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On September 20 2016 05:33 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2016 04:35 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 20 2016 04:32 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2016 04:27 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 04:23 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 20 2016 04:17 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2016 04:09 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 20 2016 03:58 Plansix wrote:
The reasons I dislike him are unchanged. He is still uninformed, deeply stupid and a man-baby that is unfit for office. Even if I ignore all the populist non-sense, he is still a garbage candidate due to his lack of knowledge and complete distain for people with knowledge. I don't think he is uninformed though. Yes, he is tough on immigration but that's due to all those reported incidence from Europe and of course 911. Yes, he is right that illegal immigrants needs to turn up and sign up for legal residency and whoever that isn't qualified needs to be kicked out. That's actually really anti corporate and would grant the one that deserves it minimum wage and other social benefit. He is doing a lot of goods for the people. The only people that hates on him are masochist, they know that there are some undeserved illegals here and of course they do exist. Yeah, I disagree on every level. He shows a basic lack of understanding on most international issues. His plan to make Mexico pay for the wall was comical at best, tragically uninformed at worst. His talk about dealing with ISIS can be described as that of a middle school play ground bully or child attempting to sound tough. His distain for the press, political process and judicial system have been evident throughout this election. He is the very definition of the person I never want to see elected, a self aggrandizing blow hard who hates people who better informed than him. And he surrounds himself with yes-men and people who are willing to ride his coat tails for their own personal gain. I got through George W Bush. I’m not doing it again, especially with someone even dumber than Bush. And somehow worse at public speaking. He is not ACTUALLY thinking that Mexico will pay for the wall? Are you THIS naive for real? I don't believe that you are. Its an intimidating tactics, his point is that Mexico is getting the better deal out of the US-Mexico relationship. So he wants to set new tone with Mexico and the quickest way to get Mexico's attention is to go an outrageous deal then to negotiate afterward. You are definitely not thinking out of the box here. While I don't agree with you, since Mexico is going to pay for the wall, but simply through Tariffs or some other trade means, not a hey, give us $1 billion dollars a year for the next while so we can build a wall... Plansix does take most things at absurdly face value, and hence it can be difficult to discuss anything politics with him. On September 20 2016 04:26 TheYango wrote:On September 20 2016 04:23 RealityIsKing wrote:
He is not ACTUALLY thinking that Mexico will pay for the wall? Are you THIS naive for real? I don't believe that you are.
Its an intimidating tactics, his point is that Mexico is getting the better deal out of the US-Mexico relationship.
So he wants to set new tone with Mexico and the quickest way to get Mexico's attention is to go an outrageous deal then to negotiate afterward.
You are definitely not thinking out of the box here. The problem isn't whether or not Mexico will pay for the wall. The problem is that suggesting that a new wall will actually significantly impact illegal immigration in a productive way deeply misunderstands how illegal immigrants end up becoming illegal immigrants, and what effects putting up a wall would actually have. The wall is synonymous with increased border security. Anyone who imagines any kind of wall being erected and everything else staying the same is wrong. Trump and his advisors aren't/won't be stupid enough to spend billions of dollars for no reason whatsoever. So that part of his plan he is selling is flawed, but we should trust that the rest of it is fine because reasons. Also, this is the guy who lied to people attending his university, claiming the classes would help them make more money or provide education. But we should believe this guy, with a decades long history of defrauding to people to make a quick buck. Well way better than Hillary with so many more dirt on her. And she ACTUALLY costed people's lives in the Middle East. You understand that 13 hours wasn't actually a documentary, right? That you can't just shout "Ben Ghazi!" and have everyone shout back "yes, Ben Ghazi" and skip the actual argument.
Skipping the argument seems to be his plan for this thread. I detailed all the reasons why I would vote for Trump due to his plans to end the ACA and general aggression towards Muslim friends who are terrified of Trump winning. And the response was “but you can’t ignore reality” like that was a counter augment.
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United States42685 Posts
On September 20 2016 05:30 RealityIsKing wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2016 05:25 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2016 05:06 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 20 2016 05:04 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2016 05:00 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 20 2016 04:58 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2016 04:52 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 20 2016 04:49 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 04:42 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2016 04:37 RealityIsKing wrote:
[quote]
What about Hillary though?
She have more chance of not following up than Trump.
At least with Trump on the helm, he doesn't have as much favors to pay for since they are funded differently. You do know that Trump is a private business owner and he says his children will be in charge of his company while he serves? If you think there will be less pay for play under Trump, you might be in for an amazing surprise. Are you under the impression that Trump is becoming President to get rich? I thought we put that conspiracy during the primaries. Either way, $4.5 billion in net worth, which some of isn't even in the US doesn't allow Trump to drain the budget with his privacy business even if that was the case. I think he is a fairly selfish person, and I think he's main motivation for what he's doing is he want to leave the world in a state similar to how he found it when he was younger, which some modifications like less racism, more modern tradition values, so allowing gay marriage, etc... But simply to fight the liberal left movement, for his kids and family (and for his own ideology too). I never get the impression that he's doing it for wealth gain - maybe for popularity sure, but that's okay with me. How can we convince Plansix to stop his Trumphobia?  I think we are being very reasonable here. Trump sucks. He is a terrible candidate. He is a two bit con-artist with a long history of defrauding people, which did not stop during this election. People who claim he is going to be this transformative force for good and change can believe what they want, but I’m going to call them naïve. Okay but that's still a better candidate than Hillary though. At least Trump is planning on doing more for Americans than her. No. He isn't. Straight up. Hilary and the democratic party plans to continue with things that make my life better. Trump wants to end them and cut taxes on people that make more in a year and I will in 15. There is no reason for me to vote for that man. Zero. Even without all the xenophobic bullshit, he offers me literally nothing. There is no reason for me to vote for him. So basically you are mad that he is going to tax people that makes more money than a certain amount? And you are apparently really rich and don't like that? Okay you can live in your "high class" life but the rest of us though, its a different story. ?????? He is going to cut taxes for the rich. ????????? Clearly there is some misunderstanding, state your points more clearly.
