mess of incompetence and stupidity. One can do that while keeping hating liberals with his guts, it's really not exclusive. Hollande's disastrous presidency (which was still a miracle of efficiency, intelligence, coherence and professionalism compared to Trump's) didn't make me like the french right wing one bit more. I just think Hollande and his government sucked and decided never to give those people my voice again.
I'm sure for example that Biology Major will vote Republican in the future. But his ability to be critical when his side is displaying such a shitshow just proves his intellectual integrity.
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On June 15 2017 22:09 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2017 22:02 Simberto wrote:On June 15 2017 19:28 Biff The Understudy wrote:On June 15 2017 12:11 Danglars wrote:On June 15 2017 09:26 biology]major wrote:On June 15 2017 09:17 Danglars wrote:On June 15 2017 08:54 biology]major wrote:
That's the thing, we have an idiot president who is going out of his way to out do his own idiocy at every turn and a bureaucracy that is invested in bringing him down. They are both happening simultaneously, and this time, I don't give a damn if the deepstate or the boogeyman takes trump down. We get pence, a much more polished politician, and we already have Gorsuch. Tax reform, healthcare are dependent on congress anyways so Trump is a net negative to the USA as of right now. So you would count as allies a bureaucracy gunning to depose its boss because you favor the outcome of Trump leaving office? I'm a bit horrified at that application of the ends justify the means. We also get an emboldened 4th branch that provably can claim a scalp that elected officials cannot ... which is a far greater threat to the Republic and democracy than you realize. Trump could have played his hand as 45 a million times better, won over both democrats and republicans, and made real change. He has all branches of government on his side. Instead he squanders an opportunity, disgraces the office with his constant lies and hypocrisy, and has not a single shred of decency. Why would I feel sorry for this buffoon? He was given a chance of a lifetime, and has so far been a crooked mess. Sad! I wouldn't even mind if he was just bad at his job, it's his blatant immorality that irks me. Sure he might not have done anything illegal, but crooked trump and crooked hillary are both cut from same cloth. One has the temperament of a child and the other a grown woman. I'm with DEB & xDaunt on that one. He couldn't have had the bureaucracy on his side; he was elected to shake it up and his entire brash character was aimed at upsetting the established order of the agencies. It should also be clear that his campaign promise of a temporary travel ban did not put the courts on his side; who have so much unrestrained activism that they think foreign policy is under judicial purview (but we've probably covered that one enough in this thread already). He took TONS of shots at establishment Republicans before joining hands on this and that, so you could also make the argument that the legislature was against him from the start, though it's so fractionally divided anyways that it's of weaker significance. No, no, and no, impossible! And don't flee to "feel sorry," I neither implied it nor ask it. I say instead you are foolish to join a dangerous party to unseat Trump. Do you have anything to say about the main point of the post you quoted? You know, reading you, sometimes I wonder : what will it take for you to admit that Trump is a disgraceful, dishonest incompetent fool that ridicules his function and that this administration is a giant shitshow? To paraphrase Cooper, at that point it looks like Trump could go to your place and take a dump on your desk, you would defend him. I voted for a guy in France in 2012 who ended up being a pathetically weak, spineless president. Well I fucked it up. He was from my party, but he and his government were shit, and I won't vote for the PS until his goons have been cleared up because they clearly can't run a country. Is it too much cognitive dissonance for you to endure to admit your guy is a fucking disaster? You have more than two parties. It is easier to admit that one of those was shit, and find another one. In the US system, if you admit that your party is shit, you have to support THE ENEMY!!!, which is a lot harder than just supporting someone else that you didn't exactly support before, but who you also didn't really fight. Well Trump was the closest we've gotten to having a true 3rd party president, and look how it's working out. Every time we inch closer to having a solid victory for some 3rd party here, I wish we hadn't lol.
Third parties in the US seem to shoot the moon and always go for the big office first, rather than slow roll it by taking over a state through local elections. Every four years they decide “this is our time” and run for one office, even though we hold elections every 2 years for 500+ seats at the table.
