|
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On October 08 2016 09:42 Orome wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2016 09:34 TheTenthDoc wrote:On October 08 2016 09:32 Orome wrote:
Of all the things Trump has said and done it's this bit of moronic machoism from 11 years ago that people care about? I'll never understand US politics. It turns out saying you grab married women by their pussies right after you got married kind of turns a lot of people off more than most sexist comments. Plus it's the perfect crystallization of his post-debate women issues. Where does he say he grabs married women by their pussies? The line goes 'you can do anything [when you're a star]. grab them by their pussies.' Can. Not 'I did that to that married woman I couldn't get with.' Do you honestly think we wouldn't know about it at this point if Trump routinely grabbed the crotch of every other woman he meets? I can't believe I'm actually defending Donald fucking Trump after yet another display of why he's a despicable human being, but holy shit this false gleeful outrage is annoying and exactly the type of dishonest embellishment that seems to always get in the way of actual political discourse.
Sorry, I omitted the can. He just says he *can* grab married women by their pussies. Wow, so much better.
But if you want to know why this is what people care about-it's because it's just even worse than everything else he's done, and it comes on the heels of two weeks of him struggling with what he's said about women that was far less disgusting than this.
|
On October 08 2016 09:47 On_Slaught wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2016 09:42 Orome wrote:On October 08 2016 09:34 TheTenthDoc wrote:On October 08 2016 09:32 Orome wrote:
Of all the things Trump has said and done it's this bit of moronic machoism from 11 years ago that people care about? I'll never understand US politics. It turns out saying you grab married women by their pussies right after you got married kind of turns a lot of people off more than most sexist comments. Plus it's the perfect crystallization of his post-debate women issues. Where does he say he grabs married women by their pussies? The line goes 'you can do anything [when you're a star]. grab them by their pussies.' Can. Not 'I did that to that married woman I couldn't get with.' Do you honestly think we wouldn't know about it at this point if Trump routinely grabbed the crotch of every other woman he meets? I can't believe I'm actually defending Donald fucking Trump after yet another display of why he's a despicable human being, but holy shit this false gleeful outrage is annoying and exactly the type of dishonest embellishment that seems to always get in the way of actual political discourse. He's endorsing the idea. Also: 1. Famous people can do anything they want to women. 2. Donald Trump is famous. 3. One notable thing you can do to women is grab their pussy. The fact that Trump apologized, if you can call it that, immediately after this was announced shows you even he recognizes this doesn't look good.
Did I not make it clear enough that I fully agree he comes off - yet again - as a horrible human being in that video? In case I didn't: I agree.
|
It's optics again, no one cares about his actual comments. I don't see anyone crying about rap or hip hop where women are reduced to dirt ever even on college campuses. It's fair though, when you are trying to be POTUS, you can't have that shit on you, but this is an election where a billionaire playboy is the nominee and not a politician. Off putting statements, sad to see them but at the same time I don't think it qualifies as him being a predator. When you are rich and famous, buses of women are throwing themselves at you, so it's easy to develop such a mindset where you can treat them like shit and still get attention because they give to him regardless of what he does. Women still throw themselves at chris brown, it is what it is.
|
Norway28736 Posts
On October 08 2016 09:42 Orome wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2016 09:34 TheTenthDoc wrote:On October 08 2016 09:32 Orome wrote:
Of all the things Trump has said and done it's this bit of moronic machoism from 11 years ago that people care about? I'll never understand US politics. It turns out saying you grab married women by their pussies right after you got married kind of turns a lot of people off more than most sexist comments. Plus it's the perfect crystallization of his post-debate women issues. Where does he say he grabs married women by their pussies? The line goes 'you can do anything [when you're a star]. grab them by their pussies.' Can. Not 'I did that to that married woman I couldn't get with.' Do you honestly think we wouldn't know about it at this point if Trump routinely grabbed the crotch of every other woman he meets? I can't believe I'm actually defending Donald fucking Trump after yet another display of why he's a despicable human being, but holy shit this false gleeful outrage is annoying and exactly the type of dishonest embellishment that seems to always get in the way of actual political discourse.
Four quotes from the clip;
“I moved on her like a bitch, but I couldn’t get there. And she was married.”