Trump wants to end them and cut taxes on people that make more in a year and I will in 15
this wasn't particularly ambiguous, you just completely failed to read it
Let's make this simple. Trump is going to massively slash taxes, particularly on the rich, while at the same time massively increasing spending on immigration enforcement, the military, the surveillance state, his wall and other vanity projects. This is a recipe for cutting essential services that the poor depend upon to survive while simultaneously increasing the national debt. I'd vote for the rotting corpse of Reagan before I voted for Trump.
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On September 20 2016 05:39 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2016 05:30 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 20 2016 05:25 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2016 05:06 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 20 2016 05:04 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2016 05:00 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 20 2016 04:58 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2016 04:52 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 20 2016 04:49 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 04:42 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
You do know that Trump is a private business owner and he says his children will be in charge of his company while he serves? If you think there will be less pay for play under Trump, you might be in for an amazing surprise. Are you under the impression that Trump is becoming President to get rich? I thought we put that conspiracy during the primaries. Either way, $4.5 billion in net worth, which some of isn't even in the US doesn't allow Trump to drain the budget with his privacy business even if that was the case. I think he is a fairly selfish person, and I think he's main motivation for what he's doing is he want to leave the world in a state similar to how he found it when he was younger, which some modifications like less racism, more modern tradition values, so allowing gay marriage, etc... But simply to fight the liberal left movement, for his kids and family (and for his own ideology too). I never get the impression that he's doing it for wealth gain - maybe for popularity sure, but that's okay with me. How can we convince Plansix to stop his Trumphobia? I think we are being very reasonable here. Trump sucks. He is a terrible candidate. He is a two bit con-artist with a long history of defrauding people, which did not stop during this election. People who claim he is going to be this transformative force for good and change can believe what they want, but I’m going to call them naïve. Okay but that's still a better candidate than Hillary though. At least Trump is planning on doing more for Americans than her. No. He isn't. Straight up. Hilary and the democratic party plans to continue with things that make my life better. Trump wants to end them and cut taxes on people that make more in a year and I will in 15. There is no reason for me to vote for that man. Zero. Even without all the xenophobic bullshit, he offers me literally nothing. There is no reason for me to vote for him. So basically you are mad that he is going to tax people that makes more money than a certain amount? And you are apparently really rich and don't like that? Okay you can live in your "high class" life but the rest of us though, its a different story. ?????? He is going to cut taxes for the rich. ????????? Clearly there is some misunderstanding, state your points more clearly. Show nested quote +Trump wants to end them and cut taxes on people that make more in a year and I will in 15 this wasn't particularly ambiguous, you just completely failed to read it Let's make this simple. Trump is going to massively slash taxes, particularly on the rich, while at the same time massively increasing spending on immigration enforcement, the military, the surveillance state, his wall and other vanity projects. This is a recipe for cutting essential services that the poor depend upon to survive while simultaneously increasing the national debt. I'd vote for the rotting corpse of Reagan before I voted for Trump.
You do realize that 65%+ of the budget is spent on social security, health, and interest payments? Outside of military spending, everything else is a drop in the ocean. He can raise the budget on everything if he somehow restructures healthcare like he wants to.
Particularly that surveillance you're talking about, that's going to literally be 0.02-0.04% of the budget.
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On September 20 2016 05:42 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2016 05:39 KwarK wrote:On September 20 2016 05:30 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 20 2016 05:25 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2016 05:06 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 20 2016 05:04 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2016 05:00 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 20 2016 04:58 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2016 04:52 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 20 2016 04:49 FiWiFaKi wrote:
[quote]
Are you under the impression that Trump is becoming President to get rich? I thought we put that conspiracy during the primaries.
Either way, $4.5 billion in net worth, which some of isn't even in the US doesn't allow Trump to drain the budget with his privacy business even if that was the case.
I think he is a fairly selfish person, and I think he's main motivation for what he's doing is he want to leave the world in a state similar to how he found it when he was younger, which some modifications like less racism, more modern tradition values, so allowing gay marriage, etc... But simply to fight the liberal left movement, for his kids and family (and for his own ideology too). I never get the impression that he's doing it for wealth gain - maybe for popularity sure, but that's okay with me. How can we convince Plansix to stop his Trumphobia? I think we are being very reasonable here. Trump sucks. He is a terrible candidate. He is a two bit con-artist with a long history of defrauding people, which did not stop during this election. People who claim he is going to be this transformative force for good and change can believe what they want, but I’m going to call them naïve. Okay but that's still a better candidate than Hillary though. At least Trump is planning on doing more for Americans than her. No. He isn't. Straight up. Hilary and the democratic party plans to continue with things that make my life better. Trump wants to end them and cut taxes on people that make more in a year and I will in 15. There is no reason for me to vote for that man. Zero. Even without all the xenophobic bullshit, he offers me literally nothing. There is no reason for me to vote for him. So basically you are mad that he is going to tax people that makes more money than a certain amount? And you are apparently really rich and don't like that? Okay you can live in your "high class" life but the rest of us though, its a different story. ?????? He is going to cut taxes for the rich. ????????? Clearly there is some misunderstanding, state your points more clearly. Trump wants to end them and cut taxes on people that make more in a year and I will in 15 this wasn't particularly ambiguous, you just completely failed to read it Let's make this simple. Trump is going to massively slash taxes, particularly on the rich, while at the same time massively increasing spending on immigration enforcement, the military, the surveillance state, his wall and other vanity projects. This is a recipe for cutting essential services that the poor depend upon to survive while simultaneously increasing the national debt. I'd vote for the rotting corpse of Reagan before I voted for Trump. You do realize that 65%+ of the budget is spent on social security, health, and interest payments? Outside of military spending, everything else is a drop in the ocean. He can raise the budget on everything if he somehow restructures healthcare like he wants to.