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On June 15 2017 22:15 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2017 22:09 NewSunshine wrote:On June 15 2017 22:02 Simberto wrote:On June 15 2017 19:28 Biff The Understudy wrote:On June 15 2017 12:11 Danglars wrote:On June 15 2017 09:26 biology]major wrote:On June 15 2017 09:17 Danglars wrote:On June 15 2017 08:54 biology]major wrote:
That's the thing, we have an idiot president who is going out of his way to out do his own idiocy at every turn and a bureaucracy that is invested in bringing him down. They are both happening simultaneously, and this time, I don't give a damn if the deepstate or the boogeyman takes trump down. We get pence, a much more polished politician, and we already have Gorsuch. Tax reform, healthcare are dependent on congress anyways so Trump is a net negative to the USA as of right now. So you would count as allies a bureaucracy gunning to depose its boss because you favor the outcome of Trump leaving office? I'm a bit horrified at that application of the ends justify the means. We also get an emboldened 4th branch that provably can claim a scalp that elected officials cannot ... which is a far greater threat to the Republic and democracy than you realize. Trump could have played his hand as 45 a million times better, won over both democrats and republicans, and made real change. He has all branches of government on his side. Instead he squanders an opportunity, disgraces the office with his constant lies and hypocrisy, and has not a single shred of decency. Why would I feel sorry for this buffoon? He was given a chance of a lifetime, and has so far been a crooked mess. Sad! I wouldn't even mind if he was just bad at his job, it's his blatant immorality that irks me. Sure he might not have done anything illegal, but crooked trump and crooked hillary are both cut from same cloth. One has the temperament of a child and the other a grown woman. I'm with DEB & xDaunt on that one. He couldn't have had the bureaucracy on his side; he was elected to shake it up and his entire brash character was aimed at upsetting the established order of the agencies. It should also be clear that his campaign promise of a temporary travel ban did not put the courts on his side; who have so much unrestrained activism that they think foreign policy is under judicial purview (but we've probably covered that one enough in this thread already). He took TONS of shots at establishment Republicans before joining hands on this and that, so you could also make the argument that the legislature was against him from the start, though it's so fractionally divided anyways that it's of weaker significance. No, no, and no, impossible! And don't flee to "feel sorry," I neither implied it nor ask it. I say instead you are foolish to join a dangerous party to unseat Trump. Do you have anything to say about the main point of the post you quoted? You know, reading you, sometimes I wonder : what will it take for you to admit that Trump is a disgraceful, dishonest incompetent fool that ridicules his function and that this administration is a giant shitshow? To paraphrase Cooper, at that point it looks like Trump could go to your place and take a dump on your desk, you would defend him. I voted for a guy in France in 2012 who ended up being a pathetically weak, spineless president. Well I fucked it up. He was from my party, but he and his government were shit, and I won't vote for the PS until his goons have been cleared up because they clearly can't run a country. Is it too much cognitive dissonance for you to endure to admit your guy is a fucking disaster? You have more than two parties. It is easier to admit that one of those was shit, and find another one. In the US system, if you admit that your party is shit, you have to support THE ENEMY!!!, which is a lot harder than just supporting someone else that you didn't exactly support before, but who you also didn't really fight. Well Trump was the closest we've gotten to having a true 3rd party president, and look how it's working out. Every time we inch closer to having a solid victory for some 3rd party here, I wish we hadn't lol. Third parties in the US seem to shoot the moon and always go for the big office first, rather than slow roll it by taking over a state through local elections. Every four years they decide “this is our time” and run for one office, even though we hold elections every 2 years for 500+ seats at the table.
there's a couple different kinds of 3rd parties; which help to explain this.
one reason for this is that some of the 3rd parties are mostly one significant individual running a major campaign, and the party forms around them; so they're looking to make a major gain for themselves; whereas some other 3rd parties are more a large group of individuals without so much of a key figure, so it's easier to try for smaller offices.
