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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On September 20 2016 07:05 Nevuk wrote:
The vagueness of that statement is kind of hilarious. Is there even any reason why that guy couldn't face the death penalty? I thought it was still allowed on the federal level and that terrorism is considered a federal crime. Is Trump claiming that the US once had punishments worse than death?
I have no idea. He seems to think we should throw wounded terrorist in a dirty cell filled with cat peer and give them the worst medical treatment possible. Or something. It classic Trump, just imply the shitty thing and let the crowds imagination flow from there.
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On September 20 2016 07:10 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2016 07:05 Mohdoo wrote:On September 20 2016 07:00 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 06:56 Plansix wrote:
Trump, what a guy. Saying it's sad we are not horrible monsters like the terrorist. That we treat wounded people and give them trials. That is it sad we don't punish them like we used to. You know what he means. The good old days.
Disgusting. The man bemoans the Constitution that prohibits cruel and unusual a punishment. 61% of the US population supports the death penalty (at least in principle). Obviously it's fairly prohibitive in terms of cost. When the average American doesn't even have a 4 year degree, citing consensus as a justification for morality doesn't make much sense. Support of an idea being widespread does not make it morally justifiable. Consider the percentage of Egypt that supports various forms of barbarism that we scoff at. Sure, our country is significantly more educated, cultured and whatnot, but it is still an example of widespread support for complete horseshit. I know I don't need to bring up the typical example of slavery. On September 20 2016 07:05 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 07:03 Dan HH wrote:On September 20 2016 07:00 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 06:56 Plansix wrote:https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/777971370567331840Trump, what a guy. Saying it's sad we are not horrible monsters like the terrorist. That we treat wounded people and give them trials. That is it sad we don't punish them like we used to. You know what he means. The good old days. Disgusting. The man bemoans the Constitution that prohibits cruel and unusual a punishment. 61% of the US population supports the death penalty (at least in principle). Obviously it's fairly prohibitive in terms of cost. What is wrong with you calling 60% of the population disgusting? Maybe you should start to realize a sizeable majority of the US just straight up don't agree with you, so maybe you should change your outlook on the world and that it doesn't revolve around you instead of shitting on everyone? http://www.gallup.com/poll/186218/solid-majority-continue-support-death-penalty.aspx This is literally an appeal to majority, as in the classic error of judgement. If 60% of x country support stoning adulterers, you would defend that I assume? No, but in the same sense I wont go call 25% of the US population deplorable, or call 60% of the population disgusting. That is not how you achieve unity. Seriously, I come to this thread frequently enough, and Plansix is such an awful shit poster who just tries to demonize everyone who doesn't agree with him. It's a very uninviting environment to have a conversation in. This is a discussion board, not the UN. No one is going for "unity" here. This is a place of philosophical/ethical/political discourse, not bringing people together around a common goal. Alright, I've gotten a bit worked up, because some people have had really bad arguments for the last hour or two, so I apologize if I'm being a bit rude or harsh. That said, I completely disagree with you on anything to do with 4 year degrees here. Capital punishment is a question of morality and philosophy, that is not something that anyone should have a bigger voice on than someone else for, regardless of how much more educated and how much more money they have. Dealing with foreign relations, sure, let the experts do that, dealing with deciding whether the Death Penalty is just? No.
Do you know what Habeas Corpus is?
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On September 20 2016 07:05 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2016 07:03 Dan HH wrote:On September 20 2016 07:00 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 06:56 Plansix wrote:https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/777971370567331840Drumpf, what a guy. Saying it's sad we are not horrible monsters like the terrorist. That we treat wounded people and give them trials. That is it sad we don't punish them like we used to. You know what he means. The good old days. Disgusting. The man bemoans the Constitution that prohibits cruel and unusual a punishment. 61% of the US population supports the death penalty (at least in principle). Obviously it's fairly prohibitive in terms of cost. What is wrong with you calling 60% of the population disgusting? Maybe you should start to realize a sizeable majority of the US just straight up don't agree with you, so maybe you should change your outlook on the world and that it doesn't revolve around you instead of shitting on everyone? http://www.gallup.com/poll/186218/solid-majority-continue-support-death-penalty.aspx This is literally an appeal to majority, as in the classic error of judgement. If 60% of x country support stoning adulterers, you would defend that I assume? No, but in the same sense I wont go call 25% of the US population deplorable, or call 60% of the population disgusting. That is not how you achieve unity. Seriously, I come to this thread frequently enough, and Plansix is such an awful shit poster who just tries to demonize everyone who doesn't agree with him. It's a very uninviting environment to have a conversation in. Him not being banned from this thread truly boggles my mind, surely if he used his arguments to support the candidate who is less liked on TL (Drumpf), he would have not been here for quite some time.
While I dont agree with Plansix repeating himself over and over again about things everyone knows him calling you out on an appeal to majority (which is a really bad argument) and your reaction are completely disproportionate.
I dont see the need to get personal. If you are going to stick to the idea that an appeal to majority is a good argument then you are opening up to being in agreement and things being ok for alot distasteful things around the world.
Im sure you think are not that kind of person. Or maybe you are and are ok with it.
