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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On February 25 2017 00:55 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Am I mistaken or did he preface this whole media thing with "they always leave out I say fake news, I'm talking about fake news." thing.
He could be talking about legitimately fake news ("Ivanka eats child alive at elite underground buffet!"). We all know he's talking about CNN and crap, but this type of response just feeds into the beast.
At this point the media reminds me of the people laughing at how stupid the person who said "How could there be 20,000 people watching if there are only 7 million in the world?!?" in twitch chat is. Not in the "damn troll" kinda way, but in the "Dude you're so dumb, there's *googles world population* 7.4 billion people on the planet dumbass!" kinda way.
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Trump:
Cheers and laughs against Nafta. Forcing pipeline to use only US Steel. *wince* not conservatism, just going with the flow.
Railing against the consultant class, not too bad.
'It's time for all Americans to get off of welfare and get back to work." Hehe
Standard stuff on military. At least expected.
Terrorism and immigration is almost the same speech as press conference.
Doesn't care about bad press if it means protecting America's first. I don't really know if this is some sort of core value but he has already demonstrated the willingness.
Stabbing back at nominee approval times.
Then a bunch of clap lines. America first. And just like before, he has overlapping areas with conservatism but is not a conservative. Good to invite him because we've already made headway on the court and likely will get some more on America first foreign policy and strength of the military.
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Beijing has hit back at Donald Trump after the US president risked reigniting a simmering feud with China by accusing it of being the “grand champion” of currency manipulation.
After months of turbulence and uncertainty between the world’s two biggest economies, relations appeared to settle two weeks ago after the US president and his Chinese counterpart, Xi Jinping, held their first phone conversation since the billionaire’s inauguration.
However, in an interview with Reuters on Thursday that also saw Trump reiterate his desire for American nuclear supremacy, the US president, who has attacked China over trade, Taiwan, North Korea and the South China Sea, threatened to undermine the tentative rapprochement with a fresh verbal assault.
“I think they’re grand champions at manipulation of currency. So I haven’t held back. We’ll see what happens,” Trump said.
The president’s comments were reported just hours after the incoming treasury secretary, Steven Mnuchin, made apparently contradictory remarks signalling that the White House had no immediate plans to label China a currency manipulator – something Trump had pledged to do on his first day in office.
Beijing rejected Trump’s claims on Friday, with a foreign ministry spokesperson, Geng Shuang, claiming his country had “no intention of deliberately devaluing its currency to gain a trade advantage”.
Asked by the Guardian about Trump’s claims of currency manipulation, Geng said: “If you must pin the label of ‘grand champion’ … on China, then we are a grand champion of economic development. We’ve made great achievements since the start of economic reform and opening-up, making us the undisputed grand champion.”
Chinese scholars expressed frustration at the president’s allegation. “He has such a big mouth. What can we do about it? Let him talk,” said Zhu Feng, a professor of international relations at Nanjing University.
Economists in and outside China reject Trump’s claim – repeatedly aired during his campaign – that China is guilty of purposefully forcing down the value of its currency, the yuan, in order to boost its own exporters and hamstring US manufacturers.
“The logic of Trump’s claim is that he believes other countries keep their currencies artificially cheap to increase their exports to the US. [But] as a matter of fact, the Chinese yuan has seen a 13% devaluation since last year,” Zhu said, pointing out that Trump had previously also accused South Korea and Japan of manipulating their currencies.
Christopher Balding, a Peking University finance professor, said: “China is clearly manipulating its currency, there’s no two ways about it. But at this point they are essentially propping up the value of their currency rather than manipulating it lower to gain an unfair trade advantage.
“To some degree Trump is correct, that of any major economy they probably are the grand champions of currency manipulation,” he added.
“But we need to very clearly distinguish between manipulating a currency to gain an unfair trade advantage – which they were pretty clearly doing maybe a decade to five years ago but they are clearly not doing that these days – and propping up the currency.”
Over the past year, China’s central bank has spent billions of dollars in foreign exchange reserves shoring up the yuan to counter capital outflows, Reuters reported.
Trump told Reuters that he wants the US to expand its nuclear arsenal, in his first comments on the issue since taking office.
