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On November 08 2016 03:29 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2016 03:28 Acrofales wrote:On November 08 2016 02:34 KwarK wrote:On November 08 2016 02:31 Stratos_speAr wrote:On November 08 2016 02:27 KwarK wrote:
America never really had the middle class that it believes it has, it's just propaganda. As a reminder to people, if you sell your labour to someone else, you're probably working class. The vast majority of people are working class. Middle class is denoted by very high incomes and success in a middle class career, such as a lawyer, doctor, politician or business owner. If you're not making 6+ figures you're not middle class. If you're making 7 figures, you're probably still middle class. Upper class is something you're born into, a multigenerational elite like the Kennedy family.
America decided to tell itself that because it was a land of opportunity in opposition to the old world it would not have an upper class or a feudal aristocracy. Each man would make himself. And then, when communism came along and organized labour started fighting with the upper class that wasn't meant to exist, they also decided that America would not have a working class. The working class got called the middle class and everyone collectively agreed to overlook the fact that the middle class seemed to be doing an awful lot of working.
It's lunacy. American politicians keep having to use middle class as a code word to reach out to the working population and talk to them about how they're being overtaxed and that they're unable to afford a middle class lifestyle on their "middle class" income. America boiled down "lower/middle/upper class" to strictly denote income generations ago. While the historical source of these concepts is quite different, the distinction you're making has no practical application in American politics when using these terms. It's like pointing out that we use the spectrum of "liberal/conservative" in a counter-intuitive manner when you take in the global and historical context of these words. Sure, you're technically right, but it has no meaning when talking about American politics. Even if you say it's an income division the working class will still all call themselves the middle class. Nobody with a job hears "make things better for the middle classes" and doesn't think it's them being talked about there. There was an active effort to destroy class consciousness which is a real pity given how hard organized labor fought in the United States for rights we take for granted today. A big part of America's political problem probably comes down to the deliberate dismantling of organized labor as a movement in the wake of the Soviet Union. I'm fairly certain middle class is defined by the "middle". Therefore, if the median income is what you earn as a labourer, then (some of) the working class is, in fact, middle class. Working class is not exclusive of middle class, that would be lower class. The middle class is defined by 'bourgeois' values, people who have a tertiary education, like upper class cultural activities, have a home and two cars, and so on. Middle class is not a technical term referring to the median. Many working class people occupy that range.
Okay, I checked and there are different ways of defining middle class. I just assumed the income-based one, but we could very well just be arguing past each other.
http://money.cnn.com/infographic/economy/what-is-middle-class-anyway/
I assumed the first one. You're talking about the second one (or maybe the third one. Not entirely sure).
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United States43125 Posts
On November 08 2016 03:26 GoTuNk! wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2016 22:46 Plansix wrote:On November 07 2016 22:27 GoTuNk! wrote:On November 07 2016 22:03 Doodsmack wrote:
Virginia's highest court ruled in July that Gov McAuliffe can't pardon felons en masse (to free them up to vote), but must consider them on a case by case basis. He then managed to pardon 60,000 felons by using a mechanical pen that signed letters very quickly. Guess they are Democratic voters lol. Wonder if this could be challenged after the election... Well they are hell bent on creating and open border so more democrats can come in, this would be the next step. The more, the merrier (as long as they vote democrat). They don’t even need open borders. The natural progression of demographics will make whites the minority by 2040. In 2020 there will be more non-white children than white children in the US. All citizens able to vote. NPR reported last week the Texas has the shifted to a non-white majority population, but the voter participation is leans to white voters. Unless the Republicans ditch their current tactics, they will fade into a nothing party by the sheer weight of changing demographics. Well that's my point exactly,so I guess we agree? They love illegal inmigrants because their children vote democrat (and so will they with the "path to citizenship"). So you are perfectly ok with the replacement of the native population?
Literally nothing is more in line with the dreams of the American founders than a bunch of people with their own language, culture and race exterminating the existing population and building their own country on the corpses.
