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On August 26 2016 02:41 Plansix wrote:
The choice between being poisoned or getting shot.
And Hillary is the slight spank ?
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On August 26 2016 02:04 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2016 01:15 hunts wrote:On August 26 2016 01:11 Stratos_speAr wrote:On August 26 2016 01:05 hunts wrote:On August 26 2016 01:02 Stratos_speAr wrote:On August 26 2016 00:50 hunts wrote:On August 25 2016 18:30 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 25 2016 17:41 schaf wrote:On August 25 2016 14:20 GreenHorizons wrote:Aaaannnnd that's why I don't call the cops... How many more shootings is it going to take?
Black Indianapolis man shot by cops after calling police to report robbery
Few cases typify everything that is wrong with gun rights, police brutality and racial profiling like this one.
Early Tuesday in Indianapolis, an African-American woman was being carjacked in front of her home in her working class neighborhood. She ran back in the house, told her husband, who is also black, and they called the police to report the robbery. That seemed to be the right and safe thing to do.
As the police pulled up, the husband, who was later identified as 48-year-old Carl Williams, opened the garage to their home and was immediately shot in the gut by police.
They claim they believed he was the robber and that because he had a firearm of his own, he was shot in self-defense. Officials identified the officer who shot Williams as nine-year veteran cop Christopher Mills.
He, of course, was not the robber. In fact, police have yet to even say if they caught the robber. Since they dusted the car for fingerprints, it appears that the actual man committing a crime got away and the man who wanted to protect his wife and family was instead shot and currently fighting for his own life in the hospital.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/king-black-man-shot-cops-calling-report-robbery-article-1.2762748 As a thought experiment: imagine this article and all others never mention the victim's, the cop's and indeed no other person's race. How many more people would be on the streets or upset in general? Not related: did I use my " 's " correctly? Leaving it blank probably wouldn't change much, as people would just make presumptions based on their prejudices (you can usually tell from the language describing folks too). Can't remember ever hearing about a white guy who calls the cops for help only to be shot by them though. My point is that we should all be outraged that the cops would try to protect incompetent and/or criminal cops. People keep getting lost in thinking about the way people present their argument, just stop and think for a moment how seemingly average people react to the wrongful notion that their 1st amendment is being threatened on a forum, then imagine that not only are the protesters living under crushing poverty (the kind people who complain on forums rarely know) they are also ACTUALLY having their constitutional rights denied Instead of everyone flipping out about millions of Americans being abused and living under the kind of oppression that comes from having your 4th amendment (among others) rights crapped on, people are busy pondering about better approaches to getting white people to care and not hurt their feelings. I know most people here don't appreciate just how twisted and appalling that is, but I'm hoping one day it sinks in. Just wondering, but you are aware that more white people are killed by cops than black people are, and that more black people are killed by other black (non police) people, than they are by cops, right? Why aren't those being protested? I'm all for cops not shooting innocent people, or being able to abuse their power to act like dicks. But in this case, the guy came out with a gun. Yes, he (most likely) legally owned it, and yes it was his own house. But given how many cops have been killed recently, and mostly by black people too, do you not think they would have reason to be alarmed at a black person with a gun coming at them? Especially given that not long ago a black person made a call claiming his car was being robbed, only to ambush and shoot the responding officer? Do you not think that perhaps all of the blacklives matter people calling for police blood and the killing of cops, would make it more likely that a black person with a gun is seen as a threat by the police? Your numbers have been debunked a million times before. Raw numbers ("more whites killed than blacks") don't mean anything because, proportionally, black people are arrested, shot, pulled over, convicted, and sentenced to jail time far, far, far more often than they should be. "black on black crime" is also a lazy argument because anyone of any race is overwhelmingly likely to be killed by a person of their own race; "white on white" crime numbers are the same as "black on black" crime numbers. And no, there is no justification for the cops shooting a man that is legally armed in his own home. If you have the legal authority to execute someone in certain situations, your actions should be held to incredibly high standards. You need to be better at your job under pressure. If he was in his own home, how did the cops that were outside shoot him? He was standing in his garage and opened the garage door. This 1) in his home and 2) even if you want to argue useless semantics, still on his property. It speaks volumes that instead of addressing the numerous points that I debunked, you have to ask a totally irrelevant question. I also think it's sad that, predictably, the NRA won't say shit about defending this man's right to own and handle a gun on his property against tyrannical government when they will routinely do that for any white man that gets accidentally shot by a cop while using a gun. Meh. Normally I would be outraged by this, because cops really need to not be so trigger happy, and need to be held accountable when they are. But with all of the BLM spouting about killing white people and killing cops, and the actual cases of blacks calling the cops and reporting a false crime just to ambush and shoot the cops, I think this guy was just collateral damage caused by the BLM's racist rhetoric which is putting cops in danger, and will make them much more defensive around black people. Cops are in danger from the general public because they keep shooting people they shouldn't
I'd offer that having so many guns everywhere is the major part of why cops are in danger a lot, or feel like they are in danger a lot.