This sounds like a recipe for me or my fiancée not having health care again, which is literally what Trump has promised. Sort of. Well mostly he has said that he wants to rework healthcare, but repeal the ACA. Which is one of the many reasons we won’t be voting for him.
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On September 20 2016 05:42 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2016 05:39 KwarK wrote:On September 20 2016 05:30 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 20 2016 05:25 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2016 05:06 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 20 2016 05:04 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2016 05:00 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 20 2016 04:58 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2016 04:52 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 20 2016 04:49 FiWiFaKi wrote:
[quote]
Are you under the impression that Trump is becoming President to get rich? I thought we put that conspiracy during the primaries.
Either way, $4.5 billion in net worth, which some of isn't even in the US doesn't allow Trump to drain the budget with his privacy business even if that was the case.
I think he is a fairly selfish person, and I think he's main motivation for what he's doing is he want to leave the world in a state similar to how he found it when he was younger, which some modifications like less racism, more modern tradition values, so allowing gay marriage, etc... But simply to fight the liberal left movement, for his kids and family (and for his own ideology too). I never get the impression that he's doing it for wealth gain - maybe for popularity sure, but that's okay with me. How can we convince Plansix to stop his Trumphobia? I think we are being very reasonable here. Trump sucks. He is a terrible candidate. He is a two bit con-artist with a long history of defrauding people, which did not stop during this election. People who claim he is going to be this transformative force for good and change can believe what they want, but I’m going to call them naïve. Okay but that's still a better candidate than Hillary though. At least Trump is planning on doing more for Americans than her. No. He isn't. Straight up. Hilary and the democratic party plans to continue with things that make my life better. Trump wants to end them and cut taxes on people that make more in a year and I will in 15. There is no reason for me to vote for that man. Zero. Even without all the xenophobic bullshit, he offers me literally nothing. There is no reason for me to vote for him. So basically you are mad that he is going to tax people that makes more money than a certain amount? And you are apparently really rich and don't like that? Okay you can live in your "high class" life but the rest of us though, its a different story. ?????? He is going to cut taxes for the rich. ????????? Clearly there is some misunderstanding, state your points more clearly. Trump wants to end them and cut taxes on people that make more in a year and I will in 15 this wasn't particularly ambiguous, you just completely failed to read it Let's make this simple. Trump is going to massively slash taxes, particularly on the rich, while at the same time massively increasing spending on immigration enforcement, the military, the surveillance state, his wall and other vanity projects. This is a recipe for cutting essential services that the poor depend upon to survive while simultaneously increasing the national debt. I'd vote for the rotting corpse of Reagan before I voted for Trump. You do realize that 65%+ of the budget is spent on social security, health, and interest payments? Outside of military spending, everything else is a drop in the ocean. He can raise the budget on everything if he somehow restructures healthcare like he wants to.
He's also been critical of military spending, despite saying he wants a better/stronger military, which people I guess automatically take as a synonym for spending more money.
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There was this hilarious NPR story this morning citing a bunch of economic organizations who pointed out that trumps economic plan of isolationism actually hurts the working-class voters who are supporting him the most. Combine this with Trump's continuing destruction of the Republican Party, and range of liberal policies he spouts, I have to ask if weve ever seen a voter base voting against their own interest as blatantly As Trump supporters are?
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On September 20 2016 05:30 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2016 04:23 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 20 2016 04:17 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2016 04:09 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 20 2016 03:58 Plansix wrote:
The reasons I dislike him are unchanged. He is still uninformed, deeply stupid and a man-baby that is unfit for office. Even if I ignore all the populist non-sense, he is still a garbage candidate due to his lack of knowledge and complete distain for people with knowledge. I don't think he is uninformed though. Yes, he is tough on immigration but that's due to all those reported incidence from Europe and of course 911. Yes, he is right that illegal immigrants needs to turn up and sign up for legal residency and whoever that isn't qualified needs to be kicked out. That's actually really anti corporate and would grant the one that deserves it minimum wage and other social benefit. He is doing a lot of goods for the people. The only people that hates on him are masochist, they know that there are some undeserved illegals here and of course they do exist. Yeah, I disagree on every level. He shows a basic lack of understanding on most international issues. His plan to make Mexico pay for the wall was comical at best, tragically uninformed at worst. His talk about dealing with ISIS can be described as that of a middle school play ground bully or child attempting to sound tough. His distain for the press, political process and judicial system have been evident throughout this election. He is the very definition of the person I never want to see elected, a self aggrandizing blow hard who hates people who better informed than him. And he surrounds himself with yes-men and people who are willing to ride his coat tails for their own personal gain. I got through George W Bush. I’m not doing it again, especially with someone even dumber than Bush. And somehow worse at public speaking. He is not ACTUALLY thinking that Mexico will pay for the wall? Are you THIS naive for real? I don't believe that you are. Its an intimidating tactics, his point is that Mexico is getting the better deal out of the US-Mexico relationship. So he wants to set new tone with Mexico and the quickest way to get Mexico's attention is to go an outrageous deal then to negotiate afterward. You are definitely not thinking out of the box here. It's pretty amusing to me that Trump supporters have to try so hard to change what Trump literally said in plain and unambiguous terms to be something more palatable. Especially when they ask him and he goes "nope, I literally meant what I said". Trump really is saying that he will get Mexico to write him a check for the wall. That's the plan. You might think "surely that cannot be the plan, that'd be really stupid" but it is the plan. That's where we are right now.
