|
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
When someone is stupid you can call them stupid. The only difference is this word has historical baggage associated with racism.
I just call idiots GGTeMpLaR, it's just a thing I do in my head. I hope you'll excuse that peculiar mannerism because I know that the term carries some historical baggage on this forum. It's got nothing to do with you per se
|
United States44373 Posts
On September 23 2016 06:46 GGTeMpLaR wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2016 06:38 Nebuchad wrote:On September 23 2016 06:37 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On September 23 2016 06:36 ticklishmusic wrote:
Maybe we should have an experiment. GGTemplar can call a white guy on the street a monkey for "doing something dumb". Then he call a black person that and we can compare the results. Oh I don't go around calling people on the street monkey that is just retarded. On September 23 2016 06:37 Nebuchad wrote:On September 23 2016 06:36 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On September 23 2016 06:30 Slaughter wrote:
The problem is that terms like monkey is rarely applied to white people, even when they are doing bad things. So what about me? I've thought of more white people as 'fucking monkeys' thank blacks. You might be surprised to learn that the way people speak around the world isn't generally based on what you think. Nope not surprised at all. As I've said, I've come to learn I am very different than most people. So if you aren't surprised, why did you say "What about me?" as if it was surprising that the english language didn't stop to consider all of your particularities? So that you can come to the rational conclusion that I am one of the rare exceptions who applies it to anyone acting like a monkey. That's what the word literally is. Monkey. When someone is stupid you can call them stupid. The only difference is this word has historical baggage associated with racism. This entire argument started because the two were conflated. I can't speak absolutely for other people in this thread, but I wouldn't be surprised if the people who called them 'vermin' or 'thugs' did so because of their actions not because of their skin color. The criticism came that they were being targeted because of their skin color which I doubt was the case. Maybe I'm wrong, but I know from my perspective at least that it certainly wasn't the case.
How are you still not getting it that you shouldn't be calling black people monkeys, even if you think it's not coming from a racist place?
Do you think it's okay to call black people niggers as a derogatory term if you're not doing it because you're racist, just because you're looking down on those specific black people?
I mean we both know what's actually going on here but I'll play the game and pretend you really have no idea why what you did was wrong and that it needs to be explained to you.
|
To be fair xDaunt and Templar have used the word monkey in the past on TL to apply to non-black groups.
What's interesting is how quickly you can find statements from past years that are in opposition to present day Trump statements  .
|
On September 23 2016 06:49 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2016 06:48 xDaunt wrote:On September 23 2016 06:43 Nebuchad wrote:On September 23 2016 06:38 xDaunt wrote:On September 23 2016 06:19 Danglars wrote:On September 23 2016 06:06 xDaunt wrote:On September 23 2016 06:00 Nebuchad wrote:On September 23 2016 05:58 xDaunt wrote:On September 23 2016 05:55 Sermokala wrote:On September 23 2016 05:54 Rebs wrote:
[quote]
None of the liberals here brought up race. Your friend GG did. To be fair Plansix gets baited pretty easily and then it just rolled from there.
If you are going to accuse people of doing something get your facts in order. People brought up race instantly saying that he wanted to call the rioters monkeys but couldn't beacuse then people would know hes a racist what are you talking about. Yep. This situation is a good example of why I try to limit my interactions with people who fail at basic reading comprehension. It just isn't productive. You must be so proud of your trolling here. You used the term 'vermin' specifically so that there would be a flame war on it. That's kind of childish for a smart guy, but hey, whatever. What trolling? Who is going to disagree with the proposition that looters and rioters are vermin? I honestly don't give a fuck what race they are. I can't help it if you guys want to make the conversation about race instead of law and order. That's your prerogative, even if it means exposing some very ugly and unpleasant truths about some of your values. At this point, I don't think any more exposure is necessary. The cesspool of values is on bright display. Honestly, what I expected to catch some shit on was that there's a bit of a stink of advocating police brutality/excessive force in my original post. It didn't even occur to me that the rabid PC crowd would go all in on the bullshit "xDaunt is a racist" angle. I guess my expectations for this thread were a little high. We're going to go all out on your trolling. For the sake of logic, we are going to remember that "politically correct" isn't a logical argument against something. So instead of saying that we are pc, we are going to determine how we are illogical, or wrong. Make the argument against the position expressed in this thread, showing that it's incorrect, or irrational, as opposed to "politically correct". Go ahead. I'm not using "politically correct" as an argument. I'm using it as a label. And the labeling really has nothing to do with my arguments anyway -- all of which makes your appeal to logic amusing. Certain posters (yourself included) certainly haven't shown any hesitation in relentlessly misrepresenting my point, so don't let logic get in your way. So there's nothing wrong logically with our position?
