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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
The special counsel overseeing the investigation into Russia’s role in the 2016 election is interviewing senior intelligence officials as part of a widening probe that now includes an examination of whether President Trump attempted to obstruct justice, officials said.
The move by Special Counsel Robert S. Mueller III to investigate Trump’s own conduct marks a major turning point in the nearly year-old FBI investigation, which until recently focused on Russian meddling during the presidential campaign and on whether there was any coordination between the Trump campaign and the Kremlin. Investigators have also been looking for any evidence of possible financial crimes among Trump associates, officials said.
Trump had received private assurances from former FBI Director James B. Comey starting in January that he was not personally under investigation. Officials say that changed shortly after Comey’s firing.
www.washingtonpost.com
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On June 15 2017 07:41 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +The special counsel overseeing the investigation into Russia’s role in the 2016 election is interviewing senior intelligence officials as part of a widening probe that now includes an examination of whether President Trump attempted to obstruct justice, officials said.
The move by Special Counsel Robert S. Mueller III to investigate Trump’s own conduct marks a major turning point in the nearly year-old FBI investigation, which until recently focused on Russian meddling during the presidential campaign and on whether there was any coordination between the Trump campaign and the Kremlin. Investigators have also been looking for any evidence of possible financial crimes among Trump associates, officials said.
Trump had received private assurances from former FBI Director James B. Comey starting in January that he was not personally under investigation. Officials say that changed shortly after Comey’s firing. www.washingtonpost.com
Somewhat big deal. For Trump to now officially be "under investigation", I imagine Trump will go into full on ego mode. Given how hard he pushed for Comey to say he isn't being investigated, Mueller actually directly investigating Trump is a big deal.
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On June 15 2017 07:47 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2017 07:41 Doodsmack wrote:The special counsel overseeing the investigation into Russia’s role in the 2016 election is interviewing senior intelligence officials as part of a widening probe that now includes an examination of whether President Trump attempted to obstruct justice, officials said.
The move by Special Counsel Robert S. Mueller III to investigate Trump’s own conduct marks a major turning point in the nearly year-old FBI investigation, which until recently focused on Russian meddling during the presidential campaign and on whether there was any coordination between the Trump campaign and the Kremlin. Investigators have also been looking for any evidence of possible financial crimes among Trump associates, officials said.
Trump had received private assurances from former FBI Director James B. Comey starting in January that he was not personally under investigation. Officials say that changed shortly after Comey’s firing. www.washingtonpost.com Somewhat big deal. For Trump to now officially be "under investigation", I imagine Trump will go into full on ego mode. Given how hard he pushed for Comey to say he isn't being investigated, Mueller actually directly investigating Trump is a big deal.
Officials say that changed shortly after Comey’s firing.
This is a collosally big deal. This shows that the special counsel is going right at all the places where Trump is vulnerable.
Trump is in terrible trouble here because his own words show he fired Comey over the Russia investigation. Trump was never going to get in trouble on the collusion front, but man the obstruction and financial fronts are real threats. Mueller is even going after the Trump lackey's for financial crimes. That would be Kushner and Flynn.
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On June 15 2017 07:23 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2017 07:19 Neneu wrote:On June 15 2017 07:06 KwarK wrote:On June 15 2017 07:01 Neneu wrote:On June 15 2017 06:29 Plansix wrote:
My first question would be: What other nations solved this problem and how did they do it? I hear the EU has old people and they don't kill them to make the economy roaring. It is a huge economic problem which aren't solved by most nations. According to the latest report from WEF (World Economic Forum), nations/saving funds will by 2050 be missing 400 000 billion dollars globally, for them to meet their obligations .That is 5 times the current global economy. This is a HUGE problem. If it isn't fixed it will affect most of the people on this forum directly, and that is without taking account for the extreme global financial crash it will trigger. Edit: gramer Your country is currently sitting on $873,000,000,000 in its pension fund with a population of 5,000,000. And unlike the US which invests in low yield treasury bonds, Norway's pension fund is invested in equities. I think you've got it sorted. Yes, but still with today's rate it will be empty by 2043 Compare our world to 26 years ago. A shit load can change between now and then.
Yeah, but you don't build economic policy on the belief that things will change. You build an economic policy so things either will change or stay the same. Right now we are doing the latter, which is a big problem. This is an exponential problem, not a linear one. Time is actually money and it effects you and almost everyone in this forum.
