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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
The US justice department is reported to have found evidence of Volkswagen acting criminally in connection with the emissions cheating scandal that plunged the German company into crisis.
Federal prosecutors are weighing up whether to criminally charge VW and its employees or accept a multibillion-dollar settlement, according to the Wall Street Journal. The justice department and VW declined to comment on the discussions, which are said to have a soft deadline of Christmas 2016.
VW has admitted to deliberately cheating on US diesel emissions tests for several years and this summer agreed to pay $15.3bn (£11.8bn) to its customers and regulators.
However, the settlement did not preclude criminal charges, and at the time, deputy attorney general Sally Yates sought to reassure consumers that “our criminal investigation remains active and ongoing”.
“We will follow the facts wherever they go and we will determine whether to bring criminal charges against any companies or individual wrongdoers.”
It is unusual for US authorities to seek a criminal prosecution of companies or executives, with prosecutors tending to accept an admittance of guilt, an apology from the chief executive and multimillion-dollar fines.
In 2014, Toyota paid $1.2bn to settle a criminal investigation into its attempt to mislead the public about a defect that caused unintended acceleration. Last year, General Motors paid $900m to end an investigation into an ignition switch defect, which cut engines and disabled systems such as power steering and airbags, linked to 124 deaths.
Both companies agreed to the appointment of an independent monitor to oversee their safety practices for three years. A similar agreement is likely if prosecutors agree a settlement with VW.
Source
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Looks like Morning Joe got under Trump's skin pretty badly this morning. Once again using a different tone of language criticizing a female than he does with males. But hey it's nbd to make him president, after all he doesn't have the ability as president to lash out at people in damaging ways. This is just his campaign bluster with a touch of media bias! And what have we got to lose with a dice roll???
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"He doesn't hurl personal insults."
- Trump campaign manager, 8/21/16
"@morningmika is off the wall, a neurotic and not very bright mess!"
- Trump, 8/22/16
Can total campaign incompetence occur under a viable president?
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It's not a personal insult, he's just making a keen observation.
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On August 22 2016 14:13 GreenHorizons wrote:
Well the physician is obviously lying, I've seen people in their 70's that are in "excellent health" and they don't constantly need something to sit on or help up stairs and stuff. She's quite obviously not in "excellent health".
That said, I'm not convinced it's anything super serious that would prevent her from serving but please stop with pretending you all can just wave it away with "but her doctor said" and "but it's infowars an /r/thedonald"
Reagan, and Cheney's doctors said they were in excellent health too. Fine if you think Hillary is the best option we have, but can we not pretend that she's in "excellent health" because her doctor said so?
Think Michael Jackson proved you can get doctors to say or do just about anything (like anyone else for enough money).
So if you're point is that we'll never know for sure, why are you even entertaining any possibilities? Your whole point is that we don't have enough information to make any meaningful determinations. Making a judgment on the issue is silly no matter how you look at it.
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On August 22 2016 14:13 GreenHorizons wrote:
Well the physician is obviously lying, I've seen people in their 70's that are in "excellent health" and they don't constantly need something to sit on or help up stairs and stuff. She's quite obviously not in "excellent health".
That said, I'm not convinced it's anything super serious that would prevent her from serving but please stop with pretending you all can just wave it away with "but her doctor said" and "but it's infowars an /r/thedonald"
Reagan, and Cheney's doctors said they were in excellent health too. Fine if you think Hillary is the best option we have, but can we not pretend that she's in "excellent health" because her doctor said so?
Think Michael Jackson proved you can get doctors to say or do just about anything (like anyone else for enough money).
World is full of wonders, now we have a left wing foxbot (you should get a patent for that, it's a winning concept) on our very US politics teamliquid thread. You'll repeat anything as long as it can hurt the campaign of the candidate who voted 93% the same in the last two years than the guy you were soooo into (I guess it's better than right wingers lining up behind Trump even though he is clearly a completely unqualified clown, but I start to understand slowly why the left is always sooo good at losing).
Clinton has been running around for decades with a seemingly endless energy, she has travelled one million miles as Secretary of State, is running an incredibly rough and tiring campaign, and because she needs a chair at one point you deduce (sorry : repeat) that her health is a critical issue. Cuz you know, it seems at that point that it's the main thing we should focus on.
There is absolutely no reason to doubt HC's health. If you know any woman in her 70's who can deploy as much energy without getting tired (let's be clear, that's what we are talking about), let me know ; I don't. The whole thing is just one more really really dumb line of attacks from a sinking campaign. It's designed for right wing people who have recycled this email crap for a year, can't defend the megalomaniac a-hole that represent them anymore, and are out of ammo. Get real, seriously.
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If someone is the SOS, President or high ranking member of congress and claims to be well rested, they are lying or terrible at their job. The job of SOS requires a lot of travel across numerous time zones and that will ruin anyone’s sleep.
And the term “confused” in an email is not that concerning. Government is a large, complex thing that is hard to work in. Confusion is the natural state of anyone working in goverment.
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On August 23 2016 00:34 Plansix wrote:
If someone is the SOS, President or high ranking member of congress and claims to be well rested, they are lying or terrible at their job. The job of SOS requires a lot of travel across numerous time zones and that will ruin anyone’s sleep.
