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On August 10 2016 21:25 Sent. wrote:
I think this rise of populism in the Western world is just low information voters getting tired of establishment politicians promising changes without actually intending to change anything drastically. Things were fine 15 years ago but politicians needed slogans to win the elections and for some reason stuff like "Change we can believe in" and "Yes We Can" was super effective. Low information voters believed those slogans and now they're angry that their unrealistic expectations (like European style healthcare in the US) weren't fulfilled.
My point is that populists had a bad time in the last 15-25 years because establishment politicians "stole" and upgraded their methods. Now things are going back to normal where radical voters support real radicals instead of the mainstream left or right.
It doesn't even take "low information voters" to be disillusioned. Politicians routinely get away with promising to do one thing yet doing another, from immigration to Obamacare. Hell, most aren't unrealistic expectations (talking about Republican campaign promises in 2010/12/14) and also, to your point, political discourse that calls them unrealistic is another smack against the Establishment class.
One very easy to see breaking point is when both parties talk as if they're being pushed by voters right or left but act like the voters wanted the same policies as before. Then they vote out that bunch and get another batch that does the exact same thing. Finally, the loud talker saying, "Down with the system," starts making more sense, and the routine attacks against him fall on deaf ears.
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On August 10 2016 23:51 LegalLord wrote:
I think it's possible to complain about both at the same time. Quite a large number of people agree with the main issue of extrajudicial killings and police requiring more accountability. But at the same time many of the protests are really shitty.
That they need to protest at all is a failing of our society at such a fundamental level. Can one complain about both? Sure, but you're missing the point. Like saying a rape victim should have screamed for help longer before biting their attackers face. I mean he hadn't even gotten any of her cloths off yet...
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On August 10 2016 23:45 KwarK wrote:
The only possible explanation for this whole "what recovery?" mentality when the market tripled under Obama is people who somehow don't have a cut of the action. It's been a great 8 years.
Finance is useless for 80 % of the people on this planet.
And the growth it had in the last years is mostly due to the free money all big central banks gave to commercial banks. It has no direct impact on production and real economy. I'd say it's the symptom of the disease, which is the complete inability of our economy to distribute wealth.
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On August 11 2016 00:12 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2016 23:45 KwarK wrote:
The only possible explanation for this whole "what recovery?" mentality when the market tripled under Obama is people who somehow don't have a cut of the action. It's been a great 8 years. Finance is useless for 80 % of the people on this planet.
Honestly, sounds like finance’s problem, not the peoples.
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On August 10 2016 23:45 KwarK wrote:
The only possible explanation for this whole "what recovery?" mentality when the market tripled under Obama is people who somehow don't have a cut of the action. It's been a great 8 years.
Yeah, if you "played" with stocks and stuff.
But was there an actualy increase in wages and you know for "work" in general?
If not, then there was no true recovery, at least not for the people that needed the recovery the most.
Unemployment went down again, but thats only a fraction (an important one) of the whole Problem/ordeal.
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On August 11 2016 00:16 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2016 00:12 WhiteDog wrote:On August 10 2016 23:45 KwarK wrote:
The only possible explanation for this whole "what recovery?" mentality when the market tripled under Obama is people who somehow don't have a cut of the action. It's been a great 8 years. Finance is useless for 80 % of the people on this planet. Honestly, sounds like finance’s problem, not the peoples.
My president famously said, before his election, that "Finance is his true ennemy".
Unemployment went down again, but thats only a fraction (an important one) of the whole Problem/ordeal.
Yeah and in the US, the % of activity of the population is rather low. It's five to ten point lower than in Europe, so the low unemployment according to gov. statistics is partly misleading.
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On August 10 2016 23:45 KwarK wrote:
The only possible explanation for this whole "what recovery?" mentality when the market tripled under Obama is people who somehow don't have a cut of the action. It's been a great 8 years.
Yeah, fuck those 85% of the population who have been unable / too lazy / too stupid to benefit from it. The recovery has been great for the rich, so fuck the rest.