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On September 20 2016 07:11 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2016 07:10 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 07:05 Mohdoo wrote:On September 20 2016 07:00 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 06:56 Plansix wrote:https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/777971370567331840Trump, what a guy. Saying it's sad we are not horrible monsters like the terrorist. That we treat wounded people and give them trials. That is it sad we don't punish them like we used to. You know what he means. The good old days. Disgusting. The man bemoans the Constitution that prohibits cruel and unusual a punishment. 61% of the US population supports the death penalty (at least in principle). Obviously it's fairly prohibitive in terms of cost. When the average American doesn't even have a 4 year degree, citing consensus as a justification for morality doesn't make much sense. Support of an idea being widespread does not make it morally justifiable. Consider the percentage of Egypt that supports various forms of barbarism that we scoff at. Sure, our country is significantly more educated, cultured and whatnot, but it is still an example of widespread support for complete horseshit. I know I don't need to bring up the typical example of slavery. On September 20 2016 07:05 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 07:03 Dan HH wrote:On September 20 2016 07:00 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 06:56 Plansix wrote:https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/777971370567331840Trump, what a guy. Saying it's sad we are not horrible monsters like the terrorist. That we treat wounded people and give them trials. That is it sad we don't punish them like we used to. You know what he means. The good old days. Disgusting. The man bemoans the Constitution that prohibits cruel and unusual a punishment. 61% of the US population supports the death penalty (at least in principle). Obviously it's fairly prohibitive in terms of cost. What is wrong with you calling 60% of the population disgusting? Maybe you should start to realize a sizeable majority of the US just straight up don't agree with you, so maybe you should change your outlook on the world and that it doesn't revolve around you instead of shitting on everyone? http://www.gallup.com/poll/186218/solid-majority-continue-support-death-penalty.aspx This is literally an appeal to majority, as in the classic error of judgement. If 60% of x country support stoning adulterers, you would defend that I assume? No, but in the same sense I wont go call 25% of the US population deplorable, or call 60% of the population disgusting. That is not how you achieve unity. Seriously, I come to this thread frequently enough, and Plansix is such an awful shit poster who just tries to demonize everyone who doesn't agree with him. It's a very uninviting environment to have a conversation in. This is a discussion board, not the UN. No one is going for "unity" here. This is a place of philosophical/ethical/political discourse, not bringing people together around a common goal. Alright, I've gotten a bit worked up, because some people have had really bad arguments for the last hour or two, so I apologize if I'm being a bit rude or harsh. That said, I completely disagree with you on anything to do with 4 year degrees here. Capital punishment is a question of morality and philosophy, that is not something that anyone should have a bigger voice on than someone else for, regardless of how much more educated and how much more money they have. Dealing with foreign relations, sure, let the experts do that, dealing with deciding whether the Death Penalty is just? No. Do you know what Habeas Corpus is?
And habeas corpus is relevant here because.....?
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United States43803 Posts
On September 20 2016 07:13 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2016 07:11 farvacola wrote:On September 20 2016 07:10 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 07:05 Mohdoo wrote:On September 20 2016 07:00 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 06:56 Plansix wrote:https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/777971370567331840Trump, what a guy. Saying it's sad we are not horrible monsters like the terrorist. That we treat wounded people and give them trials. That is it sad we don't punish them like we used to. You know what he means. The good old days. Disgusting. The man bemoans the Constitution that prohibits cruel and unusual a punishment. 61% of the US population supports the death penalty (at least in principle). Obviously it's fairly prohibitive in terms of cost. When the average American doesn't even have a 4 year degree, citing consensus as a justification for morality doesn't make much sense. Support of an idea being widespread does not make it morally justifiable. Consider the percentage of Egypt that supports various forms of barbarism that we scoff at. Sure, our country is significantly more educated, cultured and whatnot, but it is still an example of widespread support for complete horseshit. I know I don't need to bring up the typical example of slavery. On September 20 2016 07:05 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 07:03 Dan HH wrote:On September 20 2016 07:00 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 06:56 Plansix wrote:https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/777971370567331840Trump, what a guy. Saying it's sad we are not horrible monsters like the terrorist. That we treat wounded people and give them trials. That is it sad we don't punish them like we used to. You know what he means. The good old days. Disgusting. The man bemoans the Constitution that prohibits cruel and unusual a punishment. 61% of the US population supports the death penalty (at least in principle). Obviously it's fairly prohibitive in terms of cost. What is wrong with you calling 60% of the population disgusting? Maybe you should start to realize a sizeable majority of the US just straight up don't agree with you, so maybe you should change your outlook on the world and that it doesn't revolve around you instead of shitting on everyone? http://www.gallup.com/poll/186218/solid-majority-continue-support-death-penalty.aspx This is literally an appeal to majority, as in the classic error of judgement. If 60% of x country support stoning adulterers, you would defend that I assume? No, but in the same sense I wont go call 25% of the US population deplorable, or call 60% of the population disgusting. That is not how you achieve unity. Seriously, I come to this thread frequently enough, and Plansix is such an awful shit poster who just tries to demonize everyone who doesn't agree with him. It's a very uninviting environment to have a conversation in. This is a discussion board, not the UN. No one is going for "unity" here. This is a place of philosophical/ethical/political discourse, not bringing people together around a common goal. Alright, I've gotten a bit worked up, because some people have had really bad arguments for the last hour or two, so I apologize if I'm being a bit rude or harsh. That said, I completely disagree with you on anything to do with 4 year degrees here. Capital punishment is a question of morality and philosophy, that is not something that anyone should have a bigger voice on than someone else for, regardless of how much more educated and how much more money they have. Dealing with foreign relations, sure, let the experts do that, dealing with deciding whether the Death Penalty is just? No. Do you know what Habeas Corpus is? And habeas corpus is relevant here because.....?
You missed the part where Trump complained that the guy would get a lawyer? Or, for that matter, called for a harsh punishment of someone not yet convicted. Where the hell are we going to find a fair jury for this guy?