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On June 15 2017 22:15 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2017 22:09 NewSunshine wrote:On June 15 2017 22:02 Simberto wrote:On June 15 2017 19:28 Biff The Understudy wrote:On June 15 2017 12:11 Danglars wrote:On June 15 2017 09:26 biology]major wrote:On June 15 2017 09:17 Danglars wrote:On June 15 2017 08:54 biology]major wrote:
That's the thing, we have an idiot president who is going out of his way to out do his own idiocy at every turn and a bureaucracy that is invested in bringing him down. They are both happening simultaneously, and this time, I don't give a damn if the deepstate or the boogeyman takes trump down. We get pence, a much more polished politician, and we already have Gorsuch. Tax reform, healthcare are dependent on congress anyways so Trump is a net negative to the USA as of right now. So you would count as allies a bureaucracy gunning to depose its boss because you favor the outcome of Trump leaving office? I'm a bit horrified at that application of the ends justify the means. We also get an emboldened 4th branch that provably can claim a scalp that elected officials cannot ... which is a far greater threat to the Republic and democracy than you realize. Trump could have played his hand as 45 a million times better, won over both democrats and republicans, and made real change. He has all branches of government on his side. Instead he squanders an opportunity, disgraces the office with his constant lies and hypocrisy, and has not a single shred of decency. Why would I feel sorry for this buffoon? He was given a chance of a lifetime, and has so far been a crooked mess. Sad! I wouldn't even mind if he was just bad at his job, it's his blatant immorality that irks me. Sure he might not have done anything illegal, but crooked trump and crooked hillary are both cut from same cloth. One has the temperament of a child and the other a grown woman. I'm with DEB & xDaunt on that one. He couldn't have had the bureaucracy on his side; he was elected to shake it up and his entire brash character was aimed at upsetting the established order of the agencies. It should also be clear that his campaign promise of a temporary travel ban did not put the courts on his side; who have so much unrestrained activism that they think foreign policy is under judicial purview (but we've probably covered that one enough in this thread already). He took TONS of shots at establishment Republicans before joining hands on this and that, so you could also make the argument that the legislature was against him from the start, though it's so fractionally divided anyways that it's of weaker significance. No, no, and no, impossible! And don't flee to "feel sorry," I neither implied it nor ask it. I say instead you are foolish to join a dangerous party to unseat Trump. Do you have anything to say about the main point of the post you quoted? You know, reading you, sometimes I wonder : what will it take for you to admit that Trump is a disgraceful, dishonest incompetent fool that ridicules his function and that this administration is a giant shitshow? To paraphrase Cooper, at that point it looks like Trump could go to your place and take a dump on your desk, you would defend him. I voted for a guy in France in 2012 who ended up being a pathetically weak, spineless president. Well I fucked it up. He was from my party, but he and his government were shit, and I won't vote for the PS until his goons have been cleared up because they clearly can't run a country. Is it too much cognitive dissonance for you to endure to admit your guy is a fucking disaster? You have more than two parties. It is easier to admit that one of those was shit, and find another one. In the US system, if you admit that your party is shit, you have to support THE ENEMY!!!, which is a lot harder than just supporting someone else that you didn't exactly support before, but who you also didn't really fight. Well Trump was the closest we've gotten to having a true 3rd party president, and look how it's working out. Every time we inch closer to having a solid victory for some 3rd party here, I wish we hadn't lol. Third parties in the US seem to shoot the moon and always go for the big office first, rather than slow roll it by taking over a state through local elections. Every four years they decide “this is our time” and run for one office, even though we hold elections every 2 years for 500+ seats at the table.
The Tea Party went for the latter approach and had amazing success, its astonishing that no one has looked at what they accomplished and said hey lets do that...
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Looks like we're about to be at War with Australia now...
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I honestly don't know what to think of Trump anymore. All through the campaign and early presidency I was convinced that he's way smarter than he lets on and is simply acting crazy as part of the game. Distract folks from legislation he's passing, keep the media obsessing over stupid comments rather than anything of substance... etc. I just couldn't accept the idea that he somehow Mr. Magoo'd his way into the highest office in the land.
Now it feels like he's been a monkey the whole time and the party just propped him up as a distraction while they do their thing.
I'm still fairly convinced they'll toss him after midterms to save the GOP's reputation and blame everything on Trump the "conman" while propping up their next "maverick outsider."