Trump, on several occasions say that he changes his plans accordingly on national television.
He have the potential to squeeze more benefits to the American in 4 years than Hillary, that's for sure.
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On September 20 2016 05:46 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2016 05:42 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 05:39 KwarK wrote:On September 20 2016 05:30 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 20 2016 05:25 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2016 05:06 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 20 2016 05:04 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2016 05:00 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 20 2016 04:58 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2016 04:52 RealityIsKing wrote:[quote] How can we convince Plansix to stop his Trumphobia? I think we are being very reasonable here. Trump sucks. He is a terrible candidate. He is a two bit con-artist with a long history of defrauding people, which did not stop during this election. People who claim he is going to be this transformative force for good and change can believe what they want, but I’m going to call them naïve. Okay but that's still a better candidate than Hillary though. At least Trump is planning on doing more for Americans than her. No. He isn't. Straight up. Hilary and the democratic party plans to continue with things that make my life better. Trump wants to end them and cut taxes on people that make more in a year and I will in 15. There is no reason for me to vote for that man. Zero. Even without all the xenophobic bullshit, he offers me literally nothing. There is no reason for me to vote for him. So basically you are mad that he is going to tax people that makes more money than a certain amount? And you are apparently really rich and don't like that? Okay you can live in your "high class" life but the rest of us though, its a different story. ?????? He is going to cut taxes for the rich. ????????? Clearly there is some misunderstanding, state your points more clearly. Trump wants to end them and cut taxes on people that make more in a year and I will in 15 this wasn't particularly ambiguous, you just completely failed to read it Let's make this simple. Trump is going to massively slash taxes, particularly on the rich, while at the same time massively increasing spending on immigration enforcement, the military, the surveillance state, his wall and other vanity projects. This is a recipe for cutting essential services that the poor depend upon to survive while simultaneously increasing the national debt. I'd vote for the rotting corpse of Reagan before I voted for Trump. You do realize that 65%+ of the budget is spent on social security, health, and interest payments? Outside of military spending, everything else is a drop in the ocean. He can raise the budget on everything if he somehow restructures healthcare like he wants to. He's also been critical of military spending, despite saying he wants a better/stronger military, which people I guess automatically take as a synonym for spending more money.
He had literally said he wants a bunch more planes, ships, and soldiers. You think that shit is free?
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On September 20 2016 05:28 RealityIsKing wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2016 05:23 zlefin wrote:On September 20 2016 05:19 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 20 2016 05:17 zlefin wrote:On September 20 2016 04:53 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 20 2016 04:52 zlefin wrote:On September 20 2016 04:49 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 20 2016 04:46 ZasZ. wrote:On September 20 2016 04:37 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 20 2016 04:35 TheYango wrote:
Generally politicians fuck things up more than they say they will, not less. I don't know where this blind optimism that Trump will be better than his rhetoric portrays comes from. What about Hillary though? She have more chance of not following up than Trump. At least with Trump on the helm, he doesn't have as much favors to pay for since they are funded differently. I don't see a functional difference between a business as usual politician, like Hillary, who is at least partially beholden to special interests, and Donald Trump, who is beholden only to his giant ego. I have to wonder what people have been smoking if they think Donald Trump is some sort of patriot or American hero. He is a powerful man who wants to become the most powerful man, nothing more and nothing less. Well right now, Trump is doing the right thing for Americans and if he can follow it, then great. And let's be honest, congress have the power to stop wars so let's face it, any president's power is severely limited in that regard and Trump knows this. Trump isn't really doing the right thing for america or americans, and there's ample evidence of harm. Spreading massive amounts of lies isn't really a positive thing; nor is encouraging the breaking of one's word. Saying there is ample of evidence without stating a single one. Can we not fear monger? I didn't think it was necessary, by now everyone is familiar with the cases, and has either accepted them, or deny that they qualify as an instance of such. though maybe as I haven't seen you around as much, you haven't already been through the whole song n dance routine 20 times over these issues. which one(s) do you want an example of? and i'm not fear mongering; nowhere near fearmongering, though Trump does do a fair bit of fear mongering (do you dispute that?) I think the beauty of what Trump does is that he know how to use the language really well. Everything he says can be interpreted in one way or another. vagueness has its uses; as does precision. But it leads to a problem where people disagree on what someone meant, especially if the original does not clarify. It's also not THAT impressive, as plenty of people can say vague stuff, and rely on known splits in how it will be perceived to say different things by using the same words. Vagueness used to unite people can have some value, but the size of the group he's uniting is much too small for it to properly have that value. Since you chose to reply without actually stating what you wanted examples of, I'll assume you don't need examples. You can state them at your own pleasure. What I'm saying is that Trump is not stupid at all as some people here like to claim. He is very sly in what he says and I think that under him, America would be smarter nation.
As another poster said; it's not a question of IQ, but of knowledge and understanding of the relevant policy issues; I also have to go by what he says, and there are limits to how far I can interpret his statements as implying far more knowledge. And he has repeatedly shown a poor understanding of the issues and limitations on actual addressing of issues.
As to damage, the damage done by his remarks on potentially not defending NATO allies, as well as openly calling for the commission of war crimes. both of those damaged the US.
You may believe America would be smarter, but there is no real foundation for such belief; there are no shortage of sly people in the US, and plenty employed in the government. No real evidence that Trump will add anything not already available.