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On September 20 2016 07:13 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2016 07:11 farvacola wrote:On September 20 2016 07:10 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 07:05 Mohdoo wrote:On September 20 2016 07:00 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 06:56 Plansix wrote:https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/777971370567331840Trump, what a guy. Saying it's sad we are not horrible monsters like the terrorist. That we treat wounded people and give them trials. That is it sad we don't punish them like we used to. You know what he means. The good old days. Disgusting. The man bemoans the Constitution that prohibits cruel and unusual a punishment. 61% of the US population supports the death penalty (at least in principle). Obviously it's fairly prohibitive in terms of cost. When the average American doesn't even have a 4 year degree, citing consensus as a justification for morality doesn't make much sense. Support of an idea being widespread does not make it morally justifiable. Consider the percentage of Egypt that supports various forms of barbarism that we scoff at. Sure, our country is significantly more educated, cultured and whatnot, but it is still an example of widespread support for complete horseshit. I know I don't need to bring up the typical example of slavery. On September 20 2016 07:05 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 07:03 Dan HH wrote:On September 20 2016 07:00 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 06:56 Plansix wrote:https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/777971370567331840Trump, what a guy. Saying it's sad we are not horrible monsters like the terrorist. That we treat wounded people and give them trials. That is it sad we don't punish them like we used to. You know what he means. The good old days. Disgusting. The man bemoans the Constitution that prohibits cruel and unusual a punishment. 61% of the US population supports the death penalty (at least in principle). Obviously it's fairly prohibitive in terms of cost. What is wrong with you calling 60% of the population disgusting? Maybe you should start to realize a sizeable majority of the US just straight up don't agree with you, so maybe you should change your outlook on the world and that it doesn't revolve around you instead of shitting on everyone? http://www.gallup.com/poll/186218/solid-majority-continue-support-death-penalty.aspx This is literally an appeal to majority, as in the classic error of judgement. If 60% of x country support stoning adulterers, you would defend that I assume? No, but in the same sense I wont go call 25% of the US population deplorable, or call 60% of the population disgusting. That is not how you achieve unity. Seriously, I come to this thread frequently enough, and Plansix is such an awful shit poster who just tries to demonize everyone who doesn't agree with him. It's a very uninviting environment to have a conversation in. This is a discussion board, not the UN. No one is going for "unity" here. This is a place of philosophical/ethical/political discourse, not bringing people together around a common goal. Alright, I've gotten a bit worked up, because some people have had really bad arguments for the last hour or two, so I apologize if I'm being a bit rude or harsh. That said, I completely disagree with you on anything to do with 4 year degrees here. Capital punishment is a question of morality and philosophy, that is not something that anyone should have a bigger voice on than someone else for, regardless of how much more educated and how much more money they have. Dealing with foreign relations, sure, let the experts do that, dealing with deciding whether the Death Penalty is just? No. Do you know what Habeas Corpus is? And habeas corpus is relevant here because.....? Because the process that underpins the carrying out of the death penalty is incredibly complex and highly unintuitive. Accordingly, the notion that the propriety of the death penalty is an easily accessible topic for the layman is not exactly accurate, particularly when many anti-death penalty perspectives focus on the process above the moral question. Yes, the abstract question is, but the reality of it is not.
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On September 20 2016 07:14 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2016 07:13 xDaunt wrote:On September 20 2016 07:11 farvacola wrote:On September 20 2016 07:10 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 07:05 Mohdoo wrote:On September 20 2016 07:00 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 06:56 Plansix wrote:https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/777971370567331840Trump, what a guy. Saying it's sad we are not horrible monsters like the terrorist. That we treat wounded people and give them trials. That is it sad we don't punish them like we used to. You know what he means. The good old days. Disgusting. The man bemoans the Constitution that prohibits cruel and unusual a punishment. 61% of the US population supports the death penalty (at least in principle). Obviously it's fairly prohibitive in terms of cost. When the average American doesn't even have a 4 year degree, citing consensus as a justification for morality doesn't make much sense. Support of an idea being widespread does not make it morally justifiable. Consider the percentage of Egypt that supports various forms of barbarism that we scoff at. Sure, our country is significantly more educated, cultured and whatnot, but it is still an example of widespread support for complete horseshit. I know I don't need to bring up the typical example of slavery. On September 20 2016 07:05 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 07:03 Dan HH wrote:On September 20 2016 07:00 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 06:56 Plansix wrote:https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/777971370567331840Trump, what a guy. Saying it's sad we are not horrible monsters like the terrorist. That we treat wounded people and give them trials. That is it sad we don't punish them like we used to. You know what he means. The good old days. Disgusting. The man bemoans the Constitution that prohibits cruel and unusual a punishment. 61% of the US population supports the death penalty (at least in principle). Obviously it's fairly prohibitive in terms of cost. What is wrong with you calling 60% of the population disgusting? Maybe you should start to realize a sizeable majority of the US just straight up don't agree with you, so maybe you should change your outlook on the world and that it doesn't revolve around you instead of shitting on everyone? http://www.gallup.com/poll/186218/solid-majority-continue-support-death-penalty.aspx This is literally an appeal to majority, as in the classic error of judgement. If 60% of x country support stoning adulterers, you would defend that I assume? No, but in the same sense I wont go call 25% of the US population deplorable, or call 60% of the population disgusting. That is not how you achieve unity. Seriously, I come to this thread frequently enough, and Plansix is such an awful shit poster who just tries to demonize everyone who doesn't agree with him. It's a very uninviting environment to have a conversation in. This is a discussion board, not the UN. No one is going for "unity" here. This is a place of philosophical/ethical/political discourse, not bringing people together around a common goal. Alright, I've gotten a bit worked up, because some people have had really bad arguments for the last hour or two, so I apologize if I'm being a bit rude or harsh. That said, I completely disagree with you on anything to do with 4 year degrees here. Capital punishment is a question of morality and philosophy, that is not something that anyone should have a bigger voice on than someone else for, regardless of how much more educated and how much more money they have. Dealing with foreign relations, sure, let the experts do that, dealing with deciding whether the Death Penalty is just? No. Do you know what Habeas Corpus is? And habeas corpus is relevant here because.....? You missed the part where Trump complained that the guy would get a lawyer? Or, for that matter, called for a harsh punishment of someone not yet convicted. Where the hell are we going to find a fair jury for this guy?
I think you need to read Trump's statement again with a bare minimum of charity.
