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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
I am pretty sure leaking the existence of the obstruction investigation is not illegal.
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Just to put some facts out there, Muellers team is the best of the best with long histories of excellence. Before swallowing Newt/Breitbart spin, try reading about who these people actually are.
+ Show Spoiler +Tuesday morning on Good Morning America, Newt Gingrich blasted Mueller and his still-forming team. “These are bad people,” Newt Gingrich told George Stephanopoulos. “I’m very dubious of the team.”
But that criticism flies in the face of widespread, bipartisan acclaim for the team. In fact, just a day earlier, on the same program, former Whitewater prosecutor Ken Starr praised Mueller at length. “I don’t think there’s a legitimate concern about Bob Mueller,” Starr said, explaining that the former FBI director was “honest as the day is long.”
From the list of hires, it’s clear, in fact, that Mueller is recruiting perhaps the most high-powered and experienced team of investigators ever assembled by the Justice Department. His team began with three lawyers who also quickly left WilmerHale, the law firm where Mueller has also worked since he left the FBI in 2013—Zebley, James Quarles III, and Jeannie Rhee.
https://www.wired.com/story/robert-mueller-special-counsel-investigation-team/
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On June 15 2017 08:44 DeepElemBlues wrote:Classic fed nonsense too. They do it all the time. They can't prove the initial crime so they go after people for "obstructing" them in the course of their investigation into a crime that never happened. The FBI has been investigating MUH RUSSIA since last June. There has not been a single piece of evidence uncovered that any of the allegations, rumors, and innuendo are true. Multiple anonymously sourced news stories regarding BOMBSHELL REVELATIONS ABOUT TRUMP CONTACT WITH RUSSIA! have been shown to be utter nonsense. Multiple statements have been made and retracted by Democrat politicians regarding the existence of evidence.
I know there's lots of information but try and keep up.
There's no evidence that Trump himself did anything with Russia so far. Please keep up with the details of the accusations.
There's significant evidence that his campaign had direct connections to Russia or Russian agents via goons like Manafort and Flynn. We already know about their undisclosed financial records, Flynn/Manafort being investigated, Kushner having some shady ties with Russian and Syrian financial agencies, Sessions having some really bad memory with regards to meetings with a very specific Russian individual and so forth.
We don't send them to the slammer right now because you have to construct a sealed and shut case. These things take forever to get done.
This is a president who is more hated by elite Washington culture and the bureaucracy than any president since Lincoln. The first 6 months of the Trump administration has been one of the leakiest in history, if not the leakiest. I find it very hard to believe that the FBI or any other agency, bureau or department would be able to prevent the leak of any real evidence it possessed that the Trump campaign and the Russian government worked together in any way to beat Hillary Clinton. If such evidence existed, leaking it would pretty much instantly end his presidency. So why hasn't it been leaked? The bureaucrats who hate Trump are leaking everything but not the one thing that would 100% destroy Trump?
Because:
- Leaking too much shows your hand
- Trump himself actually hasn't done anything as far as we know
- They're investigating his campaign or more specifically his campaign staff
- If they're going to pin anyone, they need a sealed and shut case because Republicans aren't going to do shit (see: Ryan's "Its his first day" excuse).
Also, half the leaks aren't even from the DEEP STATE themselves. They're definitely from people aligned with Kushner or Bannon. You can tell by how the leaks are presented. Such is the nature of a opaque government where we're sometimes stuck practicing Kremlinology because they're so shady (see: AHCA). He'd get away with the FAKE NEWS angle too if he could maintain some discipline and not confirm the leaks via Twitter/stupid stump speeches/undisciplined interviews. All of his failings are completely his own doing.
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On June 15 2017 08:44 DeepElemBlues wrote:
Classic bit of Washington misdirection.
Mueller having 3 donors to the Democratic Party on his 5-person special counsel team was starting to get attention.
Bippidee boppidee boop Mueller is investigating Trump for obstruction of justice! Now Mueller can't be criticized without the accusation being leveled that it is just to save Trump from the obvious obstruction of justice charges that were going to be the result of the investigation.
Classic fed nonsense too. They do it all the time. They can't prove the initial crime so they go after people for "obstructing" them in the course of their investigation into a crime that never happened. The FBI has been investigating MUH RUSSIA since last June. There has not been a single piece of evidence uncovered that any of the allegations, rumors, and innuendo are true. Multiple anonymously sourced news stories regarding BOMBSHELL REVELATIONS ABOUT TRUMP CONTACT WITH RUSSIA! have been shown to be utter nonsense. Multiple statements have been made and retracted by Democrat politicians regarding the existence of evidence.
This is a president who is more hated by elite Washington culture and the bureaucracy than any president since Lincoln. The first 6 months of the Trump administration has been one of the leakiest in history, if not the leakiest. I find it very hard to believe that the FBI or any other agency, bureau or department would be able to prevent the leak of any real evidence it possessed that the Trump campaign and the Russian government worked together in any way to beat Hillary Clinton. If such evidence existed, leaking it would pretty much instantly end his presidency. So why hasn't it been leaked? The bureaucrats who hate Trump are leaking everything but not the one thing that would 100% destroy Trump?