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On August 26 2016 02:44 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2016 02:41 Plansix wrote:
The choice between being poisoned or getting shot. And Hillary is the slight spank ?
Bad pizza. I can deal with bad pizza.
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Trump unambiguously changed his immigration stance in his town hall with Hannity last night. He now will offer legal status to those who have been in the country a long time, so long as they pay back taxes. But he calls it "not amnesty" because he's offering legal status but not citizenship.
Wonder which version of Trump would show up on the day after inauguration? And each day after that?
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Anyone with half a brain knew the "build a wall" bullshit wasn't going last until November anyway. Obviously no one could expect that he was going to pivot THIS hard, but I don't see how the Cruz people have any sort of "I told you so" ground to stand on whatsoever.
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On August 26 2016 02:49 TheYango wrote:
Anyone with half a brain knew the "build a wall" bullshit wasn't going last until November anyway. Obviously no one could expect that he was going to pivot THIS hard, but I don't see how the Cruz people have any sort of "I told you so" ground to stand on whatsoever.
What's stupid is that "the wall" is already there for a big part, except it's a fence.
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Meh I'm certainly not as scared about Trump being president as Cruz.
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This is from the party that has been promising to do things that are only possible of the Democrats cease to exist as a political party. Since the rise of the tea party it’s been feeling before reality. Standing on principle over getting anything done. Someone changing their stance on a policy that was impossible to implement is a greater sin than pushing forward knowing it would fail or not work.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On August 26 2016 02:52 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2016 02:49 TheYango wrote:
Anyone with half a brain knew the "build a wall" bullshit wasn't going last until November anyway. Obviously no one could expect that he was going to pivot THIS hard, but I don't see how the Cruz people have any sort of "I told you so" ground to stand on whatsoever. What's stupid is that "the wall" is already there for a big part, except it's a fence.
I've seen wall enough whenever I went to Mexico. The border control is plenty strong there these days, far more than it was a decade ago. As many have said, most illegals overstayed their visas.
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On August 26 2016 02:53 Plansix wrote:
Standing on principle over getting anything done.
Harping on the fact that "Trump couldn’t be trusted to defend core GOP values" is the epitome of this, but they seem completely out of touch with how few people in the Republican base actually care about "core GOP values" as a monolithic entity. If the Trump people actually cared about that they would have voted for Cruz in the first place, but the fact that they didn't should be indicative of what the actual situation is.
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If they lose the senate, I will enjoy how the whining form Cruz and this ilk once they can no longer hold up every aspect of government without fear. Would be a good time.
Edit: Any movement on the Zika funding? The Republicans still poison pilling that funding bill?
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On August 26 2016 02:57 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2016 02:53 Plansix wrote:
Standing on principle over getting anything done. Harping on the fact that "Trump couldn’t be trusted to defend core GOP values" is the epitome of this, but they seem completely out of touch with how few people in the Republican base actually care about "core GOP values" as a monolithic entity. If the Trump people actually cared about that they would have voted for Cruz in the first place, but the fact that they didn't should be indicative of what the actual situation is.
Exactly, the Republican adherence to a one-dimensional idea of conservatism is why the base of people like Cruz is too narrow for the national level.
