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On August 26 2016 11:32 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2016 11:29 xDaunt wrote:
I don't know anything on this matter. Like I said earlier, I suspect that most people who hate on Milo don't even really understand him (or they deliberately misrepresent him). But, I am making an effort to confirm those suspicions before unfairly maligning anyone around here. As I said, if someone acts like an asshole, why does it matter what their ideology is and what I think of it? I feel like if someone acts like an asshole, I'm within my right to dislike them for being an asshole. Civility goes a long way toward making people listen to what you actually have to say. But for whatever reason, there's people on all sides of the political spectrum who think being a total jerk to people is cool and would rather people interact that way rather than just treating people like people.
Because ideas matter and are important apart from personality. And in Milo's case, the comments and criticisms that I'm seeing about him aren't limited to personality, so I'm asking for some details to get to the root of the issue. As far as I am concerned, the silence that I'm getting in response is highly telling.
But whatever. I'm not surprised that y'all won't provide a real answer. We'll try again another day to get y'all to say something interesting.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
God damn, 3-4 pages of just pure snark. Kind of discussion-killing in high doses.
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On August 26 2016 11:59 LegalLord wrote:
God damn, 3-4 pages of just pure snark. Kind of discussion-killing in high doses.
I tried my best to get something going.
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On August 26 2016 11:53 xDaunt wrote:
Because ideas matter and are important apart from personality.
I judge ideas based on ideas. I judge people based on people.
I'm not going to think less of a person I like just because we disagree on some ideas. And likewise if someone's a complete asshole, him having ideas I agree with wouldn't make him any less of an asshole. He doesn't get a "free pass" on being an asshole just because he raised interesting ideas.
If you want to talk about the ideas, talk about them. Milo is a poor ambassador for the ideas he represents.
On August 26 2016 11:53 xDaunt wrote:
And in Milo's case, the comments and criticisms that I'm seeing about him aren't limited to personality, so I'm asking for some details to get to the root of the issue.
Might be true for others, but as far as I'm concerned, I tune him out before it gets to that point.
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Dunno if it came up yet in this thread, but Trump seems to have screwed up the ballot process in Minnesota. He has until Monday, but apparently it'll be hard to scrabble something together in time.
That said, he'll probably get slapped on the ballot anyway. More fuel for the incompetence fire, though.
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On August 26 2016 12:00 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2016 11:53 xDaunt wrote:
Because ideas matter and are important apart from personality. I judge ideas based on ideas. I judge people based on people. I'm not going to think less of a person I like just because we disagree on some ideas. And likewise if someone's a complete asshole, him having ideas I agree with wouldn't make him any less of an asshole. He doesn't get a "free pass" on being an asshole just because he raised interesting ideas. If you want to talk about the ideas, talk about them. Milo is a poor ambassador for the ideas he represents.
My God, what do you think that I'm trying to do? I don't think that you could cockblock the interesting conversation to be had any harder if you tried.
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On August 26 2016 12:01 TheTenthDoc wrote:Dunno if it came up yet in this thread, but Trump seems to have screwed up the ballot process in Minnesota. He has until Monday, but apparently it'll be hard to scrabble something together in time. That said, he'll probably get slapped on the ballot anyway. More fuel for the incompetence fire, though.
To be fair he's got no chance of winning the state so it's not like it changes much. He finished third in the state behind Rubio and Cruz. All republican candidates COMBINED had less votes than Bernie alone in the state. But it is a humorous screw up.
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On August 26 2016 12:04 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2016 12:00 TheYango wrote:On August 26 2016 11:53 xDaunt wrote:
Because ideas matter and are important apart from personality. I judge ideas based on ideas. I judge people based on people. I'm not going to think less of a person I like just because we disagree on some ideas. And likewise if someone's a complete asshole, him having ideas I agree with wouldn't make him any less of an asshole. He doesn't get a "free pass" on being an asshole just because he raised interesting ideas. If you want to talk about the ideas, talk about them. Milo is a poor ambassador for the ideas he represents. My God, what do you think that I'm trying to do? I don't think that you could cockblock the interesting conversation to be had any harder if you tried.
You might as well ask him to discussion the world views of Ann Coulter, which are mercurial, but always point to the further enrichment of Ann Coulter. But really you are asking him to discuss the views of a pile of poop and why the opinions of poop piles might hold value.