Your final paragraph has been obvious for months to anyone outside the media bubble.
For specifically the Mueller bit, you're absolutely right on the smell test for narrative-switching. Secondly, let's not forget that Mueller and Comey are close personal friends as said in interviews and three newspapers. The man at the center, or a key witness of you will, is buddies with the investigator that must impartially judge his credibility as a witness. Only in Washington does friends investigating friends constitute an independent investigation. Mueller should publically step aside from Comey's testimony and obstruction angle to restore America's faith in the investigation.
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On June 15 2017 08:57 Wulfey_LA wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2017 08:52 Danglars wrote:On June 15 2017 07:47 Mohdoo wrote:On June 15 2017 07:41 Doodsmack wrote:The special counsel overseeing the investigation into Russia’s role in the 2016 election is interviewing senior intelligence officials as part of a widening probe that now includes an examination of whether President Trump attempted to obstruct justice, officials said.
The move by Special Counsel Robert S. Mueller III to investigate Trump’s own conduct marks a major turning point in the nearly year-old FBI investigation, which until recently focused on Russian meddling during the presidential campaign and on whether there was any coordination between the Trump campaign and the Kremlin. Investigators have also been looking for any evidence of possible financial crimes among Trump associates, officials said.
Trump had received private assurances from former FBI Director James B. Comey starting in January that he was not personally under investigation. Officials say that changed shortly after Comey’s firing. www.washingtonpost.com Somewhat big deal. For Trump to now officially be "under investigation", I imagine Trump will go into full on ego mode. Given how hard he pushed for Comey to say he isn't being investigated, Mueller actually directly investigating Trump is a big deal. For the record, you're looking at an anonymous leak to conclude "now officially be under investigation?" I might just have a different definition of 'officially' than you. Trump cheerleaders have been hiding behind the "but anonymous" stuff for the last 10000 pages. All of the anonymous stuff from WaPo and NYT has borne out. Usually, Trump angrily confirms the substance of the story in a late night tweet two days later. Or better yet, he tells Lester Holt. How long do you think you can hide in the "but anonymous" alt-reality before Trump confirms this one? Further, Trump's attorney did not deny today's story. That is confirmation in DC.
Okay I see you responded so I'll pose the question to you as well. Does today's anonymously sourced story mean Trump is now officially under investigation?
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On June 15 2017 08:54 biology]major wrote:
That's the thing, we have an idiot president who is going out of his way to out do his own idiocy at every turn and a bureaucracy that is invested in bringing him down. They are both happening simultaneously, and this time, I don't give a damn if the deepstate or the boogeyman takes trump down. We get pence, a much more polished politician, and we already have Gorsuch. Tax reform, healthcare are dependent on congress anyways so Trump is a net negative to the USA as of right now.
So you would count as allies a bureaucracy gunning to depose its boss because you favor the outcome of Trump leaving office? I'm a bit horrified at that application of the ends justify the means. We also get an emboldened 4th branch that provably can claim a scalp that elected officials cannot ... which is a far greater threat to the Republic and democracy than you realize.
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On June 15 2017 09:09 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2017 08:44 DeepElemBlues wrote:
Classic bit of Washington misdirection.
Mueller having 3 donors to the Democratic Party on his 5-person special counsel team was starting to get attention.
Bippidee boppidee boop Mueller is investigating Trump for obstruction of justice! Now Mueller can't be criticized without the accusation being leveled that it is just to save Trump from the obvious obstruction of justice charges that were going to be the result of the investigation.
Classic fed nonsense too. They do it all the time. They can't prove the initial crime so they go after people for "obstructing" them in the course of their investigation into a crime that never happened. The FBI has been investigating MUH RUSSIA since last June. There has not been a single piece of evidence uncovered that any of the allegations, rumors, and innuendo are true. Multiple anonymously sourced news stories regarding BOMBSHELL REVELATIONS ABOUT TRUMP CONTACT WITH RUSSIA! have been shown to be utter nonsense. Multiple statements have been made and retracted by Democrat politicians regarding the existence of evidence.
This is a president who is more hated by elite Washington culture and the bureaucracy than any president since Lincoln. The first 6 months of the Trump administration has been one of the leakiest in history, if not the leakiest. I find it very hard to believe that the FBI or any other agency, bureau or department would be able to prevent the leak of any real evidence it possessed that the Trump campaign and the Russian government worked together in any way to beat Hillary Clinton. If such evidence existed, leaking it would pretty much instantly end his presidency. So why hasn't it been leaked? The bureaucrats who hate Trump are leaking everything but not the one thing that would 100% destroy Trump? Your final paragraph has been obvious for months to anyone outside the media bubble. For specifically the Mueller bit, you're absolutely right on the smell test for narrative-switching. Secondly, let's not forget that Mueller and Comey are close personal friends as said in interviews and three newspapers. The man at the center, or a key witness of you will, is buddies with the investigator that must impartially judge his credibility as a witness. Only in Washington does friends investigating friends constitute an independent investigation. Mueller should publically step aside from Comey's testimony and obstruction angle to restore America's faith in the investigation.