Oh no, there very clearly is something logically wrong, which is why I mentioned your "relentless misrepresentation" of my point.
|
|
|
On September 23 2016 06:50 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2016 06:49 Nebuchad wrote:On September 23 2016 06:48 xDaunt wrote:On September 23 2016 06:43 Nebuchad wrote:On September 23 2016 06:38 xDaunt wrote:On September 23 2016 06:19 Danglars wrote:On September 23 2016 06:06 xDaunt wrote:On September 23 2016 06:00 Nebuchad wrote:On September 23 2016 05:58 xDaunt wrote:On September 23 2016 05:55 Sermokala wrote:
[quote]
People brought up race instantly saying that he wanted to call the rioters monkeys but couldn't beacuse then people would know hes a racist what are you talking about. Yep. This situation is a good example of why I try to limit my interactions with people who fail at basic reading comprehension. It just isn't productive. You must be so proud of your trolling here. You used the term 'vermin' specifically so that there would be a flame war on it. That's kind of childish for a smart guy, but hey, whatever. What trolling? Who is going to disagree with the proposition that looters and rioters are vermin? I honestly don't give a fuck what race they are. I can't help it if you guys want to make the conversation about race instead of law and order. That's your prerogative, even if it means exposing some very ugly and unpleasant truths about some of your values. At this point, I don't think any more exposure is necessary. The cesspool of values is on bright display. Honestly, what I expected to catch some shit on was that there's a bit of a stink of advocating police brutality/excessive force in my original post. It didn't even occur to me that the rabid PC crowd would go all in on the bullshit "xDaunt is a racist" angle. I guess my expectations for this thread were a little high. We're going to go all out on your trolling. For the sake of logic, we are going to remember that "politically correct" isn't a logical argument against something. So instead of saying that we are pc, we are going to determine how we are illogical, or wrong. Make the argument against the position expressed in this thread, showing that it's incorrect, or irrational, as opposed to "politically correct". Go ahead. I'm not using "politically correct" as an argument. I'm using it as a label. And the labeling really has nothing to do with my arguments anyway -- all of which makes your appeal to logic amusing. Certain posters (yourself included) certainly haven't shown any hesitation in relentlessly misrepresenting my point, so don't let logic get in your way. So there's nothing wrong logically with our position? Oh no, there very clearly is something logically wrong, which is why I mentioned your "relentless misrepresentation" of my point.
So can you please demonstrate it, as I asked you, instead of just labeling it pc?
|
On September 23 2016 06:50 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2016 06:49 Nebuchad wrote:On September 23 2016 06:48 xDaunt wrote:On September 23 2016 06:43 Nebuchad wrote:On September 23 2016 06:38 xDaunt wrote:On September 23 2016 06:19 Danglars wrote:On September 23 2016 06:06 xDaunt wrote:On September 23 2016 06:00 Nebuchad wrote:On September 23 2016 05:58 xDaunt wrote:On September 23 2016 05:55 Sermokala wrote:
[quote]
People brought up race instantly saying that he wanted to call the rioters monkeys but couldn't beacuse then people would know hes a racist what are you talking about. Yep. This situation is a good example of why I try to limit my interactions with people who fail at basic reading comprehension. It just isn't productive. You must be so proud of your trolling here. You used the term 'vermin' specifically so that there would be a flame war on it. That's kind of childish for a smart guy, but hey, whatever. What trolling? Who is going to disagree with the proposition that looters and rioters are vermin? I honestly don't give a fuck what race they are. I can't help it if you guys want to make the conversation about race instead of law and order. That's your prerogative, even if it means exposing some very ugly and unpleasant truths about some of your values. At this point, I don't think any more exposure is necessary. The cesspool of values is on bright display. Honestly, what I expected to catch some shit on was that there's a bit of a stink of advocating police brutality/excessive force in my original post. It didn't even occur to me that the rabid PC crowd would go all in on the bullshit "xDaunt is a racist" angle. I guess my expectations for this thread were a little high. We're going to go all out on your trolling. For the sake of logic, we are going to remember that "politically correct" isn't a logical argument against something. So instead of saying that we are pc, we are going to determine how we are illogical, or wrong. Make the argument against the position expressed in this thread, showing that it's incorrect, or irrational, as opposed to "politically correct". Go ahead. I'm not using "politically correct" as an argument. I'm using it as a label. And the labeling really has nothing to do with my arguments anyway -- all of which makes your appeal to logic amusing. Certain posters (yourself included) certainly haven't shown any hesitation in relentlessly misrepresenting my point, so don't let logic get in your way. So there's nothing wrong logically with our position? Oh no, there very clearly is something logically wrong, which is why I mentioned your "relentless misrepresentation" of my point.
drag the issue out long enough without directly addressing it, until the argument deflects to something else.
Classic Trumpism...
