US Politics Mega-thread - Page 7676

On May 30 2017 06:29 GreenHorizons wrote:
To the people who have seen the movie Get Out:
+ Show Spoiler +

On May 30 2017 06:26 Schmobutzen wrote:
I don't say wait!

I say: ponder your actions and try to change what you can actually change!

On May 30 2017 06:20 Nebuchad wrote:


And this is one of the main reasons why you're okay with being patient. You don't think the problem is that bad.

Either you or GH is wrong about this. At some point, you're going to have to figure out which one is.

On May 30 2017 06:35 Wulfey_LA wrote:


There we go. That is what I was trying to say. Hoping for a mass increase in the civic virtue of individuals [curing individual racism] is ridiculous. Even with mass re-education camps we would be unlikely to stamp it out. But pushing hard on public policy racism can have some spillover effects and can produce real results.

On May 30 2017 06:38 Simberto wrote:


A lot of this probably has to do with perception based on your own circumstances. Both could be correct in their own situation.

For example, i am a student in a university with geeky hobbies. That leaves me in a specific milieu of people i interact with. This milieu is not racist. However, i can totally believe that if you go into a random small pub in a tiny eastern german village, things might look entirely different. I also agree that i might not notice all racist behaviour, because i am very obviously a white german in Germany.

This is part of what makes this so hard. A lot of the people who believe that there is barely any racism are probably correct in their specific surroundings, and extrapolate from that onto the rest of the country. So if someone claims that there is actually a lot of racism, their personal experiences make them believe that that person is wrong and claiming that there is a lot of racism in their personal surroundings and thus exaggerating, or something along those lines.

Meanwhile, the other person could be completely correct in their assessment that their own surroundings are racist, and believe that the person who thinks that there is not a lot of racism must thus be a racist that is fine with the amount of racism that that second person experiences in a different milieu, as opposed to the much smaller amount of racism that the first person experiences in his own milieu.

This is a situation where clearly communicating what you believe to be racist, or not racist, is very important on both sides. I think you will often find that you actually agree, you just weren't communicating correctly.

On May 30 2017 06:43 Wulfey_LA wrote:
When the country passed a healthcare bill that expanded medicaid (hello poors) dramatically, there was a political revolution in this country that tossed the Democrats from across the nation. If you live in reality, then you understand that greater suburbia and rural areas of the USA are not on board with more helping of poors (who tend to be darker).

On May 30 2017 06:47 Nebuchad wrote:


And now the majority of the country is in favor of medicare for all according to the polls, republican representatives are shutting down their town halls because they don't want to address their republican base who agrees with it and who really dislike Obamacare being only repealed and not replaced, and Bernie Sanders is using the surf of Medicare for All to cruise over a wave of popularity all the way to number 1 in the US.

So of course, time for small steps and patience.

This is probably the single worst example that you could have chosen to illustrate the value of patience and gradualism

On May 30 2017 05:53 GreenHorizons wrote:


Buried in all of this was my point that it distracts us from seeing that none of the working class has someone to vote for

You get a choice between two different salesmen for the same general oppression. And so long as each group agrees to perpetuate the oppression of the one beneath they get to continue to enjoy their "superiority" over the other. Every once in the while you cross the voids in between various groups, but the working class has a lot more that should unite us against the elites than divides us, but that requires letting go of the white supremacist culture that allows people in Owsley County, Kentucky thinking Republicans aren't talking about them when they talk about the "takers".

On May 30 2017 06:59 Wulfey_LA wrote:
Have we considered that WV voters may value Trump's public commitments to roll back pluralism may count for more than the dollars and cents realities of a welfare state like WV? WV voters really believed that whole racism+coal sales pitch by Trump. Maybe they judged sticking it to the libs and busting the browns more important than their looming healthcare collapse.

On May 30 2017 06:53 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:
Krugman has posted and written about how WV keeps voting against its own interests. Although I suppose it's possible they thought Trump actually was going to fix everything. Krugman does come of as a bit snobbish at times but he makes good points.

https://twitter.com/paulkrugman/status/867141372855296001

https://twitter.com/paulkrugman/status/866735908329889793

https://twitter.com/paulkrugman/status/866679460187127808

https://twitter.com/paulkrugman/status/868095208822583300

https://twitter.com/paulkrugman/status/868481508360818688

https://twitter.com/paulkrugman/status/868483182450151424

On May 30 2017 06:52 Wulfey_LA wrote:


(1) We have a much more important opinion poll on Nov 8, 2016. No amount of polls count against votes.
(2) "Single payer" on its own polls great, but show me the polls that actually cite a plan that includes the taxes to pay for it.

EDIT:

(3) Trump+Republicans ran on repealing ACA for years. They keep winning. Why do you think the populace just clamors for single payer when they keep voting for less GOV in health insurance?

On May 30 2017 07:03 GreenHorizons wrote:



This is just it, like I pointed to Owsley County, Kentucky and why race, economics, and politics are currently inextricable from each other, no matter how much we'd like to make it about anything else.

EDIT: Also Krugman is a tool.

On May 30 2017 07:07 Nebuchad wrote:


I'm really curious how Paula Jean is going to do against Manchin, it's one of the more interesting data points for the future.

On May 30 2017 05:17 GreenHorizons wrote:


I'm not excluding white people from being decent human beings, but I can assure you if the overwhelming majority of* white Americans* stopped supporting white supremacy, systemic and institutional racism and the politicians who perpetuate it, it would stop.

And not supporting them is something decent human beings do, but decent human beings also do bad things like vote to support those things. I get how people can interpret things the way they do but it sails right past people how just the "I think black people should take a lesson from the christian right and vote more" concept is offensive, particularly coming from someone who knows better like P6.

On May 30 2017 07:25 Plansix wrote:

Personally I spend a lot of time trying to explain racism to white people I know, which I don't have to do. I do it because I'm committed to dealing with racism in my country and it is the area where I can do the most good. So maybe take it down a notch. But, you are right, my comment was a bit out of line, but the turn out rates for the entire left have been terrible for nearly 20 years. We can blame the DNC all day, but that still doesn't win elections. My overall opinion on voting is that left should spend less time waiting for the ideal candidate that perfectly represents all their views to show up and just fucking vote for people on the ticket and own their ass. This includes every demographic on the left. Wishing White Americans would stop voting for a party caters to racist isn't going to make it stop.

On May 30 2017 07:04 Nebuchad wrote:


Trump ran on repeal and replace, not repeal and repeal. Now he's not doing the replacing well and as a result Trumpcare is massively unpopular. I understand that you can single out a Trump vote and say "woop conservatism" but when you have an explanation that is coherent with the polls and the actions today (again, town halls), namely that they thought Trump would make it better than it is and are now disappointed that he doesn't, it's fairly nonsensical for you to ignore that possibility and just go "I guess they just don't want a good insurance system".

On May 30 2017 07:47 GreenHorizons wrote:


I tried to give you some credit (though I know some of my revolutionary friends would say "stop praising that white boy for doing what any decent person should do" ) But I appreciate the effort, and I appreciate you recognizing why that turn of phrase was problematic even if you didn't mean it in the way it came off (like you were dismissing the role white Christians play/ed in preventing black people from voting for one).

Without specificity to race, everyone, particularly people at the lower end of the economic ladder, need to increase their civic engagement and there's wisdom in not looking to oppressive power structures to lead them through it.