Source
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I fully expect someone to report Trump saying, "Sorry - we're going to put our minors back to work." (The line was actually about mine workers [miners] getting back to work.)
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On February 24 2017 14:39 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2017 13:58 Nevuk wrote:
I'm more of a single issue person. If Perez endorsed a public healthcare option, I would be for him. I've honestly not heard a full throated endorsement of it by Ellison either, which is somewhat worrying to me. I don't even have an objection to corporations having influence on the party. I have an objection to corporations in industries which shouldn't be entirely private in the first place having influence. If something is essential for a person to be an effective, working member of society then it should be accessible to all members of society. There are more things that fit this category than just healthcare, but healthcare is one of the most essential things and that our society treats it as a luxury is absurd. If the business model of health insurance companies could not accommodate the existence of a public option, then they should not be a business. so as a single issue public option voter can you back up why you prefer the public option in particular as a good way to improve healthcare in the united states compared to a various other systems in places like switzerland, germany, the netherlands, the UK, australia, singapore, taiwan, or even ones proposed by various healthcare groups? and how would you implement a public option given the existing healthcare infrastructure that we have?
I'm not sure if the US can achieve healthcare equal to the European countries listed currently. Any improvement would be good though. You asked so I'll give my thoughts on it, with the caveat that I'm no expert.
My opinion is that we already have an infrastructure set up that can be expanded. It is medicaid though, not medicare. Medicaid already covers 70 million people. Gradually expanding it higher every year would give insurance companies time to adjust and let the infrastructure handle it. It is also an inferior option to many private health care plans, which would still leave them with a reason to exist. Perhaps offer a deduction for those who opt out. How to pay for it is a different question that I'm not nearly knowledgeable enough to handle. The current GOP plan to tax private health care benefits seems ... Unpopular.
Thoughts on strategy : start out with a medicare for all proposal paid for in a way that is completely unpalatable to the insurance industry but relatively popular. It doesn't even have to be sane, Trump has shown us that. The point is to get them to accept the existence of a public healthcare option as a lesser evil.
If the democratic part is truly reluctant, start a single issue third party. It is nearing that point. This has always been the purpose of third parties in the US - when the two major parties are ignoring a popular public position. Title the party medicare for all, go for seats in the house, be very clear that they don't give a shit about guns, abortion, or lgbtq rights- Medicare for all is something favored by a fair few republicans. Just don't run for president, that's dumb in fptp systems.
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He just loves that song. Used it all the time during the election aswell.
Heck he come on during the Republican national convention to it I believe.
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United States44195 Posts
On February 25 2017 01:20 josephmcjoe wrote:
I fully expect someone to report Trump saying, "Sorry - we're going to put our minors back to work." (The line was actually about mine workers [miners] getting back to work.)
Both equally likely to happen, the important thing is that it's a negative for society either way.
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Estonia4505 Posts
Police charged a 51-year-old white man with first-degree murder after he allegedly shot and killed an Indian man and wounded another Indian man and a white bystander at a bar in Olathe, Kansas, Wednesday night. Federal prosecutors are investigating the incident as a possible hate crime.
Witnesses at the Austins Bar and Grill told local media they thought the attack was racially motivated. The suspect, Adam Purinton, reportedly used “racial slurs” before opening fire on two patrons of Indian nationality as they watched a basketball game on television.
Advertisement
One of the victims, Srinivas Kuchibhotla, 32, worked as an engineer for a local aviation technology company. He died at the hospital, police said. His friend, Alok Madasani, 32, also reportedly an engineer, was hospitalized and has since been released. The third victim, Ian Grillot, 24, was wounded as he tried to intervene on behalf of Kuchibhotla and Madasani, police said. He is also reported to be hospitalized in stable condition.
A witness told the Kansas City Star that the suspect shouted, “Get out of my country” before shooting Kuchibhotla and Madasani, and then fled from the bar on foot. Later that night, the newspaper reported, the suspect told a bartender at an Applebee’s in Clinton, Missouri — about 75 miles from the crime scene — that he had just murdered two Middle Eastern men and needed somewhere to hide out.