Attorneys are friends in life and work on either sides of cases against each other. Mueller is Comey's peer and likely a friend. Mueller will not bring the charges himself, but present the evidence to congress and the justice department. They will decide what to do with it in the end. But it has become abundantly clear that you would have a problem with anyone who is appointed to investigate Trump. You would find bias someplace and claim it is political.
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On June 15 2017 09:09 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2017 08:44 DeepElemBlues wrote:
Classic bit of Washington misdirection.
Mueller having 3 donors to the Democratic Party on his 5-person special counsel team was starting to get attention.
Bippidee boppidee boop Mueller is investigating Trump for obstruction of justice! Now Mueller can't be criticized without the accusation being leveled that it is just to save Trump from the obvious obstruction of justice charges that were going to be the result of the investigation.
Classic fed nonsense too. They do it all the time. They can't prove the initial crime so they go after people for "obstructing" them in the course of their investigation into a crime that never happened. The FBI has been investigating MUH RUSSIA since last June. There has not been a single piece of evidence uncovered that any of the allegations, rumors, and innuendo are true. Multiple anonymously sourced news stories regarding BOMBSHELL REVELATIONS ABOUT TRUMP CONTACT WITH RUSSIA! have been shown to be utter nonsense. Multiple statements have been made and retracted by Democrat politicians regarding the existence of evidence.
This is a president who is more hated by elite Washington culture and the bureaucracy than any president since Lincoln. The first 6 months of the Trump administration has been one of the leakiest in history, if not the leakiest. I find it very hard to believe that the FBI or any other agency, bureau or department would be able to prevent the leak of any real evidence it possessed that the Trump campaign and the Russian government worked together in any way to beat Hillary Clinton. If such evidence existed, leaking it would pretty much instantly end his presidency. So why hasn't it been leaked? The bureaucrats who hate Trump are leaking everything but not the one thing that would 100% destroy Trump? Your final paragraph has been obvious for months to anyone outside the media bubble. For specifically the Mueller bit, you're absolutely right on the smell test for narrative-switching. Secondly, let's not forget that Mueller and Comey are close personal friends as said in interviews and three newspapers. The man at the center, or a key witness of you will, is buddies with the investigator that must impartially judge his credibility as a witness. Only in Washington does friends investigating friends constitute an independent investigation. Mueller should publically step aside from Comey's testimony and obstruction angle to restore America's faith in the investigation.
Aside from US right wing media (right wing media being Fox News and Info Wars grade garbage), does anyone believe that Mueller won't be impartial? Everyone who has met him, regardless of political affiliation, has described him as nothing but the model civil servant and law enforcement officer. For something as serious as Russian digital interference and espionage, you pick the best man possible and that's who Rosenstein appointed.
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On June 15 2017 09:17 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2017 09:09 Danglars wrote:On June 15 2017 08:44 DeepElemBlues wrote:
Classic bit of Washington misdirection.
Mueller having 3 donors to the Democratic Party on his 5-person special counsel team was starting to get attention.
Bippidee boppidee boop Mueller is investigating Trump for obstruction of justice! Now Mueller can't be criticized without the accusation being leveled that it is just to save Trump from the obvious obstruction of justice charges that were going to be the result of the investigation.
Classic fed nonsense too. They do it all the time. They can't prove the initial crime so they go after people for "obstructing" them in the course of their investigation into a crime that never happened. The FBI has been investigating MUH RUSSIA since last June. There has not been a single piece of evidence uncovered that any of the allegations, rumors, and innuendo are true. Multiple anonymously sourced news stories regarding BOMBSHELL REVELATIONS ABOUT TRUMP CONTACT WITH RUSSIA! have been shown to be utter nonsense. Multiple statements have been made and retracted by Democrat politicians regarding the existence of evidence.
This is a president who is more hated by elite Washington culture and the bureaucracy than any president since Lincoln. The first 6 months of the Trump administration has been one of the leakiest in history, if not the leakiest. I find it very hard to believe that the FBI or any other agency, bureau or department would be able to prevent the leak of any real evidence it possessed that the Trump campaign and the Russian government worked together in any way to beat Hillary Clinton. If such evidence existed, leaking it would pretty much instantly end his presidency. So why hasn't it been leaked? The bureaucrats who hate Trump are leaking everything but not the one thing that would 100% destroy Trump? Your final paragraph has been obvious for months to anyone outside the media bubble. For specifically the Mueller bit, you're absolutely right on the smell test for narrative-switching. Secondly, let's not forget that Mueller and Comey are close personal friends as said in interviews and three newspapers. The man at the center, or a key witness of you will, is buddies with the investigator that must impartially judge his credibility as a witness. Only in Washington does friends investigating friends constitute an independent investigation. Mueller should publically step aside from Comey's testimony and obstruction angle to restore America's faith in the investigation. Attorneys are friends in life and work on either sides of cases against each other. Mueller is Comey's peer and likely a friend. Mueller will not bring the charges himself, but present the evidence to congress and the justice department. They will decide what to do with it in the end. But it has become abundantly clear that you would have a problem with anyone who is appointed to investigate Trump. You would find bias someplace and claim it is political.