Also immigrants typically vote Democrat because Democrats don't spend all their time trying to fuck them over. The fact that the pro-life Republican party has somehow managed to lose the hardline Catholic vote is really pretty incredible. There is nothing innately Democratic leaning about immigrants, it's what happens after they immigrate that turns them into Democrats.
Also if the US didn't want so many Hispanic people maybe they should have thought of that before they took over the northern half of Mexico and included it within the US. And then thought of it again before they invited waves of Hispanic immigration to deal with labor shortages.
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United Kingdom13779 Posts
Quite a few immigrants would very much be willing conservatives if they weren't treated like garbage by the Republicans. Mexicans are highly religious. East Europeans are really not that liberal with the exception of healthcare and education and agree with a lot of the hardliners in the Republican Party. Blacks in conservative states are usually far from being Bernie bro liberals and are much ideologically closer to the right. But if the party says "deport all those losers" then they can't vote Republican.
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Trump is actually jealous of Clinton that celebrities are shunning him lol...it's like he's not a "star" anymore. And he just can't help but comment on it...
Sarasota, Florida (CNN) — Donald Trump on Monday mocked hip-hop music as he once again criticized the performance Jay Z and Beyonce delivered at a rally for Hillary Clinton, asking whether it was "talking or singing."
"The language is so bad and as they were singing -- singing right? Was it talking or singing? Right? But the language was so bad," Trump said Monday during his first of five rallies the day before Election Day.
Trump's apparent criticism of rap and hip-hop comes in spite of the GOP nominee's repeated attempts to appeal to African-American voters during the final months of his campaign. It also comes as Clinton has ramped up get out the vote efforts in recent days by targeting young and African-American voters in particular.
CNN
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On November 08 2016 03:26 GoTuNk! wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2016 22:46 Plansix wrote:On November 07 2016 22:27 GoTuNk! wrote:On November 07 2016 22:03 Doodsmack wrote:
Virginia's highest court ruled in July that Gov McAuliffe can't pardon felons en masse (to free them up to vote), but must consider them on a case by case basis. He then managed to pardon 60,000 felons by using a mechanical pen that signed letters very quickly. Guess they are Democratic voters lol. Wonder if this could be challenged after the election... Well they are hell bent on creating and open border so more democrats can come in, this would be the next step. The more, the merrier (as long as they vote democrat). They don’t even need open borders. The natural progression of demographics will make whites the minority by 2040. In 2020 there will be more non-white children than white children in the US. All citizens able to vote. NPR reported last week the Texas has the shifted to a non-white majority population, but the voter participation is leans to white voters. Unless the Republicans ditch their current tactics, they will fade into a nothing party by the sheer weight of changing demographics. Well that's my point exactly,so I guess we agree? They love illegal inmigrants because their children vote democrat (and so will they with the "path to citizenship"). So you are perfectly ok with the replacement of the native population?
Yes. This is America, land created and defined by immigrants. If democrats manage to capture the hearts and minds of immigrant voters, then they deserve the vote. I don’t fear immigrants or their prominence in politics.
You seem to be operating under the assumption that immigrants vote democrat automatically. That is not true and Republicans have done well with immigrant populations in previous elections. But the xenophobic scree that has taken over their parties platform has driven all minority groups to democrats. Along with a lot of women who can't deal with the sexism that the Republican party willingly ignores. You see this by the blatant attempts in states like NC to repress voters. They don't even try to hide it at this point.
