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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
plasmidghost
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Belgium16168 Posts
October 05 2016 01:49 GMT
#106581
Honestly, if these two were running for president, it would be the most boring election, but I'd gladly take it over the dumpster-tier shitshow we have right now
Yugoslavia will always live on in my heart
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
October 05 2016 01:49 GMT
#106582
On October 05 2016 10:48 Slaughter wrote:
Is Kaine's job just to try to bring up some of Trump's crazier stuff over and over again?

Of course it is, but he's undermining his cause with his presentation. It's hard to call a guy an asshole when you look like an asshole.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
October 05 2016 01:50 GMT
#106583
On October 05 2016 10:48 OuchyDathurts wrote:
At the end of the day this debate is pointless because not a soul on earth is going to change their vote because of the VPs.

i think it's good ot have them; just for those elections where the vp's do matter.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23221 Posts
October 05 2016 01:50 GMT
#106584
On October 05 2016 10:48 OuchyDathurts wrote:
At the end of the day this debate is pointless because not a soul on earth is going to change their vote because of the VPs.


That's the popular take, but for people who desperately don't want to vote for either, this could give them the out of voting "for VP" instead. Pence has done a good job so far of not saying anything that would make a typical American say "How could you vote for that guy!?" like trump seems to do daily.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
OuchyDathurts
Profile Joined September 2010
United States4588 Posts
October 05 2016 01:50 GMT
#106585
On October 05 2016 10:49 CorsairHero wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 05 2016 10:48 OuchyDathurts wrote:
At the end of the day this debate is pointless because not a soul on earth is going to change their vote because of the VPs.

Palin?


That was 8 years ago. That has nothing to do with this election.
LiquidDota Staff
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4748 Posts
October 05 2016 01:52 GMT
#106586
"It is therefore only at the birth of a society that one can be completely logical in the laws. When you see a people enjoying this advantage, do not hasten to conclude that it is wise; think rather that it is young." -Alexis de Tocqueville
Slaughter
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States20254 Posts
October 05 2016 01:52 GMT
#106587
Pence presents his stuff better but his ideas are just shit or generic. Kaine seems super sloppy.
Never Knows Best.
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States5583 Posts
October 05 2016 01:52 GMT
#106588
You didn't have to see Palin at the debate to make up your mind about the ticket.
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
Dan HH
Profile Joined July 2012
Romania9118 Posts
October 05 2016 01:52 GMT
#106589
'I think it's a great question Elaine, but I'm just gonna ignore it'
Stratos_speAr
Profile Joined May 2009
United States6959 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-05 01:56:09
October 05 2016 01:53 GMT
#106590
On October 05 2016 10:49 zlefin wrote:
kaine definitely looking worse than pence;

pence has worse material to work with having to cover trump, but he's doing a better job overall.

nothing of real use on policy.


Kaine looks more gruff and less charismatic, but is running circles around Pence in terms of actual policy by naming off specific plan points. Kane also making Pence look like a fool by forcing him to defend Trump.
A sound mind in a sound body, is a short, but full description of a happy state in this World: he that has these two, has little more to wish for; and he that wants either of them, will be little the better for anything else.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
October 05 2016 01:53 GMT
#106591
On October 05 2016 10:50 zlefin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 05 2016 10:48 OuchyDathurts wrote:
At the end of the day this debate is pointless because not a soul on earth is going to change their vote because of the VPs.

i think it's good ot have them; just for those elections where the vp's do matter.

They are a way to cover for the weaknesses of the presidential candidate. Biden gave a "I'll keep this spring chicken on track" feel to Obama, Palin gave a "hope he doesn't die" feel to McCain. Pence is a Republican anchor for Trump. Kaine is... an uninspiring Hillary clone.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
October 05 2016 01:53 GMT
#106592
Ugh, boooo to kaine, stop shitting things up. I could do a better job than that, just by saying the same lines without interrupting.
heck, just give an actor other than keanu reeves the same script and tell them not to interrupt and they'd do better.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
October 05 2016 01:53 GMT
#106593
Let's be real though, only the most die hard of the diehard political people are actually watching this particular debate. The big thing are going to be what soundbites come of this over the next week - that's what Kaine is aiming for. It doesn't matter that he is coming across like an asshole here.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23221 Posts
October 05 2016 01:54 GMT
#106594
"I do not recall" But if I did ask if we could drone strike Assange it was just a little assassination humor among those with the capability to make it a reality.

"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
October 05 2016 01:55 GMT
#106595
"Paris' 9/11", do people really say that?
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States5583 Posts
October 05 2016 01:55 GMT
#106596
Kaine hoping for an intelligence surge apparently.
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
Nakajin
Profile Blog Joined September 2014
Canada8989 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-05 01:56:12
October 05 2016 01:55 GMT
#106597
On October 05 2016 10:55 Toadesstern wrote:
"Paris' 9/11", do people really say that?


No, probably just to make it reliable to American.
Writerhttp://i.imgur.com/9p6ufcB.jpg
Kickstart
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1941 Posts
October 05 2016 01:56 GMT
#106598
On October 05 2016 10:47 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 05 2016 10:42 Kickstart wrote:
On October 05 2016 10:39 GreenHorizons wrote:
On October 05 2016 10:31 Kickstart wrote:
On October 05 2016 10:26 CorsairHero wrote:
On October 05 2016 10:25 Kickstart wrote:
Trump and Pence getting slaughtered over Trump's taxes.

what's there to be slaughtered about
he had a bad year and crystallized his losses

That not paying taxes makes him smart.
That his losses (potentially, since we don't know without him releasing his tax info) allow him to not pay taxes for several years to come.
That he lost nearly $1B in the casino industry.

Of course his supporters will explain how it was all legal and how it is for businesses to incur loses and continue to operate. My father owned his own business, at one point it was the 3rd largest residential roofing company in our state. He then did a job for a large hotel chain, who, like Trump, didn't pay any of the people they contracted work out to. After they strung him along to complete the job and got all the work out of him, he got nothing. Point being, what is 'legal' and what is morally correct are not always the same.


My question is do people think Democrats just found out about this now? They didn't care when he did it, just when he was in the way of them being in the white house.

This type of stuff has actually gotten worse under Obama.

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/tax-advantages-landlords-married-real-estate-professionals.html

Frankly neither party has done enough to change it. You are right to be upset with the left though, because traditionally it would be a liberal principle to push to remove such loopholes. I don't think anyone is claiming that anyone just now found out that these things happen.


Like I said though, the left hasn't just sat on their hands, they've actively made it worse. If they aren't just finding it out, than why should anyone believe they are actually upset and not just pointing out the bad optics of something they helped create without taking any responsibility?


The point really isn't if 'the establishment left' is upset about it. The point is the average american who pays their fair share of taxes and doesn't use these loopholes are upset about it (or should be~). Yes we have problems because of the nature of our current two party system, one of them being the issues you brought up.
But voting for the candidate that uses such loopholes and brags about it, and who wants to further decrease taxes on the top %es, over the candidate whose platform is on reform and not giving the rich further tax breaks, seems counter-productive at best.
plasmidghost
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Belgium16168 Posts
October 05 2016 01:56 GMT
#106599
shots fired
Yugoslavia will always live on in my heart
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4748 Posts
October 05 2016 01:56 GMT
#106600
Hillary is going to hire the best people, the very best.
"It is therefore only at the birth of a society that one can be completely logical in the laws. When you see a people enjoying this advantage, do not hasten to conclude that it is wise; think rather that it is young." -Alexis de Tocqueville
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