I think he'd be fine with Alex Jones. You know, those two are roughly the same caliber.
Aside from right wing media, does anyone believe that Mueller won't be impartial? Everyone who has met him, regardless of political affiliation, has described him as nothing but the model civil servant and law enforcement officer. For something as serious as Russian digital interference and espionage, you pick the best man possible and that's who Rosenstein appointed.
Doesn't matter. Some people take tribalism way too far, and this is a good example of it. It doesn't matter how decorated and integer the one side is: they're not good enough so you won't believe the outcome. You can't please a conspiracy theorist. Ever.
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On June 15 2017 09:19 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2017 09:17 Plansix wrote:On June 15 2017 09:09 Danglars wrote:On June 15 2017 08:44 DeepElemBlues wrote:
Classic bit of Washington misdirection.
Mueller having 3 donors to the Democratic Party on his 5-person special counsel team was starting to get attention.
Bippidee boppidee boop Mueller is investigating Trump for obstruction of justice! Now Mueller can't be criticized without the accusation being leveled that it is just to save Trump from the obvious obstruction of justice charges that were going to be the result of the investigation.
Classic fed nonsense too. They do it all the time. They can't prove the initial crime so they go after people for "obstructing" them in the course of their investigation into a crime that never happened. The FBI has been investigating MUH RUSSIA since last June. There has not been a single piece of evidence uncovered that any of the allegations, rumors, and innuendo are true. Multiple anonymously sourced news stories regarding BOMBSHELL REVELATIONS ABOUT TRUMP CONTACT WITH RUSSIA! have been shown to be utter nonsense. Multiple statements have been made and retracted by Democrat politicians regarding the existence of evidence.
This is a president who is more hated by elite Washington culture and the bureaucracy than any president since Lincoln. The first 6 months of the Trump administration has been one of the leakiest in history, if not the leakiest. I find it very hard to believe that the FBI or any other agency, bureau or department would be able to prevent the leak of any real evidence it possessed that the Trump campaign and the Russian government worked together in any way to beat Hillary Clinton. If such evidence existed, leaking it would pretty much instantly end his presidency. So why hasn't it been leaked? The bureaucrats who hate Trump are leaking everything but not the one thing that would 100% destroy Trump? Your final paragraph has been obvious for months to anyone outside the media bubble. For specifically the Mueller bit, you're absolutely right on the smell test for narrative-switching. Secondly, let's not forget that Mueller and Comey are close personal friends as said in interviews and three newspapers. The man at the center, or a key witness of you will, is buddies with the investigator that must impartially judge his credibility as a witness. Only in Washington does friends investigating friends constitute an independent investigation. Mueller should publically step aside from Comey's testimony and obstruction angle to restore America's faith in the investigation. Attorneys are friends in life and work on either sides of cases against each other. Mueller is Comey's peer and likely a friend. Mueller will not bring the charges himself, but present the evidence to congress and the justice department. They will decide what to do with it in the end. But it has become abundantly clear that you would have a problem with anyone who is appointed to investigate Trump. You would find bias someplace and claim it is political. I think he'd be fine with Alex Jones. You know, those two are roughly the same caliber.
Clearly it needs to be a political unaffiliated robot that can't vote and doesn't know to donate a political campaign. And can't hold opinions on anything.
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On June 15 2017 09:21 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2017 09:19 m4ini wrote:On June 15 2017 09:17 Plansix wrote:On June 15 2017 09:09 Danglars wrote:On June 15 2017 08:44 DeepElemBlues wrote:
Classic bit of Washington misdirection.
Mueller having 3 donors to the Democratic Party on his 5-person special counsel team was starting to get attention.
Bippidee boppidee boop Mueller is investigating Trump for obstruction of justice! Now Mueller can't be criticized without the accusation being leveled that it is just to save Trump from the obvious obstruction of justice charges that were going to be the result of the investigation.
Classic fed nonsense too. They do it all the time. They can't prove the initial crime so they go after people for "obstructing" them in the course of their investigation into a crime that never happened. The FBI has been investigating MUH RUSSIA since last June. There has not been a single piece of evidence uncovered that any of the allegations, rumors, and innuendo are true. Multiple anonymously sourced news stories regarding BOMBSHELL REVELATIONS ABOUT TRUMP CONTACT WITH RUSSIA! have been shown to be utter nonsense. Multiple statements have been made and retracted by Democrat politicians regarding the existence of evidence.