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On November 08 2016 03:34 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2016 03:26 GoTuNk! wrote:On November 07 2016 22:46 Plansix wrote:On November 07 2016 22:27 GoTuNk! wrote:On November 07 2016 22:03 Doodsmack wrote:
Virginia's highest court ruled in July that Gov McAuliffe can't pardon felons en masse (to free them up to vote), but must consider them on a case by case basis. He then managed to pardon 60,000 felons by using a mechanical pen that signed letters very quickly. Guess they are Democratic voters lol. Wonder if this could be challenged after the election... Well they are hell bent on creating and open border so more democrats can come in, this would be the next step. The more, the merrier (as long as they vote democrat). They don’t even need open borders. The natural progression of demographics will make whites the minority by 2040. In 2020 there will be more non-white children than white children in the US. All citizens able to vote. NPR reported last week the Texas has the shifted to a non-white majority population, but the voter participation is leans to white voters. Unless the Republicans ditch their current tactics, they will fade into a nothing party by the sheer weight of changing demographics. Well that's my point exactly,so I guess we agree? They love illegal inmigrants because their children vote democrat (and so will they with the "path to citizenship"). So you are perfectly ok with the replacement of the native population? Literally nothing is more in line with the dreams of the American founders than a bunch of people with their own language, culture and race exterminating the existing population and building their own country on the corpses. Also immigrants typically vote Democrat because Democrats don't spend all their time trying to fuck them over. The fact that the pro-life Republican party has somehow managed to lose the hardline Catholic vote is really pretty incredible. There is nothing innately Democratic leaning about immigrants, it's what happens after they immigrate that turns them into Democrats.
Also if the US didn't want so many Hispanic people maybe they should have thought of that before they took over the northern half of Mexico and included it within the US. And then thought of it again before they invited waves of Hispanic immigration to deal with labor shortages.
Always mind boggling to me how they apparently don't understand this. If they continue to dig their heels in they're going to become totally irrelevant. You've gotta come to your senses and change your tune at some point and the sooner it happens the better for them as far as switching people over. However instead of doing that and becoming softer on the issue they decided to go 180 degrees in the other direction with their nominee. It's so short sighted and stupid I just don't get it. I guess the plan, if there is one, is to wait till the last possible second, then wait a few minutes longer, then switch when its way too late.
On November 08 2016 03:42 Doodsmack wrote:Trump is actually jealous of Clinton that celebrities are shunning him lol...it's like he's not a "star" anymore. And he just can't help but comment on it... Show nested quote +Sarasota, Florida (CNN) — Donald Trump on Monday mocked hip-hop music as he once again criticized the performance Jay Z and Beyonce delivered at a rally for Hillary Clinton, asking whether it was "talking or singing."
"The language is so bad and as they were singing -- singing right? Was it talking or singing? Right? But the language was so bad," Trump said Monday during his first of five rallies the day before Election Day.
Trump's apparent criticism of rap and hip-hop comes in spite of the GOP nominee's repeated attempts to appeal to African-American voters during the final months of his campaign. It also comes as Clinton has ramped up get out the vote efforts in recent days by targeting young and African-American voters in particular. CNN
Meanwhile Trump had Ted Nugent with him literally grabbing his penis on stage. The man also uses "motherfucker" in speeches and says we should "bomb the shit out of them" at rallies but he's trying to claim the moral high ground. Oh boy we're living in a fevered dream guys.
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On November 08 2016 03:42 OuchyDathurts wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2016 03:34 KwarK wrote:On November 08 2016 03:26 GoTuNk! wrote:On November 07 2016 22:46 Plansix wrote:On November 07 2016 22:27 GoTuNk! wrote:On November 07 2016 22:03 Doodsmack wrote:
Virginia's highest court ruled in July that Gov McAuliffe can't pardon felons en masse (to free them up to vote), but must consider them on a case by case basis. He then managed to pardon 60,000 felons by using a mechanical pen that signed letters very quickly. Guess they are Democratic voters lol. Wonder if this could be challenged after the election... Well they are hell bent on creating and open border so more democrats can come in, this would be the next step. The more, the merrier (as long as they vote democrat). They don’t even need open borders. The natural progression of demographics will make whites the minority by 2040. In 2020 there will be more non-white children than white children in the US. All citizens able to vote. NPR reported last week the Texas has the shifted to a non-white majority population, but the voter participation is leans to white voters. Unless the Republicans ditch their current tactics, they will fade into a nothing party by the sheer weight of changing demographics. Well that's my point exactly,so I guess we agree? They love illegal inmigrants because their children vote democrat (and so will they with the "path to citizenship"). So you are perfectly ok with the replacement of the native population? Literally nothing is more in line with the dreams of the American founders than a bunch of people with their own language, culture and race exterminating the existing population and building their own country on the corpses. Also immigrants typically vote Democrat because Democrats don't spend all their time trying to fuck them over. The fact that the pro-life Republican party has somehow managed to lose the hardline Catholic vote is really pretty incredible. There is nothing innately Democratic leaning about immigrants, it's what happens after they immigrate that turns them into Democrats.