And nothing fiwifaki has said implicates habeas corpus, anyway.
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On September 20 2016 07:13 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2016 07:11 farvacola wrote:On September 20 2016 07:10 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 07:05 Mohdoo wrote:On September 20 2016 07:00 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 06:56 Plansix wrote:https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/777971370567331840Drumpf, what a guy. Saying it's sad we are not horrible monsters like the terrorist. That we treat wounded people and give them trials. That is it sad we don't punish them like we used to. You know what he means. The good old days. Disgusting. The man bemoans the Constitution that prohibits cruel and unusual a punishment. 61% of the US population supports the death penalty (at least in principle). Obviously it's fairly prohibitive in terms of cost. When the average American doesn't even have a 4 year degree, citing consensus as a justification for morality doesn't make much sense. Support of an idea being widespread does not make it morally justifiable. Consider the percentage of Egypt that supports various forms of barbarism that we scoff at. Sure, our country is significantly more educated, cultured and whatnot, but it is still an example of widespread support for complete horseshit. I know I don't need to bring up the typical example of slavery. On September 20 2016 07:05 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 07:03 Dan HH wrote:On September 20 2016 07:00 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 06:56 Plansix wrote:https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/777971370567331840Drumpf, what a guy. Saying it's sad we are not horrible monsters like the terrorist. That we treat wounded people and give them trials. That is it sad we don't punish them like we used to. You know what he means. The good old days. Disgusting. The man bemoans the Constitution that prohibits cruel and unusual a punishment. 61% of the US population supports the death penalty (at least in principle). Obviously it's fairly prohibitive in terms of cost. What is wrong with you calling 60% of the population disgusting? Maybe you should start to realize a sizeable majority of the US just straight up don't agree with you, so maybe you should change your outlook on the world and that it doesn't revolve around you instead of shitting on everyone? http://www.gallup.com/poll/186218/solid-majority-continue-support-death-penalty.aspx This is literally an appeal to majority, as in the classic error of judgement. If 60% of x country support stoning adulterers, you would defend that I assume? No, but in the same sense I wont go call 25% of the US population deplorable, or call 60% of the population disgusting. That is not how you achieve unity. Seriously, I come to this thread frequently enough, and Plansix is such an awful shit poster who just tries to demonize everyone who doesn't agree with him. It's a very uninviting environment to have a conversation in. This is a discussion board, not the UN. No one is going for "unity" here. This is a place of philosophical/ethical/political discourse, not bringing people together around a common goal. Alright, I've gotten a bit worked up, because some people have had really bad arguments for the last hour or two, so I apologize if I'm being a bit rude or harsh. That said, I completely disagree with you on anything to do with 4 year degrees here. Capital punishment is a question of morality and philosophy, that is not something that anyone should have a bigger voice on than someone else for, regardless of how much more educated and how much more money they have. Dealing with foreign relations, sure, let the experts do that, dealing with deciding whether the Death Penalty is just? No. Do you know what Habeas Corpus is? And habeas corpus is relevant here because.....?
because everything ? I guess we should just remove peoples rights when we feel like it. How very Repub... oh wait...
Nothing Fiwi said had anything to do with it, accept the part where he posted a twitter link with Trumps statement.
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On September 20 2016 07:11 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2016 07:10 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 07:05 Mohdoo wrote:On September 20 2016 07:00 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 06:56 Plansix wrote:https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/777971370567331840Trump, what a guy. Saying it's sad we are not horrible monsters like the terrorist. That we treat wounded people and give them trials. That is it sad we don't punish them like we used to. You know what he means. The good old days. Disgusting. The man bemoans the Constitution that prohibits cruel and unusual a punishment. 61% of the US population supports the death penalty (at least in principle). Obviously it's fairly prohibitive in terms of cost. When the average American doesn't even have a 4 year degree, citing consensus as a justification for morality doesn't make much sense. Support of an idea being widespread does not make it morally justifiable. Consider the percentage of Egypt that supports various forms of barbarism that we scoff at. Sure, our country is significantly more educated, cultured and whatnot, but it is still an example of widespread support for complete horseshit. I know I don't need to bring up the typical example of slavery. On September 20 2016 07:05 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 07:03 Dan HH wrote:On September 20 2016 07:00 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 06:56 Plansix wrote:https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/777971370567331840Trump, what a guy. Saying it's sad we are not horrible monsters like the terrorist. That we treat wounded people and give them trials. That is it sad we don't punish them like we used to. You know what he means. The good old days. Disgusting. The man bemoans the Constitution that prohibits cruel and unusual a punishment. 61% of the US population supports the death penalty (at least in principle). Obviously it's fairly prohibitive in terms of cost. What is wrong with you calling 60% of the population disgusting? Maybe you should start to realize a sizeable majority of the US just straight up don't agree with you, so maybe you should change your outlook on the world and that it doesn't revolve around you instead of shitting on everyone? http://www.gallup.com/poll/186218/solid-majority-continue-support-death-penalty.aspx This is literally an appeal to majority, as in the classic error of judgement. If 60% of x country support stoning adulterers, you would defend that I assume? No, but in the same sense I wont go call 25% of the US population deplorable, or call 60% of the population disgusting. That is not how you achieve unity. Seriously, I come to this thread frequently enough, and Plansix is such an awful shit poster who just tries to demonize everyone who doesn't agree with him. It's a very uninviting environment to have a conversation in. This is a discussion board, not the UN. No one is going for "unity" here. This is a place of philosophical/ethical/political discourse, not bringing people together around a common goal. Alright, I've gotten a bit worked up, because some people have had really bad arguments for the last hour or two, so I apologize if I'm being a bit rude or harsh. That said, I completely disagree with you on anything to do with 4 year degrees here. Capital punishment is a question of morality and philosophy, that is not something that anyone should have a bigger voice on than someone else for, regardless of how much more educated and how much more money they have. Dealing with foreign relations, sure, let the experts do that, dealing with deciding whether the Death Penalty is just? No. Do you know what Habeas Corpus is?