This is a president who is more hated by elite Washington culture and the bureaucracy than any president since Lincoln. The first 6 months of the Trump administration has been one of the leakiest in history, if not the leakiest. I find it very hard to believe that the FBI or any other agency, bureau or department would be able to prevent the leak of any real evidence it possessed that the Trump campaign and the Russian government worked together in any way to beat Hillary Clinton. If such evidence existed, leaking it would pretty much instantly end his presidency. So why hasn't it been leaked? The bureaucrats who hate Trump are leaking everything but not the one thing that would 100% destroy Trump? Your final paragraph has been obvious for months to anyone outside the media bubble. For specifically the Mueller bit, you're absolutely right on the smell test for narrative-switching. Secondly, let's not forget that Mueller and Comey are close personal friends as said in interviews and three newspapers. The man at the center, or a key witness of you will, is buddies with the investigator that must impartially judge his credibility as a witness. Only in Washington does friends investigating friends constitute an independent investigation. Mueller should publically step aside from Comey's testimony and obstruction angle to restore America's faith in the investigation. Attorneys are friends in life and work on either sides of cases against each other. Mueller is Comey's peer and likely a friend. Mueller will not bring the charges himself, but present the evidence to congress and the justice department. They will decide what to do with it in the end. But it has become abundantly clear that you would have a problem with anyone who is appointed to investigate Trump. You would find bias someplace and claim it is political. I think he'd be fine with Alex Jones. You know, those two are roughly the same caliber. Clearly it needs to be a political unaffiliated robot that can't vote and doesn't know to donate a political campaign.
That's the really funny bit. "Oh no, Mueller is a libtard, cuck (or whatever the current curses are)!!!!1" - but, well. You will not find anyone without some party affiliation in his past. Meaning you either have a democrat (oh no, can't do that!!1) or a republican ("well that seems fair). And we see almost on a weekly basis how well it works if a "party" is allowed to police itself.
Not that a conspiracy theorist would give two shits about the fact that they're literally asking for the impossible.
What i i find interesting though is the very fact that they assume that there's no one out there with integrity regardless of affiliation (as in, no democrat could possibly do a good job). I think it speaks buckets about the characters of those people.
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On June 15 2017 09:17 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2017 08:54 biology]major wrote:
That's the thing, we have an idiot president who is going out of his way to out do his own idiocy at every turn and a bureaucracy that is invested in bringing him down. They are both happening simultaneously, and this time, I don't give a damn if the deepstate or the boogeyman takes trump down. We get pence, a much more polished politician, and we already have Gorsuch. Tax reform, healthcare are dependent on congress anyways so Trump is a net negative to the USA as of right now. So you would count as allies a bureaucracy gunning to depose its boss because you favor the outcome of Trump leaving office? I'm a bit horrified at that application of the ends justify the means. We also get an emboldened 4th branch that provably can claim a scalp that elected officials cannot ... which is a far greater threat to the Republic and democracy than you realize.
Trump could have played his hand as 45 a million times better, won over both democrats and republicans, and made real change. He has all branches of government on his side. Instead he squanders an opportunity, disgraces the office with his constant lies and hypocrisy, and has not a single shred of decency. Why would I feel sorry for this buffoon? He was given a chance of a lifetime, and has so far been a crooked mess. Sad!
I wouldn't even mind if he was just bad at his job, it's his blatant immorality that irks me. Sure he might not have done anything illegal, but crooked trump and crooked hillary are both cut from same cloth. One has the temperament of a child and the other a grown woman.
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On June 15 2017 09:17 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2017 09:09 Danglars wrote:On June 15 2017 08:44 DeepElemBlues wrote:
Classic bit of Washington misdirection.
Mueller having 3 donors to the Democratic Party on his 5-person special counsel team was starting to get attention.
Bippidee boppidee boop Mueller is investigating Trump for obstruction of justice! Now Mueller can't be criticized without the accusation being leveled that it is just to save Trump from the obvious obstruction of justice charges that were going to be the result of the investigation.
Classic fed nonsense too. They do it all the time. They can't prove the initial crime so they go after people for "obstructing" them in the course of their investigation into a crime that never happened. The FBI has been investigating MUH RUSSIA since last June. There has not been a single piece of evidence uncovered that any of the allegations, rumors, and innuendo are true. Multiple anonymously sourced news stories regarding BOMBSHELL REVELATIONS ABOUT TRUMP CONTACT WITH RUSSIA! have been shown to be utter nonsense. Multiple statements have been made and retracted by Democrat politicians regarding the existence of evidence.
This is a president who is more hated by elite Washington culture and the bureaucracy than any president since Lincoln. The first 6 months of the Trump administration has been one of the leakiest in history, if not the leakiest. I find it very hard to believe that the FBI or any other agency, bureau or department would be able to prevent the leak of any real evidence it possessed that the Trump campaign and the Russian government worked together in any way to beat Hillary Clinton. If such evidence existed, leaking it would pretty much instantly end his presidency. So why hasn't it been leaked? The bureaucrats who hate Trump are leaking everything but not the one thing that would 100% destroy Trump? Your final paragraph has been obvious for months to anyone outside the media bubble. For specifically the Mueller bit, you're absolutely right on the smell test for narrative-switching. Secondly, let's not forget that Mueller and Comey are close personal friends as said in interviews and three newspapers. The man at the center, or a key witness of you will, is buddies with the investigator that must impartially judge his credibility as a witness. Only in Washington does friends investigating friends constitute an independent investigation. Mueller should publically step aside from Comey's testimony and obstruction angle to restore America's faith in the investigation. Attorneys are friends in life and work on either sides of cases against each other. Mueller is Comey's peer and likely a friend. Mueller will not bring the charges himself, but present the evidence to congress and the justice department. They will decide what to do with it in the end. But it has become abundantly clear that you would have a problem with anyone who is appointed to investigate Trump. You would find bias someplace and claim it is political.