Also if the US didn't want so many Hispanic people maybe they should have thought of that before they took over the northern half of Mexico and included it within the US. And then thought of it again before they invited waves of Hispanic immigration to deal with labor shortages. Always mind boggling to me how they apparently don't understand this. If they continue to dig their heels in they're going to become totally irrelevant. You've gotta come to your senses and change your tune at some point and the sooner it happens the better for them as far as switching people over. However instead of doing that and becoming softer on the issue they decided to go 180 degrees in the other direction with their nominee. It's so short sighted and stupid I just don't get it. I guess the plan, if there is one, is to wait till the last possible second, then wait a few minutes longer, then switch when its way too late.
They state in legal briefing that too many blacks voted that leaned democrat and complain about polls being open to more Latinos can vote. When there are days of voting left. It is like they don’t even want to play the game anymore unless they can change the rules so only they win.
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Given all the polls that have come out, I'm ready to call this election for Clinton
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Nevada, Florida and North Carolina turned blue in the 538 model.
The model always takes a few days to catch up news impact so we are probably only seeing the beginning of Clinton's recovery after the fbi bullshit finished. Common sense say that therefore polls and models will underestimate Clinton's chances.
All in all i'm very optimistic 
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United Kingdom13779 Posts
Tomorrow night, we shall know. The results will be one for the history cubes either way.
I'm quite sure Hillary will win, though I don't know what will come of "this election is rigged" worries. It could be trouble.
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On November 08 2016 03:53 LegalLord wrote:
Tomorrow night, we shall know. The results will be one for the history cubes either way.
This is dependent on one side accepting the result. I’m not sure that is going to happen. If Trump doesn’t accept the result, we are in uncharted waters.
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United States43125 Posts
On November 08 2016 03:51 plasmidghost wrote:
Given all the polls that have come out, I'm ready to call this election for Clinton
We're still within the margin of error. If a poll says Clinton +2 (margin of error +-3) then we have a range of options from Clinton +5 to Trump +1. Clinton +2 is the approximate average but Trump +1 is an outcome that was supported by the range the polls predicted, if that makes sense.
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On November 08 2016 03:55 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2016 03:53 LegalLord wrote:
Tomorrow night, we shall know. The results will be one for the history cubes either way. This is dependent on one side accepting the result. I’m not sure that is going to happen. If Trump doesn’t accept the result, we are in uncharted waters.
I expect the republican party to nuke him from orbit as soon as this farce is over. I think his influence will vanish in a matter of hours.
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I think Biff is right. Hes gonna get yanked off the stage with a giant cane pretty quick.
he could still start a civil war (within the party) by telling his supporters to not vote for republican leadership and nominating trump-friendly primary candidates for house and senate in 2018
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On November 08 2016 03:56 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2016 03:55 Plansix wrote:On November 08 2016 03:53 LegalLord wrote:
Tomorrow night, we shall know. The results will be one for the history cubes either way. This is dependent on one side accepting the result. I’m not sure that is going to happen. If Trump doesn’t accept the result, we are in uncharted waters. I expect the republican party to nuke him from orbit as soon as this farce is over. I think his influence will vanish in a matter of hours.