Indian news media covered the attack extensively, and Indian lawmakers and state officials took to Twitter to convey their shock and sadness. “The vicious racism unleashed in some quarters in the U.S. claims more innocent victims, who happen to be Indian,” wrote Shashi Tharoor, an Indian lawmaker, on Twitter. India’s foreign minister Sushma Swaraj wrote on Twitter that she was “shocked” by the incident. “My heartfelt condolences to bereaved family.”
Madasani Jaganmohan Reddy, father of the wounded victim, told the Hindustan Times that he wants his son to quit his job and return home. “The situation seems to be pretty bad after Trump took over as the U.S. President,” Reddy said. “I appeal to all the parents in India not to send their children to the U.S. in the present circumstances.”
A local man named Brian Ford set up a GoFundMe fund to support the victims. Ford says he lives about 15 minutes away from the bar where the attack took place and has a close friend who worked at Garmin, the company that employed the two Indian victims. As of Friday morning, Ford had raised nearly $45,000 of his $50,000 target, which he said would go to cover medical and funeral expenses for the victims.
Source
I am afraid this will not be the last such attack.
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United States44195 Posts
On February 25 2017 00:12 RealityIsKing wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2017 23:35 LegalLord wrote:
It's interesting to see the parallels between the DNC leaks and the current government leaks. The first almost certainly spawned the second, and the two sides are reversed in the "contents of the leak vs. leaking is bad" game. It should perhaps be a warning as to what relying on leaks will lead to. Never bought the whole Russian leaked the Hillary Email thing to undermine America thing. If Russian are able to get into DNC server, they can release GOP stuff too. If anything, it would have been more damaging. That would create way more chaos within the American society, would render Americans even more divided.
You understand that Trump went on tv and said that he wanted the Russians to leak stuff that undermined Hillary during the campaign, right?
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On February 25 2017 01:26 mustaju wrote:Show nested quote +Police charged a 51-year-old white man with first-degree murder after he allegedly shot and killed an Indian man and wounded another Indian man and a white bystander at a bar in Olathe, Kansas, Wednesday night. Federal prosecutors are investigating the incident as a possible hate crime.
Witnesses at the Austins Bar and Grill told local media they thought the attack was racially motivated. The suspect, Adam Purinton, reportedly used “racial slurs” before opening fire on two patrons of Indian nationality as they watched a basketball game on television.
Advertisement
One of the victims, Srinivas Kuchibhotla, 32, worked as an engineer for a local aviation technology company. He died at the hospital, police said. His friend, Alok Madasani, 32, also reportedly an engineer, was hospitalized and has since been released. The third victim, Ian Grillot, 24, was wounded as he tried to intervene on behalf of Kuchibhotla and Madasani, police said. He is also reported to be hospitalized in stable condition.
A witness told the Kansas City Star that the suspect shouted, “Get out of my country” before shooting Kuchibhotla and Madasani, and then fled from the bar on foot. Later that night, the newspaper reported, the suspect told a bartender at an Applebee’s in Clinton, Missouri — about 75 miles from the crime scene — that he had just murdered two Middle Eastern men and needed somewhere to hide out.
Indian news media covered the attack extensively, and Indian lawmakers and state officials took to Twitter to convey their shock and sadness. “The vicious racism unleashed in some quarters in the U.S. claims more innocent victims, who happen to be Indian,” wrote Shashi Tharoor, an Indian lawmaker, on Twitter. India’s foreign minister Sushma Swaraj wrote on Twitter that she was “shocked” by the incident. “My heartfelt condolences to bereaved family.”
Madasani Jaganmohan Reddy, father of the wounded victim, told the Hindustan Times that he wants his son to quit his job and return home. “The situation seems to be pretty bad after Trump took over as the U.S. President,” Reddy said. “I appeal to all the parents in India not to send their children to the U.S. in the present circumstances.”
A local man named Brian Ford set up a GoFundMe fund to support the victims. Ford says he lives about 15 minutes away from the bar where the attack took place and has a close friend who worked at Garmin, the company that employed the two Indian victims. As of Friday morning, Ford had raised nearly $45,000 of his $50,000 target, which he said would go to cover medical and funeral expenses for the victims.
SourceI am afraid this will not be the last such attack.
Poor guy, must just have mental health problems. Thoughts and prayers.