Yes I do, but that is only the case because a majority of people in the country believe it, or want it to be this way.
If 55% of the population wanted a Hispanic person to be executed without question for any crime, and they were adamant enough about it, then yes, it'd be done. (well I suppose it'd have to be a larger majority since you'd need to change the constitution).
Point still stands, if a majority of people want something, that's how it will be, regardless of how barbaric or how much you disagree with it. Luckily we have a large percentage of the population that look beyond basic instincts, and we have pretty well defined systems in our society...
We still need to all get along, and if you start making mean arguments where you don't respect people's opinions, well that's where things don't work. So that's why we have say 1% of the population who just take it too far, and they are too much to handle, because they don't attempt for any kind of middle ground, and those people are put into prison/jail.
The argument I'm just trying to say is that what people believe and what they want... That's how the society is going to run with our current government system.
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United States43803 Posts
On September 20 2016 07:16 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2016 07:14 KwarK wrote:On September 20 2016 07:13 xDaunt wrote:On September 20 2016 07:11 farvacola wrote:On September 20 2016 07:10 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 07:05 Mohdoo wrote:On September 20 2016 07:00 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 06:56 Plansix wrote:https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/777971370567331840Trump, what a guy. Saying it's sad we are not horrible monsters like the terrorist. That we treat wounded people and give them trials. That is it sad we don't punish them like we used to. You know what he means. The good old days. Disgusting. The man bemoans the Constitution that prohibits cruel and unusual a punishment. 61% of the US population supports the death penalty (at least in principle). Obviously it's fairly prohibitive in terms of cost. When the average American doesn't even have a 4 year degree, citing consensus as a justification for morality doesn't make much sense. Support of an idea being widespread does not make it morally justifiable. Consider the percentage of Egypt that supports various forms of barbarism that we scoff at. Sure, our country is significantly more educated, cultured and whatnot, but it is still an example of widespread support for complete horseshit. I know I don't need to bring up the typical example of slavery. On September 20 2016 07:05 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 07:03 Dan HH wrote:On September 20 2016 07:00 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 06:56 Plansix wrote:https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/777971370567331840Trump, what a guy. Saying it's sad we are not horrible monsters like the terrorist. That we treat wounded people and give them trials. That is it sad we don't punish them like we used to. You know what he means. The good old days. Disgusting. The man bemoans the Constitution that prohibits cruel and unusual a punishment. 61% of the US population supports the death penalty (at least in principle). Obviously it's fairly prohibitive in terms of cost. What is wrong with you calling 60% of the population disgusting? Maybe you should start to realize a sizeable majority of the US just straight up don't agree with you, so maybe you should change your outlook on the world and that it doesn't revolve around you instead of shitting on everyone? http://www.gallup.com/poll/186218/solid-majority-continue-support-death-penalty.aspx This is literally an appeal to majority, as in the classic error of judgement. If 60% of x country support stoning adulterers, you would defend that I assume? No, but in the same sense I wont go call 25% of the US population deplorable, or call 60% of the population disgusting. That is not how you achieve unity. Seriously, I come to this thread frequently enough, and Plansix is such an awful shit poster who just tries to demonize everyone who doesn't agree with him. It's a very uninviting environment to have a conversation in. This is a discussion board, not the UN. No one is going for "unity" here. This is a place of philosophical/ethical/political discourse, not bringing people together around a common goal. Alright, I've gotten a bit worked up, because some people have had really bad arguments for the last hour or two, so I apologize if I'm being a bit rude or harsh. That said, I completely disagree with you on anything to do with 4 year degrees here. Capital punishment is a question of morality and philosophy, that is not something that anyone should have a bigger voice on than someone else for, regardless of how much more educated and how much more money they have. Dealing with foreign relations, sure, let the experts do that, dealing with deciding whether the Death Penalty is just? No. Do you know what Habeas Corpus is? And habeas corpus is relevant here because.....? You missed the part where Trump complained that the guy would get a lawyer? Or, for that matter, called for a harsh punishment of someone not yet convicted. Where the hell are we going to find a fair jury for this guy? I think you need to read Trump's statement again with a bare minimum of charity. And nothing fiwifaki has said implicates habeas corpus, anyway.
Nothing Trump has ever said has led me to believe that anything he says should be interpreted charitably. Hell, even his literal charitable donations turned out to be corrupt payoffs to shield himself from prosecution.