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United States42668 Posts
Police running a scenario roleplay session with the public to show how difficult it is for police officers to make on the spot calls accidentally executed one of the participants.
http://kdvr.com/2016/08/09/woman-accidentally-killed-during-shoot-dont-shoot-training-exercise-at-police-department/
At what point do we just take away their guns here until they can be taught to use them properly?
Like I know mistakes happen, one time when I was doing the British equivalent of ROTC I watched one of the girls in my platoon put live ammunition into a magazine with blue tape around it (our way of denoting blanks inside) because "well I know it's live so it's fine". But in that situation I informed the Colour Sergeant and she wasn't allowed live ammunition anymore. At what point do we make that decision for the police and issue them water pistols?
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United States42668 Posts
On August 11 2016 00:29 DickMcFanny wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2016 23:45 KwarK wrote:
The only possible explanation for this whole "what recovery?" mentality when the market tripled under Obama is people who somehow don't have a cut of the action. It's been a great 8 years. Yeah, fuck those 85% of the population who have been unable / too lazy / too stupid to benefit from it. The recovery has been great for the rich, so fuck the rest.
Even McDonalds offers 401k matching which, in case you're not aware, means that if you put money in then your employer will give you extra money to put in as a reward for putting money in. And that's for your minimum wage new hires. The market isn't some special thing that they reserve for 1%ers. Damn near every employer in the US has some of your compensation package reserved for investment accounts and the government will give you an extra 50 cents in tax credits for every dollar you put into one of those accounts if you are low income.
It's really not just something for the top 15%.
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This is another issue where the standards and practices of police departments need to be reviewed, but our government would rather just ignore the issue to avoid losing the police vote.
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On August 11 2016 00:38 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2016 00:29 DickMcFanny wrote:On August 10 2016 23:45 KwarK wrote:
The only possible explanation for this whole "what recovery?" mentality when the market tripled under Obama is people who somehow don't have a cut of the action. It's been a great 8 years. Yeah, fuck those 85% of the population who have been unable / too lazy / too stupid to benefit from it. The recovery has been great for the rich, so fuck the rest. Even McDonalds offers 401k matching which, in case you're not aware, means that if you put money in then your employer will give you extra money to put in as a reward for putting money in. And that's for your minimum wage new hires. The market isn't some special thing that they reserve for 1%ers. Damn near every employer in the US has some of your compensation package reserved for investment accounts and the government will give you an extra 50 cents in tax credits for every dollar you put into one of those accounts if you are low income. It's really not just something for the top 15%.
People living paycheck to paycheck can't necessarily afford to "lose" that money every month though.
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On August 11 2016 00:38 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2016 00:29 DickMcFanny wrote:On August 10 2016 23:45 KwarK wrote:
The only possible explanation for this whole "what recovery?" mentality when the market tripled under Obama is people who somehow don't have a cut of the action. It's been a great 8 years. Yeah, fuck those 85% of the population who have been unable / too lazy / too stupid to benefit from it. The recovery has been great for the rich, so fuck the rest. Even McDonalds offers 401k matching which, in case you're not aware, means that if you put money in then your employer will give you extra money to put in as a reward for putting money in. And that's for your minimum wage new hires. The market isn't some special thing that they reserve for 1%ers. Damn near every employer in the US has some of your compensation package reserved for investment accounts and the government will give you an extra 50 cents in tax credits for every dollar you put into one of those accounts if you are low income. It's really not just something for the top 15%.
Sidenote: If you worked at McD's and took advantage of their stock purchase program you would have gotten some great returns.
Lousy personal finance is one of the biggest problems in the US imo. But tax regs could also be far simpler.