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United States44195 Posts
On February 25 2017 01:28 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2017 01:26 mustaju wrote:Police charged a 51-year-old white man with first-degree murder after he allegedly shot and killed an Indian man and wounded another Indian man and a white bystander at a bar in Olathe, Kansas, Wednesday night. Federal prosecutors are investigating the incident as a possible hate crime.
Witnesses at the Austins Bar and Grill told local media they thought the attack was racially motivated. The suspect, Adam Purinton, reportedly used “racial slurs” before opening fire on two patrons of Indian nationality as they watched a basketball game on television.
Advertisement
One of the victims, Srinivas Kuchibhotla, 32, worked as an engineer for a local aviation technology company. He died at the hospital, police said. His friend, Alok Madasani, 32, also reportedly an engineer, was hospitalized and has since been released. The third victim, Ian Grillot, 24, was wounded as he tried to intervene on behalf of Kuchibhotla and Madasani, police said. He is also reported to be hospitalized in stable condition.
A witness told the Kansas City Star that the suspect shouted, “Get out of my country” before shooting Kuchibhotla and Madasani, and then fled from the bar on foot. Later that night, the newspaper reported, the suspect told a bartender at an Applebee’s in Clinton, Missouri — about 75 miles from the crime scene — that he had just murdered two Middle Eastern men and needed somewhere to hide out.
Indian news media covered the attack extensively, and Indian lawmakers and state officials took to Twitter to convey their shock and sadness. “The vicious racism unleashed in some quarters in the U.S. claims more innocent victims, who happen to be Indian,” wrote Shashi Tharoor, an Indian lawmaker, on Twitter. India’s foreign minister Sushma Swaraj wrote on Twitter that she was “shocked” by the incident. “My heartfelt condolences to bereaved family.”
Madasani Jaganmohan Reddy, father of the wounded victim, told the Hindustan Times that he wants his son to quit his job and return home. “The situation seems to be pretty bad after Trump took over as the U.S. President,” Reddy said. “I appeal to all the parents in India not to send their children to the U.S. in the present circumstances.”
A local man named Brian Ford set up a GoFundMe fund to support the victims. Ford says he lives about 15 minutes away from the bar where the attack took place and has a close friend who worked at Garmin, the company that employed the two Indian victims. As of Friday morning, Ford had raised nearly $45,000 of his $50,000 target, which he said would go to cover medical and funeral expenses for the victims.
SourceI am afraid this will not be the last such attack. Poor guy, must just have mental health problems. Thoughts and prayers.
Well it's like the saying goes. One man's mentally ill lone wolf is another man's freedom fighter.
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Norway28869 Posts
I think the first time he used it was after the mike pence VP choice was publicized? At least that's the first time I noticed it. I think people discussing/ridiculing that song choice is exactly the type of 'negative publicity' that he favors because 1) it's irrelevant and 2) easy to lash out against. It's a great song, one that doesn't need any reasoning to be chosen, but because 'you can't always get what you want' can be interpreted in whatever way you want to interpret it, there's bound to be some media outlet interpreting it in a ridiculous manner that which Trump can use as an example of the ridiculously biased media, even if 90-99% of outlets ignored it completely.
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On February 25 2017 01:28 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2017 01:26 mustaju wrote:Police charged a 51-year-old white man with first-degree murder after he allegedly shot and killed an Indian man and wounded another Indian man and a white bystander at a bar in Olathe, Kansas, Wednesday night. Federal prosecutors are investigating the incident as a possible hate crime.
Witnesses at the Austins Bar and Grill told local media they thought the attack was racially motivated. The suspect, Adam Purinton, reportedly used “racial slurs” before opening fire on two patrons of Indian nationality as they watched a basketball game on television.
Advertisement
One of the victims, Srinivas Kuchibhotla, 32, worked as an engineer for a local aviation technology company. He died at the hospital, police said. His friend, Alok Madasani, 32, also reportedly an engineer, was hospitalized and has since been released. The third victim, Ian Grillot, 24, was wounded as he tried to intervene on behalf of Kuchibhotla and Madasani, police said. He is also reported to be hospitalized in stable condition.