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Wondering if WaPo should have waited a little to break the story. As of now it's still drowned out by the shootings.
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On June 15 2017 08:08 Doodsmack wrote:
Wondering if WaPo should have waited a little to break the story. As of now it's still drowned out by the shootings.
But it's not a one day, one week story.
By "considering" the action of firing Mueller, and running a smear campaign against him to boot, Trump has forced Mueller to make this public. Oops.
Because now Trump can't fire Mueller without it being a direct obstruction into an investigation on the POTUS personally, opposed to an investigation into Trump's campaign -- a distinction that Republicans were extremely adamant was important.
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On June 15 2017 08:08 Doodsmack wrote:
Wondering if WaPo should have waited a little to break the story. As of now it's still drowned out by the shootings.
I am largely of the opinion that news organizations should release all stories when they are finished. Sitting on stories for editorial or timing reasons always stinks of weird biases that are hard to read and end up dominating partisan discussions. If WaPo sits on the story that hurts Trump for some reason, then the conservative entertainment news world will crow and crow for weeks about how the WaPo is biased against Trump for sitting on a story for a bit for whatever reason. Better to just send out the stories as they finish without thinking about it so the partisan news can't hypocritically harp on bias more than it already does.
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On June 15 2017 07:10 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Thank God.
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Don't they have diplomatic immunity? In any case, wouldn't they be long gone and in Turkey?
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On June 15 2017 08:28 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Don't they have diplomatic immunity? In any case, wouldn't they be long gone and in Turkey?
I assume they have been in Turkey since forever (which is why the government waited before going after them) and Turkey will never extradite them so this way Trump gets to look strong without actually doing anything to Erdogan.
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On June 15 2017 08:28 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Don't they have diplomatic immunity? In any case, wouldn't they be long gone and in Turkey?
Diplomatic immunity can be waived.
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United States42638 Posts
Extradition to the US is kinda tricky because the US refuses to agree to bilateral extradition agreements and most other countries don't like to agree to letting their citizens be tried by America without a reciprocal agreement. Blair agreed to a reciprocal agreement with Bush a while back but it was never ratified into US law and the first time it was actually used (against the Natwest Three who were guilty as sin) it caused a shitstorm that focused entirely on the shitty agreement and distracted from the issue.
American exceptionalism comes at a price.
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Classic bit of Washington misdirection.
Mueller having 3 donors to the Democratic Party on his 5-person special counsel team was starting to get attention.
Bippidee boppidee boop Mueller is investigating Trump for obstruction of justice! Now Mueller can't be criticized without the accusation being leveled that it is just to save Trump from the obvious obstruction of justice charges that were going to be the result of the investigation.
Classic fed nonsense too. They do it all the time. They can't prove the initial crime so they go after people for "obstructing" them in the course of their investigation into a crime that never happened. The FBI has been investigating MUH RUSSIA since last June. There has not been a single piece of evidence uncovered that any of the allegations, rumors, and innuendo are true. Multiple anonymously sourced news stories regarding BOMBSHELL REVELATIONS ABOUT TRUMP CONTACT WITH RUSSIA! have been shown to be utter nonsense. Multiple statements have been made and retracted by Democrat politicians regarding the existence of evidence.
This is a president who is more hated by elite Washington culture and the bureaucracy than any president since Lincoln. The first 6 months of the Trump administration has been one of the leakiest in history, if not the leakiest. I find it very hard to believe that the FBI or any other agency, bureau or department would be able to prevent the leak of any real evidence it possessed that the Trump campaign and the Russian government worked together in any way to beat Hillary Clinton. If such evidence existed, leaking it would pretty much instantly end his presidency. So why hasn't it been leaked? The bureaucrats who hate Trump are leaking everything but not the one thing that would 100% destroy Trump?
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Mueller was a private citizen and is allowed to donate to democrats, just like Trump and his kids. The obstruction of justice charge would not exist if Trump had not fired Comey. This is the classic problem in Washington. It isn't the crime, it is the cover up. Bill Clinton had this exact problem too.
Also, a lot of the leaks are coming from the White House itself. And some reporters are just good at getting information. The NYT and the Posts reporting have been proven almost completely correct. This whole "deep state" and Washington Bureaucrats against Trump narrative has no basis in reality. Trump is hated by most of Washington because he is a shitty leader and boss. He attacked the CIA and FBI. He administration actively trying to dismantle the EPA, which does important things in the US like measure pollution in rivers. The Justice department has got to be less than thrilled. Trump rolled into the White House and took dump on all the agencies he is supposed to over see. But it isn't his job to dissolve them, that is congresses job.