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United States42668 Posts
On August 11 2016 00:49 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2016 00:38 KwarK wrote:On August 11 2016 00:29 DickMcFanny wrote:On August 10 2016 23:45 KwarK wrote:
The only possible explanation for this whole "what recovery?" mentality when the market tripled under Obama is people who somehow don't have a cut of the action. It's been a great 8 years. Yeah, fuck those 85% of the population who have been unable / too lazy / too stupid to benefit from it. The recovery has been great for the rich, so fuck the rest. Even McDonalds offers 401k matching which, in case you're not aware, means that if you put money in then your employer will give you extra money to put in as a reward for putting money in. And that's for your minimum wage new hires. The market isn't some special thing that they reserve for 1%ers. Damn near every employer in the US has some of your compensation package reserved for investment accounts and the government will give you an extra 50 cents in tax credits for every dollar you put into one of those accounts if you are low income. It's really not just something for the top 15%. Sidenote: If you worked at McD's and took advantage of their stock purchase program you would have gotten some great returns. Lousy personal finance is one of the biggest problems in the US imo. But tax regs could also be far simpler.
But the complications are from things like "if you put money into a 401k/IRA/403b/457 etc program then write how much here so we can mail you your free money (poor people only)".
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On August 11 2016 00:38 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2016 00:29 DickMcFanny wrote:On August 10 2016 23:45 KwarK wrote:
The only possible explanation for this whole "what recovery?" mentality when the market tripled under Obama is people who somehow don't have a cut of the action. It's been a great 8 years. Yeah, fuck those 85% of the population who have been unable / too lazy / too stupid to benefit from it. The recovery has been great for the rich, so fuck the rest. Even McDonalds offers 401k matching which, in case you're not aware, means that if you put money in then your employer will give you extra money to put in as a reward for putting money in. And that's for your minimum wage new hires. The market isn't some special thing that they reserve for 1%ers. Damn near every employer in the US has some of your compensation package reserved for investment accounts and the government will give you an extra 50 cents in tax credits for every dollar you put into one of those accounts if you are low income. It's really not just something for the top 15%.
As someone with a 401K, it is helpful. But also could be wiped out by a single tree falling on our roof. If course we have insurance, but those claims take months and roofs are things you need instantly. And not all 401Ks were created equally and finding out which one is really good is a challenge.
Things are not bad, but they could be a whole lot better.
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United States42668 Posts
On August 11 2016 00:53 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2016 00:38 KwarK wrote:On August 11 2016 00:29 DickMcFanny wrote:On August 10 2016 23:45 KwarK wrote:
The only possible explanation for this whole "what recovery?" mentality when the market tripled under Obama is people who somehow don't have a cut of the action. It's been a great 8 years. Yeah, fuck those 85% of the population who have been unable / too lazy / too stupid to benefit from it. The recovery has been great for the rich, so fuck the rest. Even McDonalds offers 401k matching which, in case you're not aware, means that if you put money in then your employer will give you extra money to put in as a reward for putting money in. And that's for your minimum wage new hires. The market isn't some special thing that they reserve for 1%ers. Damn near every employer in the US has some of your compensation package reserved for investment accounts and the government will give you an extra 50 cents in tax credits for every dollar you put into one of those accounts if you are low income. It's really not just something for the top 15%. As someone with a 401K, it is helpful. But also could be wiped out by a single tree falling on our roof. If course we have insurance, but those claims take months and roofs are things you need instantly. And not all 401Ks were created equally and finding out which one is really good is a challenge. Things are not bad, but they could be a whole lot better.
Life Pro Tip. Don't fucking cash out your 401k if a tree falls on your roof.
Like come on, you're an educated professional. Be smarter than that.