A witness told the Kansas City Star that the suspect shouted, “Get out of my country” before shooting Kuchibhotla and Madasani, and then fled from the bar on foot. Later that night, the newspaper reported, the suspect told a bartender at an Applebee’s in Clinton, Missouri — about 75 miles from the crime scene — that he had just murdered two Middle Eastern men and needed somewhere to hide out.
Indian news media covered the attack extensively, and Indian lawmakers and state officials took to Twitter to convey their shock and sadness. “The vicious racism unleashed in some quarters in the U.S. claims more innocent victims, who happen to be Indian,” wrote Shashi Tharoor, an Indian lawmaker, on Twitter. India’s foreign minister Sushma Swaraj wrote on Twitter that she was “shocked” by the incident. “My heartfelt condolences to bereaved family.”
Madasani Jaganmohan Reddy, father of the wounded victim, told the Hindustan Times that he wants his son to quit his job and return home. “The situation seems to be pretty bad after Trump took over as the U.S. President,” Reddy said. “I appeal to all the parents in India not to send their children to the U.S. in the present circumstances.”
A local man named Brian Ford set up a GoFundMe fund to support the victims. Ford says he lives about 15 minutes away from the bar where the attack took place and has a close friend who worked at Garmin, the company that employed the two Indian victims. As of Friday morning, Ford had raised nearly $45,000 of his $50,000 target, which he said would go to cover medical and funeral expenses for the victims.
SourceI am afraid this will not be the last such attack. Poor guy, must just have mental health problems. Thoughts and prayers.
Another lone wolf gunman. Thoughts and prayers.
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President Donald Trump bragged at his recent Florida rally that after a negotiating session of merely an hour he managed to shave a billion dollars off the price of a new Air Force One. The only problem is that the Air Force reportedly has no idea what he’s talking about.
“They were close to signing a $4.2 billion deal to have a new Air Force One,” Trump said Saturday. “Can you believe this? I said, ‘No way.’ I said, ‘I refuse to fly in a $4.2 billion airplane. I refuse.’”
“We got that price down by over $1 billion, and I probably haven’t spoken, to be honest with you, for more than an hour on the project,” he continued. “I got the generals in, who are fantastic. I got Boeing in. But I told Boeing, it’s not good enough. We’re not going to do it. The price is still too high.”
But Air Force spokesman Col. Pat Ryder told Bloomberg, “To my knowledge I have not been told that we have that information.” He suggested a call to the White House, which had not responded to requests as of Friday.
Trump threatened in December to cancel any contract with aircraft maker Boeing after again mentioning a $4 billion Air force One. “We want Boeing to make a lot of money, but not that much money,” he said.
The Air Force plans to replace both of its two Air Force One jets — each about 26 years old — by 2024. Boeing would replace the current 747s with modified 747-8s, which are longer, have a wider wingspan, and are capable of flying 1,000 miles further without refueling, according to Stars and Stripes. Air Force One is essentially a flying Oval Office from which the president could run the country.
But Ryder said the price had not been determined and the new jets have yet to be designed. So it’s unclear what Trump might have been negotiating.
Boeing is now operating under an initial $172 million contract to determine basic capabilities and compatibilities of the new aircraft, according to a Boeing statement. Contracts will be awarded as early as June for design. The two unmodified aircraft that will be transformed into Air Force One will be purchased from Boeing in a separate contract, the Air Force Times has reported.
“That will give us a better idea of how much we’ll be looking at for the cost,” Ryder told Stars and Stripes.
The White House Military Office, not the Air Force, determines the Air Force One’s security and communications requirements and accommodation requirements, said Ryder. So Trump could radically reduce his own demands if he’s looking for a cheaper way to fly.
He has talked about having only one, not two, Air Force Ones.
“I don’t want to speak for the White House. But ... having two aircraft gives you the flexibility you need to ensure you are able to meet the mission requirements,” Ryder told Stars and Stripes. “Having another aircraft gives you the ability to put one into phased maintenance, for example, or if there are issues with that aircraft you have other options.”
Trump’s Defense Secretary James Mattis in January ordered a review of how to reduce the costs of Air Force One. The budget for the Air Force One program is $1.9 billion through 2019.