|
On September 23 2016 06:38 Barrin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2016 06:30 Danglars wrote:On September 23 2016 06:25 Barrin wrote:On September 23 2016 06:04 KwarK wrote:On September 23 2016 06:01 Rebs wrote:On September 23 2016 06:00 Nebuchad wrote:On September 23 2016 05:58 xDaunt wrote:On September 23 2016 05:55 Sermokala wrote:On September 23 2016 05:54 Rebs wrote:On September 23 2016 05:51 xDaunt wrote:
[quote]
This is what's so hilarious. It's the liberals who make everything about race. My comments have been completely race neutral, yet here we have the usual suspects trying to contort what I'm saying into a racist attack. This is why the PC left is so intellectually bankrupt and why the assault upon them by the alt right has been so successful and will continue to be so. None of the liberals here brought up race. Your friend GG did. To be fair Plansix gets baited pretty easily and then it just rolled from there. If you are going to accuse people of doing something get your facts in order. People brought up race instantly saying that he wanted to call the rioters monkeys but couldn't beacuse then people would know hes a racist what are you talking about. Yep. This situation is a good example of why I try to limit my interactions with people who fail at basic reading comprehension. It just isn't productive. You must be so proud of your trolling here. You used the term 'vermin' specifically so that there would be a flame war on it. That's kind of childish for a smart guy, but hey, whatever. Yeah at this point its not even subtle. Its just baiting and sitting quietly looking for a circle jerk to latch onto. On September 23 2016 06:01 Plansix wrote:On September 23 2016 05:59 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 23 2016 05:54 KwarK wrote:On September 23 2016 05:51 xDaunt wrote:On September 23 2016 05:43 oBlade wrote:
It's not blackness, it's the rioting, looting, assaults, and arson. If you want to make this about race it's somehow suggesting these are aspects of black identity, which is absurd. Surely you can argue how arsonists are people too without making it a racial issue. This is what's so hilarious. It's the liberals who make everything about race. My comments have been completely race neutral, yet here we have the usual suspects trying to contort what I'm saying into a racist attack. This is why the PC left is so intellectually bankrupt and why the assault upon them by the alt right has been so successful and will continue to be so. You said BLM are vermin. I don't know if you're unaware what the B in BLM stands for. Perhaps you were referring to the Bureau of Land Management. Actually, you know what, I'm done giving you the benefit of the doubt. You're a racist. Finally. Of all the things GH and I disagree one. This is our common ground. I'm just surprised it to everyone else so long to get here. Frankly i would still be giving him the benefit of the doubt because he didnt specifically say BLM. But I suppose at this point you can say you know what he meant,. No, he did specifically say it. "mayors where BLM is wreaking havoc needs to grow a pair and clear the vermin out." BLM were quite clearly the vermin being referred to there. Indeed. There is quite a difference between saying those people are "acting like" vermin and literally calling them vermin. I'd say that's all the difference when it comes to dehumanizing. And anyone complaining about safe spaces might want to re-read TL Commandment #1. So when Hillary chose a basket of deplorables instead of their actions, that was when you also decided it was dehumanizing when she said it. The difference for me is if you excuse one group for their politics. I would not exempt either. But I'm a little undecided and somewhat uninformed on this, but I think this "deplorables" term is something Trump & his supporters (half?) adopted for themselves*, a la "Les Miserables": a movie about the french revolution. *Trump played one of the songs from Les Miserables at one of his entrances recently. I don't really know.
Thank you for restoring some of my faith in humanity.
After her massive gaffe, people made tshirts with the slogan and it featured in some rallies. Think like Romney and the 47% or nixons enemies list.
|
On September 23 2016 06:48 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2016 06:46 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On September 23 2016 06:38 Nebuchad wrote:On September 23 2016 06:37 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On September 23 2016 06:36 ticklishmusic wrote:
Maybe we should have an experiment. GGTemplar can call a white guy on the street a monkey for "doing something dumb". Then he call a black person that and we can compare the results. Oh I don't go around calling people on the street monkey that is just retarded. On September 23 2016 06:37 Nebuchad wrote:On September 23 2016 06:36 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On September 23 2016 06:30 Slaughter wrote:
The problem is that terms like monkey is rarely applied to white people, even when they are doing bad things. So what about me? I've thought of more white people as 'fucking monkeys' thank blacks. You might be surprised to learn that the way people speak around the world isn't generally based on what you think. Nope not surprised at all. As I've said, I've come to learn I am very different than most people. So if you aren't surprised, why did you say "What about me?" as if it was surprising that the english language didn't stop to consider all of your particularities? So that you can come to the rational conclusion that I am one of the rare exceptions who applies it to anyone acting like a monkey. That's what the word literally is. Monkey. When someone is stupid you can call them stupid. The only difference is this word has historical baggage associated with racism. This entire argument started because the two were conflated. I can't speak absolutely for other people in this thread, but I wouldn't be surprised if the people who called them 'vermin' or 'thugs' did so because of their actions not because of their skin color. The criticism came that they were being targeted because of their skin color which I doubt was the case. Maybe I'm wrong, but I know from my perspective at least that it certainly wasn't the case. Your original argument was that we overreacted by calling you a racist when you used racist terms to describe black people. Now you're saying, we should have considered that you're a special snowflake who uses racist terms differently than the other people who are racists. In what you're saying now, there is no overreaction on our part. It is perfectly logical of us to assume that you're using terms in the same way that the rest of americans do.
I'm clearly not explaining myself correctly here and you are clearly living in a different reality of what the 'argument' was about.
My comments about being a special snowflake are trying to bring some humor into a situation I consider absurdly stupid. My remarks about being unique are irrelevant to my point. I just think it's funny how pseudointellectuals like to lump everyone who disagrees with them into this big 'basket of deplorables' and when you tell them you're different they literally feel the need to say "no you're just another racist idiot hillbilly"
My original argument was that people calling the criminals in that video 'thugs' or 'vermin' was not racially motivated but behaviorally motivated because they were acting like 'monkeys' so it wasn't wrong to call them 'monkeys'.
This was largely met with the counter-argument of being called a racist.