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On September 20 2016 05:49 RealityIsKing wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2016 05:30 KwarK wrote:On September 20 2016 04:23 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 20 2016 04:17 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2016 04:09 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 20 2016 03:58 Plansix wrote:
The reasons I dislike him are unchanged. He is still uninformed, deeply stupid and a man-baby that is unfit for office. Even if I ignore all the populist non-sense, he is still a garbage candidate due to his lack of knowledge and complete distain for people with knowledge. I don't think he is uninformed though. Yes, he is tough on immigration but that's due to all those reported incidence from Europe and of course 911. Yes, he is right that illegal immigrants needs to turn up and sign up for legal residency and whoever that isn't qualified needs to be kicked out. That's actually really anti corporate and would grant the one that deserves it minimum wage and other social benefit. He is doing a lot of goods for the people. The only people that hates on him are masochist, they know that there are some undeserved illegals here and of course they do exist. Yeah, I disagree on every level. He shows a basic lack of understanding on most international issues. His plan to make Mexico pay for the wall was comical at best, tragically uninformed at worst. His talk about dealing with ISIS can be described as that of a middle school play ground bully or child attempting to sound tough. His distain for the press, political process and judicial system have been evident throughout this election. He is the very definition of the person I never want to see elected, a self aggrandizing blow hard who hates people who better informed than him. And he surrounds himself with yes-men and people who are willing to ride his coat tails for their own personal gain. I got through George W Bush. I’m not doing it again, especially with someone even dumber than Bush. And somehow worse at public speaking. He is not ACTUALLY thinking that Mexico will pay for the wall? Are you THIS naive for real? I don't believe that you are. Its an intimidating tactics, his point is that Mexico is getting the better deal out of the US-Mexico relationship. So he wants to set new tone with Mexico and the quickest way to get Mexico's attention is to go an outrageous deal then to negotiate afterward. You are definitely not thinking out of the box here. It's pretty amusing to me that Trump supporters have to try so hard to change what Trump literally said in plain and unambiguous terms to be something more palatable. Especially when they ask him and he goes "nope, I literally meant what I said". Trump really is saying that he will get Mexico to write him a check for the wall. That's the plan. You might think "surely that cannot be the plan, that'd be really stupid" but it is the plan. That's where we are right now. Trump, on several occasions say that he changes his plans accordingly on national television. He have the potential to squeeze more benefits to the American in 4 years than Hillary, that's for sure.
If we are going to make completely unqualified claims with no evidence behind them as a response, Trump will do terrible things and ruin peoples lives, all while running up a massive debt and funneling billions of pay for play funds into company.
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On September 20 2016 05:49 On_Slaught wrote:
There was this hilarious NPR story this morning citing a bunch of economic organizations who pointed out that trumps economic plan of isolationism actually hurts the working-class voters who are supporting him the most. Combine this with Trump's continuing destruction of the Republican Party, and range of liberal policies he spouts, I have to ask if weve ever seen a voter base voting against their own interest as blatantly As Trump supporters are?
The man said he will create 25 million well paying jobs and 4% growth and people believe him. He doesn’t really provide a plan to magically make that happen, but that doesn’t matter.
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On September 20 2016 05:50 On_Slaught wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2016 05:46 oBlade wrote:On September 20 2016 05:42 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 05:39 KwarK wrote:On September 20 2016 05:30 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 20 2016 05:25 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2016 05:06 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 20 2016 05:04 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2016 05:00 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 20 2016 04:58 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
Trump sucks. He is a terrible candidate. He is a two bit con-artist with a long history of defrauding people, which did not stop during this election. People who claim he is going to be this transformative force for good and change can believe what they want, but I’m going to call them naïve. Okay but that's still a better candidate than Hillary though. At least Trump is planning on doing more for Americans than her. No. He isn't. Straight up. Hilary and the democratic party plans to continue with things that make my life better. Trump wants to end them and cut taxes on people that make more in a year and I will in 15. There is no reason for me to vote for that man. Zero. Even without all the xenophobic bullshit, he offers me literally nothing. There is no reason for me to vote for him. So basically you are mad that he is going to tax people that makes more money than a certain amount? And you are apparently really rich and don't like that? Okay you can live in your "high class" life but the rest of us though, its a different story. ?????? He is going to cut taxes for the rich. ????????? Clearly there is some misunderstanding, state your points more clearly. Trump wants to end them and cut taxes on people that make more in a year and I will in 15 this wasn't particularly ambiguous, you just completely failed to read it Let's make this simple. Trump is going to massively slash taxes, particularly on the rich, while at the same time massively increasing spending on immigration enforcement, the military, the surveillance state, his wall and other vanity projects. This is a recipe for cutting essential services that the poor depend upon to survive while simultaneously increasing the national debt. I'd vote for the rotting corpse of Reagan before I voted for Trump. You do realize that 65%+ of the budget is spent on social security, health, and interest payments? Outside of military spending, everything else is a drop in the ocean. He can raise the budget on everything if he somehow restructures healthcare like he wants to. He's also been critical of military spending, despite saying he wants a better/stronger military, which people I guess automatically take as a synonym for spending more money. He had literally said he wants a bunch more planes, ships, and soldiers. You think that shit is free?
The hundreds of billions of dollars spent annually in the defense budget now aren't being spent on stationery.
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On September 20 2016 05:49 On_Slaught wrote:
There was this hilarious NPR story this morning citing a bunch of economic organizations who pointed out that trumps economic plan of isolationism actually hurts the working-class voters who are supporting him the most. Combine this with Trump's continuing destruction of the Republican Party, and range of liberal policies he spouts, I have to ask if weve ever seen a voter base voting against their own interest as blatantly As Trump supporters are?
Isn't that normally the odd issue with minorities and poor people who vote for Republicans? They tend to vote against their own interests, especially with regards to social and economic policies?