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On June 15 2017 07:47 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2017 07:41 Doodsmack wrote:The special counsel overseeing the investigation into Russia’s role in the 2016 election is interviewing senior intelligence officials as part of a widening probe that now includes an examination of whether President Trump attempted to obstruct justice, officials said.
The move by Special Counsel Robert S. Mueller III to investigate Trump’s own conduct marks a major turning point in the nearly year-old FBI investigation, which until recently focused on Russian meddling during the presidential campaign and on whether there was any coordination between the Trump campaign and the Kremlin. Investigators have also been looking for any evidence of possible financial crimes among Trump associates, officials said.
Trump had received private assurances from former FBI Director James B. Comey starting in January that he was not personally under investigation. Officials say that changed shortly after Comey’s firing. www.washingtonpost.com Somewhat big deal. For Trump to now officially be "under investigation", I imagine Trump will go into full on ego mode. Given how hard he pushed for Comey to say he isn't being investigated, Mueller actually directly investigating Trump is a big deal.
For the record, you're looking at an anonymous leak to conclude "now officially be under investigation?" I might just have a different definition of 'officially' than you.
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That's the thing, we have an idiot president who is going out of his way to out do his own idiocy at every turn and a bureaucracy that is invested in bringing him down. They are both happening simultaneously, and this time, I don't give a damn if the deepstate or the boogeyman takes trump down. We get pence, a much more polished politician, and we already have Gorsuch. Tax reform, healthcare are dependent on congress anyways so Trump is a net negative to the USA as of right now.
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United States42638 Posts
DEB, assuming for a second that there was nothing to it and Trump knew for a fact that there was nothing to it and knew that none of his associates or campaign staff had any Russian ties, would you be okay with him using his position to shut down the investigation? Because you seem to be saying that obstruction isn't a real charge because there was no collusion and I'm not sure it works that way.
Whether or not collusion happened has no bearing. No more than whether an innocent man who perjures himself to create an alibi has committed perjury.
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On June 15 2017 08:52 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2017 07:47 Mohdoo wrote:On June 15 2017 07:41 Doodsmack wrote:The special counsel overseeing the investigation into Russia’s role in the 2016 election is interviewing senior intelligence officials as part of a widening probe that now includes an examination of whether President Trump attempted to obstruct justice, officials said.
The move by Special Counsel Robert S. Mueller III to investigate Trump’s own conduct marks a major turning point in the nearly year-old FBI investigation, which until recently focused on Russian meddling during the presidential campaign and on whether there was any coordination between the Trump campaign and the Kremlin. Investigators have also been looking for any evidence of possible financial crimes among Trump associates, officials said.
Trump had received private assurances from former FBI Director James B. Comey starting in January that he was not personally under investigation. Officials say that changed shortly after Comey’s firing. www.washingtonpost.com Somewhat big deal. For Trump to now officially be "under investigation", I imagine Trump will go into full on ego mode. Given how hard he pushed for Comey to say he isn't being investigated, Mueller actually directly investigating Trump is a big deal. For the record, you're looking at an anonymous leak to conclude "now officially be under investigation?" I might just have a different definition of 'officially' than you.
Trump cheerleaders have been hiding behind the "but anonymous" stuff for the last 10000 pages. All of the anonymous stuff from WaPo and NYT has borne out. Usually, Trump angrily confirms the substance of the story in a late night tweet two days later. Or better yet, he tells Lester Holt. How long do you think you can hide in the "but anonymous" alt-reality before Trump confirms this one?
Further, Trump's attorney did not deny today's story. That is confirmation in DC.
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On June 15 2017 08:55 KwarK wrote:
DEB, assuming for a second that there was nothing to it and Trump knew for a fact that there was nothing to it and knew that none of his associates or campaign staff had any Russian ties, would you be okay with him using his position to shut down the investigation? Because you seem to be saying that obstruction isn't a real charge because there was no collusion and I'm not sure it works that way.
Whether or not collusion happened has no bearing. No more than whether an innocent man who perjures himself to create an alibi has committed perjury.
I think his point is about the innate nature of a special prosecutor, a shark looking for blood going in every which direction. Mueller is gonna have to exercise discipline to stay restricted to the scope of his investigation, even if Trump is commiting crimes in other areas.
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EPT
