EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 7689
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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warding
Portugal2394 Posts
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On May 31 2017 07:48 Danglars wrote: Or match StealthBlue on frequency to remind people how often he posts tweets. It probably wouldn't take too long in fact; conservative ones stick out extra bad here. (Kathy Griffin is beheading Trump head) Kathy Griffin is being pretty roundly condemned from all sides for it so far. Chelsea Clinton/Jake Tapper both thought it was disgusting and inappropriate, at the least. | ||
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
On May 31 2017 08:35 warding wrote: Prostitution and drugs are bad examples since, unlike hate speech, they do not affect the negative freedoms of anyone other than those willfully engaging in it. Hate speech does, which is why it can legitimately be argued that you're not making society less free by restricting it. All of those things, if pervasive enough have the power to infringe on the freedom of others, they all can erode the social fabric. In fact the whole distinction between 'word-crime' and physical crime is absolutely obsolete. It only makes sense if your framework is a kind of 18th century world where everybody has ten miles of farmland and is left to their own devices. In today's situation with the widespread use of media and density of population every public speech act is real and physical in its effects. The idea that things don't infringe on the freedom of other's is, most of the time, just an implicit way to say that you like X very much and don't want it to be taken away. Gun lovers will say guns have no effect on everybody else, gamers will say violent media has no effect on anybody else, drug users will say that it's only their own problem and so on. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
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KwarK
United States42774 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
I feel this reporter sums up the last page nicely. | ||
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Sadist
United States7241 Posts
On May 31 2017 08:46 Danglars wrote: https://twitter.com/maxcroser/status/868855072947658752 Globalization | ||
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
On May 31 2017 08:35 warding wrote: Prostitution and drugs are bad examples since, unlike hate speech, they do not affect the negative freedoms of anyone other than those willfully engaging in it. Hate speech does, which is why it can legitimately be argued that you're not making society less free by restricting it. what about my freedom to not have to listen to drunk idiots? or drug-addled crack heads? or hate speakers? this is a stupid discussion. it should be obvious to everyone here that donald trump should not be locked up for anything hes said that might be called "hate speech". now it's possible he might have said some other things that would get him locked up (obstruction of justice, conspiracy, treason . . . ) | ||
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KwarK
United States42774 Posts
On May 31 2017 09:14 IgnE wrote: what about my freedom to not have to listen to drunk idiots? or drug-addled crack heads? or hate speakers? this is a stupid discussion. it should be obvious to everyone here that donald trump should not be locked up for hes said that might be called "hate speech". now it's possible he might have said some other things that would get him locked up (obstruction of justice, conspiracy, treason . . . ) He walked the line very closely with his "Second Amendment folks should stop Hillary Clinton from taking office" stunt. That kind of incitement to political violence isn't always legal. | ||
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
On May 31 2017 06:22 zlefin wrote: no, it does not. that is simply a false assertion that does not correspond at all to the actual discussion chain. don't bother tlaking if you're not going ot pay attention to the discussion chain at all. and I did recognize his view on ids and it's good he has that, but it does not mitigate the statement he mdae that was rightfully called out as trolling. oh ok so you dont think ids matter hardly at all because there is no problem. so why even spend the (public) money as danglars suggested to get ids and why bother requiring them when its not an important issue anyway? | ||
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KwarK
United States42774 Posts
On May 31 2017 09:22 IgnE wrote: oh ok so you dont think ids matter hardly at all because there is no problem. so why even spend the (public) money as danglars suggested to get ids and why bother requiring them when its not an important issue anyway? Americans really need a public ID system for dozens of reasons. SSNs aren't universal, they certainly aren't secret, the first five numbers can be worked out from public information for most people, they're routinely stolen and so forth. A system that incorporated modern infosec principles, was a part of a single database and was easily accessible to underdocumented people would be awesome. The fact that there isn't a single database of Americans is a problem for things beyond voting. | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On May 31 2017 09:22 IgnE wrote: oh ok so you dont think ids matter hardly at all because there is no problem. so why even spend the (public) money as danglars suggested to get ids and why bother requiring them when its not an important issue anyway? while that is an argument I have made and am somewhat inclined towards and did make in that discussion chain; it's not really relevant to the most pertinent points re: trolling. that there is no actual problem has been demonstrated as a question of fact. i'd be willing to spend the money anyways; but it might well be a poor use of public funds to fix something that isn't broken. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
... has its upsides for the kind of grinding poverty that used to be the norm. | ||
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Sadist
United States7241 Posts
On May 31 2017 09:46 Danglars wrote: ... has its upsides for the kind of grinding poverty that used to be the norm. Absolutely. I dont think anyone denies its been a great tool to lift som impoverished nations up. The problem is the American Middle Class and some of the middle class in other western countries feels as if their wages have gone down to prop these other countries up. Its tilted the scales even further towards capital over labor. | ||
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ShoCkeyy
7815 Posts
On May 31 2017 01:30 Plansix wrote: But if you forget your ID, you will be provided with a provisional ballot. https://www.rockthevote.com/get-informed/elections/voter-id-requirements/state/?referrer=https://www.google.com/ I just found this and it is a pretty no-nonsense guide to the requirements of each state. Your vote isn't counted until you bring an ID. Or show proof you say who you are. | ||
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Karis Vas Ryaar
United States4396 Posts
http://www.snopes.com/darrell-issa-avoid-protesters/ Protest organizer Ellen Montanari said neither the accounts of Issa or Levin were accurate. Issa did speak to at least two protest attendees, including herself and one other person, from what she saw. But he didn’t spend the morning jovially chatting with them, as he characterized in his tweet. Issa spokesman Calvin Moore told us via e-mail: "The Congressman came down today to talk with the protestors gathered and answer some of the questions they might have. (They’ve been pretty adamant about town halls, so he thought they’d relish at the opportunity to answer some questions then and there). He spent some time talking to a few of those gathered regardless then headed upstairs to take a pic of everyone." Montanari told us in a phone interview that things unfolded with a bit more hostility than Moore let on. Since late January 2017, protesters have been gathering outside Issa’s Vista office every Tuesday. Normally he comes out and she offers him a microphone, which he uses for impromptu question-and-answer sessions. On 30 May, however,Montanari told us that Issa was less talkative and more accusatory: "I saw Rep. Issa across the street before our rally started. He’s come down to speak with us a number of times. I went over to shake his hand, and he said, ‘step away, you’re a protester.’ I said ‘no, I’m a constituent.’ He went on to just blast me. Our whole point is that we want to hear form him, and he has in the past been rude and condescending, but nothing like this. He was being incredibly disrespectful to me, and the rally participants. I listened to him for a little while and he turned on his heel and walked away. I walked back and I decided he was not interested in talking with us, he was more interested in talking at us. It’s our rally, the people paid for the microphone, and so I decided that if he was going to be a bully he was not going to get the microphone." | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On May 31 2017 09:02 Plansix wrote: https://twitter.com/mattdpearce/status/869678100136706049 I feel this reporter sums up the last page nicely. Im interested to see if Al Franken cancels his event with Kathy Griffin. I have a very low opinion of the guy, but I suspect it's in his self interest to avoid association with he lady that holds up a severed Trump head for comedy. | ||
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ShoCkeyy
7815 Posts
The issue I see with using id's for voting is the location they tell you to vote. Sometimes it's pretty far, sometimes it's close; sometimes the people running the voting booths are complete assholes and literally give you the wrong person (has happened to me at least three times)... it's a solution, but it's also a problem. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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