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On September 20 2016 05:50 On_Slaught wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2016 05:46 oBlade wrote:On September 20 2016 05:42 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 05:39 KwarK wrote:On September 20 2016 05:30 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 20 2016 05:25 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2016 05:06 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 20 2016 05:04 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2016 05:00 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 20 2016 04:58 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
Trump sucks. He is a terrible candidate. He is a two bit con-artist with a long history of defrauding people, which did not stop during this election. People who claim he is going to be this transformative force for good and change can believe what they want, but I’m going to call them naïve. Okay but that's still a better candidate than Hillary though. At least Trump is planning on doing more for Americans than her. No. He isn't. Straight up. Hilary and the democratic party plans to continue with things that make my life better. Trump wants to end them and cut taxes on people that make more in a year and I will in 15. There is no reason for me to vote for that man. Zero. Even without all the xenophobic bullshit, he offers me literally nothing. There is no reason for me to vote for him. So basically you are mad that he is going to tax people that makes more money than a certain amount? And you are apparently really rich and don't like that? Okay you can live in your "high class" life but the rest of us though, its a different story. ?????? He is going to cut taxes for the rich. ????????? Clearly there is some misunderstanding, state your points more clearly. Trump wants to end them and cut taxes on people that make more in a year and I will in 15 this wasn't particularly ambiguous, you just completely failed to read it Let's make this simple. Trump is going to massively slash taxes, particularly on the rich, while at the same time massively increasing spending on immigration enforcement, the military, the surveillance state, his wall and other vanity projects. This is a recipe for cutting essential services that the poor depend upon to survive while simultaneously increasing the national debt. I'd vote for the rotting corpse of Reagan before I voted for Trump. You do realize that 65%+ of the budget is spent on social security, health, and interest payments? Outside of military spending, everything else is a drop in the ocean. He can raise the budget on everything if he somehow restructures healthcare like he wants to. He's also been critical of military spending, despite saying he wants a better/stronger military, which people I guess automatically take as a synonym for spending more money. He had literally said he wants a bunch more planes, ships, and soldiers. You think that shit is free?
He wants to lift the defense sequester cuts to spend less /s
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On September 20 2016 05:55 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2016 05:50 On_Slaught wrote:On September 20 2016 05:46 oBlade wrote:On September 20 2016 05:42 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 05:39 KwarK wrote:On September 20 2016 05:30 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 20 2016 05:25 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2016 05:06 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 20 2016 05:04 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2016 05:00 RealityIsKing wrote:
[quote]
Okay but that's still a better candidate than Hillary though.
At least Trump is planning on doing more for Americans than her. No. He isn't. Straight up. Hilary and the democratic party plans to continue with things that make my life better. Trump wants to end them and cut taxes on people that make more in a year and I will in 15. There is no reason for me to vote for that man. Zero. Even without all the xenophobic bullshit, he offers me literally nothing. There is no reason for me to vote for him. So basically you are mad that he is going to tax people that makes more money than a certain amount? And you are apparently really rich and don't like that? Okay you can live in your "high class" life but the rest of us though, its a different story. ?????? He is going to cut taxes for the rich. ????????? Clearly there is some misunderstanding, state your points more clearly. Trump wants to end them and cut taxes on people that make more in a year and I will in 15 this wasn't particularly ambiguous, you just completely failed to read it Let's make this simple. Trump is going to massively slash taxes, particularly on the rich, while at the same time massively increasing spending on immigration enforcement, the military, the surveillance state, his wall and other vanity projects. This is a recipe for cutting essential services that the poor depend upon to survive while simultaneously increasing the national debt. I'd vote for the rotting corpse of Reagan before I voted for Trump. You do realize that 65%+ of the budget is spent on social security, health, and interest payments? Outside of military spending, everything else is a drop in the ocean. He can raise the budget on everything if he somehow restructures healthcare like he wants to. He's also been critical of military spending, despite saying he wants a better/stronger military, which people I guess automatically take as a synonym for spending more money. He had literally said he wants a bunch more planes, ships, and soldiers. You think that shit is free? The hundreds of billions of dollars spent annually in the defense budget now aren't being spent on stationery.
Before he talks about the military he might want to brush up on how many planes/ships/tanks etc we actually have.
The guy is not one for details.
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On September 20 2016 05:55 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2016 05:50 On_Slaught wrote:On September 20 2016 05:46 oBlade wrote:On September 20 2016 05:42 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 05:39 KwarK wrote:On September 20 2016 05:30 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 20 2016 05:25 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2016 05:06 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 20 2016 05:04 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2016 05:00 RealityIsKing wrote:
[quote]
Okay but that's still a better candidate than Hillary though.
At least Drumpf is planning on doing more for Americans than her. No. He isn't. Straight up. Hilary and the democratic party plans to continue with things that make my life better. Drumpf wants to end them and cut taxes on people that make more in a year and I will in 15. There is no reason for me to vote for that man. Zero. Even without all the xenophobic bullshit, he offers me literally nothing. There is no reason for me to vote for him. So basically you are mad that he is going to tax people that makes more money than a certain amount? And you are apparently really rich and don't like that? Okay you can live in your "high class" life but the rest of us though, its a different story. ?????? He is going to cut taxes for the rich. ????????? Clearly there is some misunderstanding, state your points more clearly. Drumpf wants to end them and cut taxes on people that make more in a year and I will in 15 this wasn't particularly ambiguous, you just completely failed to read it Let's make this simple. Drumpf is going to massively slash taxes, particularly on the rich, while at the same time massively increasing spending on immigration enforcement, the military, the surveillance state, his wall and other vanity projects. This is a recipe for cutting essential services that the poor depend upon to survive while simultaneously increasing the national debt. I'd vote for the rotting corpse of Reagan before I voted for Drumpf. You do realize that 65%+ of the budget is spent on social security, health, and interest payments? Outside of military spending, everything else is a drop in the ocean. He can raise the budget on everything if he somehow restructures healthcare like he wants to. He's also been critical of military spending, despite saying he wants a better/stronger military, which people I guess automatically take as a synonym for spending more money. He had literally said he wants a bunch more planes, ships, and soldiers. You think that shit is free? The hundreds of billions of dollars spent annually in the defense budget now aren't being spent on stationery.
yes but they arent really being spent on making more planes ships and recruiting more soldiers either. You would need alot more hundreds of billions. Most of the budget goes into maintaining and running the millitary apparatus.