I expect all of humanity to nuke him from orbit once the race is called. It's going to be glorious honestly. Watching him endure the most public loss the planet has to offer when in his own mind he's never lost in his life? He's going to take a world class beating from every side. Republicans are going to be looking around to see how much of congress they still control and get their game plan together to spend 4 more years blocking everything. They'll drop him like old news instantly.
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Paul Ryan has bet his career and the future of the party on a trump defeat. While I can't say the party will change much I am hopeful for an end to the post bush hangover for the party as they form an opposition to hillary and the dems.
People are going to yell but things won't be nearly as bad as people are calling it to be. I gotta belive things were worse in the 70s out of hope if nothing else.
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On November 08 2016 04:03 OuchyDathurts wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2016 03:56 Biff The Understudy wrote:On November 08 2016 03:55 Plansix wrote:On November 08 2016 03:53 LegalLord wrote:
Tomorrow night, we shall know. The results will be one for the history cubes either way. This is dependent on one side accepting the result. I’m not sure that is going to happen. If Trump doesn’t accept the result, we are in uncharted waters. I expect the republican party to nuke him from orbit as soon as this farce is over. I think his influence will vanish in a matter of hours. I expect all of humanity to nuke him from orbit once the race is called. It's going to be glorious honestly. Watching him endure the most public loss the planet has to offer when in his own mind he's never lost in his life? He's going to take a world class beating from every side. Republicans are going to be looking around to see how much of congress they still control and get their game plan together to spend 4 more years blocking everything. They'll drop him like old news instantly.
It's not over, but let's hope you are right. The polls are still within the margin of error even though i think they are underestimating Clinton.
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On November 08 2016 03:42 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2016 03:26 GoTuNk! wrote:On November 07 2016 22:46 Plansix wrote:On November 07 2016 22:27 GoTuNk! wrote:On November 07 2016 22:03 Doodsmack wrote:
Virginia's highest court ruled in July that Gov McAuliffe can't pardon felons en masse (to free them up to vote), but must consider them on a case by case basis. He then managed to pardon 60,000 felons by using a mechanical pen that signed letters very quickly. Guess they are Democratic voters lol. Wonder if this could be challenged after the election... Well they are hell bent on creating and open border so more democrats can come in, this would be the next step. The more, the merrier (as long as they vote democrat). They don’t even need open borders. The natural progression of demographics will make whites the minority by 2040. In 2020 there will be more non-white children than white children in the US. All citizens able to vote. NPR reported last week the Texas has the shifted to a non-white majority population, but the voter participation is leans to white voters. Unless the Republicans ditch their current tactics, they will fade into a nothing party by the sheer weight of changing demographics. Well that's my point exactly,so I guess we agree? They love illegal inmigrants because their children vote democrat (and so will they with the "path to citizenship"). So you are perfectly ok with the replacement of the native population? Yes. This is America, land created and defined by immigrants. If democrats manage to capture the hearts and minds of immigrant voters, then they deserve the vote. I don’t fear immigrants or their prominence in politics. You seem to be operating under the assumption that immigrants vote democrat automatically. That is not true and Republicans have done well with immigrant populations in previous elections. But the xenophobic scree that has taken over their parties platform has driven all minority groups to democrats. Along with a lot of women who can't deal with the sexism that the Republican party willingly ignores. You see this by the blatant attempts in states like NC to repress voters. They don't even try to hide it at this point.
I do not have a problem with inmigrants.
I have a problem with ILLEGAL inmigrants, and more so, with ILLEGAL Inmigrants collecting welfare.
The core issues that republican's identify with (small goverment, no welfare) is at odds with the preferences of the currents inmigrants, this is indispituable. The democrats are basically bribing them to come in trough the welfare state, and obviously they vote for the party that promises more free stuff and citizenship after getting in illegaly and skipping line.
It's not about being "racist", it's about the ideas they support and for who do they vote. If they were rednecks who disproportionally use welfare and because of that vote democrat it would still be a problem for the Republican Party.