I think you're being the opposite of logical when you are strictly being told "they are vermin/thugs/monkeys because they are behaving like criminals, not because they are black", but then ignore that and say "No you're only doing it because they're black you racist" over and over.
|
On September 23 2016 06:50 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2016 06:49 Nebuchad wrote:On September 23 2016 06:48 xDaunt wrote:On September 23 2016 06:43 Nebuchad wrote:On September 23 2016 06:38 xDaunt wrote:On September 23 2016 06:19 Danglars wrote:On September 23 2016 06:06 xDaunt wrote:On September 23 2016 06:00 Nebuchad wrote:On September 23 2016 05:58 xDaunt wrote:On September 23 2016 05:55 Sermokala wrote:
[quote]
People brought up race instantly saying that he wanted to call the rioters monkeys but couldn't beacuse then people would know hes a racist what are you talking about. Yep. This situation is a good example of why I try to limit my interactions with people who fail at basic reading comprehension. It just isn't productive. You must be so proud of your trolling here. You used the term 'vermin' specifically so that there would be a flame war on it. That's kind of childish for a smart guy, but hey, whatever. What trolling? Who is going to disagree with the proposition that looters and rioters are vermin? I honestly don't give a fuck what race they are. I can't help it if you guys want to make the conversation about race instead of law and order. That's your prerogative, even if it means exposing some very ugly and unpleasant truths about some of your values. At this point, I don't think any more exposure is necessary. The cesspool of values is on bright display. Honestly, what I expected to catch some shit on was that there's a bit of a stink of advocating police brutality/excessive force in my original post. It didn't even occur to me that the rabid PC crowd would go all in on the bullshit "xDaunt is a racist" angle. I guess my expectations for this thread were a little high. We're going to go all out on your trolling. For the sake of logic, we are going to remember that "politically correct" isn't a logical argument against something. So instead of saying that we are pc, we are going to determine how we are illogical, or wrong. Make the argument against the position expressed in this thread, showing that it's incorrect, or irrational, as opposed to "politically correct". Go ahead. I'm not using "politically correct" as an argument. I'm using it as a label. And the labeling really has nothing to do with my arguments anyway -- all of which makes your appeal to logic amusing. Certain posters (yourself included) certainly haven't shown any hesitation in relentlessly misrepresenting my point, so don't let logic get in your way. So there's nothing wrong logically with our position? Oh no, there very clearly is something logically wrong, which is why I mentioned your "relentless calling out my attempts to obfuscate my racism through faux charges of intellectual dishonesty"
Fixed that for you, its wasn't clear enough.
Seriously, you've been dancing around this for months upon months now. People were going to stop giving you the benefit of the doubt at some point.
|
On September 23 2016 06:51 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2016 06:50 xDaunt wrote:On September 23 2016 06:49 Nebuchad wrote:On September 23 2016 06:48 xDaunt wrote:On September 23 2016 06:43 Nebuchad wrote:On September 23 2016 06:38 xDaunt wrote:On September 23 2016 06:19 Danglars wrote:On September 23 2016 06:06 xDaunt wrote:On September 23 2016 06:00 Nebuchad wrote:On September 23 2016 05:58 xDaunt wrote:
[quote]
Yep. This situation is a good example of why I try to limit my interactions with people who fail at basic reading comprehension. It just isn't productive. You must be so proud of your trolling here. You used the term 'vermin' specifically so that there would be a flame war on it. That's kind of childish for a smart guy, but hey, whatever. What trolling? Who is going to disagree with the proposition that looters and rioters are vermin? I honestly don't give a fuck what race they are. I can't help it if you guys want to make the conversation about race instead of law and order. That's your prerogative, even if it means exposing some very ugly and unpleasant truths about some of your values. At this point, I don't think any more exposure is necessary. The cesspool of values is on bright display. Honestly, what I expected to catch some shit on was that there's a bit of a stink of advocating police brutality/excessive force in my original post. It didn't even occur to me that the rabid PC crowd would go all in on the bullshit "xDaunt is a racist" angle. I guess my expectations for this thread were a little high. We're going to go all out on your trolling. For the sake of logic, we are going to remember that "politically correct" isn't a logical argument against something. So instead of saying that we are pc, we are going to determine how we are illogical, or wrong. Make the argument against the position expressed in this thread, showing that it's incorrect, or irrational, as opposed to "politically correct". Go ahead. I'm not using "politically correct" as an argument. I'm using it as a label. And the labeling really has nothing to do with my arguments anyway -- all of which makes your appeal to logic amusing. Certain posters (yourself included) certainly haven't shown any hesitation in relentlessly misrepresenting my point, so don't let logic get in your way. So there's nothing wrong logically with our position? Oh no, there very clearly is something logically wrong, which is why I mentioned your "relentless misrepresentation" of my point. So can you please demonstrate it, as I asked you, instead of just labeling it pc?
I already have, as have others. All of my statements were racially neutral, yet they have been repeatedly impugned (and I have personally been impugned) as being racist. And the only way to get to "what xDaunt said is racist" is to add content to my statements that aren't there. That is what we call a misrepresentation.