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On August 26 2016 11:53 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2016 11:32 TheYango wrote:On August 26 2016 11:29 xDaunt wrote:
I don't know anything on this matter. Like I said earlier, I suspect that most people who hate on Milo don't even really understand him (or they deliberately misrepresent him). But, I am making an effort to confirm those suspicions before unfairly maligning anyone around here. As I said, if someone acts like an asshole, why does it matter what their ideology is and what I think of it? I feel like if someone acts like an asshole, I'm within my right to dislike them for being an asshole. Civility goes a long way toward making people listen to what you actually have to say. But for whatever reason, there's people on all sides of the political spectrum who think being a total jerk to people is cool and would rather people interact that way rather than just treating people like people. Because ideas matter and are important apart from personality. And in Milo's case, the comments and criticisms that I'm seeing about him aren't limited to personality, so I'm asking for some details to get to the root of the issue. As far as I am concerned, the silence that I'm getting in response is highly telling. But whatever. I'm not surprised that y'all won't provide a real answer. We'll try again another day to get y'all to say something interesting.
I don't know anything about this Milo person, never even heard of him.
If you'd like to have a discussion about such things, can you point to some ideas or arguments from him that you believe to have positive merit, and we can discuss those?
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On August 26 2016 12:24 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2016 12:04 xDaunt wrote:On August 26 2016 12:00 TheYango wrote:On August 26 2016 11:53 xDaunt wrote:
Because ideas matter and are important apart from personality. I judge ideas based on ideas. I judge people based on people. I'm not going to think less of a person I like just because we disagree on some ideas. And likewise if someone's a complete asshole, him having ideas I agree with wouldn't make him any less of an asshole. He doesn't get a "free pass" on being an asshole just because he raised interesting ideas. If you want to talk about the ideas, talk about them. Milo is a poor ambassador for the ideas he represents. My God, what do you think that I'm trying to do? I don't think that you could cockblock the interesting conversation to be had any harder if you tried. You might as well ask him to discussion the world views of Ann Coulter, which are mercurial, but always point to the further enrichment of Ann Coulter. But really you are asking him to discuss the views of a pile of poop and why the opinions of poop piles might hold value.
Ye Milo is basically you in this forum.
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On August 26 2016 13:14 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2016 11:53 xDaunt wrote:On August 26 2016 11:32 TheYango wrote:On August 26 2016 11:29 xDaunt wrote:
I don't know anything on this matter. Like I said earlier, I suspect that most people who hate on Milo don't even really understand him (or they deliberately misrepresent him). But, I am making an effort to confirm those suspicions before unfairly maligning anyone around here. As I said, if someone acts like an asshole, why does it matter what their ideology is and what I think of it? I feel like if someone acts like an asshole, I'm within my right to dislike them for being an asshole. Civility goes a long way toward making people listen to what you actually have to say. But for whatever reason, there's people on all sides of the political spectrum who think being a total jerk to people is cool and would rather people interact that way rather than just treating people like people. Because ideas matter and are important apart from personality. And in Milo's case, the comments and criticisms that I'm seeing about him aren't limited to personality, so I'm asking for some details to get to the root of the issue. As far as I am concerned, the silence that I'm getting in response is highly telling. But whatever. I'm not surprised that y'all won't provide a real answer. We'll try again another day to get y'all to say something interesting. I don't know anything about this Milo person, never even heard of him. If you'd like to have a discussion about such things, can you point to some ideas or arguments from him that you believe to have positive merit, and we can discuss those?
some of his ideas:
wage gap is a myth
rape culture is a myth
correlation between rise of feminism and unhappy women
islamic values not compatible with gay rights
ghostbusters 2016 sucked
Interviews with Dave Rubin
+ Show Spoiler +
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On August 26 2016 14:46 CorsairHero wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2016 13:14 Aquanim wrote:On August 26 2016 11:53 xDaunt wrote:On August 26 2016 11:32 TheYango wrote:On August 26 2016 11:29 xDaunt wrote:
I don't know anything on this matter. Like I said earlier, I suspect that most people who hate on Milo don't even really understand him (or they deliberately misrepresent him). But, I am making an effort to confirm those suspicions before unfairly maligning anyone around here. As I said, if someone acts like an asshole, why does it matter what their ideology is and what I think of it? I feel like if someone acts like an asshole, I'm within my right to dislike them for being an asshole. Civility goes a long way toward making people listen to what you actually have to say. But for whatever reason, there's people on all sides of the political spectrum who think being a total jerk to people is cool and would rather people interact that way rather than just treating people like people. Because ideas matter and are important apart from personality. And in Milo's case, the comments and criticisms that I'm seeing about him aren't limited to personality, so I'm asking for some details to get to the root of the issue. As far as I am concerned, the silence that I'm getting in response is highly telling. But whatever. I'm not surprised that y'all won't provide a real answer. We'll try again another day to get y'all to say something interesting. I don't know anything about this Milo person, never even heard of him. If you'd like to have a discussion about such things, can you point to some ideas or arguments from him that you believe to have positive merit, and we can discuss those? some of his ideas: wage gap is a myth rape culture is a myth correlation between rise of feminism and unhappy women islamic values not compatible with gay rights ghostbusters sucked
Interviews with Dave Rubin + Show Spoiler +
The remake I assume, not the original
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Canada11349 Posts
On August 26 2016 11:29 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2016 11:23 Slaughter wrote:
Milo is a very public figure and you know damn well what opinions of his people on the left don't like so why are you asking for them to waste their time to tell you what you already know? I don't know anything on this matter. Like I said earlier, I suspect that most people who hate on Milo don't even really understand him (or they deliberately misrepresent him). But, I am making an effort to confirm those suspicions before unfairly maligning anyone around here.