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On September 20 2016 07:15 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2016 07:13 xDaunt wrote:On September 20 2016 07:11 farvacola wrote:On September 20 2016 07:10 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 07:05 Mohdoo wrote:On September 20 2016 07:00 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 06:56 Plansix wrote:https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/777971370567331840Trump, what a guy. Saying it's sad we are not horrible monsters like the terrorist. That we treat wounded people and give them trials. That is it sad we don't punish them like we used to. You know what he means. The good old days. Disgusting. The man bemoans the Constitution that prohibits cruel and unusual a punishment. 61% of the US population supports the death penalty (at least in principle). Obviously it's fairly prohibitive in terms of cost. When the average American doesn't even have a 4 year degree, citing consensus as a justification for morality doesn't make much sense. Support of an idea being widespread does not make it morally justifiable. Consider the percentage of Egypt that supports various forms of barbarism that we scoff at. Sure, our country is significantly more educated, cultured and whatnot, but it is still an example of widespread support for complete horseshit. I know I don't need to bring up the typical example of slavery. On September 20 2016 07:05 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 07:03 Dan HH wrote:On September 20 2016 07:00 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 06:56 Plansix wrote:https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/777971370567331840Trump, what a guy. Saying it's sad we are not horrible monsters like the terrorist. That we treat wounded people and give them trials. That is it sad we don't punish them like we used to. You know what he means. The good old days. Disgusting. The man bemoans the Constitution that prohibits cruel and unusual a punishment. 61% of the US population supports the death penalty (at least in principle). Obviously it's fairly prohibitive in terms of cost. What is wrong with you calling 60% of the population disgusting? Maybe you should start to realize a sizeable majority of the US just straight up don't agree with you, so maybe you should change your outlook on the world and that it doesn't revolve around you instead of shitting on everyone? http://www.gallup.com/poll/186218/solid-majority-continue-support-death-penalty.aspx This is literally an appeal to majority, as in the classic error of judgement. If 60% of x country support stoning adulterers, you would defend that I assume? No, but in the same sense I wont go call 25% of the US population deplorable, or call 60% of the population disgusting. That is not how you achieve unity. Seriously, I come to this thread frequently enough, and Plansix is such an awful shit poster who just tries to demonize everyone who doesn't agree with him. It's a very uninviting environment to have a conversation in. This is a discussion board, not the UN. No one is going for "unity" here. This is a place of philosophical/ethical/political discourse, not bringing people together around a common goal. Alright, I've gotten a bit worked up, because some people have had really bad arguments for the last hour or two, so I apologize if I'm being a bit rude or harsh. That said, I completely disagree with you on anything to do with 4 year degrees here. Capital punishment is a question of morality and philosophy, that is not something that anyone should have a bigger voice on than someone else for, regardless of how much more educated and how much more money they have. Dealing with foreign relations, sure, let the experts do that, dealing with deciding whether the Death Penalty is just? No. Do you know what Habeas Corpus is? And habeas corpus is relevant here because.....? Because the process that underpins the carrying out of the death penalty is incredibly complex and highly unintuitive. Accordingly, the notion that the propriety of the death penalty is an easily accessible topic for the layman is not exactly accurate, particularly when many anti-death penalty perspectives focus on the process above the moral question. Yes, the abstract question is, but the reality of it is not.
So what? That the process is fucked up certainly shouldn't preclude people from commenting on the fact that it's fucked up.
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On September 20 2016 07:16 Rebs wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2016 07:13 xDaunt wrote:On September 20 2016 07:11 farvacola wrote:On September 20 2016 07:10 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 07:05 Mohdoo wrote:On September 20 2016 07:00 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 06:56 Plansix wrote:https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/777971370567331840Drumpf, what a guy. Saying it's sad we are not horrible monsters like the terrorist. That we treat wounded people and give them trials. That is it sad we don't punish them like we used to. You know what he means. The good old days. Disgusting. The man bemoans the Constitution that prohibits cruel and unusual a punishment. 61% of the US population supports the death penalty (at least in principle). Obviously it's fairly prohibitive in terms of cost. When the average American doesn't even have a 4 year degree, citing consensus as a justification for morality doesn't make much sense. Support of an idea being widespread does not make it morally justifiable. Consider the percentage of Egypt that supports various forms of barbarism that we scoff at. Sure, our country is significantly more educated, cultured and whatnot, but it is still an example of widespread support for complete horseshit. I know I don't need to bring up the typical example of slavery. On September 20 2016 07:05 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 07:03 Dan HH wrote:On September 20 2016 07:00 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 06:56 Plansix wrote:https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/777971370567331840Drumpf, what a guy. Saying it's sad we are not horrible monsters like the terrorist. That we treat wounded people and give them trials. That is it sad we don't punish them like we used to. You know what he means. The good old days. Disgusting. The man bemoans the Constitution that prohibits cruel and unusual a punishment. 61% of the US population supports the death penalty (at least in principle). Obviously it's fairly prohibitive in terms of cost. What is wrong with you calling 60% of the population disgusting? Maybe you should start to realize a sizeable majority of the US just straight up don't agree with you, so maybe you should change your outlook on the world and that it doesn't revolve around you instead of shitting on everyone? http://www.gallup.com/poll/186218/solid-majority-continue-support-death-penalty.aspx This is literally an appeal to majority, as in the classic error of judgement. If 60% of x country support stoning adulterers, you would defend that I assume? No, but in the same sense I wont go call 25% of the US population deplorable, or call 60% of the population disgusting. That is not how you achieve unity. Seriously, I come to this thread frequently enough, and Plansix is such an awful shit poster who just tries to demonize everyone who doesn't agree with him. It's a very uninviting environment to have a conversation in. This is a discussion board, not the UN. No one is going for "unity" here. This is a place of philosophical/ethical/political discourse, not bringing people together around a common goal. Alright, I've gotten a bit worked up, because some people have had really bad arguments for the last hour or two, so I apologize if I'm being a bit rude or harsh. That said, I completely disagree with you on anything to do with 4 year degrees here. Capital punishment is a question of morality and philosophy, that is not something that anyone should have a bigger voice on than someone else for, regardless of how much more educated and how much more money they have. Dealing with foreign relations, sure, let the experts do that, dealing with deciding whether the Death Penalty is just? No. Do you know what Habeas Corpus is? And habeas corpus is relevant here because.....? because everything ? I guess we should just remove peoples rights when we feel like it. How very Repub... oh wait...
Xdaunt is right that Trump didn't stay that. It is why I was so confused move to the death penalty discussion. Trump didn't talk about that at all, but suddenly we are there.
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On September 20 2016 07:10 FiWiFaKi wrote:
Dealing with foreign relations, sure, let the experts do that
I'd prefer someone who doesn't know what the nuclear triad is and approaches everything in FP from a business deal perspective  .