|
On September 23 2016 06:53 GGTeMpLaR wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2016 06:48 Nebuchad wrote:On September 23 2016 06:46 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On September 23 2016 06:38 Nebuchad wrote:On September 23 2016 06:37 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On September 23 2016 06:36 ticklishmusic wrote:
Maybe we should have an experiment. GGTemplar can call a white guy on the street a monkey for "doing something dumb". Then he call a black person that and we can compare the results. Oh I don't go around calling people on the street monkey that is just retarded. On September 23 2016 06:37 Nebuchad wrote:On September 23 2016 06:36 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On September 23 2016 06:30 Slaughter wrote:
The problem is that terms like monkey is rarely applied to white people, even when they are doing bad things. So what about me? I've thought of more white people as 'fucking monkeys' thank blacks. You might be surprised to learn that the way people speak around the world isn't generally based on what you think. Nope not surprised at all. As I've said, I've come to learn I am very different than most people. So if you aren't surprised, why did you say "What about me?" as if it was surprising that the english language didn't stop to consider all of your particularities? So that you can come to the rational conclusion that I am one of the rare exceptions who applies it to anyone acting like a monkey. That's what the word literally is. Monkey. When someone is stupid you can call them stupid. The only difference is this word has historical baggage associated with racism. This entire argument started because the two were conflated. I can't speak absolutely for other people in this thread, but I wouldn't be surprised if the people who called them 'vermin' or 'thugs' did so because of their actions not because of their skin color. The criticism came that they were being targeted because of their skin color which I doubt was the case. Maybe I'm wrong, but I know from my perspective at least that it certainly wasn't the case. Your original argument was that we overreacted by calling you a racist when you used racist terms to describe black people. Now you're saying, we should have considered that you're a special snowflake who uses racist terms differently than the other people who are racists. In what you're saying now, there is no overreaction on our part. It is perfectly logical of us to assume that you're using terms in the same way that the rest of americans do. I'm clearly not explaining myself correctly here and you are clearly living in a different reality of what the 'argument' was about. My comments about being a special snowflake are trying to bring some humor into a situation I consider absurdly stupid. My original argument was that people calling the criminals in that video 'thugs' or 'vermin' was not racially motivated but behaviorally motivated because they were acting like 'monkeys' so it wasn't wrong to call them 'monkeys'. This was largely met with the counter-argument of being called a racist. I think you're being the opposite of logical when you are strictly being told "they are vermin/thugs/monkeys because they are behaving like criminals, not because they are black", but then ignore that and say "No you're only doing it because they're black you racist" over and over.
Actually your original argument was about the fact that the thread calls out racism everytime black people get hurt/killed
and no one has a problem with white people being attacked. Which again is not true.
Then you kinda dug yourself into this hole.
On September 23 2016 06:55 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2016 06:51 Nebuchad wrote:On September 23 2016 06:50 xDaunt wrote:On September 23 2016 06:49 Nebuchad wrote:On September 23 2016 06:48 xDaunt wrote:On September 23 2016 06:43 Nebuchad wrote:On September 23 2016 06:38 xDaunt wrote:On September 23 2016 06:19 Danglars wrote:On September 23 2016 06:06 xDaunt wrote:On September 23 2016 06:00 Nebuchad wrote:
[quote]
You must be so proud of your trolling here. You used the term 'vermin' specifically so that there would be a flame war on it. That's kind of childish for a smart guy, but hey, whatever. What trolling? Who is going to disagree with the proposition that looters and rioters are vermin? I honestly don't give a fuck what race they are. I can't help it if you guys want to make the conversation about race instead of law and order. That's your prerogative, even if it means exposing some very ugly and unpleasant truths about some of your values. At this point, I don't think any more exposure is necessary. The cesspool of values is on bright display. Honestly, what I expected to catch some shit on was that there's a bit of a stink of advocating police brutality/excessive force in my original post. It didn't even occur to me that the rabid PC crowd would go all in on the bullshit "xDaunt is a racist" angle. I guess my expectations for this thread were a little high. We're going to go all out on your trolling. For the sake of logic, we are going to remember that "politically correct" isn't a logical argument against something. So instead of saying that we are pc, we are going to determine how we are illogical, or wrong. Make the argument against the position expressed in this thread, showing that it's incorrect, or irrational, as opposed to "politically correct". Go ahead. I'm not using "politically correct" as an argument. I'm using it as a label. And the labeling really has nothing to do with my arguments anyway -- all of which makes your appeal to logic amusing. Certain posters (yourself included) certainly haven't shown any hesitation in relentlessly misrepresenting my point, so don't let logic get in your way. So there's nothing wrong logically with our position? Oh no, there very clearly is something logically wrong, which is why I mentioned your "relentless misrepresentation" of my point. So can you please demonstrate it, as I asked you, instead of just labeling it pc? I already have, as have others. All of my statements were racially neutral, yet they have been repeatedly impugned (and I have personally been impugned) as being racist. And the only way to get to "what xDaunt said is racist" is to add content to my statements that aren't there. That is what we call a misrepresentation.
I tried to defend you on that, but frankly if you are going to call BLM specifically vermin you leave yourself open to someone reasonably expecting that you are dehumanizing BLM. Since there isnt much record of you calling anyone else vermin.
But hey, dont listen to me I have problems with reading comprehension.
|
On September 23 2016 06:53 GGTeMpLaR wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2016 06:48 Nebuchad wrote:On September 23 2016 06:46 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On September 23 2016 06:38 Nebuchad wrote:On September 23 2016 06:37 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On September 23 2016 06:36 ticklishmusic wrote:
Maybe we should have an experiment. GGTemplar can call a white guy on the street a monkey for "doing something dumb". Then he call a black person that and we can compare the results. Oh I don't go around calling people on the street monkey that is just retarded. On September 23 2016 06:37 Nebuchad wrote:On September 23 2016 06:36 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On September 23 2016 06:30 Slaughter wrote:
The problem is that terms like monkey is rarely applied to white people, even when they are doing bad things. So what about me? I've thought of more white people as 'fucking monkeys' thank blacks. You might be surprised to learn that the way people speak around the world isn't generally based on what you think. Nope not surprised at all. As I've said, I've come to learn I am very different than most people. So if you aren't surprised, why did you say "What about me?" as if it was surprising that the english language didn't stop to consider all of your particularities? So that you can come to the rational conclusion that I am one of the rare exceptions who applies it to anyone acting like a monkey. That's what the word literally is. Monkey. When someone is stupid you can call them stupid. The only difference is this word has historical baggage associated with racism. This entire argument started because the two were conflated. I can't speak absolutely for other people in this thread, but I wouldn't be surprised if the people who called them 'vermin' or 'thugs' did so because of their actions not because of their skin color. The criticism came that they were being targeted because of their skin color which I doubt was the case. Maybe I'm wrong, but I know from my perspective at least that it certainly wasn't the case. Your original argument was that we overreacted by calling you a racist when you used racist terms to describe black people. Now you're saying, we should have considered that you're a special snowflake who uses racist terms differently than the other people who are racists. In what you're saying now, there is no overreaction on our part. It is perfectly logical of us to assume that you're using terms in the same way that the rest of americans do. I'm clearly not explaining myself correctly here and you are clearly living in a different reality of what the 'argument' was about. My comments about being a special snowflake are trying to bring some humor into a situation I consider absurdly stupid. My original argument was that people calling the criminals in that video 'thugs' or 'vermin' was not racially motivated but behaviorally motivated because they were acting like 'monkeys' so it wasn't wrong to call them 'monkeys'. This was largely met with the counter-argument of being called a racist. I think you're being the opposite of logical when you are strictly being told "they are vermin/thugs/monkeys because they are behaving like criminals, not because they are black", but then ignore that and say "No you're only doing it because they're black you racist" over and over.