No, these two are closer than is appropriate for an independent investigation. "“I remember feeling great support from my friend, the FBI Director Robert Mueller." Comey's interview 2009. "Mueller is a mentor of sorts to Comey" Mueller's deputy director. You're taking this partisan, so I'll just point out that you'd be arguing the reverse if this was an investigation of a Democratic presidents campaign and contacts. Have some standards.
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On June 15 2017 09:18 rageprotosscheesy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2017 09:09 Danglars wrote:On June 15 2017 08:44 DeepElemBlues wrote:
Classic bit of Washington misdirection.
Mueller having 3 donors to the Democratic Party on his 5-person special counsel team was starting to get attention.
Bippidee boppidee boop Mueller is investigating Trump for obstruction of justice! Now Mueller can't be criticized without the accusation being leveled that it is just to save Trump from the obvious obstruction of justice charges that were going to be the result of the investigation.
Classic fed nonsense too. They do it all the time. They can't prove the initial crime so they go after people for "obstructing" them in the course of their investigation into a crime that never happened. The FBI has been investigating MUH RUSSIA since last June. There has not been a single piece of evidence uncovered that any of the allegations, rumors, and innuendo are true. Multiple anonymously sourced news stories regarding BOMBSHELL REVELATIONS ABOUT TRUMP CONTACT WITH RUSSIA! have been shown to be utter nonsense. Multiple statements have been made and retracted by Democrat politicians regarding the existence of evidence.
This is a president who is more hated by elite Washington culture and the bureaucracy than any president since Lincoln. The first 6 months of the Trump administration has been one of the leakiest in history, if not the leakiest. I find it very hard to believe that the FBI or any other agency, bureau or department would be able to prevent the leak of any real evidence it possessed that the Trump campaign and the Russian government worked together in any way to beat Hillary Clinton. If such evidence existed, leaking it would pretty much instantly end his presidency. So why hasn't it been leaked? The bureaucrats who hate Trump are leaking everything but not the one thing that would 100% destroy Trump? Your final paragraph has been obvious for months to anyone outside the media bubble. For specifically the Mueller bit, you're absolutely right on the smell test for narrative-switching. Secondly, let's not forget that Mueller and Comey are close personal friends as said in interviews and three newspapers. The man at the center, or a key witness of you will, is buddies with the investigator that must impartially judge his credibility as a witness. Only in Washington does friends investigating friends constitute an independent investigation. Mueller should publically step aside from Comey's testimony and obstruction angle to restore America's faith in the investigation. Aside from US right wing media (right wing media being Fox News and Info Wars grade garbage), does anyone believe that Mueller won't be impartial? Everyone who has met him, regardless of political affiliation, has described him as nothing but the model civil servant and law enforcement officer. For something as serious as Russian digital interference and espionage, you pick the best man possible and that's who Rosenstein appointed.
For close personal friends, you're giving the appearance of corruption to even the sturdiest career government official. They need someone at arms length from Comey to properly assess his role in all this. It really should be clear to everybody upon examination that good character doesn't trump the circumstances of the investigation.
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On June 15 2017 09:27 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2017 09:17 Plansix wrote:On June 15 2017 09:09 Danglars wrote:On June 15 2017 08:44 DeepElemBlues wrote:
Classic bit of Washington misdirection.
Mueller having 3 donors to the Democratic Party on his 5-person special counsel team was starting to get attention.
Bippidee boppidee boop Mueller is investigating Trump for obstruction of justice! Now Mueller can't be criticized without the accusation being leveled that it is just to save Trump from the obvious obstruction of justice charges that were going to be the result of the investigation.
Classic fed nonsense too. They do it all the time. They can't prove the initial crime so they go after people for "obstructing" them in the course of their investigation into a crime that never happened. The FBI has been investigating MUH RUSSIA since last June. There has not been a single piece of evidence uncovered that any of the allegations, rumors, and innuendo are true. Multiple anonymously sourced news stories regarding BOMBSHELL REVELATIONS ABOUT TRUMP CONTACT WITH RUSSIA! have been shown to be utter nonsense. Multiple statements have been made and retracted by Democrat politicians regarding the existence of evidence.