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On September 20 2016 07:17 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2016 07:11 farvacola wrote:On September 20 2016 07:10 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 07:05 Mohdoo wrote:On September 20 2016 07:00 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 06:56 Plansix wrote:https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/777971370567331840Drumpf, what a guy. Saying it's sad we are not horrible monsters like the terrorist. That we treat wounded people and give them trials. That is it sad we don't punish them like we used to. You know what he means. The good old days. Disgusting. The man bemoans the Constitution that prohibits cruel and unusual a punishment. 61% of the US population supports the death penalty (at least in principle). Obviously it's fairly prohibitive in terms of cost. When the average American doesn't even have a 4 year degree, citing consensus as a justification for morality doesn't make much sense. Support of an idea being widespread does not make it morally justifiable. Consider the percentage of Egypt that supports various forms of barbarism that we scoff at. Sure, our country is significantly more educated, cultured and whatnot, but it is still an example of widespread support for complete horseshit. I know I don't need to bring up the typical example of slavery. On September 20 2016 07:05 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 07:03 Dan HH wrote:On September 20 2016 07:00 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 06:56 Plansix wrote:https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/777971370567331840Drumpf, what a guy. Saying it's sad we are not horrible monsters like the terrorist. That we treat wounded people and give them trials. That is it sad we don't punish them like we used to. You know what he means. The good old days. Disgusting. The man bemoans the Constitution that prohibits cruel and unusual a punishment. 61% of the US population supports the death penalty (at least in principle). Obviously it's fairly prohibitive in terms of cost. What is wrong with you calling 60% of the population disgusting? Maybe you should start to realize a sizeable majority of the US just straight up don't agree with you, so maybe you should change your outlook on the world and that it doesn't revolve around you instead of shitting on everyone? http://www.gallup.com/poll/186218/solid-majority-continue-support-death-penalty.aspx This is literally an appeal to majority, as in the classic error of judgement. If 60% of x country support stoning adulterers, you would defend that I assume? No, but in the same sense I wont go call 25% of the US population deplorable, or call 60% of the population disgusting. That is not how you achieve unity. Seriously, I come to this thread frequently enough, and Plansix is such an awful shit poster who just tries to demonize everyone who doesn't agree with him. It's a very uninviting environment to have a conversation in. This is a discussion board, not the UN. No one is going for "unity" here. This is a place of philosophical/ethical/political discourse, not bringing people together around a common goal. Alright, I've gotten a bit worked up, because some people have had really bad arguments for the last hour or two, so I apologize if I'm being a bit rude or harsh. That said, I completely disagree with you on anything to do with 4 year degrees here. Capital punishment is a question of morality and philosophy, that is not something that anyone should have a bigger voice on than someone else for, regardless of how much more educated and how much more money they have. Dealing with foreign relations, sure, let the experts do that, dealing with deciding whether the Death Penalty is just? No. Do you know what Habeas Corpus is? Yes I do, but that is only the case because a majority of people in the country believe it, or want it to be this way. If 55% of the population wanted a Hispanic person to be executed without question for any crime, and they were adamant enough about it, then yes, it'd be done. (well I suppose it'd have to be a larger majority since you'd need to change the constitution). Point still stands, if a majority of people want something, that's how it will be, regardless of how barbaric or how much you disagree with it. Luckily we have a large percentage of the population that look beyond basic instincts, and we have pretty well defined systems in our society... We still need to all get along, and if you start making mean arguments where you don't respect people's opinions, well that's where things don't work. So that's why we have say 1% of the population who just take it too far, and they are too much to handle, because they don't attempt for any kind of middle ground, and those people are put into prison/jail. The argument I'm just trying to say is that what people believe and what they want... That's how the society is going to run with our current government system.
Your arguments are literally that if someone convinced x amount of people to do something that is objectively wrong .. I dono say .. go to war on a lie... thats ok because the majority is ok with it ?
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I'm not taking a stance on Habeus Corpus, but Abraham Lincoln suspended it for two years and history considers him one of the greatest presidents of our nation to this day in spite of that fact. Just something I find mildly amusing.
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On September 20 2016 07:19 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
I'm not taking a stance on Habeus Corpus, but Abraham Lincoln suspended it for two years and history considers him one of the greatest presidents of our nation to this day in spite of that fact. Just something I find mildly amusing.
He isn't remembered for that and I would argue that a lot of shit that happened during the civil war shouldn't be taken as a model for future conflicts. The suspension of Habeus Corpus included.
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United States43803 Posts
On September 20 2016 07:19 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
I'm not taking a stance on Habeus Corpus, but Abraham Lincoln suspended it for two years and history considers him one of the greatest presidents of our nation to this day in spite of that fact. Just something I find mildly amusing.
And Patton punched some veterans for having PTSD after enduring horrors he never had to. History is a fickle mistress.