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On September 20 2016 05:49 RealityIsKing wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2016 05:30 KwarK wrote:On September 20 2016 04:23 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 20 2016 04:17 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2016 04:09 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 20 2016 03:58 Plansix wrote:
The reasons I dislike him are unchanged. He is still uninformed, deeply stupid and a man-baby that is unfit for office. Even if I ignore all the populist non-sense, he is still a garbage candidate due to his lack of knowledge and complete distain for people with knowledge. I don't think he is uninformed though. Yes, he is tough on immigration but that's due to all those reported incidence from Europe and of course 911. Yes, he is right that illegal immigrants needs to turn up and sign up for legal residency and whoever that isn't qualified needs to be kicked out. That's actually really anti corporate and would grant the one that deserves it minimum wage and other social benefit. He is doing a lot of goods for the people. The only people that hates on him are masochist, they know that there are some undeserved illegals here and of course they do exist. Yeah, I disagree on every level. He shows a basic lack of understanding on most international issues. His plan to make Mexico pay for the wall was comical at best, tragically uninformed at worst. His talk about dealing with ISIS can be described as that of a middle school play ground bully or child attempting to sound tough. His distain for the press, political process and judicial system have been evident throughout this election. He is the very definition of the person I never want to see elected, a self aggrandizing blow hard who hates people who better informed than him. And he surrounds himself with yes-men and people who are willing to ride his coat tails for their own personal gain. I got through George W Bush. I’m not doing it again, especially with someone even dumber than Bush. And somehow worse at public speaking. He is not ACTUALLY thinking that Mexico will pay for the wall? Are you THIS naive for real? I don't believe that you are. Its an intimidating tactics, his point is that Mexico is getting the better deal out of the US-Mexico relationship. So he wants to set new tone with Mexico and the quickest way to get Mexico's attention is to go an outrageous deal then to negotiate afterward. You are definitely not thinking out of the box here. It's pretty amusing to me that Trump supporters have to try so hard to change what Trump literally said in plain and unambiguous terms to be something more palatable. Especially when they ask him and he goes "nope, I literally meant what I said". Trump really is saying that he will get Mexico to write him a check for the wall. That's the plan. You might think "surely that cannot be the plan, that'd be really stupid" but it is the plan. That's where we are right now. Trump, on several occasions say that he changes his plans accordingly on national television. He have the potential to squeeze more benefits to the American in 4 years than Hillary, that's for sure.
Absolutely not. Hillary already has a strong rapport internationally, and the rest of the world (minus, say, Russia and North Korea for obvious reasons) have absolutely no idea why or how this race is even remotely close. Hillary knows how to be diplomatic and work with other nations to get stuff done, because she's done it for years. She is respected globally. On the other hand, Trump is tactless and feckless and all he does is marginalize groups of people. He won't get shit done because he doesn't know how to act professionally. He'll push our allies away and make more enemies.
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On September 20 2016 05:50 On_Slaught wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2016 05:46 oBlade wrote:On September 20 2016 05:42 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 05:39 KwarK wrote:On September 20 2016 05:30 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 20 2016 05:25 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2016 05:06 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 20 2016 05:04 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2016 05:00 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 20 2016 04:58 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
Trump sucks. He is a terrible candidate. He is a two bit con-artist with a long history of defrauding people, which did not stop during this election. People who claim he is going to be this transformative force for good and change can believe what they want, but I’m going to call them naïve. Okay but that's still a better candidate than Hillary though. At least Trump is planning on doing more for Americans than her. No. He isn't. Straight up. Hilary and the democratic party plans to continue with things that make my life better. Trump wants to end them and cut taxes on people that make more in a year and I will in 15. There is no reason for me to vote for that man. Zero. Even without all the xenophobic bullshit, he offers me literally nothing. There is no reason for me to vote for him. So basically you are mad that he is going to tax people that makes more money than a certain amount? And you are apparently really rich and don't like that? Okay you can live in your "high class" life but the rest of us though, its a different story. ?????? He is going to cut taxes for the rich. ????????? Clearly there is some misunderstanding, state your points more clearly. Trump wants to end them and cut taxes on people that make more in a year and I will in 15 this wasn't particularly ambiguous, you just completely failed to read it Let's make this simple. Trump is going to massively slash taxes, particularly on the rich, while at the same time massively increasing spending on immigration enforcement, the military, the surveillance state, his wall and other vanity projects. This is a recipe for cutting essential services that the poor depend upon to survive while simultaneously increasing the national debt. I'd vote for the rotting corpse of Reagan before I voted for Trump. You do realize that 65%+ of the budget is spent on social security, health, and interest payments? Outside of military spending, everything else is a drop in the ocean. He can raise the budget on everything if he somehow restructures healthcare like he wants to. He's also been critical of military spending, despite saying he wants a better/stronger military, which people I guess automatically take as a synonym for spending more money. He had literally said he wants a bunch more planes, ships, and soldiers. You think that shit is free?