You pretend I misunderstand you, and your explanation clearly shows that I didn't.
Your original argument was that we overreacted by calling you a racist when you used racist terms (monkeys) to describe black people. Now you're saying, we should have considered that you're a special snowflake who uses racist terms differently ("they are vermin/thugs/monkeys because they are behaving like criminals, not because they are black") than the other people who are racists.
You could call them niggers and then say that you do it because they behave like criminals, not because they are black. You could even believe that it is very true. Wouldn't change how you would be perceived, or how you should expect to be perceived.
|
United States44373 Posts
On September 23 2016 06:55 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2016 06:51 Nebuchad wrote:On September 23 2016 06:50 xDaunt wrote:On September 23 2016 06:49 Nebuchad wrote:On September 23 2016 06:48 xDaunt wrote:On September 23 2016 06:43 Nebuchad wrote:On September 23 2016 06:38 xDaunt wrote:On September 23 2016 06:19 Danglars wrote:On September 23 2016 06:06 xDaunt wrote:On September 23 2016 06:00 Nebuchad wrote:
[quote]
You must be so proud of your trolling here. You used the term 'vermin' specifically so that there would be a flame war on it. That's kind of childish for a smart guy, but hey, whatever. What trolling? Who is going to disagree with the proposition that looters and rioters are vermin? I honestly don't give a fuck what race they are. I can't help it if you guys want to make the conversation about race instead of law and order. That's your prerogative, even if it means exposing some very ugly and unpleasant truths about some of your values. At this point, I don't think any more exposure is necessary. The cesspool of values is on bright display. Honestly, what I expected to catch some shit on was that there's a bit of a stink of advocating police brutality/excessive force in my original post. It didn't even occur to me that the rabid PC crowd would go all in on the bullshit "xDaunt is a racist" angle. I guess my expectations for this thread were a little high. We're going to go all out on your trolling. For the sake of logic, we are going to remember that "politically correct" isn't a logical argument against something. So instead of saying that we are pc, we are going to determine how we are illogical, or wrong. Make the argument against the position expressed in this thread, showing that it's incorrect, or irrational, as opposed to "politically correct". Go ahead. I'm not using "politically correct" as an argument. I'm using it as a label. And the labeling really has nothing to do with my arguments anyway -- all of which makes your appeal to logic amusing. Certain posters (yourself included) certainly haven't shown any hesitation in relentlessly misrepresenting my point, so don't let logic get in your way. So there's nothing wrong logically with our position? Oh no, there very clearly is something logically wrong, which is why I mentioned your "relentless misrepresentation" of my point. So can you please demonstrate it, as I asked you, instead of just labeling it pc? I already have, as have others. All of my statements were racially neutral, yet they have been repeatedly impugned (and I have personally been impugned) as being racist. And the only way to get to "what xDaunt said is racist" is to add content to my statements that aren't there. That is what we call a misrepresentation.
If you want people to stop calling you a racist maybe ease up on the racist rhetoric. Just an idea. It's the same as when GGTemplar is burning crosses on the lawns of a black family and cries out "no, actually I burn crosses on the lawns of white and black people all the time, you can't infer anything from this".
If you're upset about people thinking you're a racist perhaps stop using the word vermin to describe black people. Of course we all already think you're a racist but maybe when you're meeting new people you could try and hide it.