TLDR: The problem is not that they are mexicans and it's not about "racism", it's that they vote democrat and want bigger government. They could be Japanese and it wouldn't make a difference.
I agree with you that if the borders are not enforced, the Republican Party won't win an election in the next 40 years.
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On November 08 2016 03:42 OuchyDathurts wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2016 03:34 KwarK wrote:On November 08 2016 03:26 GoTuNk! wrote:On November 07 2016 22:46 Plansix wrote:On November 07 2016 22:27 GoTuNk! wrote:On November 07 2016 22:03 Doodsmack wrote:
Virginia's highest court ruled in July that Gov McAuliffe can't pardon felons en masse (to free them up to vote), but must consider them on a case by case basis. He then managed to pardon 60,000 felons by using a mechanical pen that signed letters very quickly. Guess they are Democratic voters lol. Wonder if this could be challenged after the election... Well they are hell bent on creating and open border so more democrats can come in, this would be the next step. The more, the merrier (as long as they vote democrat). They don’t even need open borders. The natural progression of demographics will make whites the minority by 2040. In 2020 there will be more non-white children than white children in the US. All citizens able to vote. NPR reported last week the Texas has the shifted to a non-white majority population, but the voter participation is leans to white voters. Unless the Republicans ditch their current tactics, they will fade into a nothing party by the sheer weight of changing demographics. Well that's my point exactly,so I guess we agree? They love illegal inmigrants because their children vote democrat (and so will they with the "path to citizenship"). So you are perfectly ok with the replacement of the native population? Literally nothing is more in line with the dreams of the American founders than a bunch of people with their own language, culture and race exterminating the existing population and building their own country on the corpses. Also immigrants typically vote Democrat because Democrats don't spend all their time trying to fuck them over. The fact that the pro-life Republican party has somehow managed to lose the hardline Catholic vote is really pretty incredible. There is nothing innately Democratic leaning about immigrants, it's what happens after they immigrate that turns them into Democrats.
Also if the US didn't want so many Hispanic people maybe they should have thought of that before they took over the northern half of Mexico and included it within the US. And then thought of it again before they invited waves of Hispanic immigration to deal with labor shortages. Always mind boggling to me how they apparently don't understand this. If they continue to dig their heels in they're going to become totally irrelevant. You've gotta come to your senses and change your tune at some point and the sooner it happens the better for them as far as switching people over. However instead of doing that and becoming softer on the issue they decided to go 180 degrees in the other direction with their nominee. It's so short sighted and stupid I just don't get it. I guess the plan, if there is one, is to wait till the last possible second, then wait a few minutes longer, then switch when its way too late. Show nested quote +On November 08 2016 03:42 Doodsmack wrote:Trump is actually jealous of Clinton that celebrities are shunning him lol...it's like he's not a "star" anymore. And he just can't help but comment on it... Sarasota, Florida (CNN) — Donald Trump on Monday mocked hip-hop music as he once again criticized the performance Jay Z and Beyonce delivered at a rally for Hillary Clinton, asking whether it was "talking or singing."
"The language is so bad and as they were singing -- singing right? Was it talking or singing? Right? But the language was so bad," Trump said Monday during his first of five rallies the day before Election Day.
Trump's apparent criticism of rap and hip-hop comes in spite of the GOP nominee's repeated attempts to appeal to African-American voters during the final months of his campaign. It also comes as Clinton has ramped up get out the vote efforts in recent days by targeting young and African-American voters in particular. CNN Meanwhile Trump had Ted Nugent with him literally grabbing his penis on stage. The man also uses "motherfucker" in speeches and says we should "bomb the shit out of them" at rallies but he's trying to claim the moral high ground. Oh boy we're living in a fevered dream guys.
When you're dealing with a party that wants to upend current law and open a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants, you can't compete by just becoming the same and pandering for votes, because Democrats are better at it. There's actual principles at stake.
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EPT