This is a president who is more hated by elite Washington culture and the bureaucracy than any president since Lincoln. The first 6 months of the Trump administration has been one of the leakiest in history, if not the leakiest. I find it very hard to believe that the FBI or any other agency, bureau or department would be able to prevent the leak of any real evidence it possessed that the Trump campaign and the Russian government worked together in any way to beat Hillary Clinton. If such evidence existed, leaking it would pretty much instantly end his presidency. So why hasn't it been leaked? The bureaucrats who hate Trump are leaking everything but not the one thing that would 100% destroy Trump? Your final paragraph has been obvious for months to anyone outside the media bubble. For specifically the Mueller bit, you're absolutely right on the smell test for narrative-switching. Secondly, let's not forget that Mueller and Comey are close personal friends as said in interviews and three newspapers. The man at the center, or a key witness of you will, is buddies with the investigator that must impartially judge his credibility as a witness. Only in Washington does friends investigating friends constitute an independent investigation. Mueller should publically step aside from Comey's testimony and obstruction angle to restore America's faith in the investigation. Attorneys are friends in life and work on either sides of cases against each other. Mueller is Comey's peer and likely a friend. Mueller will not bring the charges himself, but present the evidence to congress and the justice department. They will decide what to do with it in the end. But it has become abundantly clear that you would have a problem with anyone who is appointed to investigate Trump. You would find bias someplace and claim it is political. No, these two are closer than is appropriate for an independent investigation. "“I remember feeling great support from my friend, the FBI Director Robert Mueller." Comey's interview 2009. "Mueller is a mentor of sorts to Comey" Mueller's deputy director. You're taking this partisan, so I'll just point out that you'd be arguing the reverse if this was an investigation of a Democratic presidents campaign and contacts. Have some standards.
No I would not. Do not imply I am burdened with your cynicism and complet lack of faith in the integrity of others. Project that garbage on someone else.
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On June 15 2017 09:30 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2017 09:18 rageprotosscheesy wrote:On June 15 2017 09:09 Danglars wrote:On June 15 2017 08:44 DeepElemBlues wrote:
Classic bit of Washington misdirection.
Mueller having 3 donors to the Democratic Party on his 5-person special counsel team was starting to get attention.
Bippidee boppidee boop Mueller is investigating Trump for obstruction of justice! Now Mueller can't be criticized without the accusation being leveled that it is just to save Trump from the obvious obstruction of justice charges that were going to be the result of the investigation.
Classic fed nonsense too. They do it all the time. They can't prove the initial crime so they go after people for "obstructing" them in the course of their investigation into a crime that never happened. The FBI has been investigating MUH RUSSIA since last June. There has not been a single piece of evidence uncovered that any of the allegations, rumors, and innuendo are true. Multiple anonymously sourced news stories regarding BOMBSHELL REVELATIONS ABOUT TRUMP CONTACT WITH RUSSIA! have been shown to be utter nonsense. Multiple statements have been made and retracted by Democrat politicians regarding the existence of evidence.
This is a president who is more hated by elite Washington culture and the bureaucracy than any president since Lincoln. The first 6 months of the Trump administration has been one of the leakiest in history, if not the leakiest. I find it very hard to believe that the FBI or any other agency, bureau or department would be able to prevent the leak of any real evidence it possessed that the Trump campaign and the Russian government worked together in any way to beat Hillary Clinton. If such evidence existed, leaking it would pretty much instantly end his presidency. So why hasn't it been leaked? The bureaucrats who hate Trump are leaking everything but not the one thing that would 100% destroy Trump? Your final paragraph has been obvious for months to anyone outside the media bubble. For specifically the Mueller bit, you're absolutely right on the smell test for narrative-switching. Secondly, let's not forget that Mueller and Comey are close personal friends as said in interviews and three newspapers. The man at the center, or a key witness of you will, is buddies with the investigator that must impartially judge his credibility as a witness. Only in Washington does friends investigating friends constitute an independent investigation. Mueller should publically step aside from Comey's testimony and obstruction angle to restore America's faith in the investigation. Aside from US right wing media (right wing media being Fox News and Info Wars grade garbage), does anyone believe that Mueller won't be impartial? Everyone who has met him, regardless of political affiliation, has described him as nothing but the model civil servant and law enforcement officer. For something as serious as Russian digital interference and espionage, you pick the best man possible and that's who Rosenstein appointed. For close personal friends, you're giving the appearance of corruption to even the sturdiest career government official. They need someone at arms length from Comey to properly assess his role in all this. It really should be clear to everybody upon examination that good character doesn't trump the circumstances of the investigation.
Mueller seems to have been picked due to being widely respected by both parties (well, as of a month ago). I'm not sure who they could have picked to add as much legitimacy besides him in the eyes of both parties. He was appointed by GW Bush, and his term extended by Obama.
His friendship with Comey is problematic, but he wasn't originally appointed to investigate obstruction. It was supposed to be purely about the Russian interference.
Who do you think should replace him?
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On June 15 2017 09:30 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2017 09:18 rageprotosscheesy wrote:On June 15 2017 09:09 Danglars wrote:On June 15 2017 08:44 DeepElemBlues wrote:
Classic bit of Washington misdirection.
Mueller having 3 donors to the Democratic Party on his 5-person special counsel team was starting to get attention.
Bippidee boppidee boop Mueller is investigating Trump for obstruction of justice! Now Mueller can't be criticized without the accusation being leveled that it is just to save Trump from the obvious obstruction of justice charges that were going to be the result of the investigation.