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On August 11 2016 00:57 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2016 00:53 Plansix wrote:On August 11 2016 00:38 KwarK wrote:On August 11 2016 00:29 DickMcFanny wrote:On August 10 2016 23:45 KwarK wrote:
The only possible explanation for this whole "what recovery?" mentality when the market tripled under Obama is people who somehow don't have a cut of the action. It's been a great 8 years. Yeah, fuck those 85% of the population who have been unable / too lazy / too stupid to benefit from it. The recovery has been great for the rich, so fuck the rest. Even McDonalds offers 401k matching which, in case you're not aware, means that if you put money in then your employer will give you extra money to put in as a reward for putting money in. And that's for your minimum wage new hires. The market isn't some special thing that they reserve for 1%ers. Damn near every employer in the US has some of your compensation package reserved for investment accounts and the government will give you an extra 50 cents in tax credits for every dollar you put into one of those accounts if you are low income. It's really not just something for the top 15%. As someone with a 401K, it is helpful. But also could be wiped out by a single tree falling on our roof. If course we have insurance, but those claims take months and roofs are things you need instantly. And not all 401Ks were created equally and finding out which one is really good is a challenge. Things are not bad, but they could be a whole lot better. Life Pro Tip. Don't fucking cash out your 401k if a tree falls on your roof. Like come on, you're an educated professional. Be smarter than that.
I was under the impression he was saying he'd do that because he had to. What other option would someone have?
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On August 11 2016 00:53 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2016 00:49 ticklishmusic wrote:On August 11 2016 00:38 KwarK wrote:On August 11 2016 00:29 DickMcFanny wrote:On August 10 2016 23:45 KwarK wrote:
The only possible explanation for this whole "what recovery?" mentality when the market tripled under Obama is people who somehow don't have a cut of the action. It's been a great 8 years. Yeah, fuck those 85% of the population who have been unable / too lazy / too stupid to benefit from it. The recovery has been great for the rich, so fuck the rest. Even McDonalds offers 401k matching which, in case you're not aware, means that if you put money in then your employer will give you extra money to put in as a reward for putting money in. And that's for your minimum wage new hires. The market isn't some special thing that they reserve for 1%ers. Damn near every employer in the US has some of your compensation package reserved for investment accounts and the government will give you an extra 50 cents in tax credits for every dollar you put into one of those accounts if you are low income. It's really not just something for the top 15%. Sidenote: If you worked at McD's and took advantage of their stock purchase program you would have gotten some great returns. Lousy personal finance is one of the biggest problems in the US imo. But tax regs could also be far simpler. But the complications are from things like "if you put money into a 401k/IRA/403b/457 etc program then write how much here so we can mail you your free money (poor people only)".
I think you overestimate the average American. 
On August 11 2016 01:00 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2016 00:57 KwarK wrote:On August 11 2016 00:53 Plansix wrote:On August 11 2016 00:38 KwarK wrote:On August 11 2016 00:29 DickMcFanny wrote:On August 10 2016 23:45 KwarK wrote:
The only possible explanation for this whole "what recovery?" mentality when the market tripled under Obama is people who somehow don't have a cut of the action. It's been a great 8 years. Yeah, fuck those 85% of the population who have been unable / too lazy / too stupid to benefit from it. The recovery has been great for the rich, so fuck the rest. Even McDonalds offers 401k matching which, in case you're not aware, means that if you put money in then your employer will give you extra money to put in as a reward for putting money in. And that's for your minimum wage new hires. The market isn't some special thing that they reserve for 1%ers. Damn near every employer in the US has some of your compensation package reserved for investment accounts and the government will give you an extra 50 cents in tax credits for every dollar you put into one of those accounts if you are low income. It's really not just something for the top 15%. As someone with a 401K, it is helpful. But also could be wiped out by a single tree falling on our roof. If course we have insurance, but those claims take months and roofs are things you need instantly. And not all 401Ks were created equally and finding out which one is really good is a challenge. Things are not bad, but they could be a whole lot better. Life Pro Tip. Don't fucking cash out your 401k if a tree falls on your roof. Like come on, you're an educated professional. Be smarter than that. I was under the impression he was saying he'd do that because he had to. What other option would someone have?
Homeowner's insurance. Also an emergency fund or friends/family you can fall back on.