And the term “confused” in an email is not that concerning. Government is a large, complex thing that is hard to work in. Confusion is the natural state of anyone working in goverment.
It was interesting to me to read about how presidents fly an unhealthy amount and do for sure damage their bodies simply by flying so much.
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Really, what has this election cycle done to GH? I mean, he was never very good for discussing things in the first place, but every week it seems like he's devolving more into a conspiracy nut. And telling people to support the Green Party, which is actually like a Fake Moon Landing away from being the Conspiracy Party...
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On August 23 2016 00:42 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Really, what has this election cycle done to GH? I mean, he was never very good for discussing things in the first place, but every week it seems like he's devolving more into a conspiracy nut. And telling people to support the Green Party, which is actually like a Fake Moon Landing away from being the Conspiracy Party...
The effect of seeing something you believe in and watching it fail because the masses don't give a damn.
Everyone deals with their hope being crushed in a different way.
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On August 23 2016 00:42 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Really, what has this election cycle done to GH? I mean, he was never very good for discussing things in the first place, but every week it seems like he's devolving more into a conspiracy nut. And telling people to support the Green Party, which is actually like a Fake Moon Landing away from being the Conspiracy Party...
He's making the same mistake a lot of people in his position make: Thinking he was a part of something special. He felt like "This is it" and was really hyped up as if the newest political blip was something significant. I see it often. People grow up learning about MLK and stuff like that and want to feel like they were a part of something similarly significant. But nope. Really just business as usual and no one is terribly concerned about any modern political movements. Green is still irrelevant. Little civil rights groups are still largely ignored. He wants to see movements he cares about gain momentum and be a part of something big. But it isn't gonna happen, so now it's about cheering against what let him down.
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On August 23 2016 00:23 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2016 14:13 GreenHorizons wrote:
Well the physician is obviously lying, I've seen people in their 70's that are in "excellent health" and they don't constantly need something to sit on or help up stairs and stuff. She's quite obviously not in "excellent health".
That said, I'm not convinced it's anything super serious that would prevent her from serving but please stop with pretending you all can just wave it away with "but her doctor said" and "but it's infowars an /r/thedonald"
Reagan, and Cheney's doctors said they were in excellent health too. Fine if you think Hillary is the best option we have, but can we not pretend that she's in "excellent health" because her doctor said so?
Think Michael Jackson proved you can get doctors to say or do just about anything (like anyone else for enough money). World is full of wonders, now we have a left wing foxbot (you should get a patent for that, it's a winning concept) on our very US politics teamliquid thread. You'll repeat anything as long as it can hurt the campaign of the candidate who voted 93% the same in the last two years than the guy you were soooo into (I guess it's better than right wingers lining up behind Trump even though he is clearly a completely unqualified clown, but I start to understand slowly why the left is always sooo good at losing). Clinton has been running around for decades with a seemingly endless energy, she has travelled one million miles as Secretary of State, is running an incredibly rough and tiring campaign, and because she needs a chair at one point you deduce (sorry : repeat) that her health is a critical issue. Cuz you know, it seems at that point that it's the main thing we should focus on. There is absolutely no reason to doubt HC's health. The whole thing is just one more dumb line of attacks from a sinking campaign. Get real, seriously.
haha. Flying in a private plane with more square footage than $1,000,000 will buy you in Manhattan and about the same as you would get from San Fran is hardly a feat of fitness.
you see a chair at one point
are you serious with this part? I thought it was probably nothing as well, until I noticed that she practically always has a chair, and that she very frequently needs assistance to climb stairs.
There is no sensible way to arrive at the conclusion that she is in excellent health, healthy enough to be president maybe, but "excellent health" is obviously a fabrication or at the very least an exaggeration.
An 80 year old running half/full marathons, they are in excellent health, a 70 year old who needs help up stairs and can't stand for very long is in moderate health or worse.
But like I said and you apparently missed, I don't think there's any reason to think she's too unhealthy to be president, but when people cape for her so hard claiming she's in excellent health and we know because her doctor said so, it makes all the claims from xDaunt, Danglars, and the like about your refusal to admit even the slightest realities when they don't favor HRC look true.
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Let’s not turn this into a public venting session on specific users. I’ve had plenty go of good discussions with GH on a number of topics. This election was rough for people who put their back behind Sanders. I was pretty invested in supporting Obama in his first run and I try to imagine how I would have felt if he lost. I would like to say I would have come around and voted for Clinton that time. But if I am honest with myself, I am not 100% sure I would have. But that was nearly a decade ago.
Forum discussion can be overly clinical at times and its easy to forget there are real humans on the other side of the screen. Except Kwark, he is just a financial management AI that has become aware and wants to yell at us for all our poor investment decisions.
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On August 23 2016 00:51 GreenHorizons wrote:But like I said and you apparently missed, I don't think there's any reason to think she's too unhealthy to be president, but when people cape for her so hard claiming she's in excellent health and we know because her doctor said so, it makes all the claims from xDaunt, Danglars, and the like about your refusal to admit even the slightest realities when they don't favor HRC look true.