Notably, the numbers he quoted after saying he wanted a bigger, better, more formidable military are actually lower than the current numbers of planes, ships, and soldiers we have.
(add another point to the mental uninformed tally, please, thread)
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On September 20 2016 05:50 On_Slaught wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2016 05:46 oBlade wrote:On September 20 2016 05:42 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 20 2016 05:39 KwarK wrote:On September 20 2016 05:30 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 20 2016 05:25 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2016 05:06 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 20 2016 05:04 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2016 05:00 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 20 2016 04:58 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
Trump sucks. He is a terrible candidate. He is a two bit con-artist with a long history of defrauding people, which did not stop during this election. People who claim he is going to be this transformative force for good and change can believe what they want, but I’m going to call them naïve. Okay but that's still a better candidate than Hillary though. At least Trump is planning on doing more for Americans than her. No. He isn't. Straight up. Hilary and the democratic party plans to continue with things that make my life better. Trump wants to end them and cut taxes on people that make more in a year and I will in 15. There is no reason for me to vote for that man. Zero. Even without all the xenophobic bullshit, he offers me literally nothing. There is no reason for me to vote for him. So basically you are mad that he is going to tax people that makes more money than a certain amount? And you are apparently really rich and don't like that? Okay you can live in your "high class" life but the rest of us though, its a different story. ?????? He is going to cut taxes for the rich. ????????? Clearly there is some misunderstanding, state your points more clearly. Trump wants to end them and cut taxes on people that make more in a year and I will in 15 this wasn't particularly ambiguous, you just completely failed to read it Let's make this simple. Trump is going to massively slash taxes, particularly on the rich, while at the same time massively increasing spending on immigration enforcement, the military, the surveillance state, his wall and other vanity projects. This is a recipe for cutting essential services that the poor depend upon to survive while simultaneously increasing the national debt. I'd vote for the rotting corpse of Reagan before I voted for Trump. You do realize that 65%+ of the budget is spent on social security, health, and interest payments? Outside of military spending, everything else is a drop in the ocean. He can raise the budget on everything if he somehow restructures healthcare like he wants to. He's also been critical of military spending, despite saying he wants a better/stronger military, which people I guess automatically take as a synonym for spending more money. He had literally said he wants a bunch more planes, ships, and soldiers. You think that shit is free?
The two parts of the US spending system that are COMPLETELY and UTTERLY fucked up are:
-Healthcare spending
-Military spending
It completely screws us over too, since our average doctors back home are making $300,000 a year which is a very respectable salary back home for 3 + 2 + 2 + 2 years of education, where 4 of those years you're making $60,000 a year.
One of my girlfriends cousins moved to the US and she's making $4,000,000USD a year as a dermatologists, wtf. And then the silly doctor unions here will be like well we have to pay our doctors more since they'll all leave to the US.
Not only that, but you have a completely for profit healthcare system, and all Obamacare/ACA does is try to subsidize these huge costs instead of try to lower these costs.
The US pays 17% of all its GDP on healthcare, we pay 10% in Canada... Our healthcare system is better for 99% of the population than for what you guys have in the US. If it wasn't for the US, we would be paying 7-8% of our GDP on healthcare. Our healthcare costs are only going to go up once TPP rolls out. You guys need a complete restructuring because you pay more for less.
Military spending is also insanely messed up, and the budget doesn't tell the whole story, because wars and other things are not included, that's in some other spending category, and hence why your actual spending and your actual budget never line up at all. In the current system the US throws out all economics out the window in the military and just buy whatever Lockheed or one of the other large military suppliers says you need, it's bogus. There's no competition in the market, and you guys pay up the butt for your stuff. Fix that, and get others to bear some of your military costs, and you'll be golden.
So yeah, you pay 600 billion a year for your military, or 3.5% of your GDP on military upkeep, and then add another 2-5% of GDP depending on how many military campaigns you have.
The US has more or less achieved nothing in Syria so far, and you've already spent 300 billion on it... Studies suggest it'll cost 1.3 trillion by 2020 if it keeps going this way. And this is only for the one conflict. This is all due to a poorly planned system, and poor economic planning in terms of how money for the military is allocated.
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United States42685 Posts
Trump literally went with the line "well we'll probably actually defend our NATO allies if it comes to it but we want to make the world think that we won't so they'll pay their fair share".
Now there are four possible ways this could go. Two public pre-crisis stances and two post-crisis outcomes. You could publicly stand behind NATO allies or you could publicly doubt NATO before a crisis. And then during a crisis you could either defend allies or you could not. If we make a quick game theory square to express the possible results of bluffing here it'll look like this.
Outcomes - Stances-> Will always defend NATO allies -------------- May not defend NATO allies
Defend them ------ NATO is not challenged, not necessary --- Putin starts some shit with Estonia, Trump intervenes, WW3
It was a bluff ------ Bluff is not called ----------------------------------- Putin starts some shit with Estonia, NATO dead
Trump is literally advocating the top right box here. The point of NATO is that the promise of a collective response creates a deterrent so powerful it'll never be challenged. It doesn't matter whether or not you'll actually go to war for Estonia, as long as everyone thinks you will you're golden. But Trump actively undermines that claiming that he doesn't know if he'll follow through on American treaty obligations if he's commander in chief. And in doing so he encourages enemies to test the limits of NATO. And people call him out on how utterly stupid he's being by saying "maybe I won't defend them" at which point he goes "no, but really, I will, I just want to make people think I won't" which makes the whole clusterfuck worse.
He just runs his mouth off on shit he has no understanding of in an attempt to sound tough to the stupidest portion of the American population to whom "yeah, they're taking advantage of American hegemonic global peace, let's take that away and see how they like it" sounds like a good idea.
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EPT