I would say he makes of habit of defending that which least needs defending and sugar coating some very ugly sentiments.
http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/03/29/an-establishment-conservatives-guide-to-the-alt-right/
He wrote this article on the Alt Right and basically dismissed all the anti-antisemitism and racist garbage floating around as just people being trollish and engaging in harmless fun.
Are they actually bigots? No more than death metal devotees in the 80s were actually Satanists. For them, it’s simply a means to fluster their grandparents.
While he is likely correct that there are people that spread racist screed on the internet for the lulz, I think he is flat out wrong and in fact dangerously wrong because much of it is spread in earnest. I think because Milo's modus operanda is to be a troll, he is blinded and incapable of seeing the racism being fomented within the Alt Right (and indeed the racism directed against him).
Daily Stormer wrote two articles countering Milo "Can't Kike the Alt-Right" and "And When They Came For Milo" that basically said, 'yes we have fun, because why not, but we are serious about the racist stuff and we're on to your Jewish trickery that's trying to derail our cause'. But Milo cannot see that and so feels compelled to defend actual racism. He creates a tame and domesticated version of online racism even though many see him as an intruding Jewish enemy. I think this whitewashing (if you will) of real racism is very, very bad and I don't think he doesn't get a free pass by sleeping with black men. He is clever in his provocations, but the battles he chooses to fight makes him foolish. As a witty fool, he hides and disguises thereby unwittingly defending those who were not fooling.
edit.
I will say, on occasion I can see, within all his verbiage, a whiff of a possibility of a reasonable point (particularly when he's facing down screaming people subsumed by rage). But the point is so buried in a mountain of douchery that it is crushed under the weight of his trollish nature.
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Interesting that Hillary so desires the presidency that's she's willing to (rightfully) separate the 'alt-right' from 'mainstream conservative.'
"Don't worry you guys, you can vote for me." But also gives people more permission to vote for GOP representatives.
Of course her and Democrats talking up previous Republicans that they have torn apart and accused of all sorts of personal ills is amazing, but it works. Using the unique opportunity with Trump and this alt-right thing. They'll go back the racism/sexism shtick next time around too, but this is unique.
All in all however, people really already have their opinions of Hillary. It's all on Trump, barring some amazing Clinton revelation.
Edit: now that I think about it, Obama is similar. Under his watch the down-ticket Democrat party has suffered mightily, but as long as he was president and could to what he wanted...
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Welcome to the 2 Party System.
If one party screws up, the other will and can try to overtake the disenfranchised members of the other party.
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First I've heard of "alt-right"... I wonder how many more labels will be put on Trump and his supporters in the coming months.
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On August 26 2016 16:08 MasterCynical wrote:
First I've heard of "alt-right"... I wonder how many more labels will be put on Trump and his supporters in the coming months.
They themselves coined that term, and use it proudly to refer to themselves on places like the_donald, /pol/, breitbart. It's not analogous to 'regressive left' like someone was suggesting some pages back, it's the vague self-description of a movement.
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Canada11349 Posts
Also, Trump isn't Alt-Right so much as they have adopted him. It either pre-dates him or else developed concurrently, but separately. But a lot of the outrage he gives voice to matches the sort of outrage they express in their own circles. It is certainly a self-describer as they separate themselves from traditional conservatism (hence all that nasty name calling to any conservative considered too much of a pussy, kowtowing to the left.)
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538 described the alt right as good old racism and biggotry with a tech savy flavour. There is nothing really new about the movement except that its members spend their days trolling on the internet.
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Can't wait for the debates.
One of them is being held in Las Vegas. Like really..? 2016 election HYYYYYPE
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EPT