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On August 26 2016 02:45 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2016 02:04 Gorsameth wrote:On August 26 2016 01:15 hunts wrote:On August 26 2016 01:11 Stratos_speAr wrote:On August 26 2016 01:05 hunts wrote:On August 26 2016 01:02 Stratos_speAr wrote:On August 26 2016 00:50 hunts wrote:On August 25 2016 18:30 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 25 2016 17:41 schaf wrote:As a thought experiment: imagine this article and all others never mention the victim's, the cop's and indeed no other person's race. How many more people would be on the streets or upset in general? Not related: did I use my " 's " correctly? Leaving it blank probably wouldn't change much, as people would just make presumptions based on their prejudices (you can usually tell from the language describing folks too). Can't remember ever hearing about a white guy who calls the cops for help only to be shot by them though. My point is that we should all be outraged that the cops would try to protect incompetent and/or criminal cops. People keep getting lost in thinking about the way people present their argument, just stop and think for a moment how seemingly average people react to the wrongful notion that their 1st amendment is being threatened on a forum, then imagine that not only are the protesters living under crushing poverty (the kind people who complain on forums rarely know) they are also ACTUALLY having their constitutional rights denied Instead of everyone flipping out about millions of Americans being abused and living under the kind of oppression that comes from having your 4th amendment (among others) rights crapped on, people are busy pondering about better approaches to getting white people to care and not hurt their feelings. I know most people here don't appreciate just how twisted and appalling that is, but I'm hoping one day it sinks in. Just wondering, but you are aware that more white people are killed by cops than black people are, and that more black people are killed by other black (non police) people, than they are by cops, right? Why aren't those being protested? I'm all for cops not shooting innocent people, or being able to abuse their power to act like dicks. But in this case, the guy came out with a gun. Yes, he (most likely) legally owned it, and yes it was his own house. But given how many cops have been killed recently, and mostly by black people too, do you not think they would have reason to be alarmed at a black person with a gun coming at them? Especially given that not long ago a black person made a call claiming his car was being robbed, only to ambush and shoot the responding officer? Do you not think that perhaps all of the blacklives matter people calling for police blood and the killing of cops, would make it more likely that a black person with a gun is seen as a threat by the police? Your numbers have been debunked a million times before. Raw numbers ("more whites killed than blacks") don't mean anything because, proportionally, black people are arrested, shot, pulled over, convicted, and sentenced to jail time far, far, far more often than they should be. "black on black crime" is also a lazy argument because anyone of any race is overwhelmingly likely to be killed by a person of their own race; "white on white" crime numbers are the same as "black on black" crime numbers. And no, there is no justification for the cops shooting a man that is legally armed in his own home. If you have the legal authority to execute someone in certain situations, your actions should be held to incredibly high standards. You need to be better at your job under pressure. If he was in his own home, how did the cops that were outside shoot him? He was standing in his garage and opened the garage door. This 1) in his home and 2) even if you want to argue useless semantics, still on his property. It speaks volumes that instead of addressing the numerous points that I debunked, you have to ask a totally irrelevant question. I also think it's sad that, predictably, the NRA won't say shit about defending this man's right to own and handle a gun on his property against tyrannical government when they will routinely do that for any white man that gets accidentally shot by a cop while using a gun. Meh. Normally I would be outraged by this, because cops really need to not be so trigger happy, and need to be held accountable when they are. But with all of the BLM spouting about killing white people and killing cops, and the actual cases of blacks calling the cops and reporting a false crime just to ambush and shoot the cops, I think this guy was just collateral damage caused by the BLM's racist rhetoric which is putting cops in danger, and will make them much more defensive around black people. Cops are in danger from the general public because they keep shooting people they shouldn't I'd offer that having so many guns everywhere is the major part of why cops are in danger a lot, or feel like they are in danger a lot.
It certainly doesn't help but it is all the more reason to properly train officers to deal with the situation in ways that involve less people getting shot that could have been avoided.
I again remind people that it is harder to get permission to shoot an enemy combatant in a warzone as a soldier then it is to shoot someone as a cop in the US.
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On August 26 2016 02:15 schaf wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2016 01:56 zlefin wrote:
I wonder what, if there is one, the best ratio of cops killing people to cops being killed is; in terms of protecting society, balancing rights, and of course the occasional sad necessities, is. You can't divide by 0  I'm not really sure how one would set up the data. Protecting society = removing threats from it? Change in police behaviour will alter criminal behaviour. If you are getting chased by the cops, have a gun and are sure they will shoot you eventually, you might shoot first. If you believe they will treat you according to your rights, you throw away the gun and maybe give up. Or run faster.
idunno how to setup the data. My impression is that the current ratio is somewhere around 10:1 to 20:1 in the cops favor; which seems high to me. makes me suspect there's room for improvement by aiming for a lower ratio.
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I get it now. If I change the words I use, it doesn't change my meaning.
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I don’t mind people changing their minds. I do mind it when they try to convince me in the worst way possible that they didn’t like I’m really stupid and don’t understand how words work.
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United States41995 Posts
You need to learn to ignore the words and believe with your heart.
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Was Katrina Pierson this stupid before working for the Trump campaign, or do you think she's well aware of the bullshit explanations she's giving and is probably upset that she has to make up so much crap on Trump's behalf?
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she's aware, but this fixation of the words of politicians is amusing. They are the least reliable people who speak for a living. Trump's initial stance was his own, but this pivot is essentially the influence of his new team so he is being molded at this point. If trump could win the election by sticking to his original immigration plan he would have continued with it.
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EPT