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On September 20 2016 07:17 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2016 07:11 farvacola wrote:On September 20 2016 07:10 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 07:05 Mohdoo wrote:On September 20 2016 07:00 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 06:56 Plansix wrote:https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/777971370567331840Trump, what a guy. Saying it's sad we are not horrible monsters like the terrorist. That we treat wounded people and give them trials. That is it sad we don't punish them like we used to. You know what he means. The good old days. Disgusting. The man bemoans the Constitution that prohibits cruel and unusual a punishment. 61% of the US population supports the death penalty (at least in principle). Obviously it's fairly prohibitive in terms of cost. When the average American doesn't even have a 4 year degree, citing consensus as a justification for morality doesn't make much sense. Support of an idea being widespread does not make it morally justifiable. Consider the percentage of Egypt that supports various forms of barbarism that we scoff at. Sure, our country is significantly more educated, cultured and whatnot, but it is still an example of widespread support for complete horseshit. I know I don't need to bring up the typical example of slavery. On September 20 2016 07:05 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 07:03 Dan HH wrote:On September 20 2016 07:00 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 06:56 Plansix wrote:https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/777971370567331840Trump, what a guy. Saying it's sad we are not horrible monsters like the terrorist. That we treat wounded people and give them trials. That is it sad we don't punish them like we used to. You know what he means. The good old days. Disgusting. The man bemoans the Constitution that prohibits cruel and unusual a punishment. 61% of the US population supports the death penalty (at least in principle). Obviously it's fairly prohibitive in terms of cost. What is wrong with you calling 60% of the population disgusting? Maybe you should start to realize a sizeable majority of the US just straight up don't agree with you, so maybe you should change your outlook on the world and that it doesn't revolve around you instead of shitting on everyone? http://www.gallup.com/poll/186218/solid-majority-continue-support-death-penalty.aspx This is literally an appeal to majority, as in the classic error of judgement. If 60% of x country support stoning adulterers, you would defend that I assume? No, but in the same sense I wont go call 25% of the US population deplorable, or call 60% of the population disgusting. That is not how you achieve unity. Seriously, I come to this thread frequently enough, and Plansix is such an awful shit poster who just tries to demonize everyone who doesn't agree with him. It's a very uninviting environment to have a conversation in. This is a discussion board, not the UN. No one is going for "unity" here. This is a place of philosophical/ethical/political discourse, not bringing people together around a common goal. Alright, I've gotten a bit worked up, because some people have had really bad arguments for the last hour or two, so I apologize if I'm being a bit rude or harsh. That said, I completely disagree with you on anything to do with 4 year degrees here. Capital punishment is a question of morality and philosophy, that is not something that anyone should have a bigger voice on than someone else for, regardless of how much more educated and how much more money they have. Dealing with foreign relations, sure, let the experts do that, dealing with deciding whether the Death Penalty is just? No. Do you know what Habeas Corpus is? Yes I do, but that is only the case because a majority of people in the country believe it, or want it to be this way. If 55% of the population wanted a Hispanic person to be executed without question for any crime, and they were adamant enough about it, then yes, it'd be done. (well I suppose it'd have to be a larger majority since you'd need to change the constitution). Point still stands, if a majority of people want something, that's how it will be, regardless of how barbaric or how much you disagree with it. Luckily we have a large percentage of the population that look beyond basic instincts, and we have pretty well defined systems in our society... We still need to all get along, and if you start making mean arguments where you don't respect people's opinions, well that's where things don't work. So that's why we have say 1% of the population who just take it too far, and they are too much to handle, because they don't attempt for any kind of middle ground, and those people are put into prison/jail. The argument I'm just trying to say is that what people believe and what they want... That's how the society is going to run with our current government system.
Maybe eventually, but there are a great many things favored by the majority of people that are not the rule of the land. Easiest one to point out off the top of my head is marijuana legalization status. Or stricter background checks for guns. America is an oligopoly, not a democracy and was intentionally designed to keep the lay person as far away from making political decisions as was possible.
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On September 20 2016 07:19 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
I'm not taking a stance on Habeus Corpus, but Abraham Lincoln suspended it for two years and history considers him one of the greatest presidents of our nation to this day in spite of that fact. Just something I find mildly amusing.
There was alot of poor decisions made in that period. I would think learning from them is in our best interests. Also he kinda got boned for it also.
This is called a tangent, please avoid tangents. Lets not start implying that we should be comparing Abraham Lincoln to Drumpf, which is literally the only conceivable reason you would bring this up. Or am I mistaken ?
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On September 20 2016 07:12 Rebs wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2016 07:05 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 07:03 Dan HH wrote:On September 20 2016 07:00 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 06:56 Plansix wrote:https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/777971370567331840Drumpf, what a guy. Saying it's sad we are not horrible monsters like the terrorist. That we treat wounded people and give them trials. That is it sad we don't punish them like we used to. You know what he means. The good old days. Disgusting. The man bemoans the Constitution that prohibits cruel and unusual a punishment. 61% of the US population supports the death penalty (at least in principle). Obviously it's fairly prohibitive in terms of cost. What is wrong with you calling 60% of the population disgusting? Maybe you should start to realize a sizeable majority of the US just straight up don't agree with you, so maybe you should change your outlook on the world and that it doesn't revolve around you instead of shitting on everyone? http://www.gallup.com/poll/186218/solid-majority-continue-support-death-penalty.aspx This is literally an appeal to majority, as in the classic error of judgement. If 60% of x country support stoning adulterers, you would defend that I assume? No, but in the same sense I wont go call 25% of the US population deplorable, or call 60% of the population disgusting. That is not how you achieve unity. Seriously, I come to this thread frequently enough, and Plansix is such an awful shit poster who just tries to demonize everyone who doesn't agree with him. It's a very uninviting environment to have a conversation in. Him not being banned from this thread truly boggles my mind, surely if he used his arguments to support the candidate who is less liked on TL (Drumpf), he would have not been here for quite some time. While I dont agree with Plansix repeating himself over and over again about things everyone knows him calling you out on an appeal to majority (which is a really bad argument) and your reaction are completely disproportionate. I dont see the need to get personal. If you are going to stick to the idea that an appeal to majority is a good argument then you are opening up to being in agreement and things being ok for alot distasteful things around the world. Im sure you think are not that kind of person. Or maybe you are and are ok with it.
I'm not trying to appeal to the majority. I dislike when people go call out a large percentage of the population medieval, disgusting, whatever. You're right that this instance wasn't too bad, but it's more of a compounded effect of the past.
I am adamant about disliking the current SJW culture, or just the far liberal left that I think views the world in a very utopian way and is unrealistic. And hence, here I am, formulating my arguments why I think it's a flawed philosophy, or what isn't being properly considered. There's a lot I disagree with Trump as well (climate change, I'm pro-choice, I support national education standards for example), but I'm here to present my arguments and hopefully convince a few people, or expand my own worldviews and see new opinions.
The issue for me becomes where we start seeing these people as bad people. My view is we're all born the same, there's not any inherent evil within us, and we are shaped by our experiences. So based on that, and to have any sort of meaningful discussion, you need to have an empathy for the other side.
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EPT