Boeing spokesman Todd Blecher told Bloomberg in an email, “We are committed to working [with] the Trump administration and Defense Department on innovative approaches to affordably provide the capabilities America’s military needs.”
Source
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On February 25 2017 00:21 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Trump starting his speech at CPAC.
EDIT #1:
EDIT #2:
Okay...
Someone pranked the attendees. Told people they were pro Trump flags. Apparently they were labeled Trump on one side.
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On February 25 2017 01:34 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Show nested quote +President Donald Trump bragged at his recent Florida rally that after a negotiating session of merely an hour he managed to shave a billion dollars off the price of a new Air Force One. The only problem is that the Air Force reportedly has no idea what he’s talking about.
“They were close to signing a $4.2 billion deal to have a new Air Force One,” Trump said Saturday. “Can you believe this? I said, ‘No way.’ I said, ‘I refuse to fly in a $4.2 billion airplane. I refuse.’”
“We got that price down by over $1 billion, and I probably haven’t spoken, to be honest with you, for more than an hour on the project,” he continued. “I got the generals in, who are fantastic. I got Boeing in. But I told Boeing, it’s not good enough. We’re not going to do it. The price is still too high.”
But Air Force spokesman Col. Pat Ryder told Bloomberg, “To my knowledge I have not been told that we have that information.” He suggested a call to the White House, which had not responded to requests as of Friday.
Trump threatened in December to cancel any contract with aircraft maker Boeing after again mentioning a $4 billion Air force One. “We want Boeing to make a lot of money, but not that much money,” he said.
The Air Force plans to replace both of its two Air Force One jets — each about 26 years old — by 2024. Boeing would replace the current 747s with modified 747-8s, which are longer, have a wider wingspan, and are capable of flying 1,000 miles further without refueling, according to Stars and Stripes. Air Force One is essentially a flying Oval Office from which the president could run the country.
But Ryder said the price had not been determined and the new jets have yet to be designed. So it’s unclear what Trump might have been negotiating.
Boeing is now operating under an initial $172 million contract to determine basic capabilities and compatibilities of the new aircraft, according to a Boeing statement. Contracts will be awarded as early as June for design. The two unmodified aircraft that will be transformed into Air Force One will be purchased from Boeing in a separate contract, the Air Force Times has reported.
“That will give us a better idea of how much we’ll be looking at for the cost,” Ryder told Stars and Stripes.
The White House Military Office, not the Air Force, determines the Air Force One’s security and communications requirements and accommodation requirements, said Ryder. So Trump could radically reduce his own demands if he’s looking for a cheaper way to fly.
He has talked about having only one, not two, Air Force Ones.
“I don’t want to speak for the White House. But ... having two aircraft gives you the flexibility you need to ensure you are able to meet the mission requirements,” Ryder told Stars and Stripes. “Having another aircraft gives you the ability to put one into phased maintenance, for example, or if there are issues with that aircraft you have other options.”
Trump’s Defense Secretary James Mattis in January ordered a review of how to reduce the costs of Air Force One. The budget for the Air Force One program is $1.9 billion through 2019.
Boeing spokesman Todd Blecher told Bloomberg in an email, “We are committed to working [with] the Trump administration and Defense Department on innovative approaches to affordably provide the capabilities America’s military needs.” Source
I love that he treats government contract to build Air Force One like he is going to the car dealership.
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On February 25 2017 01:34 Nevuk wrote:Someone pranked the attendees. Told people they were pro Trump flags. Apparently they were labeled Trump on one side.
Best kind of prank too. Maybe we can all have a laugh without some dude pulling out a "deeply disturbing" hot take (and this is including if protestors snuck in and pulled them out.)
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With the extra billion he can pay for the security of Trump Tower and Mar-a-Lago over the next four years. Fiscal responsibility!
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On February 25 2017 01:46 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2017 01:34 Nevuk wrote:Someone pranked the attendees. Told people they were pro Trump flags. Apparently they were labeled Trump on one side. Best kind of prank too. Maybe we can all have a laugh without some dude pulling out a "deeply disturbing" hot take (and this is including if protestors snuck in and pulled them out.)
The flags don't seem to have trump anywhere on there, unless the russian flag is trumps new symbol?
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EPT