“I did try and fuck her. She was married.”
“Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything.”
“Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything.”
He's advocating going after a married woman. Big no-no for many people. Then he says that when he (privately) meets a hot girl, he just kisses them, doesn't even wait, and that because he is a star, they let him do it - he can do anything, grab them by the pussy, he can do anything. The grab them by the pussy actually follows him talking about what he himself does.
Basically, he is on tape saying that sometimes when he's with a hot girl, he just kisses her and grabs her by the pussy and they let him do it because he's a star. This is way, way harder to deflect than any previous scandal, it's an unedited clip of him, large segments of society, for once including many of his voters, find the statements 'deplorable', and the catchiness of the phrase 'grab them by the pussy' ensures that it's not gonna be forgotten. He's not bouncing back from this.
|
On October 08 2016 09:32 GoTuNk! wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2016 08:55 CobaltBlu wrote:Just a day after Donald Trump officially became the Republican presidential nominee, a woman broke her silence on allegations that he sexually assaulted her. In an interview with the Guardian published today, Jill Harth detailed how Trump made numerous sexual advances toward her in 1993, culminating when she says he cornered and groped her in a bedroom. Harth attempted to press charges in 1997 but withdrew her lawsuit and has since remained quiet about the case. She says that since her allegations resurfaced in a May New York Times article about Trump's treatment of women, the Trump campaign has continuously pressured her to recant her account.
Harth says she first met Trump in 1992 during a business presentation, when she was working with the American Dream beauty pageant festival. Harth was with her romantic partner, George Houraney, at the time, but Harth says that did not deter Trump from sexually pursuing her. Trump "stared at her" throughout her meeting, according to Harth, and then asked Houraney: "Are you sleeping with her or what?" When Houraney said yes, Trump asked if it was "for the weekend or what?”
In Harth's 1997 lawsuit, she describes several instances in which Trump allegedly harassed her. In one instance, Harth says Trump groped her under the table during a dinner with beauty pageant contestants. Then in 1993, Harth says, Trump cornered her in a bedroom in his Florida mansion during a business visit, an incident described in the lawsuit as an "attempted 'rape'." Harth tells the Guardian:
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/07/donald-trump-sexual-assault-allegations-breaks-silenceSounds familiar to what we heard today. This sounds like a hoax if ever read one. 20 years later, rly?
Well the lawsuit is from '97 but what I found interesting was that her allegations match up with the way he describes his own behavior. Doesn't care that she is in a relationship and moves on her aggressively without consent. Just interesting.
|
On October 08 2016 09:52 biology]major wrote:
It's optics again, no one cares about his actual comments. I don't see anyone crying about rap or hip hop where women are reduced to dirt ever even on college campuses. It's fair though, when you are trying to be POTUS, you can't have that shit on you, but this is an election where a billionaire playboy is the nominee and not a politician. Off putting statements, sad to see them but at the same time I don't think it qualifies as him being a predator. When you are rich and famous, buses of women are throwing themselves at you, so it's easy to develop such a mindset where you can treat them like shit and still get attention because they give to him regardless of what he does. Women still throw themselves at chris brown, it is what it is.
More of the classic "Yeah but..." Donald Trump defense. Its the only defense anyone has for him every single time something comes up. You do understand that's not actually a defense right? Its an admission of guilt. "Sure Trump is a piece of shit but what about rappers saying naughty stuff too?". You're admitting Trump is garbage and rappers aren't on trial.
"Look your honor I murdered that hooker, but Jeffrey Dahmer was a bad person so...." Outstanding defense, now enjoy the death sentence, no one will miss you.
|
|
|
On October 08 2016 09:52 biology]major wrote:
It's optics again, no one cares about his actual comments. I don't see anyone crying about rap or hip hop where women are reduced to dirt ever even on college campuses. It's fair though, when you are trying to be POTUS, you can't have that shit on you, but this is an election where a billionaire playboy is the nominee and not a politician. Off putting statements, sad to see them but at the same time I don't think it qualifies as him being a predator. When you are rich and famous, buses of women are throwing themselves at you, so it's easy to develop such a mindset where you can treat them like shit and still get attention because they give to him regardless of what he does. Women still throw themselves at chris brown, it is what it is.