Classic fed nonsense too. They do it all the time. They can't prove the initial crime so they go after people for "obstructing" them in the course of their investigation into a crime that never happened. The FBI has been investigating MUH RUSSIA since last June. There has not been a single piece of evidence uncovered that any of the allegations, rumors, and innuendo are true. Multiple anonymously sourced news stories regarding BOMBSHELL REVELATIONS ABOUT TRUMP CONTACT WITH RUSSIA! have been shown to be utter nonsense. Multiple statements have been made and retracted by Democrat politicians regarding the existence of evidence.
This is a president who is more hated by elite Washington culture and the bureaucracy than any president since Lincoln. The first 6 months of the Trump administration has been one of the leakiest in history, if not the leakiest. I find it very hard to believe that the FBI or any other agency, bureau or department would be able to prevent the leak of any real evidence it possessed that the Trump campaign and the Russian government worked together in any way to beat Hillary Clinton. If such evidence existed, leaking it would pretty much instantly end his presidency. So why hasn't it been leaked? The bureaucrats who hate Trump are leaking everything but not the one thing that would 100% destroy Trump? Your final paragraph has been obvious for months to anyone outside the media bubble. For specifically the Mueller bit, you're absolutely right on the smell test for narrative-switching. Secondly, let's not forget that Mueller and Comey are close personal friends as said in interviews and three newspapers. The man at the center, or a key witness of you will, is buddies with the investigator that must impartially judge his credibility as a witness. Only in Washington does friends investigating friends constitute an independent investigation. Mueller should publically step aside from Comey's testimony and obstruction angle to restore America's faith in the investigation. Aside from US right wing media (right wing media being Fox News and Info Wars grade garbage), does anyone believe that Mueller won't be impartial? Everyone who has met him, regardless of political affiliation, has described him as nothing but the model civil servant and law enforcement officer. For something as serious as Russian digital interference and espionage, you pick the best man possible and that's who Rosenstein appointed. For close personal friends, you're giving the appearance of corruption to even the sturdiest career government official. They need someone at arms length from Comey to properly assess his role in all this. It really should be clear to everybody upon examination that good character doesn't trump the circumstances of the investigation.
Let's be honest, anyone put in the position will be biased in some capacity. The difference is that Mueller has a long history of having a stellar reputation. The optics are only negative if you actually believe he's a quack, which is really only isolated to the Fox News die hards and people who believe the DEEP STATE is trying to stop Trump from draining the swamp, whatever the swamp is these days.
Fun fact: my former boss, whose a registered Republican, actually worked with Mueller for a little while. He doesn't believe the reports from the NYT and WaPo but when I asked him if he'll believe Mueller's findings, he said he would 100% believe him.
He was selected by the DoJ because he's probably the single most trustworthy individual around who already knows his way around the block. Anyone with the ability to actually investigate foreign criminal espionage in the US election is going to be connected to a degree of people in Washington.
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On June 15 2017 09:11 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2017 08:57 Wulfey_LA wrote:On June 15 2017 08:52 Danglars wrote:On June 15 2017 07:47 Mohdoo wrote:On June 15 2017 07:41 Doodsmack wrote:The special counsel overseeing the investigation into Russia’s role in the 2016 election is interviewing senior intelligence officials as part of a widening probe that now includes an examination of whether President Trump attempted to obstruct justice, officials said.
The move by Special Counsel Robert S. Mueller III to investigate Trump’s own conduct marks a major turning point in the nearly year-old FBI investigation, which until recently focused on Russian meddling during the presidential campaign and on whether there was any coordination between the Trump campaign and the Kremlin. Investigators have also been looking for any evidence of possible financial crimes among Trump associates, officials said.
Trump had received private assurances from former FBI Director James B. Comey starting in January that he was not personally under investigation. Officials say that changed shortly after Comey’s firing. www.washingtonpost.com Somewhat big deal. For Trump to now officially be "under investigation", I imagine Trump will go into full on ego mode. Given how hard he pushed for Comey to say he isn't being investigated, Mueller actually directly investigating Trump is a big deal. For the record, you're looking at an anonymous leak to conclude "now officially be under investigation?" I might just have a different definition of 'officially' than you. Trump cheerleaders have been hiding behind the "but anonymous" stuff for the last 10000 pages. All of the anonymous stuff from WaPo and NYT has borne out. Usually, Trump angrily confirms the substance of the story in a late night tweet two days later. Or better yet, he tells Lester Holt. How long do you think you can hide in the "but anonymous" alt-reality before Trump confirms this one? Further, Trump's attorney did not deny today's story. That is confirmation in DC. https://twitter.com/Acosta/status/875126828444381184 Okay I see you responded so I'll pose the question to you as well. Does today's anonymously sourced story mean Trump is now officially under investigation?
Literally no. Seriously yes. "Officially" is an exaggeration EDIT: by some poster here to make a point better. These kinds of exaggerations are everywhere in politics and if you insist on spinning for Trump then you need to be able absorb some exaggerations by others. But is Trump actually under investigation? Hell yes he is. There is zero chance this story gets retracted and Trump will tweet something stupid soon. See also, Kasowitz not denying it.
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yeah, if it was fake news it seems like the best course of action would have been to deny an investigation is happening. on the other hand, shooting the messenger/leaker so to say vs addressing the message/issue seems to be admin's strategy de jure.
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EPT