I bet the Hillary-defense bots are also programmed to tell us that her poo doesn't stink. I just marvel at the lengths that people go to cover for her. What's particularly amusing in this instance is that people are insisting that she is in "excellent health" rather than conceding that she "has health problems, none of which affect her ability to be president."
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On August 22 2016 14:13 GreenHorizons wrote:
Well the physician is obviously lying, I've seen people in their 70's that are in "excellent health" and they don't constantly need something to sit on or help up stairs and stuff. She's quite obviously not in "excellent health".
That said, I'm not convinced it's anything super serious that would prevent her from serving but please stop with pretending you all can just wave it away with "but her doctor said" and "but it's infowars an /r/thedonald"
Reagan, and Cheney's doctors said they were in excellent health too. Fine if you think Hillary is the best option we have, but can we not pretend that she's in "excellent health" because her doctor said so?
Think Michael Jackson proved you can get doctors to say or do just about anything (like anyone else for enough money).
Who is pretending she is in excellent health? I haven't seen any comments to that effect, and the medical records she released show that she most definitely is not in perfect health.
People are not waving away that she has difficulty climbing stairs. People are waving away the 2 completely baseless claims made by Gotunk and xDaunt that 1) her health is gravely deteriorating and 2) she clearly has a cognitive disorder.
Even the tv celebrity doctor they were more than happy to defer to as the expert opinion based on the Infowars title, specifically said "clearly hasn't affected her cognition" in that clip if they had bothered to look past the title before jumping the gun with their speculations.
You are completely disregarding nuance if the way you read these past few pages is people saying she is in excellent health vs people saying she isn't in perfect health. This discussion was never about eyesight or leg pain.
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On August 23 2016 00:46 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2016 00:42 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Really, what has this election cycle done to GH? I mean, he was never very good for discussing things in the first place, but every week it seems like he's devolving more into a conspiracy nut. And telling people to support the Green Party, which is actually like a Fake Moon Landing away from being the Conspiracy Party... The effect of seeing something you believe in and watching it fail because the masses don't give a damn. Everyone deals with their hope being crushed in a different way.
This comes from the fundamental misunderstanding of what people like me are about.
First the "conspiracy" line has been thrown out enough to render it meaningless as several times things excused as "conspiracy theory" were absolutely true.
Second, what I'm fighting for wasn't crushed, it outperformed every single person here's expectations.
Finally, what we're working toward hasn't stopped or even slowed down, we more than tripled the number of PCO's just in my surrounding districts, hundreds of people who previously weren't really engaged now taking and running for offices.
That there are so many "conservative" style Democrats clinging to an old corrupt and inadequate system because their preferred candidate mastered it's inner workings doesn't surprise me, that so many of them are on a forum like this, does surprise me some.
30 years from now it's not going to be the people who pushed to elect Hillary who will be running things, it will be the people who pushed for Bernie. Hillary and her supporters will be a pockmark on the history of the Democratic party. A signal that many Americans didn't want control of their government, that they willingly handed it over to corporate interests.
She put someone who thinks fracking doesn't harm the environment as the leader of her transition team, Hillary supporters are going to act surprised (or say she had to make that compromise) when she governs like a socially liberal Republican but it's quite literally what she's been showing anyone that cared to look.
The blinding irony for me is if it weren't Hillary, Republicans would be throwing a party for how right leaning the Democratic nominee is, the Democrats would be doing the same if Trump wasn't Trump.
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The first female candidate for presidents strength and stamina is being questioned?
Color me shocked
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On August 23 2016 01:17 PassiveAce wrote:
The first female candidate for presidents strength and stamina is being questioned?
Color me shocked
It would be sexist if it wasn't.
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United States43526 Posts
On August 23 2016 01:14 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2016 00:46 Gorsameth wrote:On August 23 2016 00:42 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Really, what has this election cycle done to GH? I mean, he was never very good for discussing things in the first place, but every week it seems like he's devolving more into a conspiracy nut. And telling people to support the Green Party, which is actually like a Fake Moon Landing away from being the Conspiracy Party... The effect of seeing something you believe in and watching it fail because the masses don't give a damn. Everyone deals with their hope being crushed in a different way. This comes from the fundamental misunderstanding of what people like me are about. First the "conspiracy" line has been thrown out enough to render it meaningless as several times things excused as "conspiracy theory" were absolutely true.
The accusation literally came from infowars. I don't know what you want at this point. Infowars is literally a conspiracy theory website, it only posts things which are conspiracy theories.
Not all evidence is equally valid. Infowars is not a sufficient rebuttal to the medical opinion of the doctor treating HRC.
Incidentally please respond to these fine pieces of journalism.
http://www.infowars.com/bernie-sanders-is-a-fraud/
http://www.infowars.com/bernie-sanders-the-socialist-dope/
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On August 23 2016 01:11 Dan HH wrote:
People are not waving away that she has difficulty climbing stairs. People are waving away the 2 completely baseless claims made by Gotunk and xDaunt that 1) her health is gravely deteriorating and 2) she clearly has a cognitive disorder.]
And where exactly did I make either claim?
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EPT