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On June 15 2017 22:25 Trainrunnef wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2017 22:15 Plansix wrote:On June 15 2017 22:09 NewSunshine wrote:On June 15 2017 22:02 Simberto wrote:On June 15 2017 19:28 Biff The Understudy wrote:On June 15 2017 12:11 Danglars wrote:On June 15 2017 09:26 biology]major wrote:On June 15 2017 09:17 Danglars wrote:On June 15 2017 08:54 biology]major wrote:
That's the thing, we have an idiot president who is going out of his way to out do his own idiocy at every turn and a bureaucracy that is invested in bringing him down. They are both happening simultaneously, and this time, I don't give a damn if the deepstate or the boogeyman takes trump down. We get pence, a much more polished politician, and we already have Gorsuch. Tax reform, healthcare are dependent on congress anyways so Trump is a net negative to the USA as of right now. So you would count as allies a bureaucracy gunning to depose its boss because you favor the outcome of Trump leaving office? I'm a bit horrified at that application of the ends justify the means. We also get an emboldened 4th branch that provably can claim a scalp that elected officials cannot ... which is a far greater threat to the Republic and democracy than you realize. Trump could have played his hand as 45 a million times better, won over both democrats and republicans, and made real change. He has all branches of government on his side. Instead he squanders an opportunity, disgraces the office with his constant lies and hypocrisy, and has not a single shred of decency. Why would I feel sorry for this buffoon? He was given a chance of a lifetime, and has so far been a crooked mess. Sad! I wouldn't even mind if he was just bad at his job, it's his blatant immorality that irks me. Sure he might not have done anything illegal, but crooked trump and crooked hillary are both cut from same cloth. One has the temperament of a child and the other a grown woman. I'm with DEB & xDaunt on that one. He couldn't have had the bureaucracy on his side; he was elected to shake it up and his entire brash character was aimed at upsetting the established order of the agencies. It should also be clear that his campaign promise of a temporary travel ban did not put the courts on his side; who have so much unrestrained activism that they think foreign policy is under judicial purview (but we've probably covered that one enough in this thread already). He took TONS of shots at establishment Republicans before joining hands on this and that, so you could also make the argument that the legislature was against him from the start, though it's so fractionally divided anyways that it's of weaker significance. No, no, and no, impossible! And don't flee to "feel sorry," I neither implied it nor ask it. I say instead you are foolish to join a dangerous party to unseat Trump. Do you have anything to say about the main point of the post you quoted? You know, reading you, sometimes I wonder : what will it take for you to admit that Trump is a disgraceful, dishonest incompetent fool that ridicules his function and that this administration is a giant shitshow? To paraphrase Cooper, at that point it looks like Trump could go to your place and take a dump on your desk, you would defend him. I voted for a guy in France in 2012 who ended up being a pathetically weak, spineless president. Well I fucked it up. He was from my party, but he and his government were shit, and I won't vote for the PS until his goons have been cleared up because they clearly can't run a country. Is it too much cognitive dissonance for you to endure to admit your guy is a fucking disaster? You have more than two parties. It is easier to admit that one of those was shit, and find another one. In the US system, if you admit that your party is shit, you have to support THE ENEMY!!!, which is a lot harder than just supporting someone else that you didn't exactly support before, but who you also didn't really fight. Well Trump was the closest we've gotten to having a true 3rd party president, and look how it's working out. Every time we inch closer to having a solid victory for some 3rd party here, I wish we hadn't lol. Third parties in the US seem to shoot the moon and always go for the big office first, rather than slow roll it by taking over a state through local elections. Every four years they decide “this is our time” and run for one office, even though we hold elections every 2 years for 500+ seats at the table. The Tea Party went for the latter approach and had amazing success, its astonishing that no one has looked at what they accomplished and said hey lets do that...
The tea party is an example of a close to single issue party. Their candidates focus on one issue, which is opposing government expansion and lowering taxes/spending. And from what I can tell, that is all their voters care about. But I also get the impression they have no idea how that tea party formed and why it was successful. I would love it if the left had a faction that formed around a singular issue like election reform.
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It makes me sad when I think about how well Obama handled jokes about himself. He made them work for him by turning them into bonding moments, be it with other leaders, or just ordinary people. He laughed with you. The man had charisma, and if nothing else Trump's presidency is making me appreciate him like never before. You can see how uncomfortable he is, almost trying to squirm out of his seat. sigh
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On June 15 2017 22:45 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2017 22:25 Trainrunnef wrote:On June 15 2017 22:15 Plansix wrote:On June 15 2017 22:09 NewSunshine wrote:On June 15 2017 22:02 Simberto wrote:On June 15 2017 19:28 Biff The Understudy wrote:On June 15 2017 12:11 Danglars wrote:On June 15 2017 09:26 biology]major wrote:On June 15 2017 09:17 Danglars wrote:On June 15 2017 08:54 biology]major wrote:
That's the thing, we have an idiot president who is going out of his way to out do his own idiocy at every turn and a bureaucracy that is invested in bringing him down. They are both happening simultaneously, and this time, I don't give a damn if the deepstate or the boogeyman takes trump down. We get pence, a much more polished politician, and we already have Gorsuch. Tax reform, healthcare are dependent on congress anyways so Trump is a net negative to the USA as of right now. So you would count as allies a bureaucracy gunning to depose its boss because you favor the outcome of Trump leaving office? I'm a bit horrified at that application of the ends justify the means. We also get an emboldened 4th branch that provably can claim a scalp that elected officials cannot ... which is a far greater threat to the Republic and democracy than you realize. Trump could have played his hand as 45 a million times better, won over both democrats and republicans, and made real change. He has all branches of government on his side. Instead he squanders an opportunity, disgraces the office with his constant lies and hypocrisy, and has not a single shred of decency. Why would I feel sorry for this buffoon? He was given a chance of a lifetime, and has so far been a crooked mess. Sad! I wouldn't even mind if he was just bad at his job, it's his blatant immorality that irks me. Sure he might not have done anything illegal, but crooked trump and crooked hillary are both cut from same cloth. One has the temperament of a child and the other a grown woman. I'm with DEB & xDaunt on that one. He couldn't have had the bureaucracy on his side; he was elected to shake it up and his entire brash character was aimed at upsetting the established order of the agencies. It should also be clear that his campaign promise of a temporary travel ban did not put the courts on his side; who have so much unrestrained activism that they think foreign policy is under judicial purview (but we've probably covered that one enough in this thread already). He took TONS of shots at establishment Republicans before joining hands on this and that, so you could also make the argument that the legislature was against him from the start, though it's so fractionally divided anyways that it's of weaker significance. No, no, and no, impossible! And don't flee to "feel sorry," I neither implied it nor ask it. I say instead you are foolish to join a dangerous party to unseat Trump. Do you have anything to say about the main point of the post you quoted? You know, reading you, sometimes I wonder : what will it take for you to admit that Trump is a disgraceful, dishonest incompetent fool that ridicules his function and that this administration is a giant shitshow? To paraphrase Cooper, at that point it looks like Trump could go to your place and take a dump on your desk, you would defend him. I voted for a guy in France in 2012 who ended up being a pathetically weak, spineless president. Well I fucked it up. He was from my party, but he and his government were shit, and I won't vote for the PS until his goons have been cleared up because they clearly can't run a country. Is it too much cognitive dissonance for you to endure to admit your guy is a fucking disaster? You have more than two parties. It is easier to admit that one of those was shit, and find another one. In the US system, if you admit that your party is shit, you have to support THE ENEMY!!!, which is a lot harder than just supporting someone else that you didn't exactly support before, but who you also didn't really fight. Well Trump was the closest we've gotten to having a true 3rd party president, and look how it's working out. Every time we inch closer to having a solid victory for some 3rd party here, I wish we hadn't lol. Third parties in the US seem to shoot the moon and always go for the big office first, rather than slow roll it by taking over a state through local elections. Every four years they decide “this is our time” and run for one office, even though we hold elections every 2 years for 500+ seats at the table. The Tea Party went for the latter approach and had amazing success, its astonishing that no one has looked at what they accomplished and said hey lets do that... The tea party is an example of a close to single issue party. Their candidates focus on one issue, which is opposing government expansion and lowering taxes/spending. And from what I can tell, that is all their voters care about. But I also get the impression they have no idea how that tea party formed and why it was successful. I would love it if the left had a faction that formed around a singular issue like election reform.
I think the difficulty there is that the left would have a harder time defining a singular end goal. For the Tea Party "smaller federal government, lower taxes" is a single conceptual end goal that they can collectively focus on. Defining the end goal of "election reform" would be much more difficult.
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On June 15 2017 22:34 Haemonculus wrote:
I honestly don't know what to think of Trump anymore. All through the campaign and early presidency I was convinced that he's way smarter than he lets on and is simply acting crazy as part of the game. Distract folks from legislation he's passing, keep the media obsessing over stupid comments rather than anything of substance... etc. I just couldn't accept the idea that he somehow Mr. Magoo'd his way into the highest office in the land.
Now it feels like he's been a monkey the whole time and the party just propped him up as a distraction while they do their thing.
I'm still fairly convinced they'll toss him after midterms to save the GOP's reputation and blame everything on Trump the "conman" while propping up their next "maverick outsider."
the party didn't really prop him up; so much as had him forced upon them. He's basically taking some of the stuff they said to get votes but didn't really mean (or knew wasn't viable), and actually meaning it. or taking the stuff they hinted at but never said explicitly and saying it explicitly.
I haven't seen enough Mr Magoo to say if that comparison is apt; but from what I've seen of tv in general, it may well be.
do you want feedback/thoughts on anything in particular to help you come to an assessment?
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http://www.npr.org/podcasts/510310/npr-politics-podcast
GOP Baseball Practice Shooting
The NPR politics team covers the shooting, a in dept interview with Jeff Flakes and talks about the response on capital hill. Just a heads up, the interview about the shooting is a little tough to listen too.
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EPT