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On August 11 2016 00:57 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2016 00:53 Plansix wrote:On August 11 2016 00:38 KwarK wrote:On August 11 2016 00:29 DickMcFanny wrote:On August 10 2016 23:45 KwarK wrote:
The only possible explanation for this whole "what recovery?" mentality when the market tripled under Obama is people who somehow don't have a cut of the action. It's been a great 8 years. Yeah, fuck those 85% of the population who have been unable / too lazy / too stupid to benefit from it. The recovery has been great for the rich, so fuck the rest. Even McDonalds offers 401k matching which, in case you're not aware, means that if you put money in then your employer will give you extra money to put in as a reward for putting money in. And that's for your minimum wage new hires. The market isn't some special thing that they reserve for 1%ers. Damn near every employer in the US has some of your compensation package reserved for investment accounts and the government will give you an extra 50 cents in tax credits for every dollar you put into one of those accounts if you are low income. It's really not just something for the top 15%. As someone with a 401K, it is helpful. But also could be wiped out by a single tree falling on our roof. If course we have insurance, but those claims take months and roofs are things you need instantly. And not all 401Ks were created equally and finding out which one is really good is a challenge. Things are not bad, but they could be a whole lot better. Life Pro Tip. Don't fucking cash out your 401k if a tree falls on your roof. Like come on, you're an educated professional. Be smarter than that.
Kwark, remember that talk we had about your tone when you respond to some stuff? Pro-tip, avoid it.
And I have been there. We had our well pump die(10K), medical expenses(30+K) and a car implode (5K) in the span of 2 months. We were considering putting off the medical expenses to avoid having to crush our saving, but then ACA changed some stuff and the entire expenses were covered.
You don’t really know me, so do call me an idiot when I’m considering crushing my 401K or begging relatives for loans.
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I live in NYC, I work in engineering, and I make a decent salary - so maybe I'm biased with all 3 points, but all I see in my line of work and in my city is construction, lots of construction, and more construction. And tons of businesses going into things being constructed.
I wouldn't say the top percent is the only people to get anything out of the last 8 years, but as someone who almost couldn't get a job in 2008 because of that collapse, and seeing that past through the lens of my life now, I think we're quite a lot better off...
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United States42668 Posts
On August 11 2016 01:00 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2016 00:57 KwarK wrote:On August 11 2016 00:53 Plansix wrote:On August 11 2016 00:38 KwarK wrote:On August 11 2016 00:29 DickMcFanny wrote:On August 10 2016 23:45 KwarK wrote:
The only possible explanation for this whole "what recovery?" mentality when the market tripled under Obama is people who somehow don't have a cut of the action. It's been a great 8 years. Yeah, fuck those 85% of the population who have been unable / too lazy / too stupid to benefit from it. The recovery has been great for the rich, so fuck the rest. Even McDonalds offers 401k matching which, in case you're not aware, means that if you put money in then your employer will give you extra money to put in as a reward for putting money in. And that's for your minimum wage new hires. The market isn't some special thing that they reserve for 1%ers. Damn near every employer in the US has some of your compensation package reserved for investment accounts and the government will give you an extra 50 cents in tax credits for every dollar you put into one of those accounts if you are low income. It's really not just something for the top 15%. As someone with a 401K, it is helpful. But also could be wiped out by a single tree falling on our roof. If course we have insurance, but those claims take months and roofs are things you need instantly. And not all 401Ks were created equally and finding out which one is really good is a challenge. Things are not bad, but they could be a whole lot better. Life Pro Tip. Don't fucking cash out your 401k if a tree falls on your roof. Like come on, you're an educated professional. Be smarter than that. I was under the impression he was saying he'd do that because he had to. What other option would someone have?
You put a bucket on the floor under the hole in the roof in that room and you wait. You already spent the 401k money on the 401k because you needed it. And you spent it on a thing that is not really refundable due to the time line and the tax penalties. The only thing you spend a 401k on is a health complication that will cause you to die before you can use it if you don't.
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EPT