|
|
|
On September 23 2016 06:58 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2016 06:55 xDaunt wrote:On September 23 2016 06:51 Nebuchad wrote:On September 23 2016 06:50 xDaunt wrote:On September 23 2016 06:49 Nebuchad wrote:On September 23 2016 06:48 xDaunt wrote:On September 23 2016 06:43 Nebuchad wrote:On September 23 2016 06:38 xDaunt wrote:On September 23 2016 06:19 Danglars wrote:On September 23 2016 06:06 xDaunt wrote:
[quote]
What trolling? Who is going to disagree with the proposition that looters and rioters are vermin? I honestly don't give a fuck what race they are. I can't help it if you guys want to make the conversation about race instead of law and order. That's your prerogative, even if it means exposing some very ugly and unpleasant truths about some of your values. At this point, I don't think any more exposure is necessary. The cesspool of values is on bright display. Honestly, what I expected to catch some shit on was that there's a bit of a stink of advocating police brutality/excessive force in my original post. It didn't even occur to me that the rabid PC crowd would go all in on the bullshit "xDaunt is a racist" angle. I guess my expectations for this thread were a little high. We're going to go all out on your trolling. For the sake of logic, we are going to remember that "politically correct" isn't a logical argument against something. So instead of saying that we are pc, we are going to determine how we are illogical, or wrong. Make the argument against the position expressed in this thread, showing that it's incorrect, or irrational, as opposed to "politically correct". Go ahead. I'm not using "politically correct" as an argument. I'm using it as a label. And the labeling really has nothing to do with my arguments anyway -- all of which makes your appeal to logic amusing. Certain posters (yourself included) certainly haven't shown any hesitation in relentlessly misrepresenting my point, so don't let logic get in your way. So there's nothing wrong logically with our position? Oh no, there very clearly is something logically wrong, which is why I mentioned your "relentless misrepresentation" of my point. So can you please demonstrate it, as I asked you, instead of just labeling it pc? I already have, as have others. All of my statements were racially neutral, yet they have been repeatedly impugned (and I have personally been impugned) as being racist. And the only way to get to "what xDaunt said is racist" is to add content to my statements that aren't there. That is what we call a misrepresentation. If you want people to stop calling you a racist maybe ease up on the racist rhetoric. Just an idea. It's the same as when GGTemplar is burning crosses on the lawns of a black family and cries out "no, actually I burn crosses on the lawns of white and black people all the time, you can't infer anything from this". If you're upset about people thinking you're a racist perhaps stop using the word vermin to describe black people. Of course we all already think you're a racist but maybe when you're meeting new people you could try and hide it.
I'm not upset at all that various posters call me racist. It lets me know that I've won.
|
On September 23 2016 06:55 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2016 06:51 Nebuchad wrote:On September 23 2016 06:50 xDaunt wrote:On September 23 2016 06:49 Nebuchad wrote:On September 23 2016 06:48 xDaunt wrote:On September 23 2016 06:43 Nebuchad wrote:On September 23 2016 06:38 xDaunt wrote:On September 23 2016 06:19 Danglars wrote:On September 23 2016 06:06 xDaunt wrote:On September 23 2016 06:00 Nebuchad wrote:
[quote]
You must be so proud of your trolling here. You used the term 'vermin' specifically so that there would be a flame war on it. That's kind of childish for a smart guy, but hey, whatever. What trolling? Who is going to disagree with the proposition that looters and rioters are vermin? I honestly don't give a fuck what race they are. I can't help it if you guys want to make the conversation about race instead of law and order. That's your prerogative, even if it means exposing some very ugly and unpleasant truths about some of your values. At this point, I don't think any more exposure is necessary. The cesspool of values is on bright display. Honestly, what I expected to catch some shit on was that there's a bit of a stink of advocating police brutality/excessive force in my original post. It didn't even occur to me that the rabid PC crowd would go all in on the bullshit "xDaunt is a racist" angle. I guess my expectations for this thread were a little high. We're going to go all out on your trolling. For the sake of logic, we are going to remember that "politically correct" isn't a logical argument against something. So instead of saying that we are pc, we are going to determine how we are illogical, or wrong. Make the argument against the position expressed in this thread, showing that it's incorrect, or irrational, as opposed to "politically correct". Go ahead. I'm not using "politically correct" as an argument. I'm using it as a label. And the labeling really has nothing to do with my arguments anyway -- all of which makes your appeal to logic amusing. Certain posters (yourself included) certainly haven't shown any hesitation in relentlessly misrepresenting my point, so don't let logic get in your way. So there's nothing wrong logically with our position? Oh no, there very clearly is something logically wrong, which is why I mentioned your "relentless misrepresentation" of my point. So can you please demonstrate it, as I asked you, instead of just labeling it pc? I already have, as have others. All of my statements were racially neutral, yet they have been repeatedly impugned (and I have personally been impugned) as being racist. And the only way to get to "what xDaunt said is racist" is to add content to my statements that aren't there. That is what we call a misrepresentation.
Mmm or we can just say that you worded your posts in a way that gives you plausible deniability while also baiting criticism in. You know how people in this thread would react. You baited them in while giving yourself wiggle room to argue about it.
|
idk maybe the US is different but vermin seems an equal-opportunity insult to me.
"Monkey" is not, but that was GG.
|
On September 23 2016 07:02 Barrin wrote:
GGTemplar was not actually being racist, but maybe he should think about using different terminology.
Everyone else should really just take him at his word when he insists he uses such terminology for anyone's behavior.
That's not really how it works though.
When I was young, I used the french word "crouille" to refer to things that are in poor shape or barely working. I had no idea that it was a derogatory term used to refer to arab people.