People really gave a shit about hip hop, I remember the outrage when Cop Killer came out, I'm pretty sure Bush denounced the whole album
|
I don't have the motivation to keep arguing so I'll just shut up and be happy that the donald seems to have managed to shoot himself in the foot yet again.
|
|
|
I wonder how this will change the poll numbers. Is the turnaround time for polls any shorter as we get closer to election time?
|
Oh god this is coming off the rails even faster than I expected.
|
As much as I'd love to see this incident become the end of Trump, I doubt it's a death knell. It confirms what we've known for a long time anyways, and only makes it more apparent most women won't ever dream of voting for him. At the same time, Trump's survived serious accusations of tax evasion and had hordes of defenders rise, so he could shrug this off decently by his standards unless he makes a total buffoon of himself.
|
On October 08 2016 10:12 PhoenixVoid wrote:
As much as I'd love to see this incident become the end of Trump, I doubt it's a death knell. It confirms what we've known for a long time anyways, and only makes it more apparent most women won't ever dream of voting for him. At the same time, Trump's survived serious accusations of tax evasion and had hordes of defenders rise, so he could shrug this off decently by his standards unless he makes a total buffoon of himself.
there are some demographics he suprisingly isnt polling in single digits with.
|
This is a little too far for trump. Had he not been married at this point it would have been easier to shrug off. The good news for him, is that he can only go up from here.
On a different note, anything of value from wikileaks or the wsj report lately for Clinton?>
|
On October 08 2016 10:12 PhoenixVoid wrote:
As much as I'd love to see this incident become the end of Trump, I doubt it's a death knell. It confirms what we've known for a long time anyways, and only makes it more apparent most women won't ever dream of voting for him. At the same time, Trump's survived serious accusations of tax evasion and had hordes of defenders rise, so he could shrug this off decently by his standards unless he makes a total buffoon of himself.
This is a sex scandal (or at least has very deep sexual undertones). Americans care deeply about sex scandals. They're easy to understand. Tax evasion is something only accountants, the FBI, and mobsters care about, really. There's no visceral reaction to hearing someone cheated on their taxes - it's almost expected. Tax policy is complex and it has to be broken down in order for the majority of people to understand the problem with what Trump did. The average american is not necessarily stupid, but they are overworked and with limited free time. If it can't be understood innately then a large % flat out can not afford to give the time to care about the issue.
Hearing someone advocate for groping pussy can inspire a visceral disgust. And it give news stations an excuse to skirt censor laws and blast pictures of the attractive female who was being spoken of in the audio (Nancy O'Dell, of Access Hollywood - cohost of the person Trump was speaking with, if anyone was wondering). Visceral disgust is what our politics revolves around. It's sad, but eh.
|
On October 08 2016 10:10 zlefin wrote:
I wonder how this will change the poll numbers. Is the turnaround time for polls any shorter as we get closer to election time?
Yes, there's a lot more 2-3 day polls around this time than during summer, but the 5-7 day ones are considered more accurate
|
Nice little dump in time for the Sunday debate.
|
On October 08 2016 10:12 PhoenixVoid wrote:
As much as I'd love to see this incident become the end of Trump, I doubt it's a death knell. It confirms what we've known for a long time anyways, and only makes it more apparent most women won't ever dream of voting for him. At the same time, Trump's survived serious accusations of tax evasion and had hordes of defenders rise, so he could shrug this off decently by his standards unless he makes a total buffoon of himself.
This might not be the death knell but you're seeing the crew of the SS Trump standing on the railings getting ready to jump ship before he crashes into shore and kills the entire Republican crew. The ship is taking on water, they don't know how much more of this it can handle. They know if the captain keeps it up and runs ashore everyone loses. All those smaller races they need to win to try and keep Hillary in check are going to get dicey. This might not specifically be the end but everyone in the party is eyeing each other, they know they can't handle too much more of this.
|
As with many things, there's a sort of a tentative acceptance/alliance; there's a lot of people looking at a lot of other people deciding whether to stay the course or ditch; at some point it can happen that enough people feel they should ditch that everyone starts doing it very rapidly. This is rather like a bank run; and i'm sure there's alot of other analogies as well. It can shift very rapidly if it reaches a critical mass.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