Then I learned it was, and I stopped using the term in the way I used it. I didn't go, "Yeah, but I'm using it differently so it's okay, I get to continue and not be a racist".
|
On September 23 2016 06:56 Rebs wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2016 06:53 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On September 23 2016 06:48 Nebuchad wrote:On September 23 2016 06:46 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On September 23 2016 06:38 Nebuchad wrote:On September 23 2016 06:37 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On September 23 2016 06:36 ticklishmusic wrote:
Maybe we should have an experiment. GGTemplar can call a white guy on the street a monkey for "doing something dumb". Then he call a black person that and we can compare the results. Oh I don't go around calling people on the street monkey that is just retarded. On September 23 2016 06:37 Nebuchad wrote:On September 23 2016 06:36 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On September 23 2016 06:30 Slaughter wrote:
The problem is that terms like monkey is rarely applied to white people, even when they are doing bad things. So what about me? I've thought of more white people as 'fucking monkeys' thank blacks. You might be surprised to learn that the way people speak around the world isn't generally based on what you think. Nope not surprised at all. As I've said, I've come to learn I am very different than most people. So if you aren't surprised, why did you say "What about me?" as if it was surprising that the english language didn't stop to consider all of your particularities? So that you can come to the rational conclusion that I am one of the rare exceptions who applies it to anyone acting like a monkey. That's what the word literally is. Monkey. When someone is stupid you can call them stupid. The only difference is this word has historical baggage associated with racism. This entire argument started because the two were conflated. I can't speak absolutely for other people in this thread, but I wouldn't be surprised if the people who called them 'vermin' or 'thugs' did so because of their actions not because of their skin color. The criticism came that they were being targeted because of their skin color which I doubt was the case. Maybe I'm wrong, but I know from my perspective at least that it certainly wasn't the case. Your original argument was that we overreacted by calling you a racist when you used racist terms to describe black people. Now you're saying, we should have considered that you're a special snowflake who uses racist terms differently than the other people who are racists. In what you're saying now, there is no overreaction on our part. It is perfectly logical of us to assume that you're using terms in the same way that the rest of americans do. I'm clearly not explaining myself correctly here and you are clearly living in a different reality of what the 'argument' was about. My comments about being a special snowflake are trying to bring some humor into a situation I consider absurdly stupid. My original argument was that people calling the criminals in that video 'thugs' or 'vermin' was not racially motivated but behaviorally motivated because they were acting like 'monkeys' so it wasn't wrong to call them 'monkeys'. This was largely met with the counter-argument of being called a racist. I think you're being the opposite of logical when you are strictly being told "they are vermin/thugs/monkeys because they are behaving like criminals, not because they are black", but then ignore that and say "No you're only doing it because they're black you racist" over and over. Actually your original argument was about the fact that the thread calls out racism everytime black people get hurt/killed and no one has a problem with white people being attacked. Which again is not true. Show nested quote +On September 23 2016 06:55 xDaunt wrote:On September 23 2016 06:51 Nebuchad wrote:On September 23 2016 06:50 xDaunt wrote:On September 23 2016 06:49 Nebuchad wrote:On September 23 2016 06:48 xDaunt wrote:On September 23 2016 06:43 Nebuchad wrote:On September 23 2016 06:38 xDaunt wrote:On September 23 2016 06:19 Danglars wrote:On September 23 2016 06:06 xDaunt wrote:
[quote]
What trolling? Who is going to disagree with the proposition that looters and rioters are vermin? I honestly don't give a fuck what race they are. I can't help it if you guys want to make the conversation about race instead of law and order. That's your prerogative, even if it means exposing some very ugly and unpleasant truths about some of your values. At this point, I don't think any more exposure is necessary. The cesspool of values is on bright display. Honestly, what I expected to catch some shit on was that there's a bit of a stink of advocating police brutality/excessive force in my original post. It didn't even occur to me that the rabid PC crowd would go all in on the bullshit "xDaunt is a racist" angle. I guess my expectations for this thread were a little high. We're going to go all out on your trolling. For the sake of logic, we are going to remember that "politically correct" isn't a logical argument against something. So instead of saying that we are pc, we are going to determine how we are illogical, or wrong. Make the argument against the position expressed in this thread, showing that it's incorrect, or irrational, as opposed to "politically correct". Go ahead. I'm not using "politically correct" as an argument. I'm using it as a label. And the labeling really has nothing to do with my arguments anyway -- all of which makes your appeal to logic amusing. Certain posters (yourself included) certainly haven't shown any hesitation in relentlessly misrepresenting my point, so don't let logic get in your way. So there's nothing wrong logically with our position? Oh no, there very clearly is something logically wrong, which is why I mentioned your "relentless misrepresentation" of my point. So can you please demonstrate it, as I asked you, instead of just labeling it pc? I already have, as have others. All of my statements were racially neutral, yet they have been repeatedly impugned (and I have personally been impugned) as being racist. And the only way to get to "what xDaunt said is racist" is to add content to my statements that aren't there. That is what we call a misrepresentation. I tried to defend you on that, but frankly if you are going to call BLM specifically vermin you leave yourself open to someone reasonably expecting that you are dehumanizing BLM. Since there isnt much record of you calling anyone else vermin. But hey, dont listen to me I have problems with reading comprehension.
I mean we just had a 10 page argument because you all got offended over violent criminals being called 'vermin' and 'thugs' because it is 'dehumanizing' or whatever bullshit you tried to initially rationalize it with.
So yea, it wasn't "the fact that the thread calls out racism everytime black people get hurt/killed"
I made a remark about how people were completely okay with Clinton insulting people with name-calling but not okay with name-calling against violent criminals who just acted like animals were just being hypocritical
The counter to this was the bullshit idea of 'there's a difference between humanizing insults and dehumanizing insults! You are racist.'
Honestly I thought for once zfelin's single post was going to be the only remark on the video and it would be entirely acceptable. A few people wanted to remark at how these violent criminals were acting disgustingly though and apparently that isn't allowed.
In march the censorship brigade! How dare you dehumanize a violent criminal on our forums by calling them vermin!
|
|
|
|
|
|
24918
2405
87
EPT
